Is Video destroying the net?

[Gary]

Nice little article on the idea that all the bandwidth available may be sucked up in two years, Ironically its on the BBC site, their player being one of the reasons that bigger pipes are needed, story here

[Tacitus]

Nice little article on the idea that all the bandwidth available may be sucked up in two years, Ironically its on the BBC site, their player being one of the reasons that bigger pipes are needed, story here

I think there's a lot of PR stuff going on at present as the Telcos, particularly BT, position themselves to get government (or at least someone else's) money to update their networks.  AT&T is just another one getting in line.

[Gary]

I think there's a lot of PR stuff going on at present as the Telcos, particularly BT, position themselves to get government (or at least someone else's) money to update their networks.  AT&T is just another one getting in line.

I doubt anything would grind to a halt, but it seems bizarre getting new features which gobble up bandwidth then moan you have none left, actually that's a bit like car production and the petroleum industry's available resources, so maybe not

[madasahatter]

As has been said before, the moaning is mainly coming from ISPs who aren't happy because they're customers are actually daring to use the services that they advertise, and are supposed to provide.

"So, you've paid for internet access - how dare you do anything except surf a bit and send the odd monthly e-mail - tut - anyone would have thought we'd told you that you could actually use your connection as you like - tut - the liberties that some peeps take eh?" 

[Rik]

I think there's a lot of PR stuff going on at present as the Telcos, particularly BT, position themselves to get government (or at least someone else's) money to update their networks.  AT&T is just another one getting in line.

I agree, there will be a lot of posturing about this as it represents big money for someone to find. Personally, while I have some sympathy with the argument that users pay for a 'net connection and should be able to use it as they wish, I am also aware that broadcasters are using the 'net as a low-cost alternative to other transmission methods, and I believe that they should meet some of the cost or face having their content throttled. An ISP like IDNet has a pricing model which will allow users to do what they want, for a price. People like Tiscali, otoh, can't afford to support VoD with their business model. The big issue, though, to me is that unless BT provide more capacity on their backhaul, everything will grind to a halt.

[Gary]

I agree, there will be a lot of posturing about this as it represents big money for someone to find. Personally, while I have some sympathy with the argument that users pay for a 'net connection and should be able to use it as they wish, I am also aware that broadcasters are using the 'net as a low-cost alternative to other transmission methods, and I believe that they should meet some of the cost or face having their content throttled. An ISP like IDNet has a pricing model which will allow users to do what they want, for a price. People like Tiscali, otoh, can't afford to support VoD with their business model. The big issue, though, to me is that unless BT provide more capacity on their backhaul, everything will grind to a halt.

So thats back to 56k then, over adsl2+ Rik

[Rik]

It could happen, Gary. Ultimately, the weakest part of the link will determine speeds, and that could well turn out to be BT.

[madasahatter]

But surely BT providing more bandwidth on their backhaul is down to agreements between them and the ISPs? If the ISPs order more, I'm sure BT will supply.

Yes, this will cost the ISP, but I have no sympathy for the likes of Tiscali with their "pile it high sell it cheap" mentality. They offer a service, and they should provide that service - they know that providing that service is gonnna include their users downloading video so they should plan for that, and price their products accordingly.

To moan that their users are actually using the service that they are supposed to be providing is utter junk to me I'm afraid.

[Gary]

It could happen, Gary. Ultimately, the weakest part of the link will determine speeds, and that could well turn out to be BT.

If its down to BT I fear for the future, we look so backward compared with the Japanese and their BB systems 

[Rik]

But you can understand BT's POV with the restrictions Ofcom put on them.

[Gary]

But you can understand BT's POV with the restrictions Ofcom put on them.

I think the UK will always be behind the times sadly Rik

[Rik]

It's down to the layers of bureaucracy we put into things and the lack of understanding by our politicians.

[Gary]

It's down to the layers of bureaucracy we put into things and the lack of understanding by our politicians.

Indeed it is Rik, and its so entrenched in the British ideology now from consecutive governments , nothing will change it I fear

[Glenn]

The Buggles were wrong in the early 80's, Video didn't kill the radio star

[Tacitus]

It's down to the layers of bureaucracy we put into things and the lack of understanding by our politicians.

I'm not really convinced by that although you have a point.  I'm more inclined to believe it's our business mentality, which consists of investing as little as you can get away with whilst extracting the maximum possible, from the business.  That encourages the 'pile it high sell it cheap' attitude. 

All Tiscali are doing, albeit not very successfully,  is extracting as much as they can before they sell it on and run. 

Managing growth is a tricky business and we can only hope iDnet get it right.  Zen seem to have managed it, but I suspect they may have received some regional development money, which must have helped.  I'm inclined to think the iDnet/Zen business model or some variant of it, is probably the one the majority of ISPs will ultimately have to follow.  Until we get FTTH, if that ever happens, bandwidth is not infinite.

[Rik]

I'm not really convinced by that although you have a point.  I'm more inclined to believe it's our business mentality, which consists of investing as little as you can get away with whilst extracting the maximum possible, from the business.  That encourages the 'pile it high sell it cheap' attitude.

Which reflects, or is reflected in, Government policies. The Victorians built things to last forever, these days we only seem to care that they last till the next election.

[Tacitus]

Which reflects, or is reflected in, Government policies. The Victorians built things to last forever, these days we only seem to care that they last till the next election.

Absolutely true.  Many of the sewers in use today in our major cities are the ones the Victorians built.  Give them a good repair job and they'll probably last another 100 years.

Interestingly I took a walk round my home town the other week and looked at the major buildings the Victorian entrepreneurs had donated to the town.  The current local boy made good, a property developer - what else, was lauded in the local rag for 'giving the town a new shopping centre'.  On which he made a profit of course.  Whatever happened to genuine philanthropy.

Building Jerusalem: The Rise and Fall of the Victorian City by Tristram Hunt is an interesting, if rather academic, read for anyone interested in the decline of our major cities.

[Rik]

Whatever happened to genuine philanthropy.

It died out when people lost their sense of belonging - something I believe the Victorians had in abundance.

[Noreen]

From a Japanese member of an American forum to which I belong.

If interested in 1.2 gbps, come to Japan, it is expected to start from July!

[Rik]

They're only trying to make us jealous...





... and succeeding!! 

[Dazbobaby]

From a Japanese member of an American forum to which I belong.

How dare they? The Cheek of it, BT invented BB and gave it away (ofcom told them too) and they run rampant.

I was told by a BT engineer a long time ago, that, BT invented broadband, but due to competition rules, ofcom forced them to give away the technology. It's frightening the speed capabilities of other countries, yet here we are, debating our ability to receive just 8-24mbits.

back on topic, idnet advertise a connection to iplayer, does this mean that I can download from the beeb and not affect my download limit?

[Rik]

back on topic, idnet advertise a connection to iplayer, does this mean that I can download from the beeb and not affect my download limit?

No, it just means they have direct peering with the BBC.

[Lance]

It's more relevant for the new BBC multicast (trail) connections. Unless the ISP is (expensively) peered to the BBC, the user can't view the multicast content. The benefits of multicast for the end user is that the quality is much higher. The benefits for the Beeb is that it uses less bandwidth at their end!

[Dazbobaby]

Thanks Rik and Lance, I don't use it much... thought for a second there, that I could suddenly go mad with it.

[Rik]

You can - it will still cost you though.