Hmmmmmmm ........very inconsistent speeds for me lately !!

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

The speed ive been getting has been fluctuating quite a bit , from a rock solid 6.5MB right down to a krappy 2.9MB  .

Ive got my trusty DLink router up and running and connection hasnt had any interruptions in 220 hours and is 8128 sync with 7150k IP profile. Speedtest I just ran gave me a ho hum
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4933 kbps

when Im used to pretty unshakeable 6750k all day long.

Congestion indicator shows my exchange is green and uncongested, these up and down speeds have been happening for about the last week, is there anything else that could be contributory ? I know BT were scheduled to work on DSLAM`s but surely that wouldnt last for a week.

James

[Sebby]

There's nothing obviously wrong, James, as I'm sure you know. It might be worth dropping support an email or giving them a call on the off chance that there is something wrong, but I suspect it's a case of exchange congestion (even though your exchange is currently green). There does seem to be a fair bit of this happening at the moment, and if IDNet can see no problem, I'm afraid you'll just have to sit tight and wait for BT to get their act together.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

have there been others whose solid as a rock download throughput has been yo-yo`ing around as well ?

James

[Sebby]

Yes there have, James, quite a few. 

[Dopamine]

Similar problems here too, although I've only been with IDNet since beginning of Feb. 8128 sync for over 700 hours, 7150 profile, speeds never have been very good, but fluctuate even more wildly in the last week or so. BT Speedtester results for the last 12 days have averaged just over 2mbps.

IDNet say it's BT congestion, but I've no way of knowing if this is really the case as my exchange is showing green too. (can't remember the site I used for the congestion indicator - I followed a link in another thread somewhere)

It's all extremely frustrating, because although I'm not a big downloader, when I do download I want it at a faster rate than 2mbps, which at present is only possible in the middle of the night.

[Sebby]

Of course you're right that we can only take IDNet's word for it in some ways, but you have to think that if it was an IDNet issue everyone would be experiencing it (or certainly everyone on a particular gateway), which is definitely not the case.

I'm on a 4000k profile, and a speedtest performed just now shows that I'm getting the maximum throughput possible. And that's always the case, whenever I do it. I can't be 100% certain, but I think it is BT, possibly to do with 21CN preparations.

[Dopamine]

This is the great shame of this whole internet "speed" issue in this country. There is so much dishonesty amongst some of the big ISPs that it taints everyone, which I'm sure is unfair to those like IDNet, who in my somewhat limited experience have bent over backwards to help me.

My view has been coloured by being repeatedly lied to, first by Pipex, then Tiscali, and BT throughout when trying to sort problems for my family.

If the network is congested to the point that 2mbps is all that can reliably be given to us, I would be happy to accept that if it were explained to me, but all of us as consumers are being promised the earth, and few are getting it. What we need is an advertising watchdog with some teeth, rather than the useless ASA we have at present.

Oh well, I should probably be pleased with my 2mbps. At least I can get broadband. Large sections of the UK still struggle to better 200kbps!

[Sebby]

You're absolutely right. At Pipex or Tiscali, every user gets appalling speeds all the time, and they tell you it's not them. Like you say, IDNet do not seem to be a dishonest ISP and do everything they can (sometimes more than would be reasonably expected of a company) for their customers. If they say it's BT, I know I'd believe them.

I'm sure it's very frustrating for you, especially with full sync, and I guess it's quite frustrating for IDNet at times being held back by BT.

[kinmel]

I read in the The Sunday Times today that the BT infrastructure is being stressed by the sudden popularity of BBC iPlayer, Channel 4 DOD and Sky anytime. Iplayer has seen 17million new users and some ISps claim there has been a 60% increase in internet traffic because of it.

This could be why many people are now suffering contention at their exchange even though Bt still show exchanges as being "Green"

[Sebby]

Interesting. That could well be it. 

[Lance]

Not forgetting the exchange data is often a week or two old!

[Sebby]

That's also true, Lance. And it's provided by BT... 

[Lance]

I couldn't possibly comment! 

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

I have sent this mail to support, something is clearly wrong.


http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=post;topic=6717.0;num_replies=11

my account is XXXXXXXXX@idnet.gw5

The link above shows that the speed variation and fluctuation is being felt by IDNet customers at this time where it didnt exist before.

there simply has to  be a significant contributory factor which is leading to most uncharacteristic download throughput . in my instance I am receiving between  2.9MB and 5MB on my 8MB Home Max package with  no continuity , one moment its up , the next, significantly down and so on.

