Router or line problems

[Glenn]

I came home yesterday evening after spending the weekend in Cornwall for my mothers 80th birthday. Whislt catching up on the things going on in the virtual world I lost connection for a few minutes, I have just checked the logs and I find that since the 4th Match it has lost DSL connection 10 times, I rebooted the router this morning before I left for work 6.30, at 7.11 it lost connection again. I feel that it is a problem with the line, would you agree?

Below is the log.

INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:53  sys:  Set system clock: 2008/03/04 08:09:13 GMT
INF  2008-03-04T08:20:49Z  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF  2008-03-04T16:20:56Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-05T00:26:40Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-07T10:10:02Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-07T18:15:50Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-07T19:23:01Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-08T03:28:43Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-09T10:32:34Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-09T10:32:56Z  sys:  ppp0: Up with ipv4 service on pppoa0
INF  2008-03-09T20:30:32Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-09T20:30:55Z  sys:  ppp0: Up with ipv4 service on pppoa0
INF  2008-03-09T20:35:13Z  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF  2008-03-09T21:41:34Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-09T21:41:56Z  sys:  ppp0: Up with ipv4 service on pppoa0
INF  2008-03-10T06:14:24Z  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF  2008-03-10T06:32:05Z  sys:  dnstest0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:13  sys:  System started
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:30  sys:  Wireless SSID set to WRRacing
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:30  sys:  Wireless authentication set to WPA-PSK
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:30  sys:  Wireless encryption set to TKIP
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:30  sys:  Wireless channel set to 1
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:30  sys:  Wireless power set to 25
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:30  sys:  ipnet1: Up on bridge0 with 192.168.0.254/24
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:31  sys:  ipnet15: Up on bridge14 with 192.168.178.254/24192.168.178.254
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:31  sys:  DNS up DNS1:0.0.0.0, DNS2:0.0.0.0
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:52  sys:  ppp0: Up with ipv4 service on pppoa0
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:52  sys:  ipnet0: Up on ppp0 with 212.69.52.233/32212.69.63.55
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:52  sys:  DNS up DNS1:0.0.0.0, DNS2:0.0.0.0
INF  P0000-00-00T00:00:53  sys:  Set system clock: 2008/03/10 06:33:30 GMT
INF  2008-03-10T06:34:04Z  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page
INF  2008-03-10T07:11:55Z  sys:  dsl0: connection lost, reconnecting...
INF  2008-03-10T07:12:18Z  sys:  ppp0: Up with ipv4 service on pppoa0
INF  2008-03-10T16:16:37Z  sys:  Successfully logged into a password protected page

[Rik]

What are your stats like, Glenn?

[Glenn]

They are fine for my line nothing out of the ordinary

Current Rate:  3456 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:  3456 kbs   928 kbs 
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:  9.0 dB   20.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:  59.7 dB   31.5 dB 
Current Output Power:  18.8 dBm   11.9 dBm 

[Rik]

I'd be inclined to run Routerstats on it for a while, Glenn, so that you can see what the noise margin is like when the line drops. If you have one, can you connect to the test socket for the duration, so that your internal wiring is ruled out?

If you contact IDNet, that's what they'll ask you to do anyway, as they won't want to get an engineer out to you unless they're fairly certain that it's not a problem on your side of the master, given the cost involved for you.

[Glenn]

Thats not a problem, I can leave it running for the next 24 hours and see what it finds. Is the lite version OK?

[Rik]

The lite version is fine, Glenn. You're just looking to see what the noise margin is doing at the time the sync drops.

[Glenn]

I started the Router Stats yesterday evening, around 9pm the line dropped again, it showed the noise margin as 8db when the line dropped. I still have it monitoring the line.

[Rik]

That sounds more like router than line, then, Glenn. If you look at the DSL stats page (the one with the frequency graph), do you see any warnings about suspicious noise?

[Glenn]

I'll need to look at that once I get home

[Glenn]

Now this is strange, but I presume it is to do with noisy external wiring. With my 2700 connected directly to the face plate I was getting a connection around 2300 - 2500kbs, however with the face plate back on and the line connected to it again (engineer install) I'm getting 3500kbs.

