Cables

[Ann]

My computer is about 12 metres from the phone socket, that's 12 metres in cable length so up over the doorframe and so on.  Am I right in thinking that it's better to have the router by the phone socket on a short cable with a longer ethernet cable?  At the moment I've got it the other way around.  If that's right, I'd like to buy the best ethernet cable and connectors that I can get so what would anyone recommend?  I'm also thinking that this monster router would be better situated on the phone table in the hall rather than waiting to be knocked over just here. 

[Simon]

Have you thought about going wireless, Ann?

[scook94]

I think the longer LAN cable would be the preferred choice. Would a 10 metre cable be long enough? I'd go for a CAT6 cable.

[Ann]

I always thought that you lost some speed with wireless.  I could though I suppose.  Not sure I can be doing with another learning curve just yet though. and reading about the problems some are having I'm not sure it's stable enough.

I'd probably need 15m.. I keep looking at the room trying to think how I could reorganise it to get closer but I don't think that's going to be possible.

[Rik]

Another vote for the longer LAN cable, Ann. Cat5e or Cat6, Maplin (and others) can supply in a variety of lengths. Ethernet segments can be up to 100m, so don't worry about the sort of lengths you are thinking of.

[scook94]

Ann, I've seen 10 and 20m CAT6 cables on eBay, you may get 15m though.

if you go for a wireless router that is 802.11n ready then you'll get speeds of approx 300Mbit/s between you PC and router. Mine seems fast enough that I don't notice any difference over my wired connection.

[Sebby]

Ann, you are correct that sighting the router as close to the telephone socket as possible is advisable (preferably with a short, twisted-pair cable to minimise noise pickup before the router). Then use Cat5e or Cat6 to run to the PC. If this isn't really something you'd want to do, just ensure that the cable you currently have going from the socket to the router is high quality, such as these.

Or, as Simon say, go wireless. I'm not a great fan of wireless myself; when it works it can be nice, but I much prefer being hard-wired to the router.

[Simon]

I have to say, by choice I would always be wired, but in circumstances such as Ann's, I think wireless is worth considering, against having miles of cable running round the doors. 

[Rik]

I'd still run the cable, given the choice.

[Inactive]

I like to be different, so why not a mains HomePlug Adapter/s?..no learning curve, plug and play, no wireless problems either.

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/109683

[Rik]

A very good alternative, In, though a bit slower than cables.

[Ann]

Thanks for your views guys, I think I'll stick with the cable rather than go wireless.  I've always had the cable running over one door so I'm not bothered about it.  I chopped, or hacked might be a better work, a groove in the doorframe for the cable to run in so that the door shuts okay.  I might even use cable grips eventually!.. ever the procrastinating DIYer me.  But this is just a matter of swapping the sorts of cable round.  Have ordered it.. now got to wait..

Oh here's another thing.  How do you disconnect the 2Wire neatly to move it about?  The Netgear had a button to hit to disconnect but I can't find such a thing with this one.

I see now In's posted about an adapter.. will look at that.. Edit:  Oh I see what RIk says.. I don't want slow!

[Rik]

Just unplug the 2700 from the mains, Ann, and let the connection die away, that way the exchange doesn't see it as instability.

[Ann]

 

[Inactive]

I see now In's posted about an adapter.. will look at that.. Edit:  Oh I see what RIk says.. I don't want slow!

Not slow Ann, still quite fast, and there are faster ones available at a price.

[Sebby]

Oh here's another thing.  How do you disconnect the 2Wire neatly to move it about?  The Netgear had a button to hit to disconnect but I can't find such a thing with this one.

You don't have to worry, Ann. It's only if you were doing this constantly that it might cause your target SNRM to increase. One disconnect won't have any impact.

[Lance]

I love wireless - but only because I mainly use my laptop rather than desktop, and I use it all over the house and even in the garden on summer days! It is only slower if you are transfering files between different machines on the network. From what it sounds like younonly have the one machine and therefore the speed is irrelevant.