Im very used to receiving solid as a rock 6.2MB - 6.5MB irregardless of the time of day. Please read the link above and give me idnet`s official view by return mail.

If there is nothing apparent showing on your internal systems at idnet, is it possible that you could liase with british telecom to establish exactly what is going on and relay such information obtained back to myself by email or if it is lengthy , by home telephone., I am aware that the projected by BT completion date at XXXXXXXX Exchange for work on 21CN is early 2009.

I await your timely response with anticipation.

Thankyou

James XXXXXXXXXX



I think this query should be followed up, we pay for a premium service , so its sit back and lets see what IDNet have to say. Watch this space guys.

James

[Sebby]

Don't get your hopes up too much, James, as I know several people have had this issue and it has been down to BT. Unfortunately, IDNet can't get BT to do anything about congestion. But good luck anyway. 

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

All the proof I need that something aint right is , its 11.30pm and take a look at this for a speedtest result

Speed Test Results
Date 09/03/08 23:32:44
Speed Down 2720.19 Kbps ( 2.7 Mbps )
Speed Up 372.09 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk

Previously it would have been 6,5MB all the way, a drop of 3.8MB is way too much of a hit.

James

[Sebby]

No one's saying something's not right, James. I'm just trying to make you aware that if it's a BT congestion issue there's nothing IDNet can do.

[Simon]

I think IDNet are somewhat caught between a rock and a hard place.  We pay them for the service, so it follows that if there's a problem with that service, they should sort it, but they depend on BT, so if BT won't play ball, it puts IDNet, or any ISP in a similar situation, in a difficult position.  One grain of hope is that IDNet do seem to have a very good relationship with the right techies at BT, so they may have a better chance of getting something sorted than some other ISPs, but as Sebby said, don't get your hopes up too much, James, as they can only do what they can do. 

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

isnt part of idnet`s advertising that they guarantee no contention across their network ?

James

[Sebby]

And they adhere to that. The congestion is in BT's network.

[Simon]

isnt part of idnet`s advertising that they guarantee no contention across their network ?

James

Across their networks, yes, but they can't control BT's networks.  Or what Sebby said. 

We're not trying to defend IDNet here, James, and I'm sure if there is a fault somewhere 'at their end', they will do all they can to fix it.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

"The congestion is in BT's network."

Abandon all hope just flashed across my mind

Always look on the bright side of life........de doot....de doot de doot de doot......

James

[plugwash]

Apparently if you are on a product based on bt wholesale max premium your traffic gets priority in the BT network. It may be worth considering migrating to one (the cheapest IDNET package that uses BT wholesale adsl max premium is home supermax.

[Sebby]

That's true, but it doesn't guarantee no congestion.

[Rik]

No, it doesn't, and recent reports suggest that congestion is affecting SuperMax too. As long as BT own the link from the exchange, plus the backhaul, every ISP has the same problem. It doesn't help that BT now say that speeds may be as low as 2Mbps at peak times (which are undefined, of course).

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

jeez rik, are we staring at the end of un-restrained idnet ?

James

[Rik]

Hopefully, no, James. The work BT are doing at the moment is to enhance their side of the network and includes new fibre. I'm hoping that, just for once, they are attempting to meet demand, not play catch up.

[Sebby]

No. IDNet's network is fine.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

.........slotting business head into place..............worzel gummidge style.........

If I were whispering in Simon Davies` ear, id be saying "buy YOUR OWN lines " and 100% control, talk about securing your company in an ISP future where fleet street style car congestion isnt a probability.......its gonna darned well happen whether we like it or not.

James........................taking business head off

[Rik]

You've got to be very big to go down the LLU route, James, which is why only people like Tiscali, CWP and O2/Be have done it. Sadly.

[Sebby]

That means LLU, which is costly. They'd have to change their business model and become a large ISP.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

makes ya wonder how krap phone warehouse and tiscali make such a horses backside of the whole LLU operation though rik.

James

[Sebby]

It does.

[Rik]

Simple. They don't care about quality, they tie people in with long contracts and then cram them onto too little capacity. The best of the LLUs is Be followed by Sky.

[Steve]

I have never had consistent speeds on maxdsl,low speeds for myself  are predictable at peak times. I was previously with Pipex and moved over to Idnet recently. My hopes were that the very slow D/L speeds that I began to see during the last few months would be eliminated, I think to a greater extent that these have been fulfilled. You can see from the graphs that I still have a wide variation in D/L speeds. Since I migrated on the 22 February my D/L speeds are consistently higher with the troughs not as severe (BT profile 6500K). The causes of this variation I think are purely down to exchange congestion.

