More arrests for pinching wireless

[madasahatter]

2 men arrested for unauthorised use of wireless network and a timely reminder:

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3420-two-arrested-for-using-home-owners-wireless-network.html

[Rik]

How do you use a timely reminder in an unauthorised manner?

[madasahatter]

I'm sure i could find a way if I really tried 

[Rik]

 

Perhaps we should hold a competition?

[Inactive]

It does beg the question, would your local Bobby know what was legal or not.

[Rik]

Probably not. Police are going to find this increasingly difficult to deal with as more people use 3G connections. There's likely to be a need for forensics to be involved, and the risk of lawsuits for wrongful arrest.

[somanyholes]

it would be been so simple for them to not get caught as well, using a mac spoofing program like the ones listed here

http://www.securityfocus.com/tools/4322
http://www.securityfocus.com/tools/4263
http://www.securityfocus.com/tools/3930

[Rik]

Assuming the police actually checked that far, of course...

[somanyholes]

guilty untill proven innocent does seem to be a popular stance at the moment

[Simon]

More fool the 'victim' for not using proper wireless security.   

[Rik]

Perhaps we are going to have to get written authority to use a laptop in a car, complete with iris scan and thumbprint.

[madasahatter]

More fool the 'victim' for not using proper wireless security.   

To be honest Simon, I completely disagree with the culture we have now where if you are a victim of crime it is almost considered to be your own fault because you didn't protect your house, car, wireless connection etc enough. You should not HAVE to go to the trouble, and quite often expense, of keeping wrongdoers out. I know that in the society we live in today this is not the case, but a crime is not the fault of the victim at all - it's completely the fault of the perpetrator of the crime - no one else.

[Inactive]

I agree with that MH.

[somanyholes]

Being naive is not an excuse imo, open wireless is just like having your door open, and how many people
do that these days? Not many because most people are only naive when it suits them.

[Rik]

Though most people probably find a door lock easier than setting up a router?

[Gary]

I did read of a guy who runs his system as an open network for friends in his block of flats who cannot afford internet, he has wireless isolation setup but he does it as he thinks its like a mini hotspot for them so, so if the police caught you using his I cannot see them believing you even though he does not care who uses it and im sure BT were thinking of a scheme where you could do the same to provide local wifi hotspots as well just to confuse matters

[Inactive]

Being naive is not an excuse imo, open wireless is just like having your door open, and how many people
do that these days? Not many because most people are only naive when it suits them.

Even " leaving the door open " should not mean that anyone can just walk in.

[Rik]

I did read of a guy who runs his system as an open network for friends in his block of flats who cannot afford internet, he has wireless isolation setup but he does it as he thinks its like a mini hotspot for them so, so if the police caught you using his I cannot see them believing you even though he does not care who uses it and im sure BT were thinking of a scheme where you could do the same to provide local wifi hotspots as well just to confuse matters

Technically, I suppose, he has granted rights to a specific group of people. (And probably breached his ISPs terms and conditions in the process!)

[Gary]

Even " leaving the door open " should not mean that anyone can just walk in.

That was a long time ago In, sadly I remember the days you could leave your door open and I'm only 42 and a half

[Gary]

Technically, I suppose, he has granted rights to a specific group of people. (And probably breached his ISPs terms and conditions in the process!)

Probably Rik, but BT wanted to introduce a scheme where they gave you a specific wifi router that would broadcast separately from your service to provide hotspots in rural areas I assume you then had to pay BT to use them, but they may have been free hotspots, I remember reading that people did not fancy the idea much though

[madasahatter]

Being naive is not an excuse imo, open wireless is just like having your door open, and how many people
do that these days? Not many because most people are only naive when it suits them.

Call it naivety if you like, but that doesn't alter the fact that the person pinching your wireless connection is the one in the wrong, not you. Yes, we all lock our doors and windows, pay out for burglar alarms etc, pay out for immobilisers and alarms on our cars, but my point was that if everyone could keep their sticky fingers to themselves, as they should, then we wouldn't have to.

I realise that this is perhaps a bit of an old fashioned view, but hey - I'm getting on a bit so I think I'm entitled 

[Inactive]

That was a long time ago In, sadly I remember the days you could leave your door open and I'm only 42 and a half

I know Gary, guess what, I never lock my front door, or my car in the village in Spain.

I do here tho'.

What I meant was, that if someone leaves their door open, they are still the " victim " if something should go wrong.

