Are Carphone Warehouse eyeing any other ISP`s to take over ?

[Dont mention Talk Talk !!]

Question

What do Onetel, Talk Talk (  ) , AOL have in common ?


Answer

They are all owned by Carphone Warehouse and currently reside at the bottom end of customer satisfaction reports, literally sliding off the page.

3 companies, 3 knackered train wrecks, customers getting ripped off and lied to  x  3,  keystone cops customer support  x  3 and all under the big umbrella of Mr Charles Dunstone 

Im sure Mr Dunce-stone has his eyes on weaker ISP`s that are ripe for buying out and adding a 4th ISP nee to become 4th train wreck under his control, but ....................which would it be ?

With  companies like Tiscali took similar approach i.e the mugging of Pipex, could we be left with an ISP market comprising IDNet and two giant , steaming turds known as Tiscali conglomerate and and Carphone Warehouse conglomerate, that is........ assuming one of those giant turds didnt swallow up IDNet ....

Can you identify another ISP that Dunce-stone may have his beady eye on and imagine through multiple take overs our ISP market in the UK looked like this in 5 years time.

.................Carphone Warehouse Conglomerate

................ Tiscali Conglomerate


food for thought for us all ..............eh !!

James

[Sebby]

There are plenty of quite mainstream ISPs that I could see being taken over by Carphone Warehouse, but it's difficult to predict.

It's a shame for ISPs that were once quite specialist, such as Pipex. I remember when I migrated to them, and the MD (David Rickards at the time) actually dealt with my migration. Unfortunately, that kind of service gets lost, and instead it's all about proving a below-average service for a low price.

We could probably come up with potential targets all day, but I prefer to sit here feeling quite confident that IDNet won't it happen to them.

[madasahatter]

Unfortunately, that kind of service gets lost, and instead it's all about proving a below-average service for a low price.

There's the rub though Sebby - once 2 or 3 have 99% of the market sewn up, then prices will start to rise because of much less competition, while the level of service provided will not.   

[Gary]

I'm banned form the carphone warehouse, not allowed to buy off them after I stood in a shop with Justina and quoted our rights on a full refund for a sim free handset, even asked if they wanted to talk to trading standards on my phone, had to do that twice with them, then they refused to serve me any more  Happy days

[cavillas]

If Simon and Tim wanted to sell IDNET I'm sure they would pick the company that offered the best result for it's customers as well as the best price for themselves and also the futures of their employees.

That's a dream I don't want anymore.

[sobranie]

If Simon and Tim wanted to sell IDNET I'm sure they would pick the company that offered the best result for it's customers as well as the best price for themselves and also the futures of their employees.

That's a dream I don't want anymore.

Perhaps IDNetters could buy it if push came to shove.

[Rik]

It's an interesting thought. Maybe IDNet could offer a share option to give us a stake in the company?

[Sebby]

It sounds like a good idea to me.

[Rik]

Just one more, Sebby.

[Sebby]

One more what? Just kidding, I made it.

[Rik]

Congratulations.

[madasahatter]

If Simon and Tim wanted to sell IDNET I'm sure they would pick the company that offered the best result for it's customers as well as the best price for themselves and also the futures of their employees.

That's a dream I don't want anymore.

Not wanting to besmirch Simon and Tim in any way, but if they wanted to sell up I'm sure they would go for the best price - it's only human nature. Sure, they may well TRY to get assurances re their employees, but if there's enough money on the table............

[Sebby]

It's always a possibility.

[madasahatter]

It's always a possibility.

Not one that I like the sound of Sebby, but we ARE all human at the end of the day 

[Rik]

OTOH, all a prospective buyer has to do is look in here to realise that we'd all have our MAC requests in within the day...

[madasahatter]

Yep - but by the time it happens will there be anywhere else to go that isn't already in the proective buyers pocket? 

[Rik]

That's always the question, unfortunately. Personally, I am optimistic. The niche market ISP will, I believe, always have a place.

[madasahatter]

You're probably right - there will always be the more discerning customer to cater for who is willing to pay that little extra for a better service. 

[Rik]

I believe so. The attraction for the takeover merchants is grabbing a large chunk of market share. They won't get it with a niche market company and, I hope, they are bright enough to realise that the customers would be on their way before the ink dried.

[madasahatter]

I see what you mean, but as more of the big boys get bought out, more peeps flock to places like IDNet, meaning their subscriber numbers grow fast, which leads to them becoming ever more of a appetising target for the big boys, which leads to.......................................

[Rik]

Again, I don't see it happening. To keep their promise of no congestion on their network, Simon & Tim have to limit the number of new customers they take one at any time. Over the months I've worked with them, I have found them to be extremely ethical men, who believe in what they are doing. My view is, therefore, that IDNet will grow organically, but never fast enough to become take-over fodder.

I hope...

[Sebby]

I completely agree, Rik.