To disconnect the 2wire, just pull the plug first. That way the router sends a final signal to the exchange.

[Simon]

Might sound an odd question, but is pulling the plug direct from the back of the router, the same as pulling the mains plug from the socket?

[Rik]

No, that causes an abrupt power down and is similar to unplugging the phone line. Pulling the mains plug allows the voltage to decay and during that time the router sends a 'last gasp' signal to the DSLAM saying that it's disconnecting.

[Simon]

Oh right.  I'll have to remember that.  Trouble is, to get to the mains plug means pulling the computer desk out, as these things have huge transformers that won't fit on a normal two or three way adapter.

[Rik]

I always make sure I've got it on a trailing lead somewhere reachable. 

[Simon]

Well, hopefully, I won't have to disconnect it too often. 

[Rik]

Well, hopefully, I won't have to disconnect it too often. 

Don't forget about thunderstorms.

I've lost count of the number of sockets in this room now...

[Inactive]

I still cannot believe that the 2700 doesn't have an on / off switch TBH.

[Rik]

The Netgear doesn't either...

[Inactive]

The Netgear doesn't either...

I must be spoilt with my el cheapo's then Rik, they all have on / off switches, TBH I thought all routers had them.

[Rik]

I'm not sure about the rest, I wasn't paying enough attention when I was using other peoples'.

[ducky22]

Someone mentioned Cat6 earlier... There is really no point going for Cat6 unless you're going to go for a gigabit or faster network. Cat5e will work 'up to' 1gbit, certainly at 100mbit like the 2wire operates at.

[Rik]

I always feel it's worth future proofing if you're going to put in new cable, though. But then, I make 5 backups every day.

[ducky22]

I always feel it's worth future proofing if you're going to put in new cable, though. But then, I make 5 backups every day.

I only ever think 5 years in the future :-P. I'm already at gigabit and until hard drives become significantly faster, there will be no need for anything faster. I've never actually even got near 1gb throughput......

[Rik]

No, it's a shame that the promised speed never quite matches the delivered version, isn't it. Though, five years ago, how many people were running home networks?

[Ray]

The Netgear doesn't either...

The Speedtouch ST586 has got an on/off button. 

[Rik]

Thanks, Ray.

[merlin]

while on the subject of cables but slightly off topic, if you are ordering cat5/cat6/ cable and intend to connect it yourself, using the type of connector that you use a push in tool ( wish i could remember the connectors name,senior moment going on right now )
then make sure you use the solid wire cable and not the stranded version, that connector is not suited to stranded type

you can get around it by lightly soldering the stranded ends , but it makes for a mucky job , and we at idnet do not tolerate anything mucky !!!

[Rik]

Do you mean these?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=32111&&source=14&doy=18m2

[merlin]

no rik thats "crimp"
i mean the sort where you have atool about 4" long with a small slot in the end, such as you would connect the wires to a wall socket.
i may be wrong but is the word i,m struggling to find "cinch connectors"

[Rik]

Maplin only seem to have crimp connectors.

[merlin]

rik , look at the back of a telephone wall plate, the connectors are the ones i mean

[Rik]

IDC?

[merlin]

yep thats it ,they don't like stranded wire.

and why could.nt i remember that ??

[Rik]

I couldn't remember until you gave the the phone socket cluse.

[Inactive]

I couldn't remember until you gave the the phone socket cluse.

What is/are a " cluse " Rik??

No excuse .. 

[Rik]

It's a Peter Sellers clue. 

[Inactive]

I like it Rik..nice one.. 

[scook94]

Someone mentioned Cat6 earlier... There is really no point going for Cat6 unless you're going to go for a gigabit or faster network. Cat5e will work 'up to' 1gbit, certainly at 100mbit like the 2wire operates at.

