Really bad speed, anything else I could try?

[Bzs]

Hey guys, I've not had to post for assistance since back when we were all on the old ADSLGuide forums and before I moved to IDNet during the Great Freedom2Surf Migration™, but over the past few days my speeds have crashed to terrible levels, I think I've covered everything I can do here myself but before I get a reply to my support request I thought I'd ask to see if I'd forgotten anything obvious.

First of all, background info;

We only have one phone socket in the house, to that I have connected a microfilter, and from the filter runs a ~20 meter regular extension for the phone, and a ~15 meter dsl cable into the router (a Speedtouch 526) which is next to the PC.

Normally I get really good speed, usually syncing at 7000+ and getting 750k/sec download speeds unless its peak time where it'll drop to 500k/sec, over the last couple of days I noticed websites loading slower than normal and downloads from big sites topping at 120k/sec if that, so I started doing speedtests and watching the router stats.

Today has been particularly bad, here are the offending numericals:

Date     11/05/08 10:13:24
Speed Down    628.26 Kbps ( 0.6 Mbps )
Speed Up    377.60 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port    8095
Server    speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk

Date     11/05/08 10:38:18
Speed Down    226.67 Kbps ( 0.2 Mbps )
Speed Up    376.38 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port    8095
Server    speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk

Date     11/05/08 12:16:38
Speed Down    67.55 Kbps ( 0.1 Mbps )
Speed Up    376.50 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port    8095
Server    speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk

And finally to top it off at 1:30pm from the BT test:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  8032 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 20 kbps

This test was not conclusive and further testing is required.

I couldnt proceed to the other tests because it just timed out constantly, the router stats for the morning were:

Link Information
         
Uptime:   0 days, 2:38:30
Modulation:   G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:   448 / 8,032
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]:   9.80 / 58.54
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:   12.0 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:   22.5 / 42.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:   22.0 / 9.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote):   TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):   0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):   11 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):   50 / 8,637
CRC Errors (Up/Down):   6 / 392
HEC Errors (Up/Down):   4 / 12

Now, on to things I've tried, first I rebooted the router, then left it off for a night, a long shot but no luck. I then went on to look at noise and wiring, plugged the router directly into the socket behind the BT faceplate, it didnt seem to do much:

Link Information
         
Uptime:   0 days, 0:02:19
Modulation:   G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:   448 / 7,712
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]:   1.38 / 1.57
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:   12.0 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:   21.0 / 38.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:   21.0 / 9.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote):   TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):   0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):   1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 671
CRC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 6
HEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 2

Date     11/05/08 17:24:17
Speed Down    270.60 Kbps ( 0.3 Mbps )
Speed Up    376.57 Kbps ( 0.4 Mbps )
Port    8095
Server    speedtest1.adslguide.org.uk

I swapped my router out for an older model speedtouch and tried both direct to the master socket and using my long cable as normal, no joy. I've tried 4 different microfilters, every possible combination of cable I can think of and I've made no progress. Contention I expect but this seems a bit extreme, I think I've exhausted what I can do without guidance from support now, but if anyone has any ideas and hasnt gone crazy from reading the huge amount of numbers up there, I would value any expertise

[Rik]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

My initial thought is that the 15m RJ11 cable is a bad idea. Could you try using a short RJ11 cable and a long ethernet cable to see if that helps. You have interleaving on, and a fairly high error rate, and your target margin looks to have been raised, so eliminating the possibility of noise pickup in the cable would be a good move.

The lower sync speed in the test socket is puzzling and does suggest sporadic noise.

Have you tried unplugging the phone extension? Is there any improvement if you do?

There has been a trend, of late, for lines to show degradation - the belief is that it's caused by more people using ADSL and, hence, more crostalk in the ducts. Attenuation also increases in warm weather, which doesn't help.

The other thing to try is to use a battery-powered MW radio, and tune it off station, so you just have white noise. Walk around with that, particularly near the phone line, router and computer and listen for any increase in the noise level.

[Sebby]

What Rik said really. The stats look okay, the profile is okay, it's just throughput. This is often due to a high number of errors, but yours aren't particularly high. I think this might be one for IDNet.

[Bzs]

My initial thought is that the 15m RJ11 cable is a bad idea. Could you try using a short RJ11 cable and a long ethernet cable to see if that helps..

Sorry I should have said that, yeah the long cable probably isnt ideal so whenever I tried using the master socket I dragged the router down there and used ethernet to hook back to the PC.

I tried unplugging the phone extension too, made no difference to the noise value at all sadly.

I'll see if I can find an old radio somewhere, thanks fellas

[Rik]

You've done everything I would, except for the radio. If that doesn't show up any noise (monitors and PSUs can be bad) then have a word with support and they can test the line for you.

[Simon]

Let us know how you get on, and 

[Tacitus]

The other thing to try is to use a battery-powered MW radio, and tune it off station, so you just have white noise. Walk around with that, particularly near the phone line, router and computer and listen for any increase in the noise level. 

As an aside I tried this with a MW radio and got an increase in noise near to the router.  This suggested to me that the router itself was producing noise - presumably RF. 

