Virgin - the first of many?

[somanyholes]

rant over,

it's just madness rik, complete madness, now wheres king george.....

[Rik]

He wouldn't understand ADSL, So, you;d have to explain it slowly. 

[somanyholes]

its so mad, it must be madasahatter striking again 

[somanyholes]

you know whats coming now ...

[somanyholes]

those hoobs have hijacked virgin as well.....

[Rik]

 

Are you sure. It sounds much more like new Labour policy to me.

[madasahatter]

its so mad, it must be madasahatter striking again 

Don't blame us hoobs - even we're not mad enough to come up with this 

Bet this is a double bluff by the mouse - they're behind it all, and just using hoobs as a front - wouldn't be the first time

Anyway, reading the torrent freak article, the BPI will get in touch with the ISP rather than the ISP realising that your p2ping. So, how isthe BPI going to find out  legally? 

[Rik]

From what I've read, Mad, yes. They simply monitor IP addresses using readily available tools. A simple lookup takes them to the ISP.

[madasahatter]

And how many mistakes are they going to make? 

[Rik]

That's another question, of course, and how will they prove it's their material?

[somanyholes]

sure it's easy enough to view torrent swarms, but recently they have also started demanding data from the likes of easynews and giganews, usenet in that respect is more scary, not only do they have your ip, they also have your username and password as proof, and even your credit card details, if you are busted on usenet, which some people have been , you are bang to rights ..... usenet will be the next big hit after torrents due to some people feeling forced back into it...., so would you trust an isp who leads the way in regards of slapping p2p's for a usenet service ......, where you can apparantly download movies lol

[Rik]

IAC, legally, I would have thought that the BPI would need some form of court process to obtain the information from the ISP. Surely the DPA applies here?

[madasahatter]

But the ISP isn't giving up private details if it is them that contact the customer 

[somanyholes]

if you are busted on usenet, which some people have been , you are bang to rights

apologies, this has been foreign so far .....

[madasahatter]

sure it's easy enough to view torrent swarms, but recently they have also started demanding data from the likes of easynews and giganews, usenet in that respect is more scary, not only do they have your ip, they also have your username and password as proof, and even your credit card details, if you are busted on usenet, which some people have been , you are bang to rights ..... usenet will be the next big hit after torrents due to some people feeling forced back into it...., so would you trust an isp who leads the way in regards of slapping p2p's for a usenet service ......, where you can apparantly download movies lol

you mean you can download illegal stuff from usenet? Well I never  

[Rik]

But the ISP isn't giving up private details if it is them that contact the customer 

Interesting point. If they are calling on the ISP to terminate a contract, surely they need proof of guilt which would stand up in a court?

[madasahatter]

You would certainly think so - or hope so 

[Rik]

Or are the ISPs too afraid of the BPI & Govt. Just what is this power that the BPI seems to have?

[Simon]

I suppose the ISPs are worried that the BPI might be able fine them for allowing their customers to download illegally.  I still can't understand how the ISPs, or even the IP monitoring systems are able to distinguish between legal and illegal material.  Surely, all that can be seen is a data stream?

[Rik]

That's my view, Simon. Unless you monitor the entire stream and re-assemble the files, all you have is 1s and 0s.

[Simon]

OTOH, if they could track the IP to the source, and it was obviously an illegal torrent site, or whatever, I suppose that could be proven, but only that you were connected to that site, and downloaded something.

[Rik]

And how do you define an illegal torrent? It's a minefield, imo.

[madasahatter]

Unfortunately, it's a minefield where money talks. I don't think anyone has the answers - let alone the BPI. It's just another of those "lets do something without actually thinking about it" things

[PhilT]

Interesting point. If they are calling on the ISP to terminate a contract, surely they need proof of guilt which would stand up in a court?

Not really. It's a commercial contract that can be terminated by either party on any grounds covered by the terms and conditions. Were it to come to Court the judgment would be on the "balance of probability"

http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/legal/oncable/acceptableuse.html has it well covered :-

2.2. Notwithstanding our right to restrict, suspend or terminate the Services, if you breach this AUP and/or our Terms and Conditions you may receive a formal warning from us specifying the unacceptable conduct and notifying you that repeated breaches may result in the Services (or any part of Services) being temporarily or permanently withdrawn from you.

4.1. You are prohibited from storing, distributing, transmitting or causing to be published any Prohibited Material

4.1.2. infringes or breaches any third party's intellectual property rights (which shall include, but not be limited to copyright, trade mark, design rights, trade secrets, patents, moral rights, paternity rights and performance rights) - this includes the use, distribution and/or copying of any material without the express consent of the owner;

etc etc.

Let's face it Rik, professionals put these T&Cs together to look after their own interests. Nobody on here is going to come up with some magic loophole to protect a pirate - it's like listening to 1st year accounting students with all their "this cannot fail" get rich quick ideas ! 

[Rik]

Fair comment, Phil. It seems a shame to think it will come down to David v Goliath though.