Advice please

wonder woman · Apr 20, 2008, 13:28:47

Last Thursday BT decided to up our profile which increased our sync speed to 2720 which caused numerous disconnections.

James from support got BT to lower the profile so we were syncing in at 2176 and the line was perfectly stable and held for about 3o+ hours. We were out all day yesterday and when we got home we noticed our sync speed had increased again and the disconnections had been happening every 2/3 minutes.

E-mailed and phone support straight away and within 30 mins our the sync speed had dropped back to 2176 (problem resolved)

It was fine this morning until just after mid-day when I noticed that we had become disconnected again. I immediately checked the syncspeed and and had increased to 2720 and the line has become completly unstable and have e-mailed and phoned support again.

What I am really asking is there anyway Idnet could get BT to stop increasing the profile which is obvioulsy the cause of the problem? Hopefully something can be done about it as at the end of the day I need the line to be stable even if it means I can only download at 1700Kbps.

I am posting this from my daughters computer as she with different ISP on another line.

Simon · Apr 20, 2008, 14:14:35

Hi Christine,

I'm sure someone will be along to help you soon, but I would think, now that you've taken it up with James, it would be best to continue down the road with him, rather than us trying to interject, unless, of course, there's an obvious issue we can deal with here.

Sebby · Apr 20, 2008, 14:56:43

It's not the profile that is being adjusted, it's the target SNRM. The profile is merely determined by sync, and is not manually set (there are exceptions, e.g. if a profile becomes stuck).

I must say, though, that I'm not convinced anything has been changed. A difference of 600k is generally not enough of a drop to suggest the target SNRM has been increased by 3dB. All it sounds like is that noise is quite variable on your line, and so whilst a burst of noise would cause a re-sync, you could still potentially re-sync higher than before.

Do you know what your noise margin is immediately after a re-sync?

Rik · Apr 20, 2008, 14:59:52

Hi WW

I agree with Sebby, this isn't about profiles but noise. Can you remind me of your phone wiring please, ie how many sockets, what's connected etc?

wonder woman · Apr 20, 2008, 15:01:39

Quote from: Sebby on Apr 20, 2008, 14:56:43
It's not the profile that is being adjusted, it's the target SNRM. The profile is merely determined by sync, and is not manually set (there are exceptions, e.g. if a profile becomes stuck).

I must say, though, that I'm not convinced anything has been changed. A difference of 600k is generally not enough of a drop to suggest the target SNRM has been increased by 3dB. All it sounds like is that noise is quite variable on your line, and so whilst a burst of noise would cause a re-sync, you could still potentially re-sync higher than before.

Do you know what your noise margin is immediately after a re-sync?

I just managed to have a look after it re-sync and the noise margin was between 4db and 7db changing all the time. It's now syncing in at 2720 and still very unstable.

wonder woman · Apr 20, 2008, 15:04:23

Quote from: Rik on Apr 20, 2008, 14:59:52
Hi WW

I agree with Sebby, this isn't about profiles but noise. Can you remind me of your phone wiring please, ie how many sockets, what's connected etc?

Nothing else is connected to this line except the phone have another line for Sky and all that. James got me to take the face plate off when it was disconnecting but it made no difference.

Rik · Apr 20, 2008, 15:06:12

Thanks, I thought we'd covered this before. Unless James has a good reason not to, I'd suggest raising a fault with BT, I suspect your line needs a little TLC.

wonder woman · Apr 20, 2008, 15:07:37

It's resyncing in about every 5 minutes. After James asked them to lower the profile it worked ok until yesterday.

Rik · Apr 20, 2008, 15:08:43

It might be an idea for you to switch to a fixed 2Mbps product, what's your d/s line attenuation?

wonder woman · Apr 20, 2008, 15:10:54

Quote from: Rik on Apr 20, 2008, 15:06:12
Thanks, I thought we'd covered this before. Unless James has a good reason not to, I'd suggest raising a fault with BT, I suspect your line needs a little TLC.

Yes I will speak to James tomorrow. I have sent them 2 e-mails and I will ring them first thing in the morning. Just wished we had stayed on our fixed line, we might not have got a very fast speed but at least the line was stable. Going to be great having father and daughter sharing the same computer.

wonder woman · Apr 20, 2008, 15:15:14

Quote from: Rik on Apr 20, 2008, 15:08:43
It might be an idea for you to switch to a fixed 2Mbps product, what's your d/s line attenuation?

Our line attenuation is 50db downstream and 15.5 upstream. Do Idnet do a fixed 2Mbps product or will I have to change ISP? I know Adsl24 do a fixed line product is there anyone else?

Rik · Apr 20, 2008, 15:18:25

Hi WW

IDNet can put you on fixed 2Mbps. Whether BT will agree to it is another matter, you're line will only support 1Mbps according to BT's criteria.

Sebby · Apr 20, 2008, 15:18:32

IDNet can do a fixed 2Mb product if you ask them, but you will have to meet the necessary requirements for this service, which I think you fall short of. What I don't understand is why, if you're re-syncing every 5 minutes, the exchange has increased your target SNRM to 15dB automatically.