[Gary]

Call it naivety if you like, but that doesn't alter the fact that the person pinching your wireless connection is the one in the wrong, not you. Yes, we all lock our doors and windows, pay out for burglar alarms etc, pay out for immobilisers and alarms on our cars, but my point was that if everyone could keep their sticky fingers to themselves, as they should, then we wouldn't have to.

Sadly Mad everyone wants something for noting but the idea of driving about searching for unlocked wifi seems like a waste of time, I could think of better things, saying that if i do s scan with my phone the number of people with a ssid called Netgear  with no encryption is amazing

[Gary]

I know Gary, guess what, I never lock my front door, or my car in the village in Spain.

I do here tho'.

What I meant was, that if someone leaves their door open, they are still the " victim " if something should go wrong.

Thats true In, but god help you if you try to defend yourself to forcefully, the thief will have you in court otherwise

[Simon]

Call it naivety if you like, but that doesn't alter the fact that the person pinching your wireless connection is the one in the wrong, not you. Yes, we all lock our doors and windows, pay out for burglar alarms etc, pay out for immobilisers and alarms on our cars, but my point was that if everyone could keep their sticky fingers to themselves, as they should, then we wouldn't have to.

I'm not saying the 'victim' is in the wrong, or that the perpetrator is right pinching an unsecured wireless connection, but in the world we live in today, if it ain't nailed down, it's going to get nicked!  If you did go out, and leave your front door open, when you get burgled, and the insurance company find out you left your home unsecured, they would just say tough luck, mate!  Yes, the stealing of wireless bandwidth is wrong, and it shouldn't happen, but it does, and therefore, people need to take measures to prevent it. 

[madasahatter]

Thats true In, but god help you if you try to defend yourself to forcefully, the thief will have you in court otherwise

Unfortunately that is true, but that is one of the main problems with our justice system - the perpetrator has more rights than the victim. To me, if you are somewhere you shouldn't be, doing something you shouldn't be, then you should be considered to have given up all your rights, and therefore whatever happens to you is on your own head.  

[somanyholes]

I know what you guys are saying, and yes i agree, but we all know its not the simple. We shut the door and lock it for securitys sake. Ideal world = dream
If somebody is burgaled and they have left the door wide open, I  have no sypathy for them, do you?
If somebody is burgaled and they shut the door but didn't lock it, I think silly person? Do you?
If somebody is burgaled and they shut the door and lock it, I think thats awful but could they have done more, security system etc, do you?
f somebody is burgaled and they shut the door and lock it, and have a security system, I think thats bloody awful. Do you? to right you do

The wireless door is the same to me, can we all honestly say we have never even hit connect just to see what happened. Maybe this is just the younger generations view of things.
Thats not meant as an offence

[Rik]

My household insurance started off wanting me to have BS 5-lever locks, graduated to a NACOS alarm system, then finally insisted that the alarm was on at nights, even if we are in the house. I'm waiting for the razor wire to become a condition.

[Simon]

Mine insisted on window locks, and offered a discount for an alarm, but I guess that's not uncommon.

[madasahatter]

I know what you guys are saying, and yes i agree, but we all know its not the simple. We shut the door and lock it for securitys sake. Ideal world = dream
If somebody is burgaled and they have left the door wide open, I  have no sypathy for them, do you?
If somebody is burgaled and they shut the door but didn't lock it, I think silly person? Do you?
If somebody is burgaled and they shut the door and lock it, I think thats awful but could they have done more, security system etc, do you?
f somebody is burgaled and they shut the door and lock it, and have a security system, I think thats bloody awful. Do you? to right you do

The wireless door is the same to me, can we all honestly say we have never even hit connect just to see what happened. Maybe this is just the younger generations view of things.
Thats not meant as an offence

If someone is burgled, yes I have sympathy for them whatever the circumstances. I may think they were silly for not locking the door, say, but I still have sympathy for them.

As for the younger generation bit - you're getting older by the day mate - be catching up to me soon

[somanyholes]

nooooooo 3 years off 30 mate, going to make them last 10 years if i can 

[Inactive]

If someone is burgled, yes I have sympathy for them whatever the circumstances. I may think they were silly for not locking the door, say, but I still have sympathy for them.

Same here.

And NO I have never clicked on an open wireless link.

[somanyholes]

i feel a poll coming on ...


http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2007/11/wi-fi.html

[madasahatter]

nooooooo 3 years off 30 mate, going to make them last 10 years if i can 

that's funny - you were 32 on your last birthday I thought

[madasahatter]

i feel a poll coming on ...


http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2007/11/wi-fi.html

Have to admit that those figures do surprise me - 54% admitting to using someone else's wireless sounds a very high figure to me, but there you go - shows how much I know dunnit? 

