BBC tells ISPs to get stuffed

madasahatter · Apr 05, 2008, 15:27:35

A lot of flying pigs seem to appear round these parts when discussing those in some sort of authority

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 15:28:28

I know, it makes you wonder why, doesn't it. If MI6 are watching this forum, we're in serious trouble.

madasahatter · Apr 09, 2008, 08:25:25

Update here

Highfield does seem to speak a lot of sense imo - including the point he makes about the cheap ISPs basing their pricing model on peeps doing a bit of surfing and the odd e-mail. In this day and age, that's just not enough, and it's time the ISPs woke up and realised that peeps want more out of their broadband. In a way, they are a bit like the recording industry - they have had it far too easy for far too long, and they don't like letting go of the good times, blaming anyone and everyone else for their failure to move with the times instead of realising that the answer lies with themselves.

Captain K · Apr 09, 2008, 08:54:37

Interesting. I thought this quote was particularly relevant:

Quote"The iPlayer has come along and made downloading a legal and mass market activity," said Michael Phillips, from broadband comparison service broadbandchoices.co.uk.

He said he believed ISPs were partly to blame for the bandwidth problems they now face.

"They have priced themselves as cheaply as possible on the assumption that people were just going to use e-mail and do a bit of web surfing," he said.

ISPs needed to stop using the term 'unlimited' to describe their services and make it clear that if people wanted to watch hours of downloaded video content they would have to pay a higher tariff, he added.

The "unlimited" Phillips refers to is the key to the problem. If ISP's were all to adopt pricing models with various bandwidth strata, they would solve their problems overnight, and wouldn't need to bleat at the BBC. I suspect it would also ease the pressure on ISP's to do something about P2P file sharing, once the big downloaders had to pay more money for using a large chunk of available capacity.

As it is, the "unlimited" flag is used to flog BB to the uninformed masses. If ISP want to sell their product like this, they can't complain that some of the services customers can access will require investment in their backhaul network. Classic case of having cake and eating it, IMHO.

somanyholes · Apr 09, 2008, 08:56:51

both spot on views imo, its the usual case of hoping people don't use what they pay for, and then moaning about it when they do..

Rik · Apr 09, 2008, 09:46:33

OTOH, I can still see the iPlayer having an impact on ISPs like IDNet, not in their business model, but with the BT backhaul. If this does occur, people are going to blame the ISPs for something which is beyond their control. The only sensible way forward, imo, is for the Govt to lay down minimum acceptable standards for broadband, and impose them on BT as a USO.

Gary · Apr 09, 2008, 09:52:20

Quote from: Rik on Apr 09, 2008, 09:46:33
OTOH, I can still see the iPlayer having an impact on ISPs like IDNet, not in their business model, but with the BT backhaul. If this does occur, people are going to blame the ISPs for something which is beyond their control. The only sensible way forward, imo, is for the Govt to lay down minimum acceptable standards for broadband, and impose them on BT as a USO.

I cannot see that happening Rik, considering the governments lack of understanding of the internet as it is, but it would be the answer

Rik · Apr 09, 2008, 09:55:33

I did say sensible way, Gary, so that immediately rules out any Govt doing it.

Gary · Apr 09, 2008, 10:10:38

Quote from: Rik on Apr 09, 2008, 09:55:33
I did say sensible way, Gary, so that immediately rules out any Govt doing it.

Captain K · Apr 09, 2008, 10:20:43

Quote from: Rik on Apr 09, 2008, 09:55:33
I did say sensible way, Gary, so that immediately rules out any Govt doing it.

[Tongue in cheek]

I've got an idea. Think about how the privatised railways work. Numerous different franchise holders with a centralised independent company running the infrastructure. Translate that to the internet. What if the government were to set up a central, profit-making (or no captain of industry would go near it) company to run the infrastructure, that is to ISP's what Network Rail is to the rail companies. I've even got a name for it...perhaps Telecoms Britain, or TB for short?