Is it likely that the router will produce noise?

[Pez]

I just thought I'd mention that for the past few days I've been getting some seirous speed issues, it's up and down constantly and I can't find a reason why either

[Simon]

If you've eliminated anything internally which could be causing it, the best course of action is to contact IDNet. 

[Pez]

I just did a test on speedtest.net and my download speed was fine, but my ping was abnormally high. Generally what would the reasoning be behind that? It's really odd because nothing has changed within the household, yet a couple of days ago, it just started!

Here's some stats:

Code Select Expand

Log created by Check.bat on 11/05/2008

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131] with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=93ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=115ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=258ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=471ms TTL=122


Ping statistics for 212.58.224.131:

    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),

Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:

    Minimum = 93ms, Maximum = 471ms, Average = 234ms

Ping Complete.




Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1   307 ms   111 ms    87 ms  cust119-dsl91-135-12.idnet.net IP ADDRESS REMOVED
  2    36 ms    22 ms    79 ms  telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3   195 ms   108 ms   102 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
  4    66 ms   434 ms   221 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
  5   138 ms    23 ms   177 ms  212.58.238.153
  6    50 ms    58 ms   139 ms  rdirwww-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]

Trace complete.




Edit: IP address removed

[Sebby]

I would contact IDNet as I don't think there's anything obviously wrong.

[Rik]

Hi Pez

I've removed your IP address from the tracert. What router are you using? If it's not a Speedtouch, that first hop troubles me.

[Lance]

I didn't even notice the IP! 

[Rik]

It was a bit obscured by the tracert, but the first hop looked odd, and then I realised why...

[Pez]

I'm using a Zyxel 660HW-T1, but Im using a USB wireless adapter to connect to it! I've just done another check and my pings are still eratic!

Code Select Expand

Log created by Check.bat on 12/05/2008

Pinging bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=24ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=122
Reply from 212.58.224.131: bytes=32 time=50ms TTL=122

Ping statistics for 212.58.224.131:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 177ms, Average = 74ms

Ping Complete.



Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]

over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  cust119-dsl91-135-12.idnet.net [IP REMOVED]
  2   427 ms   124 ms    76 ms  telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3   117 ms    73 ms    54 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
  4   148 ms    79 ms    48 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
  5    22 ms   164 ms   108 ms  212.58.238.153
  6   101 ms    24 ms    22 ms  rdirwww-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]

Trace complete.

[Rik]

Can you try a cable connection to eliminate any possible wireless issues from the equation?

[Pez]

Ok I couldn't ocnnect my PC up cos it's in a diff room, but here is the tracert details after connecting my laptop direct to the router:

Code Select Expand

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  cust119-dsl91-135-12.idnet.net [MEH]
  2    44 ms    46 ms    25 ms  telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3   100 ms    90 ms   151 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
  4    29 ms    30 ms    26 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
  5   188 ms    25 ms    25 ms  212.58.238.153
  6    28 ms    24 ms    24 ms  rdirwww-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]

Trace complete.

P.S. Sorry for hijacking this thread :p

[Rik]

Our threads are always hijacked - usually by food.

My trace looks like this:

tracert www.bbc.co.uk

Tracing route to www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.228.41]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms     1 ms    <1 ms  home [192.168.1.254]
  2    25 ms    23 ms    23 ms  telehouse-gw2-lo2.idnet.net [212.69.63.55]
  3    24 ms    23 ms    23 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]
  4    27 ms    23 ms    23 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
  5    24 ms    23 ms    23 ms  212.58.238.153
  6    28 ms    25 ms    23 ms  212.58.238.36
  7    27 ms    27 ms    23 ms  pos6-0.rt1.mh.bbc.co.uk [212.58.239.254]
  8    27 ms    27 ms    23 ms  www4.mh.bbc.co.uk [212.58.228.41]

Trace complete.

Only hop 3 is significantly better. I'd suggest running something like ping Graph for several hours (up to 24 hours) to see if the issue is sporadic or there is a pattern. Let support have the graphs and logs and they can take a look for you. It does look like your local wireless setup might be part of the problem though.

Ping Graph can be downloaded from: http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/moreinternet/files.htm

[Pez]

Just done another tracert, and it's worse:

Code Select Expand

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1     1 ms     1 ms     1 ms  cust119-dsl91-135-12.idnet.net [SECRET ;)]
  2   158 ms    23 ms    39 ms  telehouse-gw2-lo1.idnet.net [212.69.63.51]
  3   130 ms    97 ms    22 ms  telehouse-gw3-g0-1-400.idnet.net [212.69.63.243]

  4    73 ms    25 ms    22 ms  rt-lonap-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk [193.203.5.90]
  5    62 ms    42 ms    61 ms  212.58.238.153
  6   222 ms    45 ms    28 ms  rdirwww-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.224.131]

Trace complete.

Thanks for link! Is there a recommended link to ping or not?

[Rik]

Run Ping Graph, set it to plot on a scale of 20-50ms, and to log every ping over 50. That will give you a good idea of the average from the graph, while the log will show the worst case responses.