Download speed not up to scratch?

[Sebby]

Hi Raz,

If you don't remove the ring wire from all sockets, it'll have no impact, so at present nothing will have changed.

The noise margin has unfortunately moved in the wrong direction (higher is better), but that's probably down to the fact that night time is more noisy, and so it tends to degrade. Tomorrow morning you'll probably find it has increased again.

I hope this helps.

[Raz]

I got excited there for a minute. What was that noise? Oh yea that was me crashing back down to earth with a bump.

I'll try get that wire from the extension tomorrow when i find a little screwdriver.

Thanks for all the help youve given me today. Its appreciated.

[Rik]

Raz, a pair of side cutters or long nose pliers will also do the job...

We're glad to help, it's what we're here for.

[Inactive]

I'll try get that wire from the extension tomorrow when i find a little screwdriver.

Nail file?? 

[Sebby]

Pleasure. Let us know how you get on.

Your sync is very decent, and the profile is correct. Unless it's errors that are to blame (I think unlikely) removing the ring wire isn't going to help your throughput (though it may allow you to achieve full sync in the long term). You'll still need to get onto IDNet, I'd imagine.

[Raz]

Nail clippers... now why didnt i think of that.

New stats with wire upstairs clipped.

System Up Time 16:58:07
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 508 460 0 1302 1781 00:01:31
LAN 10M/100M 37689 34434 0 401 117 16:58:03
WLAN 11M/54M 1338 18 0 6 0 16:57:52


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 38 db 11 db
Noise Margin 9 db 25 db

Speedtest

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 6000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4651 kbps

Actual dowload speeds are still between 150-200 though. Im guessing the improved test results are mainly due to the time of day?

Anyway, ive emailed IDnet support asking for help and have pointed them to this thread. Ive ordered new filters just in case thats causing a problem. I guess i just sit tight now and hope IDnet can sort me out.

Thanks again guys.

[Rik]

Curiously, your attenuation has gone up 1db, Raz, but your noise margin has increased by 2db, which is good - as you sync at 8128, a bigger noise margin indicates you have more headroom. Clearly, the profile needs to adjust still, but there is something else going on, so IDNet will test the line and take it from there. Let us know what happens will you?

[Sebby]

As far as the stats go, everything is fine, and you're now getting full sync with the ring wires removed. In 3-5 days, the profile should update to match this new sync (7,150k).

But, even for your current profile, the download speed is still looking a bit on the low side, and I suspect it'll be lower tonight too (in line with what you've been experiencing to date).

So, the foundations are laid for the best speed possible, if you like, but there's something strange happening that's limiting your throughput, and this is one for IDNet.

[Raz]

I recieved this email from IDnet support today:

Hi Dave

In light of your actual throughput being so low verus your sync rate and IP profile I had a chat with the specialist helpdesk within BT to have a look at your line.

The first thing he picked up on was your IP profile was about 1mb out from your sync rate, so has put something in place to get that more in line which with any luck should improve the situation overall.

On checking the utilisation for your exchange, whilst it's not massively over contended what was mentioned was you have overall 25mb of bandwidth at the exchange with up to 700 users trying to get some over that at any given time. This would explain your low throughput despite good stats otherwise.

The exchange status isn't at it's peak utilisation just yet but appears to be heading that way and as soon as it does get to peak utilisation obviously BT will upgrade the exchange - as I've witnessed in previous cases.

So in conclusion with the help of BT it's been recognised as a contention issue which should be resolved the next time the exchange is upgraded

Im not sure i understand it. Didnt we already correct the IP profile being 1k out from the sync rate when i removed the ring wires? Also, my exchange has just been upgraded (less than 6 months ago) according to AOL. It was the upgrade that started all the slow download speeds afaik. If the entire Goole exchange are experiencing the same speeds as me due to excess demand on the exchange, i guess thats something i can easily check, but in no way are my frequent disconnects because of strain on the exchange. I have a friend down the same street on a basic broadband package with BT and he never suffers disconnections.

I feel a bit fobbed off but would appreciate your comments before i give them a ring back, as i really dont understand most of this.

Heres my latest stats etc from 20 mins ago.

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 188001 254058 0 225 2471 22:55:12
LAN 10M/100M 247365 189304 0 2512 279 22:55:36
WLAN 11M/54M 1432 0 0 5 0 22:55:25


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 38 db 11 db
Noise Margin 10 db 25 db

IP profile for your line is - 7000 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3642 kbps

I downloaded something this morning at around 150kb/s. Right now im downloading at a miserable 90kb/s

[Gary]

When you say AOL said your exchange was upgraded earlier did they mean it was upgraded to a LLU? That means companies put their own equipment in rather that it just being BT lines only, I would tend to believe IDNet over AOL any day, without going through all the posts where is your exchange if you don't mind me asking? That way maybe we can look up to see if that was what AOL meant and it ties in with the time you contacted them, rather than what IDNet mean as in the exchange will be upgraded due to contention issues which would be completely different you see.