[Rik]

Sadly, that's likely to be the case and, unless Ofcom decide to address the issue, we are all - customers and ISPs alike - at the mercy of BT.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

Speed Test Results
Date 10/03/08 12:27:51
Speed Down 6473.87 Kbps ( 6.3 Mbps )
Speed Up 371.94 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk


and back to a decent speed once more....................

havent had a reply from support yet, hopefully they are taking a look into the situation.

James

[davej99]

I am just coming up to a month with IDNET and I have had no problems. On the other hand I have gone to great lengths to prove my hardware, optimize TCP settings, monitor router stats, especially noise, and set up my house phone wiring and filtration in-line with the received wisdom, much of which is posted here by Rik. I have done my bit.

I am 2.4km street distance from the exchange and enjoy maximum connection and profile speeds with no drop outs. So BT have done their bit.

I have been monitoring download speeds using BT speedtester and occasionally see some slow down from a maximum of 6700 to the 5000's and very occasionally to the 4000's. Statistically I am hard pushed to find a pattern. I cannot say that I have been impacted by the speed variations I have seen and I do not think I have a case for complaint to IDNET.  ADSL max is a contended product and the company says download speeds can vary from below 2 Mbps, during peak times, up to a maximum of 7.15 Mbps. So one has to be reasonable and have real world expectations. I know what ISP congestion is like and I have no evidence of it with IDNET.

Tech support seems to spend most of its time hand-holding user-side problems, diagnosing line faults for BT and pursuing exchange contention problems.

In short I think IDNET do their bit too and it is best not to complain about what they cannot control. Why spoil a good relationship?

[Rik]

Well said, Dave.

[Dopamine]

I can't agree with Dave or Rik. I'm certainly not blaming IDNet, but I pay them for a service, and if BT cause IDNet to be unable to provide me with that service, then I expect IDNet to act as my agent and pass along my complaint, and hopefully put some pressure on BT too.

This "better keep quiet" attitude to perfectly valid complaints is one of the reasons our national broadband system is as poor as it is.

It's becoming increasingly apparent that speeds consistently above 2 or 3mbps cannot be provided across the board. That may be nobody's fault, just a simple fact that will only be rectified by investment in infrastructure. In that case, BT and all other ISPs need to make it very much clearer in their advertising.

[Rik]

From the IDNet website, the 'packages page':

"*Please note:

The maximum broadband speeds that your line can support are determined by the equipment at the exchange within the first 10 days of service.

Broadband speeds are affected by your proximity to your local telephone exchange and the quality of your phone line.

Actual broadband download speeds can vary from below 2 Mbps during peak times, up to a maximum of 7.15 Mbps."

All I think Dave and I are saying is that there are elements of the ADSL supply which are outside the control of IDNet and about which they cannot complain to BT. A more productive channel for complaints might be Ofcom.

[RA-1972]

I think it all depends where you live and how many peeps are connected to the exchange . I have had great speeds with idnet , so where you live must have some thing to do with it ? may be .



Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6550 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

This was at 18.40 tonight .

[Rik]

You're right, it's all about exchange congestion, and BT cover themselves on that. To be fair, IDNet are one of the few ISPs I have seen to declare the possible speed restraint. For myself, I've never seen a restriction.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

I received a reply from miriam at support this afternoon. When I got home from work , I speedtested my pc and it was a solid 6.3MB.

I went out to do the shopping with my wife and kids tonight and got back home about 20.20 and ran this test

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1910 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.


What a pile of rubbish !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is not the IDNet I know................no way 

James

[Lance]

Hmmm. Middle of peak period and you've a slow speed. Certainly looks like BT congestion at your exchange to me. It's unfortunate that no matter how much IDNet shout and complain, it won't make BT move any quicker.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

move any quicker to do what Lance ?

James

[Lance]

To expand the capacity and VPs at the exchange, James. 

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

what puzzles me no end lance is that when I joined IDNet in Nov 07 and right up until about the last 10 days , I could have used my pc anytime and bet my shirt on a connection circa 6.5MB

what i am seeing now is as if somebody realised that the congestion switch was turned OFF and now its been switched ON and memories a la talk talk , i.e good speeds when everybody else is in bed and naff to bleedin atrocious for the rest of the day.

i thought joining IDNet had gotten me out of this situation , how could such a marked deterioriation occur within such a short time scale ? Even the solid as a rock BE are experiencing similar carry on to what I am.

