Oh no, its another slow connection thread :)

[k3v]

Hi, Ive stumbled across this board and there seem to be some very knowledgeable people on here, so I thought i'd give it a go

About 9 months ago my broadband went slow, with a very crackly line, ive put up with it because it has been intermittent and although my speeds have been rubbish, it has been useable... just.  Ive just got motivated to try and cure it and this is where i am up to. My router is on an upstairs extension, but ive tried it on the master with no difference. Ive got an old type master socket with about ten extensions hard wired in the back. Only one phone is plugged into the master at the moment. Ive replaced the adsl filter upstairs with an adslnation face plate. This has made the line quite a bit better for voice calls but my download  speeds have only gone up from 750k to 1500 but it is synching higher. I used to get 6.5 mbit  before all the problems.

BT speed test

The speed test has completed on test server speedtester1.nat.bt.com for user ****** and you have downloaded a 1.7Mb file at a speed of

1984 kilo bits per second (Kbps), your service bandwidth will have been quoted to you in kilo bits per second.

2 wire router stats

           
      
DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair):       Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol:       G.DMT
Downstream Rate:       3776 kbps
Upstream Rate:       448 kbps
Channel:       Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:       11.5 dB (Downstream), 24.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:       22.5 dB (Downstream), 17.5 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power:       19.5 dB (Downstream), 12.0 dB (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information:       Country: {B5} Vendor: {TSTC} Specific: {0}
PVC Info:       0/38


Collected for 23:23:35
      Since Reset       Current 24-Hour Interval       Current 15-Minute Interval       Time Since Last Event
ATM Cell Header Errors:       205       205       2       0:04:13
ATM Loss of Cell Delineation:       66       66       0       0:21:16
DSL Link Retrains:       11       11       0       0:21:06
DSL Initialization Errors:       0       0       0       0:00:00
DSL Initialization Timeouts:       0       0       0       0:00:00
DSL Line Search Initializations:       0       0       0       0:00:00
DSL Loss of Framing Failures:       49       49       0       0:21:16
DSL Loss of Signal Failures:       29       29       0       0:21:16
DSL Loss of Power Failures:       0       0       0       0:00:00
DSL Loss of Margin Failures:       167       167       0       0:10:51
DSL Cumulative Errored Seconds:       96       96       1       0:04:13
DSL Severely Errored Seconds:       66       66       0       0:21:16
DSL Corrected Blocks:       1598141       1598141       7       0:02:20
DSL Uncorrected Blocks:       3796       3796       1       0:04:13
ISP Connection Establishment:       1       1       0       23:23:18

[Rik]

Hi and welcome to the forum, have a karma.  

I've removed your phone number from your post, otherwise you might get inundated.

That's not a normal BT speed test result, have you tried at http://test.speedtester.bt.com:50301/ (be prepared to be patient, we've found that it generally works better with IE than Firefox for most people. You will need your phone number and your full ISP login to use the tester)

Looking at your stats, you should be synching a lot faster than that. It does look as if your noise margin has been raised to stabilise the line, but that doesn't explain the low throughput. There are two possibilities, congestion at your ISP, or a low profile. If you can get a BT test done, it will establish which it is. I suspect, though, that you will need to raise a fault with your ISP.

[DeViTTo]

  Welcome I cant answer the questions but someone will be with you shortly i.e Rik. All I can say that seems like a lot of extensions off the main socket. Are you sure it made no difference off the master have you checked the line stats in your router/modem.

What type do you have?

edit :Damn Rik beat me to it lol 

[k3v]

Ive just counted the telephones and there are 8. It definitely made no difference worth mentioning to the stats, but that was before I fitted the new filter on the extension.

Ive just run the test in the link and got the same stats as before.... I thought it was weird...


thanks for the warm welcome BTW

[RA-1972]

who is your isp ?

[k3v]

F2S



ive just cleared cookies etc and tried to run the test, it old me i have to wait 30 mins now.

[Rik]

So you're not getting a profile from the speed test? Are you on an LLU connection? (Sorry, this is sounding a bit like Twenty Questions. )

Eight phones shouldn't directly affect your ADSL, but they are likely to bust the REN limit of 4, so might just be having an adverse effect. Certainly, a lot of extensions will not be helping - at the very least disconnect the ring wire from terminal 3 at all sockets.

