Strange Problem

Takeshatt · Apr 04, 2008, 22:10:51

First off be gentle with me, this is my first post.

I have a strange problem with my net connection. Around 6.30pm on Monday, Tuesday and today my connection dropped/drops and almost immediately re-connects. This will go on until around 11pm then the router reconnects and my normal speeds. I'm on a fixed 2mb connection. During these periods of disconnection/re-connection my speed is around 12kps. I have changed router, cables and even PC, all to no avail.

I have reported this IDNET, who have confirmed that BT can find nothing wrong. IDNET have offered a call from a BT engineer, which I will probably take up. Have any of you guys heard of this type of problem?

Simon · Apr 04, 2008, 22:33:28

Hi Takeshatt, and

I can't give you much in the way of technical advice (hopefully others will), but do be aware that if you have a BT engineer out, and they find a fault 'your' side, you may be looking at a bill in excess of £160.

Takeshatt · Apr 04, 2008, 22:53:41

Yeah been told that, however if it fixes the problem its ok.

One thing I did forget is that the disconnects are every 2 mins 15 secs....exactly.

Lance · Apr 04, 2008, 23:25:25

welcome to the forum!

This really is a strange one! I can't think of anything at the moment which way be causing it.

Sebby · Apr 04, 2008, 23:43:48

When you say the connection drops, do you know if it is just your connection to the ISP or does the sync drop?

I assume it's the sync. Fixed rate products tend to be less susceptable to noise spikes, but I suspect that is what's happening here.

Can you think of anything that happens around the time the disconnects start? Perhaps your boiler coming on, street lights, etc?

Lastly, could you post your stats?

If you're not sure on anything I've said, just shout.

Takeshatt · Apr 05, 2008, 00:08:54

I use a Netgear DG834v2 router, and yes the green light goes orange when the DC's happen.

by Stats I think you mean these:

Down Speed 2272kps Up 288kps
Line att Down 52db Up 15.5db
Noise Down 13db Up 22db

Not aware of the lights etc thing. Been with IDNET for around 2 years, this is the only problem I've ever had.

If you guys got any ideas, it would be great. I've got a 17 year old WOW freak, missing out on something called the Black Temple

...he keeps giving me the "your a bad father look"

Sebby · Apr 05, 2008, 00:42:00

Okay, so it seems you're losing sync, which means it's the BT side rather than IDNet.

Your stats are okay, but not great for a fixed rate service, and it's possible the noise margin is dropping low enough to cause the router to lose sync.

Do you have a master socket that had a removable lower half? If so, could you carefully remove it and connect the router to the socket behind. This is the test socket and eliminates internal wiring, which is prone to noise pickup. Then re-post your stats.

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 08:38:03

Hi Takeshatt, welcome to the forum.

I agree with Sebby, this has to be a noise issue. How many phone sockets do you have, and what is connected to them - in particular - do you have a Sky box? Before you get a BT engineer out, talk nicely to IDNet and see if they'll lend you a router. The v2 Netgear is quite old now, and could be contributing to the issue.

Takeshatt · Apr 05, 2008, 10:10:56

I use an Asdl Nation faceplate, the sexy one that splits the adsl line and landline. The router is connected to that with the cable that came with the router. No extensions anywhere in the house. Yes I have Sky+. I have tried a different router, same problem. Its the time thing that is getting me. Why between 6.30pm and 11 pm? . My son is playing WOW at the moment and the connection has been live for over 8 hours, everything is as it should be.

As for the age of the router, what is the recommended one these days

Ta for the help so far.

Sebby · Apr 05, 2008, 10:12:56

In that case, you should theoretically have better stats than that, though I guess you could've been on the boundaries of being able to receive the fixed 2Mb service.

Could you try the test socket, just to rule out the faceplate as the cause? Then we'll take it from there.

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 10:17:14

Quote from: Takeshatt on Apr 05, 2008, 10:10:56
Yes I have Sky+.

If you don't have multi-room, try unplugging it for a few days (from the phone, that is). How does the Sky dish cabling relate to the phone cabling physically? That is, do they run close together at any point?

QuoteWhy between 6.30pm and 11 pm? .

That's fairly classic for electrical noise. Do you have any industrial units on the same mains phase as you, any takeaways?

Takeshatt · Apr 05, 2008, 11:47:53

Unpugged the Sky+ phone connection, cabling shouldn't be an issue. No takeaways or such. Residential area. I am around 3km from exchange. Will post stats minus face plate later. As I said before been with Idnet for around 2 years and using broadband for around 4. Never had this issue before. Speeds and connection have been rock solid up until now.

If it is a noise thing; industrial, how would i solve that?

Ta again.

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 11:56:24

It depends on the cause. It could require BT to fit an RF filter to the line. One thing you can try is to de-tune a MW radio, so you're getting only white noise, then walk around with it during the problems hours and see if the noise gets worse in any areas.