[Raz]

The exchange is at Goole. I dont know what a LLU is - AOL told me it was upgraded to 8mb from ?? around Oct/Nov last year at a guess. I remember having connection issues at the time of the upgrade and getting an email from AOL telling me it was normal while the exchange was upgraded, but should settle down in a few days. Trouble was, mine never did. I got speeds of 30ish kb/s for a long time after that and all the while AOL kept telling me that my line was fine - nothing they could do. Finally they acknowledged that there was a fault on my line and fixed it. I recieved good speeds (450ish) for a few days then it settled back down to 150ish and has stayed there ever since.

[Gary]

Your exchange was adsl max enabled which is what you are using now on the 31/03/2006 so I think AOL meant they put their equipment in on the dates you spoke to them, LLU is their own equipment to enable their own service without using BT's stuff so its not the same as the upgrade IDNet are talking about, you can see the information here. http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange.php?ecode=MYGOO Talk talk put their equipment in around October and since they took over AOL this is what they meant I would imagine, what IDNet have told you is all to do with the BT side of the exchange, and nothing to do with what AOL told you

[Gary]

If you look here http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/ you will see your exchange is listed as red which is congested  BT is reporting that some of the virtual paths at this exchange are not operating within BT Wholesale's planning guidance, although they are still operating within the product specification.

At busy times, your ADSL connection may operate at a reduced speed, although not all customers on your exchange may be affected. You should only contact support if there is no current ETA date set.

The ETA fix time is: 28 Feb 08 but that fix date can vary as its BT doing the work

[Raz]

Thanks for digging this up for me. Im still not convinced this is my problem though. It says "at busy times i might experience reduced speeds". Ive been experiencing them constantly for months. Also the disconnects seem to be unique to me, not a problem with the exchange. At least it looks like some sort of fix to the congestion coming on or around 28 Feb.

[Gary]

Well your exchange has been red for a while so it would make sense, also what is written and how your exchange behaves can vary if you have lots of users trying to get on at any time of day its going to happen, so its BT's issue not IDNets as you can see, and a fix is on the way so hold tight and it should get better

Exchange status
red     04 Feb 08    
red    21 Jan 08    
red    07 Jan 08    
red    31 Dec 07    
red    24 Dec 07

[Rik]

I feel a bit fobbed off but would appreciate your comments before i give them a ring back, as i really dont understand most of this.

I'm not sure why, Raz. IDNet have spotted the issue, raised it with BT and got an assurance it will be resolved. The element between you and the exchange is completely in BT's hands, and all IDNet, or any ISP, can do is pursue the matter with them, which they have. Until BT do the next upgrade, there is no instant fix.

Did you mention the disconnections to IDNet?

I agree with Gary that AOL (Talk Talk) were talking about LLU equipment, which is no longer relevant as you are on BT equipment.

[davej99]

Forgive me if my intervention is daft. Do we have any recent BT test results that are really really bad or is it just file download that is the problem? The last two BT results posted were 3642 today and 4651 yesterday - tolerable if over contended. This does not stack up with the 150 and 90kb/s that straddle the last test today. Surely BT have to address the problem if it is that bad and it can be proved using a BT result. (Take it that is bits not bytes btw, or a dodgy speedtester or server).

[Raz]

I'm not sure why, Raz. IDNet have spotted the issue, raised it with BT and got an assurance it will be resolved. The element between you and the exchange is completely in BT's hands, and all IDNet, or any ISP, can do is pursue the matter with them, which they have. Until BT do the next upgrade, there is no instant fix.

Did you mention the disconnections to IDNet?

I agree with Gary that AOL (Talk Talk) were talking about LLU equipment, which is no longer relevant as you are on BT equipment.

I guess ive just had these problems too long and am still scarred by the AOL CS experience. If congestion is the problem and a fix comes my way around Feb 28th ill be thrilled. The only thing that bothers me is that noone ive talked to in my area have had similar problems. Id have thought half of Goole would be in uproar if they'd had similar experiences.

I mentioned the disconnects to IDNet initially but not specifically in my email - though i did point them to this thread. I have to admit they havent been as frequent since i switched, Saturday night was the last one i noticed. The disconnects are strange though, i can be fine for awhile then out of nowhere get disconnects every half hour or so for days on end. It really is quite random so all i can do is keep an eye on it.