[RA-1972]

Theres your problem mate FS2 , come to idnet and no more problems .................




p.s Should we really tell other peeps to come to idnet ?

[Rik]

Yes, the more successful IDNet get, the better the service will be.

[k3v]

Theres your problem mate FS2 , come to idnet and no more problems .................




p.s Should we really tell other peeps to come to idnet ?

All joking apart, could it make that much difference? I dont mind switching ISP's if it helps

Regarding the Bt speedtest, it didnt ask me for my adsl log in name, it has in the past....

[Rik]

Maybe F2Sis routing you to the old test?

If you read through some of the posts here, you'll find plenty of stories of people getting massive improvements with a move to IDNet. I can't guarantee that, but I can guarantee you'll find the service second to none. Certainly, your line stats should be delivering you more speed, and also suggest your should be synching higher than you are.

[RA-1972]

kev if you read alot of the post on here mate , you will rellise that there is not a better isp out there , i have only been here for 2 months now and it is great low pings and great dl speeds 8oo k .

[RA-1972]

lol rik beat me again DOH 

[k3v]

So you're not getting a profile from the speed test? Are you on an LLU connection? (Sorry, this is sounding a bit like Twenty Questions. )

Eight phones shouldn't directly affect your ADSL, but they are likely to bust the REN limit of 4, so might just be having an adverse effect. Certainly, a lot of extensions will not be helping - at the very least disconnect the ring wire from terminal 3 at all sockets.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange.php?ecode=SLCL

I spoke to customer support today and they said I had been swapped over onto some new hardware in the exchange two days ago and to wait and see if will get better.
Each room of my house has one or two extensions, It used to be a 2 bed semi but it got converted to a 3 bed semi and the guy who had it done was an electrician so he went a bit mad with mains plug/telephone and television sockets!

thanks for all the quick responses!!

[Rik]

If he was a sparks, take a good look at the wiring, he may have used split pairs, or even alarm cable, both of which would put a lot of noise on the circuit. You need just two wires, on terminals 2 & 5 at each socket. With standard phone cabling they should be a pair, eg white/blue and blue/white. If they are, say, white/blue and white/orange, you need to do some re-wiring.

[Lance]

kev!

[k3v]

If he was a sparks, take a good look at the wiring, he may have used split pairs, or even alarm cable, both of which would put a lot of noise on the circuit. You need just two wires, on terminals 2 & 5 at each socket. With standard phone cabling they should be a pair, eg white/blue and blue/white. If they are, say, white/blue and white/orange, you need to do some re-wiring.

Ill go check. Ill put the router in the mains socket again, but as I understand it because all the extensions are wired into the back and I dont have a NTE5 socket, then I have no way of eliminating the wiring. What I find strange is that it did work fine in the beginning and I can't recollect doing anything.  I will go check the wiring but I can see the one in the room I'm in now is wired up properly as I havent put the face plate back on properly because I need to chisel some plaster out.

ill have into joining as I know a lot of people have left F2S, i have been happy with them cos i'm on a 20 gig per month contract but they just dont charge if you go over it. Im ust admit I havent looked into the deals about in the last 2 years.

Going back to a previous reply, no it didnt give me a profile, ill check agina now because I have seen it in the past

[RA-1972]

I know idnet are doing one month free at the moment , plus it is not a 12 month contract  it is monthly , It is not the cheapest but there is a saying, you pay for what you get .

[MoHux]

I spoke to customer support today and they said I had been swapped over onto some new hardware in the exchange two days ago and to wait and see if will get better.
Each room of my house has one or two extensions, It used to be a 2 bed semi but it got converted to a 3 bed semi and the guy who had it done was an electrician so he went a bit mad with mains plug/telephone and television sockets!

thanks for all the quick responses!!

It sounds as if k3v has been unbundled! 

Suggestion k3v, try removing all extensions from the old Master Socket 'cept for the one upstairs your router uses, the ADSLNation faceplate will do it's stuff.  Then do a BT Speedtest.

[k3v]

It sounds as if k3v has been unbundled! 

Suggestion k3v, try removing all extensions from the old Master Socket 'cept for the one upstairs your router uses, the ADSLNation faceplate will do it's stuff.  Then do a BT Speedtest.

