All your data belong to us

[kinmel]

Nu Labour have thought of a new computer database to waste millions on

BBC News

[Lance]

Let's hope the bill never gets through

[JB]

Nu Labour have thought of a new computer database to waste millions on

The irony of this is that anybody who really has anything to hide will use some form of encrypted email which at best will take a very long time and massive resources to 'crack', if at all.

JB.

[Malc]

This is 'big brother's watching you' taken to the extreme

[Rik]

Can you imagine the size of the database? The processing power it will require. I'm not in the least bit worried about it - with the Govt's record on IT, it will never work, and will take the next 50 years to agree a spec.

[Malc]

As long as when they loose the files they don't fall into the wrong hands.

[Rik]

I'm not sure, in this instance, that too many people would want them, Malc. Extracting useful data would be simply too time consuming.

[Noreen]

As I understand it, the actual content of the communication won't be recorded.

[Rik]

So just a record of call time and number called? That should interest the telephone marketers.

[Malc]

And anyone who's spying on the wives / husbands / lover 

[Rik]

Private detectives could have a field day.

[john]

Sounds like its time to start investing in Disk Drive companies as they're going to need a lot of disk space to hold even just the details. It sounds a bit extreme and to be honest with the Governments track record of IT projects I can't see it ever working effectively and I doubt whether they'd be interested in my phone calls or e-mails anyway.

Now if they were going to extend it to include the Idnetters Forum 

[Rik]

We'd drive them mad looking for secret codes in our posts, John.

[john]

We'd drive them mad looking for secret codes in our posts, John.

Shsssh, don't let them even think it Rik, however I'm still not worried as the secret codes in my posts are so secret even I don't know they're there 

[Gary]

Wonder how that will effect adsl bandwidth across the nation as it logs all our calls and downloads them? We all know they tap as and when they want but exactly how long would these records be kept? I guess Phorm and that other nasty have computers covered so this just cleans up the few loose ends 

[Rik]

Shsssh, don't let them even think it Rik, however I'm still not worried as the secret codes in my posts are so secret even I don't know they're there 

Ah, but we do...

[john]

Ah, but we do...

[merlin]

wonder if it will be as good as that medical marvel, that's going to centralise all medical records.

at the moment its 4 years behind schedule and way over budget, reports say it has a few minor blips ??

or the other one that will control the sky's over uk, that one seems to have dropped off the end of the earth, after being countless years behind and again way over budget

surely someone must be responsible , heads should roll big time .

[Rik]

Heads should roll, Bob, but they never seem to. The UK's record on IT is pitiful. 

[Dangerjunkie]

Assuming this thing works (a big "if", I know) this represents a serious extension of powers. With the laws currently being enacted IDNet will have to keep our data for a year, after which they are free to destroy it (and probably will since it's not making them money any more and keeping it costs money.)

The Government have enough empty facilities that they could store this stuff for decades potentially. It probably wouldn't be online for them but if they know which warehouse the tape of interest is in then they stand a chance of being able to find it (the warehouse... possibly the tape too if they're really in luck.)

With the current regime if any of us was to be suspected of involvement in a serious crime our records could be pulled from IDNet and our phone provider to investigate a specific crime. Records would be generated that these searches had happened and providers would quickly realise if the requests were being used as a scatter gun due to the numbers of them.

If the data was in the Government's hands they would be free to use it to conduct fishing expeditions and pattern-match it against us all (as I believe is already done by BT if you happen to have called or got a call from "someone of interest".)  There would be no realistic control against abuse. It could be used against political opponents almost without fear of detection. I'm not saying this is being introduced with the intent of it being abused but there is no way to speak for what a future Government might do with it.

I'm all for us being able to sleep sound in our beds but this is a step to far for me...

Cheers,
Paul.

[Rik]

Paranoia meets politics, Paul.

[Baz]

wouldnt surprise me if its already been done

here

[Rik]

Not to mention all the satellites, Baz.

[Baz]

frightening.......

[Rik]

Have you looked at this one:

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=8270.msg182954#msg182954

[Baz]

yeah saw that.

its getting worse isnt it who knows what they already do

[Rik]

They say that, on average, you will be caught on CCTV 300 times every day. Orwell understated his case.

[D-Dan]

I have no objection to data being retained in principal. What I do object to is that the data is retained without my explicit consent or, in many cases, knowledge, despite the fact that I am innocent of any crime. The philosophy being employed in modern Britain is that we are ALL potential terrorists, or to put it another way, guilty until proven innocent.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't British justice supposed to work the other way around. The US works the other way around, where once accused you prove your innocence, which is why we remain an independant state (not a state of the US).

The last time the UK employed this type of mentality, thousands of woman either drowned or were burned, depending on whether they were "innocent" or "guilty" of witchcraft.

And then they wonder why I encrypt internet traffic, only use encrypted torrents (which are typically nothing more than the latest Linux distro), and while I'll make a long overdue return to PGP for email.

And maybe while the government are on a wild goose chase trying to figure out why I'm so secretive, the next Guy Fawkes will arrive from the Middle East and succeed where the original one failed, which may restore a little sanity.

