Download speed not up to scratch?

[davej99]

Hi Raz.

Try thinkBB using the port 80 option. Your 40kb(ytes)/s is 320kb(its)ps, I would keep checking for it to get worse then run BTspeedtester. You are trying to get this under 400kbps so you can hit BT with it.

[Raz]

The Netgear logs disconnects, and you can set it to email you the log each day. That way, you'll see the whole pattern and not just what happens when you're using it. You might also want to run Routerstats from http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm. With that running on the PC (try leaving it running for 24 hours, just turn the monitor off when you're not using it). With that, you can see if the line is dropping sync when there's a noise burst, or whether something else is going on.

It does look like you have a badly congested exchange, though, so hopefully it will pick up on Thursday.

Rik are you talking about security logs? I set those up the other day for some reason.

Saturdays

Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:20 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:20 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:30 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:36 - Send out NTP request to 158.43.128.66
Fri, 2008-02-22 18:15:47 - Receive NTP Reply from 158.43.128.66
Fri, 2008-02-22 18:15:11 - Router start up
Fri, 2008-02-22 18:29:31 - Loss of synchronization :1
Fri, 2008-02-22 19:00:02 - Loss of synchronization :2
Fri, 2008-02-22 19:08:32 - Loss of synchronization :3
Fri, 2008-02-22 19:09:32 - Loss of synchronization :4
Fri, 2008-02-22 19:34:32 - Loss of synchronization :5
Fri, 2008-02-22 20:15:33 - Loss of synchronization :6

Sundays

Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:20 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:20 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:30 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:46 - Send out NTP request to 158.43.128.66
Sat, 2008-02-23 17:23:03 - Receive NTP Reply from 158.43.128.66
Sat, 2008-02-23 17:32:07 - Loss of synchronization :1
Sat, 2008-02-23 17:22:17 - Router start up
Sat, 2008-02-23 17:57:37 - Loss of synchronization :2
Sat, 2008-02-23 18:32:08 - Loss of synchronization :3
Sat, 2008-02-23 19:24:39 - Loss of synchronization :4
Sat, 2008-02-23 21:08:41 - Loss of synchronization :5
Sat, 2008-02-23 23:46:59 - LCP down.
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:01:14 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:01:14 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:01:14 - Loss of synchronization :6
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:01:22 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:06:37 - LCP down.
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:12:02 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:12:02 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:12:11 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:12:15 - Loss of synchronization :7
Sun, 2008-02-24 00:20:20 - Administrator login successful - IP:192.168.0.2

Todays

Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:20 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:20 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:27 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:36 - Send out NTP request to 158.43.128.66
Sun, 2008-02-24 14:35:13 - Receive NTP Reply from 158.43.128.66
Sun, 2008-02-24 14:34:37 - Router start up

Mean anything?

Hi Dave. Youre starting to lose me. Whats a port 80 option? and what am i hitting BT with? (im not so bright at this stuff)

[Inactive]

To be honest, it looks like we are going around in circles here, why not just wait til the 28th and see if there is any improvement?.. 

[Rik]

Hi Raz

The entries Loss of synchronisation(x) are the disconnects. You had five on Saturday, from 17:32 to 21:08, plus another couple in the small hours - I wouldn't expect to see more than one in 12-14 days myself. From the look of it, you power down the router at nights?

Try leaving the router on for 24 hours, and leave the computer running routerstats for the same period, then correlate the noise margin against the losses of sync, that may tell us a bit more about what is happening.

I think what Dave is suggesting is to use the TB tester to get an idea of your speed and, when it's low, then doing a BT test. That way, the figures you collect for submission to BT will be bad, strengthening your case for them to do something.

[Raz]

I dont ever turn the router off no. Saturday night was when we were troubleshooting so i was unplugging it, putting it in the main socket, clipping wires etc. Friday i unplugged it and connected wirelessly at IDNet request (thats when i set up the emailed logs). Other than that its always on.

I'll try figuring out routerstats and post the results.

Strangely im pleased these logs are showing so many disconnects... im that used to being told my connection is fine i was starting to think they were a figment of my imagination.

Is any of the info i posted in the logs sensitive info i shouldnt be posting btw? ie ip address or whatever

[Rik]

Hi Raz

The section of entries which read like this:

Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:20 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:20 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:27 - CHAP authentication success
Sun, 2002-09-08 12:00:36 - Send out NTP request to 158.43.128.66
Sun, 2008-02-24 14:35:13 - Receive NTP Reply from 158.43.128.66
Sun, 2008-02-24 14:34:37 - Router start up

are router startups (ie after power has been removed or it has been rebooted). You're showing one for Friday, Saturday and Sunday, which is why I thought you might be powering down at nights. There's no confidential info in the logs, if I'd have seen your IP address, I'd have edited the message.