Rik, the graph you asked for is in the 2nd attachment.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rik]

Earlier sync, Glenn? It should be higher now than in the evening.

[Glenn]

When I checked at about 16.15 the noise margin was up at 12db, I have a manual set margin of 9db, the router was still sync'ing at 2300, it then re-trained around 10 mins later to 2528. I turned the router off and reconnected the face plate, turned the router back on and it connected at 3520.

[Rik]

Now that is weird. I can't explain that at all, Glenn, theoretically it's impossible to get better stats away from the test socket. The only two things I can think are that (a) the router did a better job after the power down or that (b) you have a worn test socket that didn't make good contact when you connected the router. The latter seems unlikely though.

Might be worth a word with support to see if they can take a look at the line...

[Glenn]

Andrew has done a line check, no problems found, I have reconnected my Netgear 834G (running at approx 2500kbs), to see if the problems are still there with the dropouts, if not, I will be buying another 2wire, as it gives me a far higher connection speed.

[Rik]

Good luck, Glenn. Eliminating cause is so tricky in these situations. Like you, my Netgear always had a lower sync speed, but it seemed to cling to the line like a leech.

[Glenn]

Well I have had the Netgear on for 24hrs, no dropouts. So this morning I have reconnected the 2700 to see if that drops again.

[Rik]

Good luck with that, Glenn, let us know how it goes. Having a spare router is always a good diagnostic.

[Glenn]

The 2700 is still dropping connections, so I have a new 2700HGV on the way £16.50 from ebay http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=190203705671&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=009

[Rik]

You'll soon be building a shed for your surplus stock, Glenn.

[Glenn]

Let me see what I have

SMC wireless router - connects at 2400kbs but stable
SMC router - connects at 2400kbs but stable
Netgear D834GT v2 - connects at 2400kbs but stable
2700HGV upgraded firmware - connected at 3500kbs, was stable until started rebooting constantly
2700HGV 2SSID - Connected at 3500kbs stable for the past 6 months, now keeps dropping connection randomly

There must be another one somewhere in the house.

[Rik]

I've restricted myself to two spares - so far.

[Glenn]

Well since I brought and paid for the 'New' 2700, the old one has behaved itself

[Rik]

I swear they know. Once I had a 2700 on the way, the old Netgear went up a gear.

[Glenn]

Just about everyday since my last post in this thread my router has retrained or rebooted everyday, I have tried another router and still get the same problem. In the past 24 hours the line has retrained 5 times and the router rebooted once. The error I get when the retrain happens is normally "ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT"

The ADSL line I have is a BT engineer install, so should they still carry out work up to the ADSL socket they originally fitted, or only to the face plate?

[Rik]

No idea, tbh, Glenn. The demarcation is normally the test socket, so I would guess that would still apply, but don't know for sure.

Do you know if you're imminent for 21CN, and have you noticed any loss of service on the voice side?

[Glenn]

Q2 2009 according to Samknows Rik. The problems did start after the previous round of BT engineering work, so I think it is something that was done in the exchange. Andrew checked my line when I called support but found no problems.

I think I'll email them with the diagnostics pages from the router to see if that will help at all.

[Rik]

Worth a try, Glenn. My gut instinct is that BT dropped the ball in the last round of work, the short-notice announcement of yet more major upheaval is too much of a coincidence to me. OTOH, I have no evidence for this, just instinct.

[Glenn]

Just to make sure one final time that it was not an internal problem, I connected one of my routers to the test socket. During the night when I had no PC's running the line retrained again. Miriam should now be logging a case with BT for me today, hopefully BT will find a problem and correct it.

[Simon]

Best of luck, Glenn.   

[Rik]

Keep us posted.

[Sebby]

It always nice to know for certain that a problem is not to do with your own setup. Let us know the outcome.