[Rik]

Forgive me if my intervention is daft. Do we have any recent BT test results that are really really bad or is it just file download that is the problem? The last two BT results posted were 3642 today and 4651 yesterday - tolerable if over contended. This does not stack up with the 150 and 90kb/s that straddle the last test today. Surely BT have to address the problem if it is that bad and it can be proved using a BT result. (Take it that is bits not bytes btw, or a dodgy speedtester or server).

That's the problem, Dave, the BT tests are poor, but not outside their standards. Nothing else is accepted by BT as proof of speed, with some justification, as outside factors come into play, eg the host server is heavily loaded.

[Rik]

I guess ive just had these problems too long and am still scarred by the AOL CS experience.

IDNet's a different company, Raz, and they will not fob you off. However, as with any ISP using the BT IPStream service, they can do nothing directly about the link from you to the exchange unless there's a fault. Congestion is entirely in BT's hands. That said, if you are the only one affected, and you are having frequent disconnections, it could be evidence of a line or equipment fault. However, that includes all your internal phone wiring, filters and router, so you need to be sure you have eliminated them as the problem before asking IDNet to get an engineer out as it will cost your £160+ if they do and he/she finds the fault to be on your side of the master socket.

One thing I'm not 100% clear on. When you talk about disconnections, you are talking about the router losing the connection to the exchange and not you losing wireless connection to the router aren't you?

[Raz]

Rik, i hear what youre saying, i guess im being somewhat impatient. Best thing i can do is wait until i get these new filters which eliminates another possibility, wait until the Goole exchange is upgraded around the 28th and then see how my performance is. If its still too slow ill scream for help again.

My router is connected to the pc by cable, i dont connect wirelessly. All i know is the little green i on the router turns orange and flashes for awhile, i lose my connection then after a minute or so it turns green again and i get the connection back. I guess that means i lost connection to the exchange?

After reading dave's post i ran a test with speedtest.net which threw out a suprisingly low speed of 1306. Ive ran tests from there before and its always been really high /shrug

[Rik]

These disconnection are puzzling me, I'd expect the dynamic line management software to be trying to stabilise the line by increasing the target noise margin and, thereby, reducing speed, but that doesn't seem to he happening.

It might be worth asking IDNet how many re-connections they can see from their end.

[davej99]

I have correlated http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html with BT and it is close enough to pick the moment to run the BT Test and get a bad result. Otherwise the three hour limit makes it hard to hit the low point.

The fact that today 150kb/s and 90 kb/s is straddling BT of 3642kbps makes the low results suspect. That certainly needs cross checking with think broadband and I suggest http://st.tstools.co.uk/ as well. I find both more reliable than Speedtest.net which uses a very small download.

I also use http://static.btopenworld.com/broadband/adhoc_pages/speedtest/files/largedownload.me to initiate a big download to see how file download is working for a relatively quiet site. Remember to times by 8 to convert Bytes on file download to bits on speed test.

[Raz]

These disconnection are puzzling me, I'd expect the dynamic line management software to be trying to stabilise the line by increasing the target noise margin and, thereby, reducing speed, but that doesn't seem to he happening.

It might be worth asking IDNet how many re-connections they can see from their end.

I disconnected alot last Tuesday night, but that correlates to the problems in Sebbys post here http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6185.0

When i first talked with IDNet support they said they could see those d/c's at their end. I remember d/c'ing again on Wednesday but IDNet told me they didnt see that one. The next d/c i remember was Saturday night. I havent asked them about that, but in light of the fact that they arent nearly as bad as they have been in the past (the disconnects) ill keep monitoring it. Maybe the bit of troubleshooting we did on Saturday night will have helped? I'll start keeping a log of any future disconnects incase it gets bad again.


Thinkbroadband test:

Date 25/02/08 16:31:51
Speed Down 828.66 Kbps ( 0.8 Mbps )
Speed Up 371.99 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk


Download speed from the link dave supplied was 40kb/s... its getting worse, im now fairly certain im cursed.

[Rik]

The Netgear logs disconnects, and you can set it to email you the log each day. That way, you'll see the whole pattern and not just what happens when you're using it. You might also want to run Routerstats from http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/internet/files.htm. With that running on the PC (try leaving it running for 24 hours, just turn the monitor off when you're not using it). With that, you can see if the line is dropping sync when there's a noise burst, or whether something else is going on.

It does look like you have a badly congested exchange, though, so hopefully it will pick up on Thursday.