Wireless connection problems

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 16:53:34

Since about an hour ago, my wireless connection seems to keep dropping. I'm sitting right by the router, and I've not changed anything on the laptop or in the router. All that's happened is a Windows Update was installed. I don't think the router is dropping the internet connection, it's just the wireless connection to the laptop that seems to be unstable.

Any ideas?

Sebby · Feb 16, 2008, 17:10:09

Have you tried changing the channel? I has the same trouble with my 2Wire, yet I hadn't had problems with my SpeedTouch set on the same channel. Changing the channel fixed it, though. Try 1, 6, and 11 before others.

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 17:41:13

OK, will do, thanks Seb. Back on main PC now, as it was driving me nuts. How can the channel be OK one minute, and not the next?

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 17:41:37

I'm having the same problem today, though only with my 2700, other networks around seem fine, so I was blaming the 2700. Odd. I did try re-booting and changing channels, but it didn't solve anything. Possibly, therefore, it's something in the update which is affecting the WPA security. I need to dig some more...

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 18:04:29

Same here, Rik, and I've just reinstalled my security suite, in case it's that, but I feel a System Restore might be the only way forward. This definitely happened immediately after the WU.

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 18:09:09

I haven't used the wireless connection until today, so you're probably right. ATM, I've dropped to WEP, and that's holding up fine, so I'm going to try moving back to WPA shortly, with a new key and see what happens. Oops, spoke too soon, it's just dropped the WEP connection.

Anyone seeing this on other routers?

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 18:26:58

Just attempted a SR, which failed. Now trying in Safe Mode.

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 18:32:10

I'm not yet sure of this, Simon, but I have removed and then re-created the connection, and it seems more stable, though I have seen it drop out once briefly.

I had a look at the update history, and nothing there would appear to apply to wireless security, so I'm puzzled at the moment. If it continues, I'll pull the Netgear our of the cupboard and see if it behaves the same way.

The moment I hit post, the wireless connection dropped momentarily...

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 18:34:48

Also puzzling, yours is XP and mine is Vista, but I guess some of the WUs would be compatible. This isn't looking good. I also removed and recreated the connection, and it now won't connect at all, and the system restore seems to have gone to sleep half way through.

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 18:38:15

I noticed I got an updated driver for the 10/100 connection, so the next thing for me to try will be to roll that back.

madasahatter · Feb 16, 2008, 18:54:17

Quote from: Rik on Feb 16, 2008, 18:09:09
Anyone seeing this on other routers?

My Netgear DG834G wireless connection seems to be behaving itself - but then I haven't installed any WU this week, so.....

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 18:58:17

You might want to wait while Simon & I do battle with it, Mad. I think I may have an answer - a little left field, but I'm testing now.

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 19:05:53

Nothing working here, Rik. Tried system restore, and it did restore, but hasn't fixed the problem.

Baz · Feb 16, 2008, 19:06:09

Dont know why or its anything to do with this post but mine is going crazy....blinking lights all the time when it normally doesnt. none of the other machines on the system are doing anything so I dont know why. Did a re-boot but its still the same. its the Internet led and the Wireless one thats kicking off. Netgear dg834pn

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:09:40

Quote from: Simon on Feb 16, 2008, 19:05:53
Nothing working here, Rik. Tried system restore, and it did restore, but hasn't fixed the problem.

OK, what appears to be working for me - but I'm still testing - I rolled back the 10/100 driver which was updated by WU (though why that should affect wireless...) then I moved from channel 11 to channel 1. That seemed to give me stability, so I tried ch11 again, and it immediately start to drop out. I've got ch1 selected again, and am running ping graph to monitor the connection. I'll post back in a while, but I made 10 minutes before.

Explaining it may take longer though...

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:10:43

Quote from: Baz on Feb 16, 2008, 19:06:09
Dont know why or its anything to do with this post but mine is going crazy....blinking lights all the time when it normally doesnt. none of the other machines on the system are doing anything so I dont know why. Did a re-boot but its still the same. its the Internet led and the Wireless one thats kicking off. Netgear dg834pn

Is the wireless connection dropping, Baz? Are you losing sync as well (in which case it would be a very different cause).