Is unbundling good?

I cant unplug the extensions as they are hard wired into the back

[Sebby]

You have 2 problems as far as I can see. One is that something is probably not quite right with in with the wiring in your property, and the other is that F2S aren't so great these days, so you won't get the speeds to reflect your sync. Certainly moving to IDNet would mean you get the speed to match your sync.

You mention that you used to get 6Mb. Regardless of the ISP, you'll never achieve that at the moment.

So, first thing's first, do you have a NTE5 master socket? If so, remove the front plate (be careful as the extension wiring will be connected to it from the inside, so just let it dangle) and connect the router to the socket behind that plate. Then re-post your stats.

That will show whether your internal wiring is to blame, and we can take it from there.

[Sebby]

Is unbundling good?

I cant unplug the extensions as they are hard wired into the back

It's not good or bad. Unbundled ISPs (Tiscali, Sky, Be*, and so on) have their own equipment in BT's exchanges, which means it's cheaper for them to provide the service to the end user.

[k3v]

You have 2 problems as far as I can see. One is that something is probably not quite right with in with the wiring in your property, and the other is that F2S aren't so great these days, so you won't get the speeds to reflect your sync. Certainly moving to IDNet would mean you get the speed to match your sync.

You mention that you used to get 6Mb. Regardless of the ISP, you'll never achieve that at the moment.

So, first thing's first, do you have a NTE5 master socket? If so, remove the front plate (be careful as the extension wiring will be connected to it from the inside, so just let it dangle) and connect the router to the socket behind that plate. Then re-post your stats.

That will show whether your internal wiring is to blame, and we can take it from there.

thanks for the reply. No i dont have a NTE5 master socket
if my connection remains stable, will the synch improve?

[Sebby]

Sorry, I didn't read your original post properly. 

Without a NTE5 (a lot of properties don't have them) it's difficult to say whether it's your internal wiring or a BT/Tiscali LLU problem.

I know it's a pain, but is it possible you could temporarily disconnect the hard-wired extensions and see if you sync any higher?

You mention that you had a crackly line. That could indicate a line fault. Do you still have the crackling at all?

[k3v]

The  crackling is all but gone, there is s mall amount still there some of the time and it stops when no router is plugged in. If i look at the master socket to remove the extension wiring, is it obvious?

I have a BT 2700hgv thingy coming tomorrow, to rule out my router..

edit:

brown and silver, just 2 wires must be the main cable, these go to 2 and 5 where a blue/white and white/blue also connect(my house wiring?) also the same wire has an orange wire going to 3. Does this sound correct?

[Sebby]

I'm not certain how non-NTE5s are setup to be honest.

From what you've just said (about the noise going when the router is unplugged) it sounds like it could simply be a filter problem. Have you got good filters on every socket?

[Simon]

I can't help you any more than these guys, but    Kev.  Providing it's a working one (is it new?), a 2700 is at least one step in the right direction.  Some have had bad luck, but many people have them on here, and have reported improved performance over their old router. 

[k3v]

Ive got an ADslnation on the extension with the  router upstairs and one of two filter that came with my router downstairs on the master, they work equally as bad/good

[k3v]

I can't help you any more than these guys, but    Kev.  Providing it's a working one (is it new?), a 2700 is at least one step in the right direction.  Some have had bad luck, but many people have them on here, and have reported improved performance over their old router. 

thanks for the welcome. It was after reading this forum that i decided to get one. I have a 2 wire intelligent gateway 1800 at the mo, so hopefully it will be an improvement.

Im looking for some info on master socket wiring, then ill pull the wires.....
Whats the chances pf Bt finding out if I swapp the master socket for a filtered one, i wonder

edit: If i put a filtered master socket on then would I only be able to connect the router to the master socket? this would be no good

[Sebby]

thanks for the welcome. It was after reading this forum that i decided to get one. I have a 2 wire intelligent gateway 1800 at the mo, so hopefully it will be an improvement.

