phones and sync speeds

[krysia]

On Monday, on one of my extensions, I replaced my BT Decor 1200 telephone with a Binatone Concept 100.  With the former, I was sync-ing in the high 5000s during the day and in the low 5000s during the evening.  With the latter, I still have the same high daytime sync speed, but I'm having more frequent evening resyncs and the speed is dropping to the high 4000s.  Should I assume the phone is causing more noise on my line, even though this evening I haven't even used it?

[Rik]

It could be putting more noise on the line, Krysia, what happens if you unplug it? It may be worth trying a different filter for that phone.

[krysia]

I've got ADSL Nation xf-1e filters on all my extensions, so I think the only thing to do is experiment and see if it's the phone.  Never occurred to me different phones might have different effects on noise!

[Sebby]

It could be the phone. Even though you've got what are confused to be the best microfilters, one could still be faulty, so it's worth trying another one. The best test would be to swap phones and see if the problem goes away.

It could, of course, merely be coincidence (more noise around, for some reason). See how the experiment goes, and if it doesn't cure it, we can help you look into this a bit more.

[Lance]

It could be the phone/base unit itself gives off more noise, regardless of the fact it's plugged into the telephone socket. Some DECT phones can cause problems like this.

[krysia]

This new phone has to be plugged into an electric socket to make everything work, so I figured it was probably the cause (unless, as Sebby says, it might have been a coincidence).  But this morning, I thought I'd experiment and unplug one of the bedroom extensions, as the new phone is one of main ones I use.  I don't want to jinx things, but so far, so good:  I synced at the usual 5728 this morning, and have only resynced once since, going down to 5568 around 6 pm.  I usually dropped much more, about 400, even before putting in the new phone, so unplugging an extension I don't need to use seems to be a good move.  (And thanks to all of you who suggested I do that in another, earlier thread about improving sync speeds!!)

[Sebby]

I'm glad you've sorted it (hopefully!).

[Rik]

Sounds like the result you needed, Krysia.

[MoHux]

As a matter of interest; how many phones do you have connected??  I am thinking REN.

[krysia]

Too many, actually!  I have 5 extensions and they all work, but I don't have the ringers turned on on all of them. 

[Rik]

That's certainly not an ideal setup for ADSL, Krysia. Sorry, but I can't remember, have you removed the ring wires?

[MoHux]

I have never had one, but I believe a 'Sky-box' can cause trouble if you have one.  Especially plus 5 extensions and a router.

[Rik]

Sky boxes can be the kiss of death, Mo. I've known one take out a complete street due to the noise it put on the line.

[krysia]

I wasn't able to remove the ring wires:  three of my sockets are very old (they were already in the house when we moved in in 1986), and I wasn't able to loosen the ring wires when I tried.  Maybe I should have investigated the two newer sockets.  I don't have a Sky box, so I'm glad to say I don't have to worry about that!  Right now I have one of the old extensions unplugged and am syncing at 5984; on Friday I sync-ed at 5856 during the day and went down to 5440 just after 5 pm.  My line comes in from a telephone pole in the street, and I wondered if that affects evening sync rates - I imagine some lines are underground?  Anyway, the sync speed seems good, as I think BT predicted 5.5 on my line.

[Sebby]

Sometimes underground lines are said to be better, other times it is thought that there isn't a lot of difference.

Your issues are probably a lot to do with the age of the line, sockets and wiring. A new drop wire, NTE5 master socket, internal wiring and extension sockets would probably do a lot of good. Getting a new drop wire is difficult and would generally only be done by BT if there is something wrong with the current one. But, you might be able to get BT to fit an NTE5 and then you could re-do the extension wiring. I know that some people have told BT they want to add extension wiring but cannot do so as they don't have an NTE5. It's worth a try.

[Rik]

Failing which, Krysia, cutting the ring wire at the extension sockets works pretty well.

[krysia]

I had another go at my sockets and cut/removed the ring wires on all extensions.  It's only caused a problem on the socket in the sitting room, which I have now identified as the master, as it has a capacitator in it.  Cutting the wire there has disabled the whole extension, and as I can't get the ring wire back in (it's a very old socket), I'm going to have to have the socket replaced.  Is it worth asking for an NTE5, even though I can't plug my router into it?  I'm going to use an independent engineer rather than BT.  BTW, result of all this is that I'm sync-ing at 7616 this morning.

[Rik]

That's weird, Krysia, removing a ring wire should have absolutely no effect on the working of the socket. If it is the master, getting an NTE5 fitted would make sense as it will provide you with a test socket should you encounter any problems.

