Upgrading to NTE5

[godedd]

Hi all, I have just migrated to IDnet yesterday and am so far very happy.  Was previously with Namesco so haven't had the dire experience of some ISP's like others here.

These are my current line stats with my DG834GT-

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7360 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 40.0 db 25.0 db
Noise Margin 6.4 db 23.0 db

I have asked for interleaving to be turned off to see how I do.  But i was thinking about my master socket.... It's an old non NTE5 socket so if I bought one of these and one of these could i wire a tiny extension from my non NTE5 (wires 2 & 5) to terminals A & B on the adsl adaptor?

Or could i just plug in the end of an extension cable into the non NTE5 and chop off the other end to wire it into the Filter? Hope you get my drift... It would save tampering with the non NTE5 to get the wires to the NTE5.

[Ann]

Well you've lost me but the others will be along soon and sort things out.  Have a welcome karma while you're waiting. 

[Simon]

Hi godedd, and 

I'm with Ann, I'm afraid, but one of the techies will be around soon. 

[Lance]

Welcome to the forum, godedd!

I'm not sure, but I think the master socket is legally BT's so you can't just go and change the wires and sockets about (although they would never know  ).

I think the best thing you can do is purchase the two items, and replace the existing master socket. Using a cable between old and new would have the same benefit as using a normal filter, so there is no point to using this method.

Rik is our wiring guru, and will be about either late tonight or tomorrow, so may be able to help more 

[Sebby]

Welcome!

I have asked for interleaving to be turned off to see how I do.  But i was thinking about my master socket.... It's an old non NTE5 socket so if I bought one of these and one of these could i wire a tiny extension from my non NTE5 (wires 2 & 5) to terminals A & B on the adsl adaptor?

As far as fitting an NTE5 goes, you're not allowed as it's BT's property. However, I know people have had success at getting one fitted for free by telling BT they want to fit extension wiring and can't do it at present, so that's worth a try!

IIRC, terminals A and B on the XTE-2005 are to wire an ADSL only extension; the reason for doing this is so the ADSL signal is still terminated and filtered at the earliest point in the house. This won't benefit you given your current setup. If you wired an extension to an NTE5 then installed a XTE-2005 on that, it's still going to suffer the same noise pickup as the rest of the extensions in the house, being terminated by the XTE-2005 too late for the situation to be any different.

Or could i just plug in the end of an extension cable into the non NTE5 and chop off the other end to wire it into the Filter? Hope you get my drift... It would save tampering with the non NTE5 to get the wires to the NTE5.

Again, this wouldn't be beneficial for the same reason as above. A common misconception is that plugging into the front of the master socket bypasses extension wiring. In fact, it's the same as plugging into an extension socket. It's a strange idea to accept, I admit, but that is why filtered faceplates exist. The reason an NTE5 master socket and filtered faceplate helps is because the signal is terminated and filtered as the line comes into your property, so the ADSL signal is as "clean" as it can be, and just telephone signal is sent to the extension wiring.

So, this is how I see your current situation. You can try and get BT to fit an NTE5 for free; if not for free, they will do it for a charge. Alternatively, remove the ring wire from every socket in the house (usually orange, and always in terminal 3) and this should reduce noise pickup considerably, hopefully yielding you higher sync. The ring wire is not needed by modern telephones, and is often the major cause of noise pickup in extension wiring.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if anything needs clarification!

[godedd]

I'm with you sebby! Thanks for the guidance. I appreciate that I will probably get shot if I try and replace the master but this is not my intention.  I was looking at this as a guide. Literally having the NTE5 right next to the old master.  I wouldn't be plugging in anything to the old box.

So I believe that all i would be doing is extending wires 2 & 5 to go straight into the NTE5 from the old master.  Correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am!!) but wouldnt this just be the same as replacing the old master to NTE5? Having the unfiltered cable from the outside connected to the XTE2005 via the old socket?

The more I think about it the more confused i get! My router is already right next to the master so would be plugged into the ADSL plug of the faceplate, and my phone and upstairs extension would be plugged into the Phone plug via a doubler?

Am i being thick?

[Rik]

What Sebby is saying, I think, is that your current extensions are hard-wired to your current master. Unless you move them to the new NTE5 (and there may not be enough cable to do so) then you will gain little or nothing.