[Glenn]

Looking at the router stats last night, it looks like BT had aplay with my connection yesterday lunchtime, it lost sync 3 time in 6 minutes, with the last reconnect at 928kbs. It is presently running at 3392kbs and without a loss of sync/retrain in the past 19hrs, it is still connected to the test socket.

[Sebby]

It could have just been a noise burst, but it's difficult to know.

[Rik]

May your profile recover quickly.

[Glenn]

It looks like BT may not have fixed the problem just the symptom, the noise margin rasied to 12db before I left for work, as a result the sync lost 500kbs

[Rik]

Have you checked with support, Glenn?

[Glenn]

not yet, just got into work

[Glenn]

BT made the change to the target noise margin. To me it looks like they are treating the symptom not the cause.

[Glenn]

OK I just checked my router stats via Logmein, it has resync'd again, Support are logging another case with BT

[Glenn]

James from IDNet sent me an email yesterday, saying BT can't find a problem on the line, since then the line has resync'd twice, the last time was just after my weekly race night with my rfactor racers.

I have just sent the 2wire stats page along with the diagnostics pages, hopefully if they can be sent to BT it will help them findout what the problem is

[Simon]

Hope it gets sorted soon Glenn.  Possibly another symptom of the 'damaged cable' BT are supposed to be repairing on the 29th? 

[Sebby]

As your ADSL was an engineer install, you'll have a filtered faceplate, so it can't be internal wiring. Therefore, it has to be something external, or a local noise source. I know that probably doesn't help a lot, but we're at that point where you've got to decide if you want an engineer to visit and risk getting a £160+ bill.

[Glenn]

OK, I'm getting a little p***ed off with BT now, this morning the target NM was increased on my line again to from 12 to 18Db!!!!! the connection speed is now down to 50% of what it was before BT did their work in March.

[Sebby]

I don't believe 18dB exists, so it must be 15, but noise has reduced since the last sync.

[Glenn]

Sebby, its currently now showing at 17db, but was at 18db around 10 mins ago

Broadband Link – StatisticsDSL  Down  Up
Current Rate:  1824 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:  2220 kbs   920 kbs 
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:  17.0 dB   20.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:  59.9 dB   31.5 dB 
Current Output Power:  16.7 dBm   11.9 dBm 

ATM  Cells  Errors  %
Transmit:  5525777  0  0
Receive:  20520912  0  0

IP  Bytes  Packets  Errors  %
Transmit:  223804250  845115  0  0
Receive:  928489604  1453261  0  0

[Rik]

I agree with Sebby, Glenn, that 15db is the highest official NM. I'm guessing your re-sync was when the line was particularly noisy and now the line has improved a bit. It might be worth forcing another re-sync and then checking NM immediately afterwards.

[Glenn]

OK, re-sync'd, I take what I said about BT , they haven't raised the NM, it is back at 12db

[Rik]

What sync speed did you get? Something must be banging a lot of noise on your line, that extra 6db is equivalent to 1000-1400k normally.

[Glenn]

2700 kbs, up from the 1800kbs it sync'd at 05.30 sync this morning, I was sound asleep at the time.

[Rik]

What time does your heating turn on?

[Glenn]

Just checked the heating comes on a 5.30, but the resync was at 4.31, I just added an hour for BST but it was already set at BST

2008/04/21 04:31:25 BST 1  2528 2552 2108 2108 12.2 7.0 59.9 17.5 12171 5816716 0.64 4.00  448 888 19.0 31.5 11.9 649 8477  G.DMT Annex A Alcatel 230/105 ERR_SIG_INTERRUPT -10.8 8.5 34.5 2

[Rik]

Damn, there goes another theory! It is, though, within the window for BT's work this week.

[Glenn]

Is there a list available of what exchanges were worked on and when?

[Rik]

Not that I've seen, unfortunately. I think much of the work is on backhaul and fibre, reading between the lines.

[Glenn]

Just done a speed test, the line has been up for the past 2 days without a resync

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 1500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  2752 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1382 kbps

Hopefully if the line can hold it's sync the speed will improve, but the router is now reporting "Suspicious - impulse noise detected" which I have never noticed before.