If those startup times for the router don't coincide with times you know you've done something, I would suggest that you try and borrow an alternative router.

[davej99]

Physician heal thyself; how ironic. I just logged my worst ever BT speed result of 2946 down from 6600 early this morning.

Raz, when you run thinkbroadband speedtester there is a "port 80" box to tick which can help (and a "show detail" as well, which tells how the test is running.

All BT speedtester results are logged at BT automatically. You should try to log a good number of poor results to prove your case, If you can log under 400kbps, and you do have to pick your moment, it is under the established minimum and must be acted on as I understand it.

The problem is the test can only be run every three hours, so I suggest you use another speed tester to pick your moment. It is also difficult to initiate the test at peak times, so you have to keep trying. Print out the test and time and date it. If you do get under 400kbps it will initiate other tests, but they are very hard to get working. Others may know the secret.

In any event running BT test results as often as you can, over as much of the day as you can, is a good idea. Keep a record. This is not about beating up IDNET but about logging accepted data. IDNET can then pursue the matter with BT based on hard facts. I happen to believe IDNET have a very good relationship with BT, as we saw from you email, so good data will assist a win-win outcome.

Broadband technology is fragile and immature and we have to accept that customer, ISP and BT have to each play their part. I have just come from a very, very poor ISP. When provided with BT speedtest data BT played their part and quickly showed the ISP had a serious congestion problem. This was not contested and I terminated. I do not think that will happen with IDNET but it might help show there is an exchange congestion issue. Patience and data is the name of the game.

[Raz]

Fri, 2008-02-22 18:15:11 - Router start up - I think this was when i rang IDnet initially and they had me move the router downstairs to see if the extension was causing the problem.

Sat, 2008-02-23 17:22:17 - Router start up - This is probably when Sebby had me plug the router directly into the socket behind the main faceplate downstairs.

Sun, 2008-02-24 14:34:37 - Router start up - I have no idea why this one happened. I was out between 10am and 3:30pm and the router was left on.

Rik are you saying my router could be faulty? Ive already sent one back (AOL convinced me the first one was faulty, but the replacement showed no improvements)

Oh and again, i cant thank you enough for the time youre taking to help me out here.

[Raz]

Dave, thats interesting to know, thanks.

Ive a feeling ill soon be a broadband expert

[Rik]

Hi Raz

Yes, I do fear the router could be faulty, or the power supply to it (either the brick, the connector at the router end, or the connection it's making in the mains socket). A straightforward loss of sync doesn't trigger a router re-start, that's normally only seen when you reboot the router or the power is removed. Keep an eye out for those entries, if they continue, then I'd suspect the router and trying a substitute, if you can, is the quickest way to eliminate it.

We're glad to help, Raz, it's what the forum is about.

[MoHux]

I haven't read all posts in this thread, so forgive me if it's been covered.

I notice that Raz has come from AOL.  They I believe, used an MTU of 1400.
If his router is set at that it could be what is causing the trouble.

Make sure your router MTU is set to 1500 Raz.

Mo

[Raz]

It was set to 1400 yea, so ive changed it to 1500. Thanks for the tip.

[Sebby]

Has this helped your throughput at all, Raz? Good spot, Mo.

[Raz]

Just tested it, looks about the same to me. D/l speed between 140 and 170 and the bt test below.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 7000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3492 kbps

[Sebby]

No difference. Never mind, BT are looking into it anyway.

[Dopamine]

I've had similar speed problems ever since moving to IDNet. My hardware is fine, my connection is stable, my speed is below what I'd expected at peak times. If I understand correctly, BT will not consider speeds above 400kbps to be worthy of investigation, so although I have many BT Speedtester results in the 2-4mbps range, is there any point me making a complaint?

Most threads here suggest that I should/could see top speeds from IDNet at any time of the day, but I don't. Is this really that unusual?

Here are my BT test results from the last 16 days, all with a 7150 profile, listed in speed order. See how it's usually at its slowest during peak times?:

Time        Speed
17:56       1865
22:20       2075
16:40       2369
21:01       2377
14:43       2461
20:55       2933
17:37       3093
19:10       3953
22:37       4512
17:51       4519
22:22       5016
17:15       5173
21:40       5458
02:22       6297
04:07       6550
02:05       6639
01:14       6682
03:15       6705

I'm more than happy to contact IDNet support, but before doing so would just like to be sure that other users are getting the top speed for their sync irrespective of the time of day.