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 19:13:28

Hmm... I just checked my 10/100 driver, and there was no option to roll back, so I uninstalled it, Windows immediately reinstalled it, and I'm now connected on Channel 1 with the usual WPA security. Just waiting and watching now.

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:15:03

I'm running ping graph to test it - it seems as good a tool as any. Eight minutes so far.

If this proves to be a cure, I'm going to be hard-pushed to explain why ch1 should resolve things...

Baz · Feb 16, 2008, 19:15:24

No its ok Rik. found out it was Limewire on the wifes lappy sitting in the hidden bits on the taskbar constantly trying to connect.

dont know how many times Ive told her about that

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:15:42

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 19:17:09

Down again, after less than a minute.

Back to the Netgear, I think.

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 19:20:11

It started downloading WUs again immediately, so I'm going to let it install them, then try the 10/100 thing again.

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:29:15

I'm at 24 minutes without a drop... Crossing fingers like crazy.

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 19:31:58

OK, did the above, and back on. BUT, I now have 'Terredo Tunnelling Pseudo-Interface' in Device Manager, under Network Adapters. WTF is that?? It has a yellow triangle by it, and it hasn't started, so I wonder if it's safe to remove it?

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:35:24

Wiki says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teredo_tunneling

Never seen one myself. It's as if there's an element of the updates they haven't old us about. ;(

30 minutes and OK so far...

madasahatter · Feb 16, 2008, 19:36:37

It's part of the IPv6 network interface in Windows Vista. I wouldn't concern myself with it unless you need to use IPv6.

Baz · Feb 16, 2008, 19:36:56

http://www.sharkyforums.com/showthread.php?t=299469

its about as clear as mud to me though

beaten to it

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:37:25

Quote from: madasahatter on Feb 16, 2008, 19:36:37
It's part of the IPv6 network interface in Windows Vista. I wouldn't concern myself with it unless you need to use IPv6.

But can you explain the wireless problems as well?

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 19:39:30

Dropped again as soon as I posted last message. Have now disabled 10/100 and Teredo thing, and am connected at this moment.

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:40:26

Keep us posted. I checked over on TB, no reports there that I could see. One for Sandra?

madasahatter · Feb 16, 2008, 19:41:46

Quote from: Rik on Feb 16, 2008, 19:37:25
But can you explain the wireless problems as well?

You just want everything don't ya?

This is where I hang my head in shame and admit that, far from me being clever enough to know that, I googled it like everyone else

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:43:45

It's OK, I'd Googled too. I just wish I could explain what has happened in hardware terms, if it is a hardware issue, in fact.

Maybe there's just a new network started up nearby on ch11, trouble is, I can't see one - so possibly it's something else in the waveband. I hate puzzles!

norman117777 · Feb 16, 2008, 19:47:30

I have a US Robotics 9110...never had a problem with it, but 3 days ago it started dropping my connection. Today I have had dropped connections mainly from 1700 untill now, but right at this moment it is still holding

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 19:49:09

Hi Norman,

and have a sympathetic Karma.

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 19:50:58

Is that the ADSL it was dropping, Norman? If so, it's probably a local noise issue. How is it connected to the phone line, eg extension lead, plugged into a hard-wired extension socket etc?

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 20:09:52

Mine is still out. It connects for a minute or two, then drops again. I have removed the Teredo thing, and it seems to have made no difference. How bloody annoying is this!!

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 20:24:10

I've just completed some 78 minutes without the connection dropping, provided I stay on ch1. As there's no strong networks showing that are new, I can only conclude that something in the Windows updates changed the wireless networking client, or that another device in the same frequency band has come into use near me. I just wish I could work out which it was.

Are you going to drop back to your old router and see if that helps?

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 20:25:43

I think I'll have to, Rik. Unless I go through each channel and see if I can find one that works.

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 20:32:45

I'd be inclined to try the other router first. Given we're both on the 2700 and both affected since the updates, it's a bit of a coincidence. You could probably set the other router up, not connected to the phone, and see whether the lappy holds the signal to it, just as a network, if you follow me. If it does, that would point the finger squarely at the 2700, if it doesn't, it's got to be Windows or, just possibly, a hardware issue on the lappy. If you have one, or can borrow one, it might be then worth trying a USB or PCMCIA wireless adaptor.