James

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

Lance says " To expand the capacity and VPs at the exchange, James"

In miriams email she says "The fluctuation will be down to congestion on the BT network but not
necessarily related to your exchange. A contact in BT has confirmed your
VP is currently at 38% utilization so is not yet due for regrade."


38% does not suggest a swamped BT exchange to me Lance.

James

[Lance]

It is possible, James, that BT have had a hardware problem at the exchange or have had issues with their fibre, meaning that they have had to juggle with the users and fit them in a smaller space - causing the problems you have.

Alternatively, they may have added more hardware and, in turn, users, causing more contention accross the existing fibre from the exchange.

It's annoying, I know. Not long after I joined IDNet my exchange became congested and it took BT 4 weeks to do anything about it.

[Lance]

Hopefully BT will sort out the contention, where ever it is!

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

" It's annoying, I know. Not long after I joined IDNet my exchange became congested and it took BT 4 weeks to do anything about it. "


Was this after an outcry from BT users or do they internal monitoring to identify when an exchange becomes snowed under, but I draw your attention to BT confirmation that my exchange is only 38% utilised.

James

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

another piece of the equation which doesnt add up to BT congestion is as follows

Results for exchange: **********Congestion
Congestion status on this exchange is  GREEN.

Your telephone line is on an un-congested exchange.

Major Service Outages
There are no Major Service Outages on your line at this present time


Something just does not add up here.

James

[Lance]

They must use internal monitoring. It just seems that they are taking reactive action, rather than preventive, and they take as long as they want to do it.

Whilst your VP may only be 38% utilised, the ATM switch, or the BT backhaul (both of which carry the traffic for all the virtual paths at your exchange) may be congested. Take a look at the diagram here

[Lance]

another piece of the equation which doesnt add up to BT congestion is as follows

Results for exchange: **********Congestion
Congestion status on this exchange is  GREEN.

Your telephone line is on an un-congested exchange.

Major Service Outages
There are no Major Service Outages on your line at this present time


Something just does not add up here.

James

Does it say when this was updated? It may be a couple of weeks old. Plus BT haven't always been the most honest when it comes to report the exchange status. I had problems at least one week before they changed the status to red.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

and on the route back upwards we go

Speed Test Results
Date 10/03/08 22:21:20
Speed Down 6004.33 Kbps ( 5.9 Mbps )
Speed Up 372.06 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port 8095
Server speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk

seems to be a "smile" curve thang going on at the minute, top dollar at start of day, rolling off during the late afternoon to a trough and as the night wears on, back up once more.

Only reason I notice it is cos I never had it before with this ISP.

James

[kinmel]

The current contention is not confined to individual exchanges, the BT backbone is not capable of handling all the new data being fed to it by P2P applications like Iplayer.

This problem is affecting all ISPs, including the LLUs, and is not going to go away any-time soon unless BT et al stop P2P from accessing their networks and that is not going to happen.

People who move around different ISPs trying to escape this problem are just chasing their tails.

[Rik]

"The fluctuation will be down to congestion on the BT network but not
necessarily related to your exchange."

It sounds like you are in urgent need of the work BT are doing across their network, James. The problem for all of us is we have to go through BT to reach iDNet.

[davej99]

You read the small print and pay your money. The only commitment needed from an ISP is a thirty day contract. Disappoint your customers and you are out of business.

[davej99]

Based on the last stats I saw BT Wholesale provide about 73% of non-cable broadband connections and the rest are LLU. (About 35% are BT Broadband and 38% are ISP's like IDNET). That is a lot of market share to prejudice by allowing contention to get out of hand, especially when LLU and maybe cable is threatening. BTw certainly have an incentive to address contention to keep market share and stay in business.

The two threats to the LLU sector, and benefits to firms like IDNET, are 21CN roll-out and the end of high BTw pricing. Cable, about the same size as LLU, would like to threaten from under its debt mountain, but at least it provides a competitive dimension, which taken with LLU, may persuade the regulator to let the gloves off. It's all to play for.

Aren't 30 day contacts wonderful?

[kinmel]

Aren't 30 day contacts wonderful?

The problem for many people is the lack of LLUs at their own exchange.

My own choices are any ISP with BTw, or Talktalk LLU.


That's a no-brainer - So IDNet's 30 day contract offers me no useable options to avoid this current BT network contention.

Peeps need to remember that ADSL has always been a BT contended product and that is now becoming apparent.

We know that in the past IDNet have always upgraded their own infrastructure ahead of problems and I believe they are still doing so.

But of course everyone is entitled to find their own coping mechanism for dealing with the new problem and no doubt some will just keep moving around BTw ISPs.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

I telephoned local BT technical support this afternoon and outlined the situation ive been describing as this thread has progressed.