That was me, and certainly the CAT6 cables are a few quid more expensive and it's unlikely there would be any real benefit over CAT5e. But Ann did say in her original post that she'd like to get the best cables and connectors, hence the recommendation, and as Rik points out it's slightly more future proof.

[BrianM]

http://www.maplin.co.uk/search.aspx?MenuNo=12567&MenuName=Telephone+Wall+Sockets+%26amp%3b+Connectors&worldid=-1&FromMenu=y&doy=search

IPc insertion tool

[Sebby]

I sometimes buy Cat6 if it's around the same price as Cat5e. I'm sure it makes no difference to my network, but who cares? 

[Rik]

Even if it's not the same price, it's nice to know you have the next speed step covered.

[Ann]

I got cat6 but wasn't really fussed between 5e and 6, but it's a long story of search and find, right colour and right length and somewhere that also sold a short length of decent rj11 stuff.  It's arrived.. so more fun and games tonight. 

[Rik]

So you'll be on a staple diet tonight then, Ann.

[Inactive]

 

[Azazel]

if anyone else is looking to do this get the sheilded Cat5e or Cat6 with LSOH (low smoke zero halogen) that is the higest quality of cable which will give the best quality signal transmission.

[Ann]

Too late for advice now    I got up early this morning to change the wiring about, plugged it all in and got... exactly the same synch speed as before.  So well worth the money then!  Ack.  Still it got the monster router out the way.  Can't shut the living room door now though, needs some attention.  It's lucky I don't have a nagging wife, that's all I can say.

[Rik]

There may be an improvement tonight, Ann, that's when noise is most prevalent.

[MoHux]

So you'll be on a staple diet tonight then, Ann.

You're asking for a clipped ear! 

[Rik]

I just wanted to nail the pun early, Mo.

[MoHux]

I just wanted to nail the pun early, Mo.

From the lack of further response, I'd say you didn't hammer it home hard enough Rik! 

[Rik]

 

Or I lacked punch?

[MoHux]

 

[Sebby]

Too late for advice now    I got up early this morning to change the wiring about, plugged it all in and got... exactly the same synch speed as before.  So well worth the money then!  Ack.  Still it got the monster router out the way.  Can't shut the living room door now though, needs some attention.  It's lucky I don't have a nagging wife, that's all I can say.

It doesn't always improve sync, but what it should do is make your connection less prone to noise pickup.

[MoHux]

It doesn't always improve sync, but what it should do is make your connection less prone to noise pickup.

................... she already knew that Seb'

It's lucky I don't have a nagging wife, that's all I can say.

[Sebby]

 

I can't see the connection, Mo!

[Ann]

 

[plugwash]

Another vote for the longer LAN cable, Ann. Cat5e or Cat6

Even bog standard cat 5 is more than good enough for 100 megabit ethernet which is probablly the fasted your equipment supports and is more than fast enough to not be the bottleneck on an ADSL connection (hell with BT connections you can't even break the 10 megabit barrier)

As for shielded that really shouldn't be nessacery in a domestic or commercial environment and is only worth having at all if you can keep up the shield continuity for the entire connection.

[merlin]

do we have any electrical/electonic/radio experts.
as we only use two wires, (provided the ring wire etc have been disconnected) and that adsl is prone to picking up medium wave transmissions. what would be the effect of actually earthing the spare wires, by say a copper stake outside the house
would this reduce noise, etc

[Gary]

do we have any electrical/electonic/radio experts.
as we only use two wires, (provided the ring wire etc have been disconnected) and that adsl is prone to picking up medium wave transmissions. what would be the effect of actually earthing the spare wires, by say a copper stake outside the house
would this reduce noise, etc

Probably BT giving you grief for mucking around with their side of the wiring  I think earthing would not have much effect as that's mainly to help with electrical spikes rather than potential noise, but I am probably way off the mark on this one

[Rik]

I suppose it might have a marginal effect, reducing any crosstalk from the spare wires to the live pair, but it would be marginal. The key about removing the ring wire is it removes it from the circuit. The best solution would be more tightly twisted pairs and an insulating sheath, more or less what Cat5-6 achieves.