I'm now at 90 minutes without a problem, so for whatever reason, 11 has become an issue.

(I wonder if it could be a crystal in the router - Dean, are you there??)

Rik · Feb 16, 2008, 20:50:59

Oddity. Normally when I power down the lappy the wireless light goes out on the 2700. Now it doesn't. Nothing else is showing in the devices list, ie no piggy back. I'm even more puzzled...

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 21:05:40

Well, I'm now connected back on the Netgear. Must be a problem with the 2700. Just wondering whether it's worth trying the other one, or whether it'll screw up the profile to keep changing the router.

psp83 · Feb 16, 2008, 23:07:14

its weird that both of you are having the same problem.. a firmware problem?

have you checked if your firmware was updated ? as i know the 2700 updates without asking you first.

i refuse to install window updates straight away.. i wait about a month before i do that so they can patch there patches!

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 23:25:26

Hi Paul,

It's still a mystery. I thought the DNS poisoning prevented auto updates, but I could be wrong.

As the Netgear worked fine, I decided, against my better judgement, but to satisfy my curiosity, to try the 2700 again. This time, when I powered on, the red light came on... and stayed on. After 5 minutes, I came to the conclusion that it was fairly obviously dead. I then tried the 'spare' 2700 I had, and after setting it up, it seems to be working, and I've been online for about 10 minutes now. The wireless and ethernet lights are solid, and not flickering, like they were on the other one. The software version I have now, is 5.29.107.19. Not sure if that's later or earlier than the other one, but curiously, there's no apparent option to update on the Home page, which there was on the other one.

One thing I was slightly confused about was whether to choose Routed VC-Mux or Bridged VC-Mux. Both seem to work, and it's on Bridged at the moment.

So, it seems that something killed off the other 2700. Don't know if it was the WUs, but it was quite co-incidental that it started playing up immediately after they were installed.

madasahatter · Feb 16, 2008, 23:36:55

Quote from: Simon on Feb 16, 2008, 23:25:26
Don't know if it was the WUs, but it was quite co-incidental that it started playing up immediately after they were installed.

Ahhhh - the "Bill Gates knows all and doesn't like what you are doing" theory

Must admit Simon it does seem too strange to be a coincidence.

Simon · Feb 16, 2008, 23:39:40

Well, if a Windows Update can kill a router, what are they doing to the computer?!!

I suppose it could have been a co-incidence, if the router also had some sort of software issue going on. We may never know.

madasahatter · Feb 16, 2008, 23:41:34

You'll never know until it's too late (evil laugh)

psp83 · Feb 17, 2008, 00:24:50

Maybe there was a firmware upgrade to stop unlocked ones from working? Will be interesting to see if anymore 2700's goes or have gone down

The DNS poisoning never stopped the firmware update for me!

Simon · Feb 17, 2008, 00:41:03

I would have thought that any firmware update would have affected all 2700s, so as there are a few on here, it will be interesting to see if any others have had problems.

Rik · Feb 17, 2008, 10:12:50

Bear in mind also that I am on SBC firmware, so it's nothing to do with the router updating in my case.

You should be on routed-VCMux, btw, but I found it worked either way.

Inactive · Feb 17, 2008, 10:18:11

My theory on all of this ( what do I know?

) is that you have different problems, pure coincidence that they have happened at the same time.

Simon's is a classic dying 2700, by the sound of things.

Rik's is a nearby neighbour using a similar router frequency setting.

That is my theory.

Rik · Feb 17, 2008, 10:22:31

I'd agree with you for me, In, but I can't see a new network, and none of those I can see are above 1 bar in strength. I think it's a new device somewhere, emitting RF in the same band as the router - I just don't know what or where.

Inactive · Feb 17, 2008, 10:28:52

Puzzling one that Rik, I hope the change of frequency setting has effected a cure.

Rik · Feb 17, 2008, 10:31:46

So far... (we need a fingers crossed smiley!)

somanyholes · Feb 17, 2008, 11:26:26

Hey

If you are trying to establish if there are any new wireless ap's in your area and can't see any new ssid's then they may have chosen to hide their ssid. Most windows wireless software does not have the capability of doing passive scanning to pick up the hidden ssid. If you are looking to see if there are any new hidden ap's the following maybe of help.