[krysia]

Yes, I thought it was weird too, as removing the wire hasn't caused any difficulty in my other 4 extensions.  Given how old the socket is, it's no bad thing to be forced to replace it, and it's good to know the NTE5 is worth getting even if I can't plug the router into it.

[Sebby]

Be advised, though, that an independent engineer is not actually allowed to touch the master socket, let alone fit a NTE5. Just so you know.

[shazzy]

Sky box was causing me problems a while back so that's worth checking.  I didn't realise mine was the problem until my puppy chewed through the wire one day and I had a really good connection after that. 

[Sebby]

It's rare for animals to actually fix something!

[krysia]

I haven't got a sky box, so that's not a problem.  I didn't realise that only BT are officially allowed to touch master sockets - why is that?

[Inactive]

Because they own them, anything up to that box is theirs, anything past it is yours.

[Sebby]

I haven't got a sky box, so that's not a problem.  I didn't realise that only BT are officially allowed to touch master sockets - why is that?

Because it's their property. When I said "master sockets" above, I mean the old type that you have. This is the reason NTE5 master sockets were brought in. They allow you to remove the front plate of the master socket and add/remove extension wiring without actually touching the line that comes into the house.

[krysia]

I think in that case my real master socket is actually a little oblong box (about 2" x 3") just inside my front door, to which the outside line from the telephone pole is attached and from which extension wires run to all the extension sockets; the 'master socket' with capacitator in the living room must be just another extension.

[Inactive]

Sounds about right krysia, that sounds very much like one of the very old original early connection boxes, they were around that size. ( 2"x3" ).

[krysia]

Thanks for confirming that, Inactive!  Even a BT engineer I chatted to on the street didn't seem to know what I was talking about when I asked him about it!

[Sebby]

Now that doesn't surprised me. 

[krysia]

A great big thank you to all who have given me such good advice about improving my line stats.  Since disconnecting my ring wires last week, my router has synced constantly at 7616 (the maximum possible, given that interleaving is turned on), with a very healthy SNR margin of 13-14, usually 13.5, no matter what time of day or night - and that's even with all five extensions plugged in (I've had that weird socket replaced, the one that wouldn't work without the bell wire being connected).  Just out of curiosity, I'll ask IDNet to ask BT to turn off interleaving and see if that takes the sync any higher, but I'm very happy with how things stand.  It's especially great not to wonder when in the evening the router will decide to resync, especially as I occasionally use a VOIP phone.  So thanks again!   

[Inactive]

A result krysia, well done. 

[Rik]

Thanks for letting us know Krysia. Disconnecting the ring wire can be almost magical in its effect.

[Lance]

Great result! 

[plugwash]

I wasn't able to remove the ring wires:  three of my sockets are very old (they were already in the house when we moved in in 1986), and I wasn't able to loosen the ring wires when I tried.

thats what side cutters are for.

btw the most important ringer wire to disconnect is the one at the master socket.

[Sebby]

A great big thank you to all who have given me such good advice about improving my line stats.  Since disconnecting my ring wires last week, my router has synced constantly at 7616 (the maximum possible, given that interleaving is turned on), with a very healthy SNR margin of 13-14, usually 13.5, no matter what time of day or night - and that's even with all five extensions plugged in (I've had that weird socket replaced, the one that wouldn't work without the bell wire being connected).  Just out of curiosity, I'll ask IDNet to ask BT to turn off interleaving and see if that takes the sync any higher, but I'm very happy with how things stand.  It's especially great not to wonder when in the evening the router will decide to resync, especially as I occasionally use a VOIP phone.  So thanks again!  

Excellent news. I'm glad we were of help.

[Ann]

I used to get 8096 synch with interleaving on so you're not getting the highest possible yet!

[Rik]

Krysia is at the theoretical maximum, Ann, but some exchanges seem able to go higher.

[krysia]

I'm very glad to report that I'm now on the absolute maximum of 8128, now that interleaving has been turned off.  I sent a request to IDNet on Friday morning and, almost by return, got what I assumed was an automated acknowledgement, but I'd underestimated my ISP:  it was a personal e-mail from James, telling me he'd already actioned my request.  I have to say I'm grateful to Tiscali for taking over F2S - if that hadn't happened, I'd never have discovered the absolute delight of dealing with IDNet.  (One other example:  with F2S, my router hung on 'checking username and password' every evening when it re-synced.  A call to Billion told me that that had only ever happened once before when there was a problem at another ISP.  F2S told me it must be the router.  Guess what?  The day I migrated to IDNet, the problem disappeared.)  IDNet is a real  !

[Rik]

We feel just the same, Krysia - glad you're enjoying the service.

[Sebby]

Brilliant news. IDNet are the greatest, aren't they?