[Sebby]

Exactly, Rik. I guess you could remove existing extension wiring from the current master socket and attach this to the NTE5. Then, go from the current master socket, like you were wiring an extension, to the back of the NTE5 (like this is the line coming in). I'm not sure what the results would be like, but also it's a fairly messy solution. I'd try and get BT to fit a NTE5 for free, or failing that removing the ring wire should be a good solution.

[Rik]

Just telling BT you need to wire some extensions and you haven't got anything to wire them to sometimes works...

[Sebby]

Yep, I mentioned that in my first reply as I recalled some had been successful.

[Rik]

Sorry, Seb, I skimmed most of the thread. 

[Sebby]

That's understandable; I do tend to have lots to say on these sorts of problems.

[godedd]

I don't have any hard wired extensions. I  only have an extension cable ending with a phone plug and a phone plugged into a filter dongle via a doubler with router into ADSL.  Clear as mud eh!

Have tried to do a diagram via paint!

Would i just phone BT customer services to ask for a replacement?

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[Rik]

That's understandable; I do tend to have lots to say on these sorts of problems.

I just had lots to read.

[Rik]

Would i just phone BT customer services to ask for a replacement?

Are your extension cables to the phones flat or round? TBH, I'm not sure on your current setup that there's a lot of benefit in moving to an NTE5, since your master socket is the equivalent of a test socket.

[godedd]

Are your extension cables to the phones flat or round? TBH, I'm not sure on your current setup that there's a lot of benefit in moving to an NTE5, since your master socket is the equivalent of a test socket.

They are flat.  Am i right in thinking that round is better?  If i don't go the nte5 way, should I invest in a decent dongle filter as the one i'm using now was one supplied with my router!

[Sebby]

I don't have any hard wired extensions. I  only have an extension cable ending with a phone plug and a phone plugged into a filter dongle via a doubler with router into ADSL.  Clear as mud eh!

I'm sorry, I didn't realise you had no hard-wired extensions. In that case, it's even easier. If the filter is the first thing plugged into the master socket, and you have no hard-wired extensions, a NTE5 isn't going to make any difference. The ADSL signal is already being terminated and filtered at the earliest point, and there is no extension wiring to pickup noise and interfere.

A new microfilter might help; the ADSL Nation XF-1e are supposed to be the best "soap on a rope" type. A new router may also help; the 2Wire 2700HG (lots of threads about this model) or SpeedTouch 585v6 are highly regarded and tend to offer good improvements. Also, a better quality (twisted pair) cable from the master socket to your router may help.

Now that we can see that your wiring isn't causing trouble, can you post your line stats? This may help us to see what's going on and possibly make more suggestions. If you're not sure how to get this, take a look here.

They are flat.  Am i right in thinking that round is better?  If i don't go the nte5 way, should I invest in a decent dongle filter as the one i'm using now was one supplied with my router!

It doesn't make any difference in your case as it is only a telephone extension. If you were using an extension lead from the master socket to somewhere else in your property then filtering it for ADSL, then it would potentially be a problem as the flat cables are not high-quality and tend to pick up noise.

See above regarding the filter.

[Rik]

They are flat.  Am i right in thinking that round is better?  If i don't go the nte5 way, should I invest in a decent dongle filter as the one i'm using now was one supplied with my router!

Flat is bad. Standard phone wire (to CW1308 spec) uses twisted pairs to cancel out noise. Flat cables do not, and so pick up all the noise there is to be had; MW radio, electrical noise etc, and they feed that back into the circuit. Even though they are on the filtered side of the connection, replacing them is likely to prove advantageous.

As Sebby says, something like an ADSL Nation xf-1e could be a good investment.

[godedd]

An XF-1e it is I think!

My current stats are -

ADSL Link     Downstream     Upstream
Connection Speed    7360 kbps    448 kbps
Line Attenuation    40.0 db    25.0 db
Noise Margin    6.6 db    23.0 db

I have synched at 7616 in the past.  Requested interleaving off yesterday so when should I see that kick in as it was actioned at 10pm 3/2/08?

Have I maxed out the best from my line already as I appreciate that LA of 40db isn't great!

[Sebby]

You've got great stats! I certainly wouldn't worry about trying to improve things. What router do you have at present, out of interest?

I'm not sure how long it takes for interleaving requests to be actioned.

[Rik]

7360 is not bad for 40db attenuation, but I've also seen better. Much of the sync speed depends on the characteristics of the line, eg whether it's got thin or thick copper. Interleaving changes can be anything from a few minutes to three days, depending on BT. If you can coax the extra bit of sync speed, you'll step up a profile, ie about 400k of throughput.