[/Tongue in cheek]

Rik · Apr 09, 2008, 10:36:29

Actually, I agree with the concept, Bruce. It works for trains, mains electricity, gas and TV/Radio transmitters. We're half way there with Openreach, the solution, to me, is to take the latter into public ownership and to invest the required money in the infrastructure. BT, ISPs etc can all rent the service they want.

madasahatter · Apr 09, 2008, 12:18:18

Quote from: Rik on Apr 09, 2008, 09:46:33
OTOH, I can still see the iPlayer having an impact on ISPs like IDNet, not in their business model, but with the BT backhaul. If this does occur, people are going to blame the ISPs for something which is beyond their control. The only sensible way forward, imo, is for the Govt to lay down minimum acceptable standards for broadband, and impose them on BT as a USO.

Totally agree with that - but that is up to ISPs as BTs customers to put pressure on BT to provide the service they are paying them for - just as we would pressure the ISP to provide the service we are paying them for. If that means that the Government has to step in, then they should do - and sooner rather than later. the internet is big business, and I'm sure that a few ISPs applying pressure in the right places would get a result.

madasahatter · Apr 09, 2008, 12:19:04

Quote from: somanyholes on Apr 09, 2008, 08:56:51
its the usual case of hoping people don't use what they pay for, and then moaning about it when they do..

Well said that mouse

Niall · Apr 09, 2008, 20:22:49

Quote from: Captain K on Apr 09, 2008, 08:54:37
Interesting. I thought this quote was particularly relevant:

The "unlimited" Phillips refers to is the key to the problem. If ISP's were all to adopt pricing models with various bandwidth strata, they would solve their problems overnight, and wouldn't need to bleat at the BBC. I suspect it would also ease the pressure on ISP's to do something about P2P file sharing, once the big downloaders had to pay more money for using a large chunk of available capacity.

As it is, the "unlimited" flag is used to flog BB to the uninformed masses. If ISP want to sell their product like this, they can't complain that some of the services customers can access will require investment in their backhaul network. Classic case of having cake and eating it, IMHO.

I had to laugh when I read this in work. The fact that Tiscali have been selling products claiming to be unlimited (even if it means a person can only get 2mb) for £6.49 and now SHOCKER, they can't afford the bandwidth for the people using their service that they advertise. Ignoring the unlimited thing completely, if they are now saying they're going to have to throttle iPlayer use because their network can't cope, who's fault is it? It's certainly NOT the fault of the BBC.

Personally I think they've been digging their own grave for years, and they've destroyed a LOT of ISPs in buyouts, and now they can't afford it. Boo f*****g hoo.

For once I'd back the BBC to display a "blacklist" of ISPs that are throttling iPlayer usage.

I actually used iPlayer for the first time last weekend when I missed Dr Who

madasahatter · Apr 10, 2008, 00:40:56

Quote from: Niall on Apr 09, 2008, 20:22:49
I had to laugh when I read this in work. The fact that Tiscali have been selling products claiming to be unlimited (even if it means a person can only get 2mb) for £6.49 and now SHOCKER, they can't afford the bandwidth for the people using their service that they advertise. Ignoring the unlimited thing completely, if they are now saying they're going to have to throttle iPlayer use because their network can't cope, who's fault is it? It's certainly NOT the fault of the BBC.

Personally I think they've been digging their own grave for years, and they've destroyed a LOT of ISPs in buyouts, and now they can't afford it. Boo f*****g hoo.

For once I'd back the BBC to display a "blacklist" of ISPs that are throttling iPlayer usage.

yeah - go Niall

madasahatter · Apr 10, 2008, 12:40:33

Tiscali - leading internet supplier

According to this they are anyway:

more argumenst

Niall · Apr 10, 2008, 19:57:08

Aww the big bully of ISPs isn't getting it's own way. Such a shame. I hope they go under, the profiteering morons.

One other thing I think is amazing about all this is that they are really trying to play this card, when they must have known, SURELY, that people will eventually be using the network to it's capacity as the internet moves on to bigger and better things. It's not like we were going to go back to spectrums now is it? The whole sorry state that Virgin media is in, is a prime example of over selling your network.