IDNet.com filtering/forwarding problems

[Zirynx]

Hi all,

After putting various questions about email alias', and the subsequent discussion in this thread:

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=6438.msg120712#msg120712

I realised that I wasn't going to be able to achieve quite what I wanted to, in terms of either a Yahoo-like 'Addressguard', or even a simpler Google 'Plus Address' function. Initially, I decided to go with the Google 'Plus Address' mechanism, as this looked very flexible, yet simple, and required no configuration, with ad hoc email 'addresses' (essentially tags to the original email address) being useable on the spot.

However, in use, I found out that quite a lot of web forms do not like the '+' character in an email address, and refuse them as invalid. Back to square 1!


So, I decided to pursue the multiple free IDNet email address option, with a system of forwarding. It's far from ideal for what I'm trying to achieve, as each additional account has to be maintained individually (in terms of creation, daylight savings time, forwarding/filtering rules etc.) particularly as I want my elderly mum to be able to 'manage' this (when I'm not around) as necessary.

Specifically though, I have run into a few particular problems, which I can neither fathom, nor fix   and am looking to the IDnetters community for some pointers, as I'm sure others will have done this.


First, I am unable to make one specific IDNet account forward to any other. It happens to be the first email account I created, so I'm wondering whether that is a factor, in terms of whether it has a 'master' account status. All the other accounts I subsequently created will happily forward to the consolidatory email account I later created.


Second, I am unable to get folder filtering to work at all, on any account. That is, if 'To' contains XXX then 'Move to Folder' XXX_Folder; or, if 'Subject' contains YYY then 'Move to folder' YYY_Folder. Has anyone else out there got this to work?

Confused!

Thanks all, in advance.

[Steve]

I created an additional folder via webmail, set up a filter rule, waited 15 mins and could not get it to work either. I have managed to get forwarding to work in the past through to my domain address.

[Zirynx]

Thanks for that - at least I now know I'm not going completely mad!

As regards forwarding (or, strictly speaking, 'redirecting') I have it working perfectly on all additional accounts I have created. But it absolutely will not work on the first account I created, (although the latter statistic may be entirely coincidental) despite deleting and re-creating the rule time and again, and waiting the obligatory 15 minutes, and more.

[Dopamine]

No answer to your question I'm afraid, but my experiences might be of interest as if I've understood you correctly, your search is prompted by a fear of spam on your mother's behalf.

I started using IDNet email addresses about 2 months ago, several of which were immediately published on websites that, without going in to any detail, are notorious for having email addresses harvested for spam purposes. My pages on these sites receive over 20,000 unique visits each day and generate dozens of legitimate emails.

My IDNet email accounts all have their spam filtering turned off, so I receive everything sent to me. Yesterday I received my first spam email since opening IDNet email accounts. Yep, that's two months before getting even one spam email. In the past I've had heavily used email accounts that have remained unfiltered yet spam free for over 9 months.

I honestly think your fear of spam is a little over-played, and that your mum would be far better served by having one email address that's easy to remember and a modicum of spam filtering if spam becomes a problem.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make light of your concerns, just recounting my experience.

[Zirynx]

Thanks for your comments, and in reality, that approach works fine for me, personally.

However, my concerns for my mum, are based on the reality of her current email address, which receives around 30-50 spam emails a day, most of which, it has to be said, are pretty unpleasant for her to encounter, and that's just the subject filed!! The vast majority are effectively filtered into a spam folder however, she still has to be faced with them, by checking through to see that nothing has been filtered which shouldn't have been, and occasionally, she does find something legitimate in there.

So, whilst I may be being a little over-zealous, I'd like to arrive at a solution which...

1) keeps her new email address spam free for as long as possible

2) provides a simple mechanism for some monitoring of which custodians of her email address are not honouring their privacy policy!

3) then provides a simple mechanism for pro-actively filtering that particular spam, preferably straight to the trash folder!

She does like to sign up to newsletters, groups and forums etc., and I have suggested in the past that she should be a little more judicious about where she leaves her email address. However, I have come to realise that this activity is a fundamental part of her internet experience, and that restricting her in this way is unfair, and gives some victory to the spammers.

Given that we are currently at the point of establishing a new email address, which will be given out to all friends and family (something she does not want to do too frequently), it seems pertinent that I should look at all ways and means of achieving the objective, and compromising only if I really need to!

For now, my main problems are the specific ones outlined in the opening post of this thread related to the IDNet.com system, that is:

1) the inability to filter email to folders, on all IDNet email accounts,

2) the inability to redirect email from one specific IDNet email account.

Any help with either of these issues would be most gratefully received.

Thanks.

[Rik]

I'm able to set up filters/forwards on all my idnet.com addresses (as well as the idnetfreemail and idnetters ones), so it might be worth deleting that first account, unless you really don't want to give it up. If the latter is the case, give support a ring tomorrow, and see if they can give it a kick for you.

Have you considered whether the IDNet spam filters might just do all that you want? I know the boundary servers have been turning away vast quantities of spam in recent weeks.

[Zirynx]

Thanks Rik. Good to know that it can be made to work then!

Annoyingly, the one email account which is proving problematic (for redirecting), is the one that she definitely wants to keep, and give out to friends & family, as it's the one which is based around her name. Sods law! I feel a call to support is in the air.

I have been wondering what happens when an IDNet.com email account is deleted, in so much as, does it then become 'available' again, at some point in the future? I could try this out, but thought I'd ask the question first, in case someone knows the answer, rather than 'take' an account unnecessarily.