When I told the techie that BT had confirmed that the exchange were I live is 38% utilised, he said there is no possibility that the congestion therefore lies with BT and it has to be IDNET servers that are causing the slowdown and he advised me to take the matter up with IDNet.

You reckon this is a BT brush off or does he have any point ?

James

[Rik]

If he had a point, James, I'd expect this place and TB to be full of people complaining. We're only seeing isolated problems, though.

You also have to question whether he considered the BT network, as well as the exchange.

[Lance]

Like Rik says, if the congestion was on IDNet's network, you would be guaranteed to have more people complaining. It's a BT brush-off I'm afraid.

[plugwash]

Based on the last stats I saw BT Wholesale provide about 73% of non-cable broadband connections and the rest are LLU. (About 35% are BT Broadband and 38% are ISP's like IDNET). That is a lot of market share to prejudice by allowing contention to get out of hand, especially when LLU and maybe cable is threatening. BTw certainly have an incentive to address contention to keep market share and stay in business.

Sky only seem interested in selling bundles, easynet don't seem interested in selling to consumers at all nor even telling me who thier resellers are. I'm know tiscali are worse than BT wholesale and i'm pretty sure talktalk are too. AOL have a reputation for not letting people quit. That covers all the LLU providers at my exchange.

Fact is the majority of the LLU providers are competing on price not performance and as such I really don't think this congestion will hurt BT that much.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

hey rik, bang on the 300 hours and the ole ar7 chipset gave the stale session, i disconnected and powered up again and got this

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 7150 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6559 kbps


at least my ip profile didnt drop to 6500k, gotta ge grateful for small mercies dude 

James

[Rik]

These days we do, James. The pattern of people experiencing varying speeds doesn't establish a direct cause, but all the indications are that it's BT capacity and, of course, they are now focussing on 21CN, so it might not get better in a hurry.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

forgive me for being a tad off topic rik, but if i got a 2wire 2700 hgv from ebay that was bt branded, is it easy to unlock them ?

james

[Rik]

Yes. They either come with SBC firmware, or you simply use the DNS poisoning technique, which is detailed in the sticky in the 2700 board.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BT-Business-Hub-2WIRE-2700HGV-Wireless-Router_W0QQitemZ200206957010QQihZ010QQcategoryZ91356QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


rik, i have bought this and there is 1 left, its the dual ssid type too , is this the router thats going down very well with idnetters ?

james

[Rik]

That's the one. It will require poisoning.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

how do you do that rik ?

[Rik]

Take a look at Alan's post, it takes you through the whole setup process.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

rik , alans guide has this line for dual ssid type

7 DNS Poisoning. -

DNS Poisoning is not necessary with the Daul SSID version, however if you wish to do so anyway, follow this proceedure:-


why do you suggest it needs done ?

james

[Rik]

On the same grounds that I make multiple backups, James.

[kinmel]

rik , alans guide has this line for dual ssid type

7 DNS Poisoning. -

DNS Poisoning is not necessary with the Daul SSID version, however if you wish to do so anyway, follow this proceedure:-


why do you suggest it needs done ?

james

The DNS poisoning was introduced on the SBC firmware hack to prevent the bios from being reset to the BT version, although there was no evidence that this had ever happened.

The dual SSID version ignores the DNS Resolve list when performing maintenance and the DNS poisoning is therefore pointless.

However I am by nature a coward and so left the poisoning option in the guide.

I have set up a number of the Dual SSID 2700HGVs and have not done DNS poisoning on any of them.

Following the guide, you can have a 2700 up and running in 5 minutes and then leave it to get on with it.

[Rik]

So, effectively, Alan, the dual SSID is no longer locked to the BT network?

[kinmel]

BT now retail the Dual SSID 2700HGV and must therefore expect buyers to use them with other ISPs.

The Setup Wizard seems to have been designed to allow the router to be set up very easily for use with any ISP; they could have made it very difficult to do that if they had wanted to.

Anyway I don't imagine they see the small number of 2700s in use elsewhere to be worth them spending money on to lock us out.

All the Dual SSIDs I have seen so far have had their BIOS updated automatically after installation without any detrimental effect.

[Rik]

Thanks, Alan. As I'm on a single SSID, SBC model, it helps to know that.

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

in the package it says it includes copy installation cd

do you need that , alans instructions say you just connect up and configure.

james

[Rik]

You don't need the CD, just connect via ethernet and follow Alan's instructions. The only time to get the CD out is if you ever want to connect via USB.