Im looking for some info on master socket wiring, then ill pull the wires.....
Whats the chances pf Bt finding out if I swapp the master socket for a filtered one, i wonder

The problem is, Kev, that you can't fit the ADSL Nation XTE-2005, which is the one that terminates the ADSL signal where the line enters the house, and sends only the telephone signal to the extension wiring. If you fit an ADSL Nation XTF-68 or XTF-85, it won't make any difference; imagine these are just like microfilters, except a socket version.

Ideally, BT would fit a NTE5 for you, then you could fit a XTE-2005. Some have had success at getting one fitted by telling BT they want to fit extension wiring (as legally you're not allowed to touch the type of master socket you have, whereas NTE5s were designed so that we could add extension wiring without touching BT's line).

[k3v]

I see. I think ill just have to remove the wires and take it from there.

Is it possible i could get a nsty shock from the main telephone cable?

[Inactive]

Welcome k3v, it is possible that your problem is related to your ISP, doesn't F2S have a help forum like this?

If they do, you may be better off asking questions there.

[Simon]

Ah, but now he's here, In, there's no escape until he joins IDNet. 

[Inactive]

I don't see much enthusiasm in that direction from him/her Simon, time will tell.

[k3v]

I don't see much enthusiasm in that direction from him/her Simon, time will tell.

F2S do have a forum, ive already posted on it and didnt get answers which were as helpful as on here....
As for joining, honestly, i'm not sure. Ive got to do some research. Do Idnet charge if you go over the limit? F2S have never charged me, but I don't go over all the time

[Lance]

The charge is £1gb over, and yes they do actually charge it. They do provide warning emails if you are looking likely to go over your limit and your can sign up for a RSS feed which updates day with the off and on peak useage, as well as the projection for the month.

From what yo've already said, you have a 20gb limit and occasionally go over. This would mean that on IDNet, the closest package for your needs is the Home Max package and this has a 30gb limit so hopefully you shouldn't go over it that often!

[Rik]

It sounds correct. Disconnect the orange wire on 3 from all sockets and marvel at how much better your signal is.

[Ann]

What I would do.. but I always take the easy way out.. is to complain to BT that the line is noisy and also that their wiring has been tampered with by the previous owner and get them to come and fix it.  Be really nice to the engineer and he'll fit a new NTE5 that you can then play with.

But I have had the same degradation of synch speed as you.  I used to synch at the highest possible then it went down a bit and now it's gone down a lot.  It's likely to be BT that have ruined my line as I have done nothing.  So it's likely that you'll never get it as good as it once was but noise on the line is definitely bad news.

[k3v]

hi

ive taken out the extension wiring, the router is in the master, i can hear definite noise which stops when i unplug the router, its also on a brand new filter from my new 2700 hgv which has turned up.

DSL Line (Wire Pair):  Line 1 (inner pair)

Protocol:  G.DMT

Downstream Rate:  3872 kbps

Upstream Rate:  448 kbps

Channel:  Interleaved

Current Noise Margin:  11.5 dB (Downstream), 22.0 dB (Upstream)

Current Attenuation:  22.5 dB (Downstream), 18.0 dB (Upstream)

Current Output Power:  19.5 dB (Downstream), 12.0 dB (Upstream)

DSLAM Vendor Information:  Country: {B5} Vendor: {TSTC} Specific: {0}

PVC Info:  0/38



Internet Connection Details

[Rik]

What does the noise sound like? Normally, if it stops when you unplug the router, it suggest a poor or faulty filter. The ADSL Nation xf-1e is about the best 'soap on a rope' filter there is, so it might be worth trying one. http://www.adslnation.com/products/xf-1e.php

Your noise margin seems to have been raised, but your sunc speed is still very low for that attenuation. Make sure it's not a filter issue (try putting two in series) and if it persists, raise a fault through your ISP.

[k3v]

Hi, the noise is just a low, static sounding noise. How do I put two in series? Does the first one not filter the adsl out of the second? dont see it being the filter because I have tried 1 adslnation face plate and 3 BT filters.

[Lance]

My old linksys router used to put noise onto the line. At first I thought it was the filter playing up so tried a couple of different ones. In the end I got another router and tried that in it's place and lived happily ever after. So, if you could maybe borrow a router from a friend, trying that my be useful.