[Rik]

I suspect it will be recycled at some point, but I haven't seen it happen yet - though I haven't been looking that hard either.

[Steve]

Having tried last night to filter mail to another folder and failed, I thought following reading Rik's comments I 'd try again. I can confirm today I managed to filter xxx address to my junk box on 2 idnet email accounts (including the primary) One can only guess why I failed last night

[Rik]

Forum staff email addresses, particularly the 'catch all' variants have both filtering and multiple forwarding applied, so I know it does work - I just can't explain why you had problems last night.

[Steve]

I assumed the problem was the person typing this

[Rik]

I didn't like to say that.

[Zirynx]

Thanks folks. Still no joy here though. I've deleted and re-created various filtering rules, to act upon either the 'Subject', 'To', or 'From' fields and, after the requisite 15 minute wait, all mail is still being delivered directly to the Inbox.

I have redirecting, and multiple redirecting working on all but the one email account mentioned above, so yes, I have faith in the 'system', and I suspect, as Rik says, that it just needs a kick!

[Simon]

I have just created a test account, to try to delete and recreate.  Upon deleting, I got the message below, so I guess it's safe to assume that a deleted address would not be immediately available again.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Zirynx]

First real chance I've had to sit down with a clear head to write an update to this thread, but here goes.

Before I start, I would strongly urge anyone who uses IDNet.com email to read and consider the following post very carefully!

After an incredibly frustrating day last Sunday, trying to address the aforementioned problems (namely, redirecting and filtering), I called IDNet on Monday morning and spoke to James. At this point, I have to take the time to express the thanks I have, for IDNet operating a support system where, not only is the phone consistently answered promptly and politely, but the problems in question are then worked through intelligently and methodically, and without any hint of the patronising 'script' approach adopted by so many other ISPs' CS departments.

Anyway, a 45 minute phone call later (I was pleased not to be paying for this, particularly in light of what the result turned out to be!) I had an answer as to why I had experienced the problems. I'll try and explain....

It turns out that the problem was, that my email address (the address I happened to be sending the test emails from) was (or rather, had been) in the contacts list of the 'feeder' account that I was trying to redirect from. Additionally, my email address was in the contacts list of the end target account, which was refusing to filter.

When an email address is added to the contacts list, it is automatically added to a 'white list' for that account, and that much is stated (albeit in small print!) in the email section of the customer login area.

However, it transpires that the 'white list' is effectively a rule in itself, and actually supercedes all other rules. Specifically, if an email is received from someone in your contacts list, the 'white list' rule effectively says:

"accept this email and do not process any further rules!"

It gets more interesting!

Once James had identified this behaviour, he suggested that I remove my email address from the contacts list of the account that was refusing to redirect my test emails. However, there were no (longer) any addresses in the contacts list as I had deleted them several days earlier, when I decided that this would be a 'feeder' account, redirecting into a new, 'master' account.

We then realised that the 'white list' is constructed not simply from addresses currently in the contacts list, but from email addresses that have ever been in the contacts list! At this point, James was able to arrange for the 'white list' for that account to be erased, and this 'solved' the redirect problem.

When looking at the separate filtering problem, it seems the 'white list' is also to blame, for the same reason stated above. In other words, if an email address is (or has been) in your address book at some point, then it will also be on the 'white list', and effectively render all other rules completely inoperative!

At this point, I was grateful for the news that I hadn't been going mad, and was capable of following simple instructions to set up rules, but I was (and still am) somewhat flabbergasted that the system operates in the manner it does! At the end of the 45 minute phone call, I was content that the problem had at least been identified and, although I had more questions, I didn't have the time or energy to pursue them at that time. I've arranged to follow this up with IDNet by email. But in the meantime, I'll share some of my thoughts/questions here, for the benefit/information/consultation of other users.

For example, why should the 'white list' render all other rules inoperative?

Why should email addresses entered in the contacts list automatically form the basis of the 'white list'?

Why is the 'white list' not viewable, and/or user modifiable?

Why, when an email address is removed from the contacts list, does it remain on the 'white list'?

The 'white list' is cross-referenced with the 'From' field in incoming email, but the 'From' field is easily spoofed or simply modified, so it seems unreliable for a 'master' rule!


In summary, rules (of any kind) only operate on emails received from addresses that are not (and have never been) in your contacts list!

Thoughts, anyone?!

[Simon]

It does seem a little cack handed, but as I don't use the webmail system, I can't really comment further.   

[Dopamine]

For example, why should the 'white list' render all other rules inoperative?

Because if it didn't, there would be conflicts. eg., my girlfriend, who is whitelisted, sends me an email the content of which would usually be a spam trigger. If all rules are applied, which takes precedence? The whitelist which lets me receive the email, or the spam rule which doesn't?

Why is the 'white list' not viewable, and/or user modifiable?

That's a good point though. Would be nice to have user accesible white and black lists.


As it is, I use K9 for spam filtering and don't have any ISP rules or filters in place. After a week or so's training, it is remarkably accurate. In the last 10 months, it's filtered a total of 35,177 emails with an accuracy of 99.35%. For free software that just sits and minds its own business, I think that's impressive.

http://keir.net/k9.html

[Rik]

Thoughts, anyone?!

Perhaps you would be better served using the paid for email service? From what little I know, the product is more powerful in terms of filtering arrangements than the free service. Alternatively, you could ask IDNet whether they would be willing to set you up with an idnetfreemail.co.uk address, the webmail interface for which is very different, and might be more suited to what you are trying to do. As fas as I can see, you still can't view the whitelist, but you do have more control over what goes into it.