2700HGV - Why did I bother?

[Simon]

Well, after waiting nearly 2 weeks, my 2700 has finally arrived, and I think it's duff.  Plugged it in and got a red power light, which started flickering after a while, then started flashing from red to green.  After another short while, it started flashing green on it's own, apart from about once every minute, when the red light flashed again.  Tried reset button, and nothing happens.  Won't connect to PC via Ethernet (Network cable unplugged), so there seems to be little I can do with it.      Any suggestions, before I drop a paving slab on it?

[ducky22]

Red power light hmm...

Usually means they're screwed.

Does it give out a DHCP address?

Try specifying your IP details manually ie. 192.168.1.1, 255.255.255.0 and load up http://192.168.1.254/recover.html or recovery.html or it might be htm - I can't quite remember. This worked for me a while ago. You'll also need a copy of the proper firmware for your model.

[ducky22]

I didn't read about the network cable unplugged. Sorry. Doing a few things at once :-P.

Have you tried via USB?

That page might not work on your version of the 2wire actually. I keep forgetting everyone here has the 2700 and not the 1800. You can also try the normal 'upgrade' firmware link which is /tech/upgrade.html.

If it loads, great. But make sure you use the correct firmware otherwise you're completely toast then.

[Simon]

I haven't tried with USB, but I will do in a bit.

[Sebby]

Simon, it sounds like it's faulty to me. It should initially boot with a flashing red light, then change to solid green, IIRC. Refresh my memory; where did you get it from?

[Simon]

It was a private seller on eBay, Seb, but one who will shortly be receiving very negative feedback, given that it took them nearly two weeks to send the bloody thing, and they have failed to answer any of my three emails.

It's now flashing intermittently red and green.  I am correct, that I should just be able to swap the ethernet cable from the existing router, and it should connect to the PC, yes?

[Sebby]

You are correct; the ethernet cable won't make any difference.

Is it one of the BT-branded ones?

[Simon]

The router?  Yes.  What's the button with the keyhole supposed to do?

[Sebby]

Mine doesn't have that (it's a generic 2Wire version) but I think what you're talking about might be the wireless access switch, so nothing to do with the problem here.

I'm wondering if re-flashing the firmware might help. I'm having a look now to see if there's some kind of recovery tool.

[Den]

It's there to let invited guests use you wireless router and bypass security.

[Sebby]

Simon, is it the single or dual SSID version?

[Simon]

Oh OK, thanks, Den.  Can't see there's much chance of that happening!

Seb, tried with USB - nothing.  Not even a ding dong.    I think it's the single - it only has one SSID on the label on the underneath.

[Sebby]

Actually, I've just noticed that you need to be able to get into the web interface to flash the firmware like I was going to suggest. I'll keep looking.

[Simon]

Yes, that's going to be the obstacle whatever we try, isn't it?

[Sebby]

I was thinking that there may be a firmware recovery tool, like there is for the BT Home Hub, but then I realised that there's only one for that because it's actually a SpeedTouch in disguise, and that's the way firmware is installed on SpeedTouch routers.

I think we may be out of luck.

If you paid with PayPal, it's worth raising a dispute. I'm sure the money isn't your only concern - you were probably looking forward to testing it out - but if you can get a refund (which is more likely if you raise a dispute) you can get yourself another one.

[Simon]

It's strange that when I power cycle it, the red light then comes on solidly for a time, then starts to blink, then it goes to intermittent green / red.  Seems almost like something isn't 'warming up' properly, or perhaps someone put the wrong firmware in and fried it?  Possibly why it was so cheap, but they didn't say it was faulty in the listing.

[Sebby]

It's certainly possible, Simon, though unless we can find a way to flash it how it is, we'll never know.

I guess it could also be the power supply.

[Simon]

If you paid with PayPal, it's worth raising a dispute. I'm sure the money isn't your only concern - you were probably looking forward to testing it out - but if you can get a refund (which is more likely if you raise a dispute) you can get yourself another one.

You're right, Seb, the money isn't the point, but equally, I don't see why they should get away with stitching me up, so I will send them one final email, informing them that I am about to raise an immediate dispute with PayPal.  Do you happen to know if I am obliged to return the faulty item?  If not, I would happily donate it to someone who wants to take it to bits, for nothing more than postage costs.

It's certainly possible, Simon, though unless we can find a way to flash it how it is, we'll never know.

I guess it could also be the power supply.

I did think about the power supply, but unfortunately, I haven't got another one with the right 'end' to try.  I am bidding on a couple of other 2700s, so we'll see what comes of that.  These are newer ones though, so I don't think I would be able to use the 'special' firmware would I?

[kinmel]

It's strange that when I power cycle it, the red light then comes on solidly for a time, then starts to blink, then it goes to intermittent green / red.  Seems almost like something isn't 'warming up' properly, or perhaps someone put the wrong firmware in and fried it?  Possibly why it was so cheap, but they didn't say it was faulty in the listing.