The profile has got nothing to do with anything. You could ask IDNet to get the target SNRM manually set a 9 or 12dB and see how you get on with that. At the moment, it doesn't look like anything has been changed on your line; I would have said the target is still 6dB.

MoHux · Apr 20, 2008, 15:55:55

Perhaps it would be usefull if WW could connect that computer to his (??) daughters line. Or vice-versa.

Can he try the daughters router with his computer?

Try swopping filters.

Mo

Sebby · Apr 20, 2008, 15:57:01

As a temporary solution, yes.

wonder woman · Apr 20, 2008, 21:42:55

Quote from: MoHux on Apr 20, 2008, 15:55:55
Perhaps it would be usefull if WW could connect that computer to his (??) daughters line. Or vice-versa.

Can he try the daughters router with his computer?

Try swopping filters.

Mo

Our daughters computer is not on Adsl Max but still on a 512K connection which considering she is with the dreaded Tiscali (ex Freedom to Surf) is quite a reliable one.

We have also tried new filters but no luck.

As the sync speed has dropped with the noise margin at 12 we have managed to stay connected for 6 hours. Will speak to James tomorrow to see what con be done about this problem. Thanks for all your help and advice and sorry it I am not very good with all this computer talk.

Lance · Apr 20, 2008, 22:29:52

Let up know how you get on!

wonder woman · Apr 21, 2008, 16:48:23

Quote from: Lance on Apr 20, 2008, 22:29:52
Let up know how you get on!

James got BT to put our line on a fixed 2 Meg connections but we still keep losing our connections. So under James instructions we tried another router and the same thing keep happening. So we have left it in James capable hands and get BT to check our line. Hopefully we will get this problem sorted out soon.

Rik · Apr 21, 2008, 16:51:10

What noise margin are you getting on the fixed-rate connection? If that's still dropping out, it might be that your line really will only support the 1Mbps that BT say it will. I'm still betting on a line fault, though.

Sebby · Apr 21, 2008, 16:51:45

So the changeover to fixed 2Mb actually happened already? It's got to be a line fault if it keeps disconnecting.

What are your stats on the 2Mb service incidentally?

wonder woman · Apr 21, 2008, 17:02:06

Quote from: Sebby on Apr 21, 2008, 16:51:45
So the changeover to fixed 2Mb actually happened already? It's got to be a line fault if it keeps disconnecting.

What are your stats on the 2Mb service incidentally?

The change over to 2Meg happened straight away but James did warn us if the line was the problem we wouldn't be able to connect. Unfortuately he was correct. He must dread it when he hears my voice when he answers the phone.

Not at home at the mo but I will have a look and use my daughters computer to post the stats. James is hoping that they will be able to rectify the fault from the exchange if not he will ask for an engineer to come to our home and check the line into the house.

Rik · Apr 21, 2008, 17:04:34

It would be interesting to know the line stats from your daughter's connection, Christine. If that line is performing better and BT can't find the fault on yours, they might be able to swap the pairs over.

Sebby · Apr 21, 2008, 17:12:42

Whatever the cause, hopefully BT will admit there's a fault now and fix it quickly!

wonder woman · Apr 21, 2008, 17:51:16

Quote from: Sebby on Apr 21, 2008, 17:12:42
Whatever the cause, hopefully BT will admit there's a fault now and fix it quickly!

Fingers crossed so do I. It's driving us up the wall. Just wished we had stayed on the fixed 1 Meg line. It might not have been very fast but as least it was stable.

Rik · Apr 21, 2008, 18:04:23

You'll get back to stability, Christine, James has got his teeth into BT now.

wonder woman · Apr 22, 2008, 12:26:22

A BT Engineer is coming out to us tormorrow. Decided to have one more go at taking face plate, changed filters but still no luck. Hopefully he will be able to sort something out.

Rik · Apr 22, 2008, 12:33:41

Toes crossed for you, Christine. Let us know how it goes.

Sebby · Apr 22, 2008, 13:12:50

Fingers crossed; let's hope they find a fault this time!

wonder woman · Apr 23, 2008, 13:17:54

Well yes they found a fault (not in the house) but can't repair because he ran out of time

. I know it wasnt his fault but it's a bit annoying that the job couldn't be completed because BT only gives them 2 hours each job. James has told me BT have sent it to there special ADSL team to have a look into the problem. I bet he wishes we had never picked Idnet as our ISP.

Sebby · Apr 23, 2008, 13:23:41

That's good news! Finally, the fault should be fixed. I'm sure James doesn't mind - he loves to help.

wonder woman · Apr 23, 2008, 13:26:25

Quote from: Sebby on Apr 23, 2008, 13:23:41
That's good news! Finally, the fault should be fixed. I'm sure James doesn't mind - he loves to help.

Yeah right I am sure he must dread the phoning ringing and it's me on the phone.