Sebby · Apr 05, 2008, 11:57:39

This isn't an IDNet issue, it's something to do with the line. The fact you've not had problems before doesn't mean there couldn't be a new noise source.

I'll wait to see the stats from the test socket.

Takeshatt · Apr 05, 2008, 12:26:45

Ok Stats from Test Socket are:

Speed Down 2272 Up 288
Line Down 53db Up 15.5
Noise Down 13db Up 21db

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 12:29:05

No significant difference, so it doesn't appear o be your internal wiring as such. Try the MW radio trick. If that doesn't give you any clues, contact IDNet, let them know you've tried the test socket and give them both sets of line stats.

Takeshatt · Apr 05, 2008, 12:33:32

Will do.

Takeshatt · Apr 05, 2008, 12:38:56

Could this be a contension issue?. I was looking at the IDNet web site and saw that if I went with the "Premier" package, my data would get priority. I assume this means moving from 50:1 to 20:1, or something along those lines.

g7pkf · Apr 05, 2008, 12:45:18

Contention no.

now lets look at the facts.

between 6 and 11PM every 2m 15 seconds you lose connection?

yes?

you live in a residential area?

what happens between 6 and 11pm is this weekdays or weekends as well.....

do you have a friendly neighbour on adsl? is it happening to them as well?

have you tried the MW trick? Tune to a distant MW station and walk around with the radio till the signal goes and you get lots of interferasnce, heard this works well on 5 live?(from a bt eng). you can do it from the car and drive the rough way your line runs to the exchange.

one instance they had was a dodgy dvd player. 2 houses each side couldnt get adsl when this was switched on.

dean g7PKF

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 12:47:01

I agree, Dean, this is not contention it's almost certainly noise from an internal or external source, tracking it down is the way forward.

g7pkf · Apr 05, 2008, 12:52:16

also it may be worth knowing EXACTLY what date this all started.

then if a neighbour bought a piece of electrical equipment on/around that date......

i once heard (on TB) a wifes pleasure toy would cause just this issue but running it from 6-11 every day? cant belive that but you never know....

this is just an example. i have heard of dvd/cd/televisions especially supermarket specials all causing this.#

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 12:53:10

Not to mention Sky boxes, of course...

Inactive · Apr 05, 2008, 12:58:22

Quote from: g7pkf on Apr 05, 2008, 12:52:16

i once heard (on TB) a wifes pleasure toy would cause just this issue but running it from 6-11 every day? cant belive that but you never know....

Orgasmic ..

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 12:59:26

I think it would beat our recent seismic upset, In.

Inactive · Apr 05, 2008, 13:00:49

Indeed, and last a bit longer..

Rik · Apr 05, 2008, 13:01:26

Hell, at least the quake didn't affect anyone's ADSL connection.

Takeshatt · Apr 05, 2008, 13:14:46

Ok last question. Would a newer (more upto date) router be better, if it is an interference issue.

Had an issue at 11.25, according to Son, but nothing so far with Sky+ box off phone line.

Once again ta for advice, its been really useful.

Sebby · Apr 05, 2008, 13:20:48

This can't be contention. Your SNRM is determined by the lone quality, which comprises of many factors.

In this case I don't think a new router would be better, though of course your current one could be faulty (but I doubt it).

We could be off the mark; your SNRM may always have been at its current level, which in itself is okay.

For now, though, I think we need to try and find if there is a strong noise source.

MoHux · Apr 05, 2008, 21:14:56

Would a quiet-line test on voice help??

Malc · Apr 05, 2008, 22:42:23

Quote from: Rik on Apr 05, 2008, 12:53:10
Not to mention Sky boxes, of course...

Bloody sky boxes, mine won't record, so I pay the £65 the came today -2 HOURS LATE - and the damn box they brought won't turn on.

Now they're coming back on Tuesday...

Niall · Apr 05, 2008, 23:30:43

Just out of curiosity (and baring in mind this could be entirely unrelated as I've never bothered looking into this), are you using a wireless router? If so, is there an Xbox360 plugged in, in the same room?

It may sound strange, but when I use a video receiver in this room to send Sky to here (not got multiroom in this room), if I turn on the Xbox it renders it useless, and the same if I turn on the wireless side of the router.

As I say, I've no idea if these things interfere with each other (xbox & router) but I know they do pump out interference.

Inactive · Apr 05, 2008, 23:41:25

Quote from: Malc on Apr 05, 2008, 22:42:23
Bloody sky boxes, mine won't record, so I pay the £65 the came today -2 HOURS LATE - and the damn box they brought won't turn on.

Now they're coming back on Tuesday...

Is it an Amstrad Malc?, if it is, they should replace it FOC, as far as I am aware.