[Rik]

I presume you're hearing the noise on the phone? It's the phone I was talking about double filtering - you are right, the ADSL would need to connect to the first filter (the ADSL side is, in fact, unfiltered). If you are hearing the noise on the phone, is it when you've dialled 17070 and done the quiet line test (option 2)?

It may not be the filter, but before you ask for a BT visit you want to be sure, otherwise you are potentially looking at a bill of £160+.

[k3v]

DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate: 5824 kbps 
Upstream Rate: 448 kbps 
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 15.0 dB (Downstream) 24.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 34.2 dB (Downstream) 18.5 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 19.8 dBm (Downstream) 11.9 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {TSTC} Specific: {0x00}
PVC Info: 0/38


Hi the above is from my 2700 hgv router which I have just set up... the attenuation has gone way up!! the noise is still on the line, its not bad and it doest worry me all i'm bothered about is improving adsl not voice calls

[Lance]

Those stat's look better and more realistic. Basically your sync has gone up significantly and it seems your margin is set at 15db. For your attenuation, these figures look about right. We will now need to see if your connection is stable with the 2wire router.

Whilst your not worried about improving the voice, often the fault (if there is one) will affect both. I would suggest reporting noise on the line to BT as a voice fault and see what they say.

[k3v]

The noise stops as soon as you unplug the router, which i imagine would be the first thing BT do, the second would be give me a big bill i'm stuck now

thanks for your help, i do live close to the exchange btw

Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT Annex A
Downstream Rate: 4864 kbps 
Upstream Rate: 448 kbps 
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 13.0 dB (Downstream) 22.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 35.3 dB (Downstream) 19.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 19.8 dBm (Downstream) 12.1 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {TSTC} Specific: {0x00}
PVC Info: 0/38


the stats on my other router seemed to go up and down wildly over time, by that i mean it would be around 4 at night then drop to 1 in the morning

[Sebby]

So the noise is now happening on 2 different routers (albeit the same make)? I still think it's the filters, but if you've tried different ones, you're going to have to let BT take a look.

[Lance]

Have you got any other sockets you could try the router at? I'm wondering if the socket itself is faultly in some way.

I take it all you did between these different stats was unplug and plug back in?

[k3v]

yes, all i did was unplug/plug back in. the only other sockets available are the ones if i put the extensions back on the rear of the master socket. im gonna have to get BT out now, i think. its beyond me. thnkas for everyones help.  ill report back 


kev

[Lance]

IDNet may be able to offer some advice and may be able to think of something we haven't. It seems strange that the noise stops when you unplug the router, even though you have changed the filters.

[Sebby]

Indeed, Lance, which is why I think this may be one for BT, given that he's tried a different filter, router, and socket. 

[k3v]

        
      
DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair):       Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol:       G.DMT
Downstream Rate:       5152 kbps
Upstream Rate:       448 kbps
Channel:       Interleaved
Current Noise Margin:       14.5 dB (Downstream), 20.0 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation:       21.5 dB (Downstream), 17.5 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power:       19.5 dB (Downstream), 12.0 dB (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information:       Country: {B5} Vendor: {TSTC} Specific: {0}




the above is plugged into the master with my old 2 wire router, the line is quiet! no noises.... but i bet it doesnt stay like this!! It seems weird that the attenuation is shown as a lot lower on my  2wire old router as opposed to my 2 wire new (2700 hgv)

Ive had enough today, im gonna leave it as it is for a while and see

once again, thanks for everyones help...

[Sebby]

There's certainly something strange going on, Kev, and I just can't put my finger on it!

[Lance]

Let's see if it is stable like that then. I hate these sort of problems which are so difficult to solve!

[k3v]

 991 kilo bits per second (Kbps), your service bandwidth will have been quoted to you in kilo bits per second.

Your IP address is *****, your browser is reported as being Microsoft Internet Explorer 7.0 and is running on Windows NT 6.0.

BT would regard the speed ranges shown below as normal service:
                                                                          ^nice
                                     

speedy!

has anyone tried the BT test today, i dont get to put my username in, it just gives me a speed test...

Is there any software to monitor synch/line stats etc

[Rik]

There is an esoteric line fault which can dor that, something to do with high resistance, iirc.

[Lance]

Is there any software to monitor synch/line stats etc

There is a program called routerstats available from here: http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm

You may just wish to use the lite version.