Exactly the same thing happened to me with one from a seller in Glasgow, who refunded my payment.

2Wire Tech Support told me that the router was failing to POST and keeps re-cycling. Probably due to damage in transit and the unit would need to be returned to them for repair.

They sent me the following table which describes how to interpret the indicator lights:-

Power Light                                     Operating State

OFF                                               The gateway is not getting power.
Blinking green (slow)                       The gateway is undergoing POST (power-on self test).
Solid green                                     Power is on.
Blinking orange                               The gateway is undergoing a software upgrade.
Solid red System error.                    Contact Technical Support.

Ethernet, Wireless, or USB Light        Operating State

OFF                                               The gateway is powered off or booting up.
Solid green                                     Device(s) connected via Ethernet, wireless, or USB.
Flickering green                               Data traffic is coming into or going out from the network.

[Sebby]

You're right, Seb, the money isn't the point, but equally, I don't see why they should get away with stitching me up, so I will send them one final email, informing them that I am about to raise an immediate dispute with PayPal.  Do you happen to know if I am obliged to return the faulty item?  If not, I would happily donate it to someone who wants to take it to bits, for nothing more than postage costs.

I don't think you're obliged as such, but the seller might ask you to send it back for a refund, which would reasonable (even though he's not exactly been a great seller).

I did think about the power supply, but unfortunately, I haven't got another one with the right 'end' to try.  I am bidding on a couple of other 2700s, so we'll see what comes of that.  These are newer ones though, so I don't think I would be able to use the 'special' firmware would I?

There is SBC firmware available for the single SSID BT model (as I believe it's the same hardware as Rik and I have), but I don't believe there's unlocked firmware for the dual SSID models, so you have to do DNS poisoning.

[kinmel]

Do you happen to know if I am obliged to return the faulty item?

Paypal's dispute proceedure requires you to return the item to the seller at your own cost, however many sellers tell you to throw it away.

Paypal T&Cs

13.7 Claims Procedures. If you escalate a Dispute into a Claim, we will gather information from you and the seller and determine eligibility for reimbursement under the Buyer Protection Programs in accordance with the terms of this Agreement. Here are some important things to remember about the Claim process:

   1.

      If a buyer files a Claim asserting receipt of a Significantly Not as Described item, we will generally require the buyer to return the item to the seller at the buyer's expense and to provide proof of return delivery. In some circumstances, we may require the buyer to send the item to us or to a third party specified by us, to obtain documentation from a qualified third party substantiating the Claim, or to provide evidence that the item has been destroyed. In some instances, we may ask a buyer to support a Claim by filing and supplying a copy of a police report.
 

[Simon]

Christ, it hardly seems worth the trouble for thirteen quid, but I've initiated the dispute now, so we'll see what happens.  I suspect he won't even bother to respond, as he hasn't done so far.

There is SBC firmware available for the single SSID BT model (as I believe it's the same hardware as Rik and I have), but I don't believe there's unlocked firmware for the dual SSID models, so you have to do DNS poisoning.

Hmm... so really, it would be better finding an older model, but it's a double edged sword, as you obviously run more risk then, of getting a dodgy one, like mine.  Is DNS poisoning something that 'sticks' once it's done, or does it keep having to be maintained?  One thing I don't want with one of these, is a lot of fiddling about, in which case, I would rather keep my Netgear.

[Sebby]

Christ, it hardly seems worth the trouble for thirteen quid, but I've initiated the dispute now, so we'll see what happens.  I suspect he won't even bother to respond, as he hasn't done so far.

It's worth a try.

Hmm... so really, it would be better finding an older model, but it's a double edged sword, as you obviously run more risk then, of getting a dodgy one, like mine.  Is DNS poisoning something that 'sticks' once it's done, or does it keep having to be maintained?  One thing I don't want with one of these, is a lot of fiddling about, in which case, I would rather keep my Netgear.

I believe that once the DNS poisoning is in place, you don't have to do anything. A lot of people have bought the dual SSID model and they seem fine. Plus, they're going to be new, so - as you say - there's less chance of faulty units.

[Simon]

I have a few I have my eye on, so I'll keep you posted.  Thanks for the advice, Seb, and Kinmel.     

[Sebby]

Pleasure. Thanks for the karma.

[kinmel]

Hmm... so really, it would be better finding an older model,

The older model gives you higher, but illegal, wireless outputs, while the dual SSID model does not allow you to change the wireless power.

Setting up the new model dual SSID 2700HGV is quicker and safer than modding an old one with the SBC software.

I recommend that you buy an brand new one that has not been modded at all.

[Simon]

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. 

[Sebby]

Setting up the new model dual SSID 2700HGV is quicker and safer than modding an old one with the SBC software.