Steve

[Rik]

Sanity and politics sadly don't belong in the same sentence any more, Steve.

[merlin]

BAZ mentioned menwith hill , theres another almost equally large base here ,doing the same thing its called FELTWELL norfolk,
situated adjacent to LAKENHEATH and MILDENHALL ,the two biggest airfields in england, both run by Americans

and both flying aircraft capable of carrying atomic weapons

its often been suspected of storing atomic weapons , but never admitted, when the Americans are asked they denigh all knowledge
of such things !!!!

these bases are massive and control the whole area, thats not done for nothing, the perimeter fences have cameras all around, and an electronic proximity system as well, plus armed guards here there and everywhere

this does not mean anything sinister is there 

[Baz]

the more you look into that link about Menwith hill the more worrying it gets....you just dont know what is going on.

its like the X files isnt it. The guy behind that said a lot of it was 'fact based' 

[Sebby]

Scary.

[john]

And then they wonder why I encrypt internet traffic, only use encrypted torrents (which are typically nothing more than the latest Linux distro), and while I'll make a long overdue return to PGP for email.

And maybe while the government are on a wild goose chase trying to figure out why I'm so secretive, the next Guy Fawkes will arrive from the Middle East and succeed where the original one failed, which may restore a little sanity.

Steve

If they ever do get it to work then most people won't even appear on their radar. The ones that do and will attract further investigation are those that encrypt their e-mails even to act as decoys and those who think that welcoming terrorists to blow up the Government is a sane idea. 

[Dazbobaby]

all it will do is generate a market for encryption. Normal and less er.. paranoid people will continue without, but the civil liberties people will encrypt. 128bit is soo strong and fast that it will never be decrypted, and thats before you mention 512bit.

But who monitors the monitors?
@ Noreen, as far as I had heard, conversations WILL be recorded, and currently are. Otherwise the information is practically useless without the context.

As for the governments chances to actually get this live and working - NILL, especially if cdroms are involved.

TBH, Labours history of IT projects is appallingly dismall, so much so, that I wonder if the contracts are going to friends of labour as a way of saying thankyou for helping us get into power, ie, paying them back for loans.

[madasahatter]

As I understand it, the actual content of the communication won't be recorded.

But then that kind of negates the whole point of the exercise doesn't it? if this is an anti terrorist measure, then surely the fact that you've called or e-mailed a particular person isn't really enough to do anything with?

To my mind, this is another stupid idea from a stupid Goevrnment who want to see and control our every move, and think that if they say that it's anti terrorist we'll all roll over and play ball.

Don't forget, this is the same Government who brought in anti terrorist laws, under which a member of it's own party was forcibly ejected from it's party conference and arrested for simply telling Tony Blair what he thought of him!! 

[Dangerjunkie]

But then that kind of negates the whole point of the exercise doesn't it? if this is an anti terrorist measure, then surely the fact that you've called or e-mailed a particular person isn't really enough to do anything with?

On the contrary... When your good friend is arrested for being a paedophile (something which you knew nothing about) and they examine his records they will see he has regular contact with you and your mobiles are often both in your house. I'm sure you won't mind that 6am sledge hammer visit in order to protect the children...

Don't forget, this is the same Government who brought in anti terrorist laws, under which a member of it's own party was forcibly ejected from it's party conference and arrested for simply telling Tony Blair what he thought of him!! 

I'm just waiting for them to introduce the crime of "electoral terrorism" - The act attempting to overthrow the "legitimate" Government of the country by voting for someone else or inducing others to do so.

Cheers,
Paul.

[Rik]

An interesting, and not unheard of, concept, Paul. 

[Dangerjunkie]

Did you know that every ballot paper has a unique number and when they write your electoral roll number down at the polling station they put it with the number of the paper they gave you? They can see who you voted for. All they have to do it get the stack of ballots for a party they don't like (like they used to do with the Communist Party) and go back to the list and they get a list of "subversives."

To prevent ballot stuffing I'd have no objection to every book of 100 papers all having the same number so they could say "95 ballots from that book were used, we have 95 in the box, 4 left in the book and 1 spoilt so that's OK " I once decided I wanted to make a protest by voting for one of the more controversial candidates in an election but I felt unable to because it could be traced back to me.

Cheers,
Paul.

[Rik]

Yes, I've always known that our secret ballot is not secret - just one more lie we get told.

[Noreen]

Yes, I've always known that our secret ballot is not secret - just one more lie we get told.

It has been like that for many years and has applied under governments of various political flavours. It also applies in most "democratic" countries, I believe that it is a requirement for some technical reason although offhand I can't remember what it is.

[Rik]

I believe the technical reason is known as keeping us in our place, Noreen.

[Noreen]

Read this to clarify matters a bit. http://www.kerrins.co.uk/blog/2008/05/secret-ballot/

[madasahatter]

Interesting article Noreen- thanks 

[Rik]

Interesting, but the possibilities still exist. I certainly don't have enough faith in politicians to believe that it will never be exploited.