Malc · Apr 06, 2008, 09:12:42

Quote from: Niall on Apr 05, 2008, 23:30:43
Just out of curiosity (and baring in mind this could be entirely unrelated as I've never bothered looking into this), are you using a wireless router? If so, is there an Xbox360 plugged in, in the same room?

It may sound strange, but when I use a video receiver in this room to send Sky to here (not got multiroom in this room), if I turn on the Xbox it renders it useless, and the same if I turn on the wireless side of the router.

As I say, I've no idea if these things interfere with each other (xbox & router) but I know they do pump out interference.

No Xbox, and the router is cabled to the PC

Malc · Apr 06, 2008, 09:13:30

Quote from: Inactive on Apr 05, 2008, 23:41:25
Is it an Amstrad Malc?, if it is, they should replace it FOC, as far as I am aware.

It's a Pace and I've had it nearly 3 years, so it's out of warranty, they're coming back Tuesday.

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 09:34:15

It might be worth mentioning the Sale of Goods Act to them Malc, which provides for a warranty of six years on electrical goods. That said, you're on a sliding scale, and the £65 charge is probably about what a court would decide after three years.

Inactive · Apr 06, 2008, 09:50:05

HaHaHa . This is Sky Rik, they set their own rules.

madasahatter · Apr 06, 2008, 09:52:48

You're right of course Rik, but did Malc buy the box himself, or did Sky give it "free" with the subscription?

Not sure how he'd stand if he got it free tbh.

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 09:59:59

Sky subsidise boxes but you still pay for them and the SoGA still applies. Sky don't acknowledge this until you argue, of course, but they will if the call gets escalated to Customer Care. However, a new box is currently £139 or so, so on a sliding scale, half price at 3+ years sounds OK to me (and they will sort any dish, LNB or wiring problems while they are there).

madasahatter · Apr 06, 2008, 10:02:59

Ah right - didn't know you had to pay for the boxes and subscribe as well - makes it more of a rip off than I thought

Inactive · Apr 06, 2008, 10:03:57

Quote from: Rik on Apr 06, 2008, 09:59:59
(and they will sort any dish, LNB or wiring problems while they are there).

Read " should " dependant on which monkey they send.

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 10:04:18

An annual sub is in the region of £540 for the full package. The box is cheap by comparison.

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 10:04:44

Quote from: Inactive on Apr 06, 2008, 10:03:57
Read " should " dependant on which monkey they send.

I have my own, personal, special care engineer.

Inactive · Apr 06, 2008, 10:06:39

I do my own Rik, I wouldn't let any Sky Monkeys near my property, I have seen too many bodge jobs by them.

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 10:08:20

So have I, In, that's why I have my own SCE. If you complain the right way, you can get a result with Murdoch.

Malc · Apr 06, 2008, 10:22:56

I only paid £65 for the box, my old style box gave up three years ago, so, I rang then and told them that I wasn't going to pay £199 (then) for a sky+ box and asked to cancel, they offered me the sky+ box for a £65 call out fee, so I can't complain really.

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 10:23:34

I don't think you can, Malc, but I doubt you'll get a Pace this time.

Malc · Apr 06, 2008, 10:25:20

It was a pace they brought yeaterday, but it wouldn't power up, so we'll find out on Tuesday.

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 10:26:37

From the reports I've seen, Sky have few Paces available atm.

Inactive · Apr 06, 2008, 10:26:47

Just make 100% certain the the replacement box isn't an Amstrad Malc, also get the installer to fire up the replacement and show you that it is fully working.

If you have a choice, ask for another Pace one.

Malc · Apr 06, 2008, 10:28:44

I'm not too worried, as long as it lasts a year, I'm looking at the HD route as soon as the beeb thing starts next year, hopefully prices will drop a bit when sky has some competition.

Inactive · Apr 06, 2008, 10:32:05

Quote from: Malc on Apr 06, 2008, 10:28:44
I'm not too worried, as long as it lasts a year, I'm looking at the HD route as soon as the beeb thing starts next year, hopefully prices will drop a bit when sky has some competition.

The Beeb Satellite thing starts next month Malc.

Malc · Apr 06, 2008, 10:33:28

I thought it was Mar 2009 here?

That's even better, by the time this new box packs up, it should be even cheaper still.

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 10:34:45

You're confusing the DTT changeover with satelitte, Malc. Satellite is the same for everyone.

Malc · Apr 06, 2008, 10:35:54

Whats this I read about Granada region first then (Granada re North West)?

Confused.

Inactive · Apr 06, 2008, 10:37:06

That is the DTT system Malc, ( Freeview ) ..

Rik · Apr 06, 2008, 10:38:02

I don't know, Malc. The BBC/ITV venture is merely to market their own box using the existing signal from Astra 2D (and therefore it can be plugged into any Sky dish installation. I'm not sure how they are going to do the regionalisation.

Inactive · Apr 06, 2008, 10:38:22

DTT via your aerial, Satellite via your dish.