Absolutely. Messing around with firmware is always a risk.

At the end of the day, I think it comes down to the risk you want to take. You can find 2700s with SBC firmware on eBay, but they're probably going to be older, and we've seen a number that have been faulty. On the other hand, I haven't heard of problems with the dual SSID ones.

Personally, I prefer unbranded firmware that doesn't require workarounds that - let's face it - could one day be patched by BT. The BT Business Hub updates its firmware automatically, and although no updates have messed anything up so far, that doesn't mean they won't in future.

[psp83]

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. 

Do you need a 2700 dual ssid?

I have one here doing nothing, it didnt like my line so gone back to my netgear.

Heres a pic with the router setup and working:-

[Simon]

You have a PM, Paul. 

[psp83]

I do 

Edit. I do now, will go read it 

[psp83]

Replied 

[Simon]

Me too! 

[Rik]

From memory, and contrary to what Kinmel has been told, I am sure my router power LED flashed green/red during POST, then went to solid green, SBC firmware.

[Simon]

This was flashing green / red for over an hour in total, Rik, as I left it running to see what happened, and I should still have been able to connect it via Ethernet, shouldn't I?  Mind you, it wasn't connected to the phone line at the time, as I didn't see the point in doing so, if I couldn't access it anyway.  Even swapping routers the once made the Netgear drop sync, so I didn't want to keep messing about with it.

[Rik]

You won't be able to access the web interface of the router, via ethernet, wireless or USB until it has finished POST, about two minutes IIRC.

After that, it took maybe another minute to sync and establish a PPP session. Compared to a Netgear, these things are slow to boot - if you look at the detailed log, when you cam, you'll get an idea why.

[Simon]

Well, I think it was fairly clear that this wasn't going to finish POST.  After about 10 minutes of flickering red light, I did hit the reset button for about 10 seconds, and then the green light started flashing, but it never got any further than that.

[Rik]

Is that the 'paper clip' reset button, Simon?

[Simon]

Indeed.  But a ball point works just as well.    I suppose you're going to tell me I broke it myself now! 

[Rik]

In that case, I wouldn't waste any more time on it.

[kinmel]

From memory, and contrary to what Kinmel has been told, I am sure my router power LED flashed green/red during POST, then went to solid green, SBC firmware.

Yes my unmodded 2700 does that too whilst booting, the faulty ones give all sorts of light sequences endlessly. If it does go to a steady state then it's just the dreaded red light.

[Inactive]

Simon, do you have a poor line?..'cos if you don't, I wouldn't even bother with a 2700, the working one that I borrowed from next door did nothing for my good line.

[Simon]

Simon, do you have a poor line?..'cos if you don't, I wouldn't even bother with a 2700, the working one that I borrowed from next door did nothing for my good line.

It's just curiosity, In, and it would also be useful for me to learn how to use one, so that hopefully I might be able to help someone else one day, given that we seem to have a '2700s Anonymous' club gathering on here! 

[Rik]

Perhaps we should start a national forum for 2700 users? We could have annual meets, where people could show off the custom paint jobs and the over-clocked crystals.

[Simon]

... and ones that don't work! 

[Rik]

Oh, indeed, we'd have a DD corner.

[kinmel]

could show off the custom paint jobs

can I be a Judge ? go on, Can I ? Can I ?

[Rik]

Yes, my son. 

[psp83]

... and ones that don't work! 

Hope my one works fine for you. Let me know when you get it please.

[Simon]

Will do, Paul. 

[Den]

Just reached 36days without resyncing is this a record for even a 2700HGV? 

[Glenn]

I'm on 37 days at the moment, but I have been past 45 before I repowered the router.


Link Retrains:  0  0  0  0:00:00
DSL Training Errors:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Training Timeouts:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Framing Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Signal Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Power Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Loss of Margin Failures:  0  0  0  0:00:00
Cumulative Seconds w/Errors:  32426  296  12  0:02:11
Cumulative Sec. w/Severe Errors:  254  11  0  0:15:07
Corrected Blocks:  4536065  39135  382  0:00:04
Uncorrectable Blocks:  54889  799  17  0:02:11
DSL Unavailable Seconds:  44  0  0  37 days 8:09:08

[Lance]

I seem to recall ReD hitting nearly 60 days, but that could be my memory failing me!

[Glenn]

I think you are right Lance

[Lance]

 

[Inactive]

... and ones that don't work! 

I have 3 sitting here to start with... 

Simon I guess my interest in one was pure curiosity, however having borrowed one that actually worked, I have to be blunt and say I was not overly impressed.

As you know, the item is quite large, it has no power off switch at the back and it isn't exactly the most user friendly of routers that I have used.

I prefer my Zyxel that just sits quietly doing the job.