[Sebby]

I've seen a couple of people mention that, Glenn. Apparently it means exactly what it says, though I still don't really know how to interpret that. Let's hope your sync holds and your profile should adjust in the next few days.

[Glenn]

Hmmm... something is going on, after 5 days of no re-sync, the line dropped and the router rebooted at 05.30 again this morning. I was up this time today and the heating came on at 05.41, so its not that, the street lights were already out too

[Rik]

The only thing we can say with certainty is that if it's happening at the same time each day, it's got to be electrical noise. I don't recognise this 5:30 of which you speak, Glenn , but if you're up that early again, could you try having a detuned MW radio near the router and listen for a noise burst?

[Glenn]

Rik, the strange thing is that it happened on Monday, it has been fine for the rest of the week, then happened again today so it's not everyday.

[Rik]

The plot thickens. How long has this been happening?

[Glenn]

Just this week, so that makes it even stranger, I wonder if BT did some work Monday morning and today?

[Rik]

It's in the right time slot for their scheduled work.

[Glenn]

I think another call to support maybe in order. After 4 days without a loss of sync today it has resync'd 6 times with approximately 45,000 CRC errors since 12.18 this morning!

[Sebby]

That would suggest a lot of noise on the line, but that doesn't necessarily indicate a fault; unfortunately, the noise source may well be local.

[Rik]

I had something similar at the beginning of the week, Glenn, and found that BT were working on the cables just up the road.

[Glenn]

I got home today to find that the router has re-sync'd 11 time since 2pm today, strangely it reconnected a 6 times at 0kbs  The attenuation has risen again to 60.4 from 59.7 5 weeks ago

I have emailed support to get BT to take another look at the line, if they can't find a problem remotely then to get an engineer to investigate.

[Rik]

It's got to be a line fault or something chucking out some really serious noise near the line, Glenn. I hope BT track it down for you.

[Glenn]

I do hope so

[Sebby]

Hope you get it sorted.

[Glenn]

BT engineer is due to take a look tomorrow hopefully he will find something

[Lance]

 

[Rik]

We'll be bating our breath till we hear, Glenn.

[Sebby]

Fingers crossed!

[Glenn]

Well it's 11.45, still no sign of the BT eng

[Rik]

Get the bacon butties going Glenn, they can smell them for miles.

[Glenn]

He arrived a 12  2 hours later he has fixed the problem, it was a cable shorting, near one of the underground access points in the pavement, around 35 yds from my house

[Rik]

Nice one, Glenn. How are the stats looking now?

[Glenn]

I'm back at work now, but I'll take a look later. Hopefully I can get Andrew to ask BT to reduce the target margin back to 9Db

The strange thing is, BT wholesale did line tests and reported no problems on the line. When the engineer called for a line test they found problems.

The BT engineer left me his number if the line goes again, he said he would give me the number to get the line replaced. Also, I found out that the of primary pair of wires one is broken, so my line is on the 2nd pair of wires in the cable. So if I ordered a 2nd line BT would need to lay a new cable

[Rik]

I feel the urge for a second line coming on.

[Lance]

It would be extremely tempting! 

[Sebby]

I'm glad it's sorted, Glenn.

[Glenn]

I asked today if BT to put my target NM back to 9db as the engineer found a physical fault. Just got notifaction that it has been set lower, so maybe over the next few days I may get back to my original speed.

[Rik]

Just don't reboot the router, Glenn, until the radius server problem is resolved.

[Sebby]

I asked today if BT to put my target NM back to 9db as the engineer found a physical fault. Just got notifaction that it has been set lower, so maybe over the next few days I may get back to my original speed.

Usually once this is actioned, the sync will be dropped automatically.

[Glenn]

My connection is back to 3616kps now and seems stable

[Rik]

 

[Sebby]

My connection is back to 3616kps now and seems stable

Excellent.

[Lance]

Hope it stays that way, Glenn!