Rik · Apr 23, 2008, 14:17:24

I'm sure he doesn't, Christine.

Lance · Apr 23, 2008, 17:22:56

Did BT say what the fault is at all?

wonder woman · Apr 23, 2008, 21:32:59

Quote from: Lance on Apr 23, 2008, 17:22:56
Did BT say what the fault is at all?

He just couldn't get it to sync in when he attached his modem/router to the box outside the bungalow. He opened 2 of the covers in the street and still couldn't get it to sync in. He had tested from the exchange to a junction box just up the road and said it was ok to there so he said there must be a problem from the junction box to our bungalow. (Hope that makes sense) He then said that his time had run out and would have to report to get another engineer to look into the matter. Then James phones me and said that the special ADSL team where looking into for us. Hopefully they will be able to sort something out soon as this b***dy flashing light is driving me up the wall.

Lance · Apr 23, 2008, 22:52:01

Thanks for that. Hopefully Bt will relay the dodgy part of the cable, or move you onto a known good cable. Should mean that you end up with a lovely fast connection!

Simon · Apr 23, 2008, 23:05:14

Quote from: wonder woman on Apr 23, 2008, 13:26:25
Yeah right I am sure he must dread the phoning ringing and it's me on the phone.

He's just relieved it's not Rik, Christine!

Rik · Apr 24, 2008, 08:29:00

wonder woman · Apr 24, 2008, 14:02:49

Quote from: Lance on Apr 23, 2008, 22:52:01
Thanks for that. Hopefully Bt will relay the dodgy part of the cable, or move you onto a known good cable. Should mean that you end up with a lovely fast connection!

Well spoke to Andrew today and they have decided to down grade our line to a 1 meg connection. They said that we were far to far from the exchange to get anything better. They told Andrew that they were going to do it on the 1st May but Andrew said he wanted it down more quickly than that and they will do it know on Monday. Just cant understand why we got such good speeds when we first joined. As we don't play games and don't download too much hopefully it won't effect us too much. They did tell Andrew that they would mark the line to keep a check on it to see if goes back to being stable. Hubby aint very happy with BT as he said that as the engineer said there was a fault on the line how the hell down graded it aint going to put it right. Well we will see what happens.

Rik · Apr 24, 2008, 14:34:22

Do you know if there's been any development of industrial units, say, between you and the exchange, Christine? I'm wondering if there is a physical explanation as to why the line has become more susceptible to noise. Are you near any railway lines?

I think that BT have decided that your line simply cannot support Max, which is sensitive to noise fluctuation, and the 1Mbps service is the correct one for your line attenuation. Hopefully, it will restore stability, and IDNet can then keep an eye on it to see whether moving you back to Max is feasible.

Unfortunately, line quality is a massive intangible. I have a 56db attenuation, but the cable is fully underground and I can maintain a sync of ~3500k with a target margin of 9db, and this gives me a 3000 profile. On a 50db line of the same quality, I'd expect to see an extra 700-1000k of sync. Clearly, this simply isn't happening in your case.

The only other thing I can think to try is a 2-Wire 2700 router. Many of us have found them to have almost miraculous properties on poor lines.

wonder woman · Apr 24, 2008, 14:53:14

Well we will see what happens. We were on a 1 meg line with our previous ISP so if the line is still not stable then there must be something really wrong with the line. If we can't be on ADSL Max then that's not a real problem we just want the line to become stable. It's been a real nightmare having father and daughter share them same computer.

Rik · Apr 24, 2008, 14:55:06

Hopefully, you'll get a stable 1M line with no problems, Christine.

Sebby · Apr 24, 2008, 17:32:29

Yep, fingers crossed. It might not be the fastest connection, but stability is better.

wonder woman · Apr 28, 2008, 15:08:25

We are still waiting for the 1 Meg line to get up and running. Spoke to Andrew a few minutes ago and he said BT said that they had over run with the work (sounds like Network rail perhaps there are leaves on the line

) and hopefully it should be done by this time tomorrow.

What is they say all good things comes to those who wait.

Rik · Apr 28, 2008, 15:10:29

The leaves on your line are a 2Mbps service, Christine.

Sebby · Apr 28, 2008, 17:25:27

Hopefully not too much longer to wait.

wonder woman · Apr 29, 2008, 07:09:09

I'm back folks. 8)

Just to let you know that it appears I have been switched over to the 1mb fixed line and

at the moment the connection has held. Just want to say a big

to eveyone for their help (especially Rik as he must have dread opening his PM'S

).

Hopefully I won't have to bother any of you again for a while.

Simon · Apr 29, 2008, 08:02:39

That's good news, WW. Don't be afraid to 'bother' us with other stuff though!

Sebby · Apr 29, 2008, 08:27:37

Excellent news. We're always happy to help.

Rik · Apr 29, 2008, 08:30:06

Quote from: wonder woman on Apr 29, 2008, 07:09:09
especially Rik as he must have dread opening his PM'S

Not in the least, Christine. Yell if you need us, but hopefully you should be OK now.