[Sebby]

The 2700 isn't for everyone, and even more so if you have a good line. For us users with average lines, the 2700 is great, but I can see why some wouldn't be impressed.

[Simon]

I have no expectations, good or bad, about the 2700, but until I try one, I'll never know.  If it's cr*p, I can just in back to the Netgear.  Simple! 

[Simon]

Right, well I now have a 2Wire up and running.  Took a while to work out what I was doing, but I think I've got there.  I lost a bit of sync by swapping routers a couple of times, but hopefully it will pick up again.

Paul, not sure if this is your one, as two arrived today.  Was yours bubble wrapped with all the cables, or with polystyrene?

[Rik]

What are you line stats looking like, Simon?

[Sebby]

I lost a bit of sync by swapping routers a couple of times, but hopefully it will pick up again.

You shouldn't lose sync by swapping routers, unless the dreaded target SNRM has been pushed up (we'll wait for the stats!). It could just be because it's night, and there is more noise around at night, so you'd expect to sync a bit lower to compensate.

[Simon]

What are you line stats looking like, Simon?

Where do I find them?

[Simon]

Oh, is this what you need?

DSL Line (Wire Pair):     Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol:    G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate:    3808 kbps
Upstream Rate:    448 kbps
Channel:    Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:    15.0 dB (Downstream) 18.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:    34.7 dB (Downstream) 18.5 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power:    19.8 dBm (Downstream) 12.1 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information:    Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {TSTC} Specific: {0x00}
PVC Info:    0/38

[Rik]

What Sebby said, Simon, unless you did it 10 times or so. I'm currently synching at 3168 with a NM of 9db. In the morning, that NM will rise to 11db because my last re-sync was at night.

Stats are at:

http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=J42

[Rik]

Those are they. Your noise margin has been pushed up to 15db. You're going to need to maintain stable sync for a couple of weeks, then it will reduce by 3db, repeat the process etc. You ought to sync close to 8128.

[Sebby]

Yep, your target SNRM has been pushed up to 15dB (or perhaps it was already like this; it's difficult to say). I suspect you'd be able to get almost, or even full sync if this were at its default value of 6dB.

I'm sure you know about the 14 day periods to get a 3dB drop in target SNRM from reading all the threads on the subject, so I'd say just try and leave it sync'd for at least 14 days at a time and hopefully you'll eventually get back down to 6dB, which should give you much better sync.

(Or you could ask IDNet to see if they can get it reset to 6dB straight away!)

[psp83]

Paul, not sure if this is your one, as two arrived today.  Was yours bubble wrapped with all the cables, or with polystyrene?

The one i sent you had loads off bubble wrap and in a brown box with "fragile" on it.

[Simon]

Yup, this is the one then.   

[psp83]

(Or you could ask IDNet to see if they can get it reset to 6dB straight away!)

They wouldn't do that for me! i'm waiting for my SNR to drop aswell, currently its stuck at 12

[Sebby]

It's a case-by-case thing, Paul. I managed to get it done but I believe that was because there had been some work on my exchange. Still, at least yours is dropping, so you'll get there.

[psp83]

Yup, this is the one then.   

glad its working for you, Just hope it likes your line more than it did mine 

[Simon]

It hasn't chucked me off yet, but didn't it work for you for a while, Paul?

[psp83]

It hasn't chucked me off yet, but didn't it work for you for a while, Paul?

It worked for 2wks, then early on a saturday morning 1am - 8am my line went nuts, Me, IDnet or BT don't know what caused this. IDnet asked me to reconnect the netgear (as it was pre configed by them so better for tests) so i did and to be honest, I was going to change back as it was all setup for me access my computers from work, plus i only wanted to test a 2wire..

Bare in mind, my line has done this before with the netgear i'm using, So i doubt it was caused by the 2wire, Just that everytime BT comes back saying nothing is wrong and then my line is stable for a few months 

[Sebby]

I know some have had bad experiences, but I can honestly say this is the greatest router I've ever had, and it cost me under a tenner.

I'm sure you'll get on just fine, Simon.

[psp83]

I think Simon holds the record for lowest cost 2wire now 

[Sebby]

Free doesn't count, Paul. I still hold that record.

[psp83]

haha, but Simon didnt get it for free 

[Sebby]

Even if he paid postage, the item itself still had no cost. Don't try it.

[psp83]

lol, Well i did over charge slightly for postage, so the router cost Simon about 3p 

[Inactive]

I have 3 for £16.01 including P+P, none of them work of course.. 

[Rik]

Except as door stops.

[Sebby]

They're certainly sturdy enough to be door stops.

[Inactive]

They're certainly sturdy enough to be door stops.

And big enough .. 

[psp83]

why are they so big for anyways 

[Rik]

Cool running?

[Inactive]

why are they so big for anyways 

To keep the door from blowing closed in high winds..