If you are a linux user install kismet http://www.kismetwireless.net/ or you could use a live disk such as http://www.remote-exploit.org/backtrack.html which already has kistmet built in. Kismet can allow your card to run in rf mode (radio frequency) which will allow passive scanning of traffic and will show up supposedly hidden ssids. It will also show you a hell of a lot more information. This is one of the tools used to break wep wpa etc. It is just a wireless scannig app. More info on it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kismet_(program)

I have not used this but there does appear to be a windows port for this app. This may be of help.

http://www.renderlab.net/projects/wrt54g/kiswin.html

just out of interest have you guys uninstalled ipv6 from your wireless nics?

Rik · Feb 17, 2008, 11:32:18

Netstumbler will do the job for Windows. I must run a check. It does demonstrate one of the reasons why SSID should be broadcast, of course.

I haven't installed or uninstalled ipv6, how would I check?

somanyholes · Feb 17, 2008, 11:46:04

hey

the last time i used netstumbler it did not have the capability of showing hidden ssid's. Not sure of this has changed now. To see if ipv6 is installed on any of your nics pull up a command prompt and type "ipv6 if" more info can be found here http://www.microsoft.com/technet/network/ipv6/ipv6faq.mspx

Simon · Feb 17, 2008, 12:11:58

Quote from: Rik on Feb 17, 2008, 10:12:50
Bear in mind also that I am on SBC firmware, so it's nothing to do with the router updating in my case.

Good point, but I think In is right, in the we had different problems, arising coincidentally.

QuoteYou should be on routed-VCMux, btw, but I found it worked either way.

What's the difference?

Quote from: somanyholes on Feb 17, 2008, 11:46:04
hey

the last time i used netstumbler it did not have the capability of showing hidden ssid's. Not sure of this has changed now. To see if ipv6 is installed on any of your nics pull up a command prompt and type "ipv6 if" more info can be found here http://www.microsoft.com/technet/network/ipv6/ipv6faq.mspx

Thanks for that, will take a look.

Rik · Feb 17, 2008, 12:15:27

Quote from: Simon on Feb 17, 2008, 12:11:58
What's the difference?

In theory, bridging mode is used when you have a switch feeding the/some machines. However, I believe that routers often do what's right, regardless of what they say they are doing.

Simon · Feb 17, 2008, 12:47:57

It seems to be stable enough at the moment, although I am on my wired desktop right now. Lost a bit of speed though, with all the mucking about.

Rik · Feb 17, 2008, 12:51:06

Have you managed a BT test?

Amazing coincidence that we should both hit problems at the same time, though.

Simon · Feb 17, 2008, 13:08:09

Indeed, and no, not yet. Can't get away from here for long enough!

Rik · Feb 17, 2008, 13:13:31

I know just how you feel.

Kaiser Bill · Mar 09, 2008, 16:00:21

I've given up & moved to homeplug....absolutely faultless!

Rik · Mar 09, 2008, 16:03:09

What speed did you go for?

Sebby · Mar 09, 2008, 17:04:54

Quote from: Kaiser Bill on Mar 09, 2008, 16:00:21
I've given up & moved to homeplug....absolutely faultless!

I have to say that I have found wireless to be an absolute pain in the past for no apparent reason, and a wired solution is the simplest way. I'm glad it's working well for you.

Lance · Mar 09, 2008, 17:18:22

By contrast, I've never had a single problem with wireless

Sebby · Mar 09, 2008, 17:42:35

Show off.

Lance · Mar 09, 2008, 17:43:51

Kaiser Bill · Mar 10, 2008, 21:52:23

Quote from: Rik on Mar 09, 2008, 16:03:09
What speed did you go for?

200.... it literally took just plugging them in...I suspect that the 2wire was belting out the radio waves, bu the computer wasnt man-enough....the house has thick stone walls. I never noticed the sluggishness until I built a new machine with wireless built into the MB... then on some web pages ther'd be a 5 second delay & it would suddenly appear..... all over now, thanks to homeplugs... I commend them to you!!

Rik · Mar 11, 2008, 00:10:30

That's good to know, Bill, all the theory in the world doesn't rate as well as one hands-on report.