[madasahatter]

I hope so too Rik. The cynical side of me just can't help rearing it's ugly head every so often 

[Rik]

One day, I'm sure Simon and Tim will have had enough - but I don't see any sign of it yet, and I don't think it will happen for a long time. 

[madasahatter]

And until that time comes, I'm happy to stay where i am 

[Rik]

Aren't we all. 

[plugwash]

Yep - but by the time it happens will there be anywhere else to go that isn't already in the proective buyers pocket? 

I'm pretty sure that as long as BT wholesale keep offering half decent service there will be small ISPs who use that service to offer decent internet connections. Who those ISPs are may change but I bet they will still be there.

I think there is a good chance that tiscali et-al will have big financial problems in the next year or so. I bet a lot of the ex-pipex customers will be migrating as soon as thier current contract ends.

[Colin Burns]

is that from Tiscali never making a profit... 

oh and i think the next ISP that the car phone whearhouse buys will be either Bee of Virgin media.  cause its already been sold twice.

[plugwash]

is that from Tiscali never making a profit... 

They are trying to get into the black by buying loads of customers and pushing as many of those customers as they can including those they bought to tiscali LLU. Buying other providers who are also into LLU (pipex was for example) is also usefull in this endevour since it extends thier LLU presense into more exchanges without needing new equipment.

The problem is that they are doing a horrible job of it. If they were thinking long term they should have set up thier LLU network to allow them to treat users buying different classes of broadband product differently and they should have put enough competent support to deal with the inevitable ***** in a mass migrations.

Instead they have ended up with users paying pipex level prices (not as high as IDNET but not far off) for tiscali levels of service. They have also ***** up some migrations and have a support team who is not prepared to get those ***** dealt with. Yes this means more profit now but IMO it is unlikely to last.

[Tacitus]

Again, I don't see it happening. To keep their promise of no congestion on their network, Simon & Tim have to limit the number of new customers they take one at any time. Over the months I've worked with them, I have found them to be extremely ethical men, who believe in what they are doing. My view is, therefore, that IDNet will grow organically, but never fast enough to become take-over fodder.

That's interesting.  I run a small website which is hosted by a smallish outfit called Clook.  Like iDNet they trade on good service and reliability at a price which gives them a reasonable profit.

Around this time last year they decided that if they were going to continue expanding they needed to overhaul the whole of their systems - servers, back office etc and stress test the whole setup in order that they could continue to offer a good service with the increased customer numbers.  To do this they stopped taking on new customers, supposedly for around 3 months, but this stretched to more like 6.  Existing customers didn't see any difference.  Once everything was in place they opened up again to new business.

Now that is a good company.  They also have a US division which is going through the same process.  They've probably only got around 10 employees across both continents, but the service they offer is superb.  Anybody interested can check them out at http://www.clook.net

The  main point is, it's these small/medium sized outfits that are doing well.  They seem less fixated with profit (obviously they need to make money) and more on quality of service.  The real problem is with the majority of the public who are fixated on price to the exclusion of all else. 

[Rik]

The real problem is with the majority of the public who are fixated on price to the exclusion of all else. 

I do agree. People need to learn the difference between cost and value for money. There's a price for all this cheapness...

[Inactive]

The  main point is, it's these small/medium sized outfits that are doing well.  They seem less fixated with profit (obviously they need to make money) and more on quality of service.  The real problem is with the majority of the public who are fixated on price to the exclusion of all else. 

Got it in one, spot on.

[Tacitus]

I do agree. People need to learn the difference between cost and value for money. There's a price for all this cheapness...

It's nothing new :-)

There's the famous 'Common Law of Business Balance' - attributed to John Ruskin circa 1860, although nobody AFAIK can provide a direct attribution.

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little.  When you pay too much, you lose a little money — that is all.  When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.  The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot — it can't be done.  If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better".

There is another also attributed to Ruskin:

There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.

iDNetters excepted of course 

[Rik]

I've seen that attributed to John Donne, "When in the market place, it is wise neither to pay too little nor too much". Good sentiment, by either author.

[Tacitus]

I've seen that attributed to John Donne, "When in the market place, it is wise neither to pay too little nor too much". Good sentiment, by either author.

Never seen it attributed to Donne - I've always assumed Ruskin.  Doubt anyone really knows 

[Simon]

Now that is a good company.  They also have a US division which is going through the same process.  They've probably only got around 10 employees across both continents, but the service they offer is superb.  Anybody interested can check them out at http://www.clook.net

Bookmarked - thanks! 

[Tacitus]

Bookmarked - thanks! 

You should also look at the forum http://www.clook.info/forum/ 

Note you can only view part of it, but in the comments section you will find customer comments similar to those for iDNet - praise for good service with satisfied customers.  Again, they aren't the cheapest around but I doubt you will hear anything other than praise for them.  Not perfect as they can have hardware failures the same as anyone else, as a look at the server announcements section will attest

They don't advertise AFAIK, but rely on the best advertising of all - word of mouth.

[Simon]

Indeed, Tacitus.