[godedd]

Think i'll get an xf-1e and stick with my DG834GT. Worryingly though...



I know i'm still in my test period.  Got the speedtester to show profile of 6500k but wouldn't get to show me my throughput

I think both of you deserve some  for your patience, knowledge and general helpfulness!

[godedd]

Here is the BT Speedtest result...

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  7520 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 844 kbps


WOW!

[Rik]

Profile is right for sync speed. Thoughput...

Do you know if your exchange is red? Check here: http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

If not, try and get another BT test or two, then contact support and ask them to test your line.

[Sebby]

The throughput figure is very worrying. Try again tomorrow and if you get the same results, give IDNet a call. You should be getting significantly more than that. Otherwise, the figures look good.

[godedd]

Exchange is all green.  Will try another test tomorrow then contact support. Night all.

[Sebby]

Okay, so something strange is going on, unless it's just a little hiccup. Let us know what happens tomorrow, and don't hesitate to contact IDNet; they're very helpful.

I may do the same and call it a night!

[godedd]

Still not much better -

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  7936 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2346 kbps

Have submitted a ticket to falconnet.

[Rik]

Have submitted a ticket to falconnet.

?

I thought you were with IDNet?

[godedd]

I am via falconnet which is an idnet reseller-

www.falconnet.co.uk

[Rik]

AAMOI, what made you go with them as you're paying the same as you would as an IDNet 'direct' customer? (Feel free not to answer, I'm just curious. )

[madasahatter]

Don't know why, I always though IDNet were like Kelloggs's - if it doesn't say IDNet on the box, then it isn't IDNet IN the box.

Not very often I'm right, but I was obviously wrong again 

[Rik]

I know of two re-sellers now, the other being Vivaciti. I'm not sure what the benefits are though.

[godedd]

AAMOI???

Heard good reviews about their customer service and support (not that I doubt IDnet's).  A friend also referred me so we each got a bit of a brucie bonus!  

[Rik]

AAMOI - as a matter of interest

Saves the old fingers a bit of typing.

Do you get the whole IDNet package, eg the umlimited email addresses - the Falconnet site seemed to imply you only got one.

[madasahatter]

I know of two re-sellers now, the other being Vivaciti. I'm not sure what the benefits are though.

Well I never knew that - and I was looking at Vivaciti as an alternative a while ago. Strange world.

Is it widely publicised? All the entanet resellers pretty much state that they are quite clearly - can't remember seeing it anywhere on the Vivaciti site.....

[godedd]

I can login to the customer control panel on the idnet site with my login.  Get full access to the CP for unlimited e-mail, bandwidth stats etc.

[Rik]

Thanks, useful to know.

[Sebby]

I can only see the point being for IDNet to get more customers, but as far as the customer is concerned, I see no benefit.

[Lance]

I agree Sebby. I much prefer to deal direct rather than through a middle man. I imagine that IDNet themselves prefer it direct though, as they won't have to pay a 'finders fee' or whatever benefit to the reseller. I guess that because IDNet used to be smaller, it was a good way of boosting business.

[Inactive]

I guess it is because Enta Resellers are actually losing business by using Enta due to speed issues, so are switching to IDNet because of this.

[Lance]

That would be a sensible thing for them to do, In. You could well be right!

[Rik]

It can't be a coincidence that we are suddenly hearing of IDNet resellers and both are also Enta resellers, I feel.

[Inactive]

Indeed Rik, but why anyone would use a reseller to get IDNet service at extra cost than using IDNet directly baffles belief.

[Rik]

From what I could see, In, the package prices are the same as we pay - so IDNet are, effectively paying the resellers, but I'm not sure what they get in return.

[Inactive]

Fair enough Rik, but I would still prefer to deal directly with the supplier.

On the other hand, perhaps one of us should start up as an IDNet Reseller and pass on the discount..

[Rik]

I'm all for direct dealing as well, In. It seems to me that resellers are just taking profit from IDNet, particularly if customers can go straight to IDNet support.

Perhaps the forum should become a reseller! 

[Inactive]

I wonder, do these resellers have their own forums?

If not, should we be giving their customers help on here?, this is after all IDNetters.

[Rik]

Falconnet appear to have, In. Ultimately, though, the forum is available to anyone, customer or not.