[Rik]

that's funny - you were 32 on your last birthday I thought

Well, he didn't say which side of 30...

[somanyholes]

  lol

more than anything i think its curiosity that makes people piggyback, then the need for data.

[madasahatter]

Well, he didn't say which side of 30...

I'm only being naughty to wind him up Rik  

[somanyholes]

i thought hoobs where meant to be nice, obviously got the bad one 

[Inactive]

I suppose it very much depends on where that survey was carried out.

Nobody asked me.

[madasahatter]

i thought hoobs where meant to be nice, obviously got the bad one 

Yep indeedy do 

[madasahatter]

I suppose it very much depends on where that survey was carried out.

Nobody asked me.

That's the thing with any of these surveys though isn't it? They never really tell you anything unless you know where and how they were carried out, were any specific groups targeted, were any particular ages targeted, and what were the actual questions asked. Without all that info (and more) surveys really are pretty useless to be honest as you can't draw any real conclusions from them.

[somanyholes]

is there a poll facility on this site can be user initiated

[somanyholes]

have answered own question, its right in front of me ... sods law

[Inactive]

Not another dreaded Poll.. 

[somanyholes]

sorry in here it is

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6225.msg116349#msg116349

i wonder what your vote will be

[psp83]

My household insurance started off wanting me to have BS 5-lever locks, graduated to a NACOS alarm system, then finally insisted that the alarm was on at nights, even if we are in the house. I'm waiting for the razor wire to become a condition.

How about bricking up every door and window in the house while your inside? 

Some do take it 2 far, just like this wireless cr*p, I haven't read every post but i say its the owners of the routers that are to blame. It comes with a manual, if they aint sure, they should read it.

If you leave your car unlocked theres a 50/50 chance it will get nicked. Same as wireless, if its open theres a 50/50 chance someone is going to use it.

My boss couldn't access the internal server the other day, this was because his laptop connected automatically to the nearest open router which was nextdoors. So are they going to make microsoft to ship laptops with this option disabled?

[Malc]

More fool the 'victim' for not using proper wireless security.   

This worries me, I'm new to this router lark, I just plugged it in and away I went, it's only connected to the one PC ATM, should I have done something else?

[Rik]

i wonder what your vote will be

In doesn't do polls.

[Rik]

This worries me, I'm new to this router lark, I just plugged it in and away I went, it's only connected to the one PC ATM, should I have done something else?

Are you using wireless or just wires, Malc. If the latter, disable wireless in the router setup.

[Rik]

How about bricking up every door and window in the house while your inside? 

A few forum members have suggested that .

[Gary]

In doesn't do polls.

He never gets the moves right when trying to spin on them Rik

[madasahatter]

He never gets the moves right when trying to spin on them Rik

[Malc]

In doesn't do polls.

Rumour has it he dosn't do any Eastern Europeans at all

[Rik]

 

[madasahatter]

Rumour has it he dosn't do any Eastern Europeans at all

[Danni]

To get back on topic slightly  I am glad my laptop has a seperate 3G datacard that I can pull out if the evil evil policey type people ever spot me in a car (most likely Colin's) on the internet on my laptop, rather than getting a laptop with 3G built in (I know they're already available). I just hope they're intelligent enough to know that's how I connect to the internets.

That reminds me- I want my other laptop back from them. And my mobile. Must ask staff to call them for me.

[Rik]

 

You just can't rely on the staff these days, can you Danni.

[Gary]

To get back on topic slightly  I am glad my laptop has a seperate 3G datacard that I can pull out if the evil evil policey type people ever spot me in a car (most likely Colin's) on the internet on my laptop, rather than getting a laptop with 3G built in (I know they're already available). I just hope they're intelligent enough to know that's how I connect to the internets.

That reminds me- I want my other laptop back from them. And my mobile. Must ask staff to call them for me.

Hoping the police are intelligent enough is a big gamble, you have more chance of 

[Rik]

Well, they do have helicopters these days, Gary.

[Gary]

Well, they do have helicopters these days, Gary.

Be great if you could piggyback onto their systems as well, you could have your very own remote controlled police helicopter

[Rik]

Just don't let that girl in the Toyota advert anywhere near the remote control!

[madasahatter]

Haven't seen that Rik - what does she do?

[Gary]

Just don't let that girl in the Toyota advert anywhere near the remote control!