[Gary]

I have the same speeds and throughput if its midday or midnight, Dopamine, Once once over a period of two days I had throughput drop at 11am but that was last year and put down to exchange work possibly, I have had no issue since  I'll post a BT speedtest tomorrow at midday to show my speed and throughput, as long as I remember 

[Rik]

Hi Dopamine

Collect some BT speed tests and have a word with IDNet, they can take a look at the line and, perhaps, raise it with BT for you.

[Rik]

I notice that Raz has come from AOL.  They I believe, used an MTU of 1400.
If his router is set at that it could be what is causing the trouble.

Good spot, Mo - we've all been staring at the line speeds.

[MoHux]

Thanks NP.  I see he is reporting 'no improvement'.  It may also be a good idea to reboot everything, then test again.

[Rik]

And to check the Windows settings for MTU/RWIN, just in case.

[Raz]

I havent rebooted since yesterday afternoon as ive left routerstats running, so ill do that as soon as i get home and retest.

Rik i dont understand your last comment. How do i check windows settings for MTU/RWIN? What does it all mean anyway?

[Rik]

MTU is maximum transmission unit, the size of the chunks of data to send and receive from the net. Too large and the packets fragment, causing a loss of speed as they have to be resent. Too small and your throughput slows down due to the increased overheads (28 bytes per packet). RWIN is receive window - too small and data has to be sent inefficiently, too large and, if there's an error, a large amount of data has to be resent, again slowing your speeds. Both these figures usually only have a marginal effect, but in extreme cases can be a problem.

There's details on how to check the settings and find the best ones for you here:

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=1904.msg31673#msg31673

[davej99]

.... D/l speed between 140 and 170 and the bt test below. .....

    IP profile for your line is - 7000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3492 kbps

Raz,

How did you measure the download speeds of 140 and 170. Are these measurements in kBytes/sec (file download) or kbBits/s (most speedtesters).

It might be a good idea to summarise the BT results you have with time of day, rather like Dopamine did. The BT data seems to show you have a very good connection. If the line was dropping out a lot, the sync and profile would be much lower. Dopamine's data is very helpful because it shows super speeds in the small hours and slowdown in the evening on a max profile connection. I see a similar slowdown in the early evening and pings go out a good bit.

IDNET say they are uncontended, therefore these results have to be attributable to exchange contention. We know Raz's exchange has a problem. So it may be some of us are seeing exchange congestion and contractually that is not IDNET's responsibility. To be fair they do say clearly "Actual broadband download speeds can vary from below 2 Mbps during peak times, up to a maximum of 7.15 Mbps."

We can as a user group verify that the problem is exchange contention if we have some IDNET users with speeds around 6000 kbps that do not see any slowdown. If some of us report a slowdown and some do not, then the IDNET network as a whole is not at fault. That leaves the possibility of a problem IDNET gateway and we have to trust IDNET to address that.

I was a bit sorry to log a BT speed of 2946kbps last night at 5pm on a connection that delivers 6600 and because I know what a failing ISP looks like I will keep checking. My guess is exchange contention is the cause. At the end of the day we have to trust IDNET to keep its house in order and use its good offices to get the best out of BT. 30 day contracts are as good an incentive as we need. No point in beating them up for what they cannot control. I have been in the fire and I am quite pleased with the frying pan.  

[Raz]

My new filters arrived and are now in place and ive rebooted everything as Mo suggested.

New speedtest

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 7000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4440 kbps

Now it gets interesting. Download speeds from the sites i normally use are still low (between 120 and 180kb/s) however i also ran the download from the site Dave posted yesterday (when i tried it yesterday i got a speed of 40kb/s) and the speed was flying today at between 500 and 600 kb/s. What the heck is that all about?

Dave, the d/l speeds im quoting are just the speeds you see in the d/l box, ie they are kilobytes per sec. Im not converting them to bits as used by the speedtesters.

Rik, i ran routerstats overnight as you suggested. Ive now got loads of graphs saved but dont know how to post them here for you to see. Im not sure theres anything exciting about them anyway. The noise graph bounces up and down between 6 and 11 with 10 being the most common by far (at night the average drops 1 or 2 points thou). At 10am this morning the noise dropped to 0 and at 11ish it dropped to -1. Those were the only unusual movements. The line sync graph stayed constant at just over 8000 throughout the entire period.

I had a quick look at the MTU and RWIN tweak thread - looks a bit scary for me, but i might have a closer look later to see if i can figure it out.