[Gary]

I suppose it might have a marginal effect, reducing any crosstalk from the spare wires to the live pair, but it would be marginal. The key about removing the ring wire is it removes it from the circuit. The best solution would be more tightly twisted pairs and an insulating sheath, more or less what Cat5-6 achieves.

Rik do you think that for lines with ADSL max, 2+ etc BT should rewire inside homes with long runs to the master socket with something like cat5? In our home we have a good thirty foot of wire circa 1970's from where it comes in from the window to the master socket, and all the best cabling in the world on my part wont help poor quality line on their side.

[Rik]

I think BT should run fibre to the home, Gary, but that isn't going to happen either.

[Gary]

I think BT should run fibre to the home, Gary, but that isn't going to happen either.

Not where I live ever, not even cable Rik it just occurs to me that since the wire runs though the kitchen around the houses etc to get to the master socket, all the best cabling on my end is really is going to make much difference if BT's cable is basically cr@p and picking up noise anyway

[Rik]

You're right, Gary, all we can do is minimise the impact of our own cabling on noise pickup, but once it's out the door...

[Gary]

You're right, Gary, all we can do is minimise the impact of our own cabling on noise pickup, but once it's out the door...

Its a shame you cant get something like a form of bonding agent that you can put over BT's internal wiring with a mastic gun that acts as a shield to noise, it would be so easy to protect cable runs internally then well that's one for the inventors 

[Rik]

I suppose an aluminium paint might work?

[Gary]

I suppose an aluminium paint might work?

That's possible or it could act like a giant aerial maybe? I suppose a small wire mesh like a mini faraday cage would do that you could clip over it as well, possibly something to test out, you never know it may be something that the Dragons Den would finance to help all the users with a bad snr if it could be proven to work

[Rik]

Another option would be ducting with a foil liner which could be earthed.

[Gary]

Another option would be ducting with a foil liner which could be earthed.

That's a good idea and easy to earth as well..... I may try getting Justina to fun aluminium foil over the largest  length of it then earth it to the radiator and see what happens

[Inactive]

Or....you could just cut off all of BT's internal cables, move " their " box to where the cable enters the property...sorted.. 

[Inactive]

.. I may try getting Justina to fun aluminium foil over the largest  length of it then earth it to the radiator and see what happens

You may get pleasantly warm Gary.. 

[Rik]

Must... bite... tongue...   

[Gary]

Or....you could just cut off all of BT's internal cables, move " their " box to where the cable enters the property...sorted.. 

Yes a NTE5 box attached to the kitchen wall by the window would be most useful In, so that's more telephone extension cable... possibility that BT will cut me off if they found out I cut their wiring, more cat5E cable to buy and run around the house to the adsl nation face plate...... cheers In

[Gary]

You may get pleasantly warm Gary.. 

I did mean the earthing point on the radiator pipes In, for the household wiring not the hot radiator itself, yet somehow I can just see Justina's reaction

[Inactive]

...... cheers In

You knew that i would come up with a perfect solution Gary...

[Gary]

You knew that i would come up with a perfect solution Gary...

[merlin]

Another option would be ducting with a foil liner which could be earthed.

now isn't that what i just suggested !!! but in a different form ??

[Rik]

Yes, I was just going the lateral route.

[plugwash]

possibility that BT will cut me off if they found out

highly unlikely. The worst i've heared of BT doing for messed with wiring is charging to put it right.

And i'm pretty sure they don't keep records of exactly where the master socket is in the property so as long as you don't introduce any new cable or accessories that aren't to BT spec they won't find out.

[Sebby]

I'd also find it unlikely that they'd take any real sort of action. They have to put these regulations in place so that people don't start messing with their lines.