Disconnects...

Danni · Nov 19, 2006, 15:56:10

This is more of a rant at Johny more than anything else, but hopefully you lot will have some suggestions.

Every evening from 6pm-2am we suffer multiple disconnects, sometimes as many as 10-20 an hour. I'm not allowed to move the router and modem (master socket is in the middle of the stairs, so it's not practical), disconnect anything (such as phones or sky boxes) or basically mess with any of the hardware. All I'm allowed to touch is software. He also refuses to ring IDNet during the times we're not having a problem.

Anyone got any suggestions on making the connection more stable without messing with hardware? Interleaving is already on.

maxping · Nov 19, 2006, 16:42:26

Is the connection rock solid before and after the times you have mentioned?

Danni · Nov 19, 2006, 16:48:55

Not rock solid, but there are a lot less disconnections- maybe 1 or 2 every few hours.

Bill · Nov 19, 2006, 16:49:41

Hit him over the head, then ring IDNet

maxping · Nov 19, 2006, 16:53:06

Bills right how are you going to sort the problem if you cannot touch the hardware ?
It may be a faulty filter , wire or a combination of things.

cavillas · Nov 19, 2006, 19:18:05

Mucking about with hardware is no longer a male thing. In fact males are more likely to muck hardware up then the females, female are precise and tend to see the larger picture. He should stop being a male chauvenist. Hardware doesn't mean "hard" it means to complex for the simple minds of some men.

Inactive · Nov 20, 2006, 00:43:15

Quote from: cavillas on Nov 19, 2006, 19:18:05
Hardware doesn't mean "hard" it means to complex for the simple minds of some men.

OUCH !!! ...

Rik · Nov 20, 2006, 15:13:21

Quote from: Danni on Nov 19, 2006, 15:56:10Anyone got any suggestions on making the connection more stable without messing with hardware? Interleaving is already on.

An indirect answer, but if you can persuade Danny to look at the master socket, is there a wire connected to terminal 3, often orange/white? If there is, it's the ring wire, totally unnecessary and often the cause of a lot of line noise being picked up (it acts as an aerial), hence the drops. Disconnecting it at the master and all extensions can work wonders.

Danni · Nov 20, 2006, 15:20:47

I'll have a look as soon as I find a screwdriver (Johny is currently in bed :p)

Rik · Nov 20, 2006, 15:23:04

Good for you.

Danni · Nov 20, 2006, 15:41:23

Well, I had a look and there are only two wires connected- an orange one and a white one. The green and black ones weren't connected to anything. I thought it best not to mess with them in case I broke something :p

Rik · Nov 20, 2006, 15:49:23

I take it they were on terminals 2 & 5? In which case you don't have a ring wire.

Danni · Nov 20, 2006, 16:21:11

I think so- my eyesight's a bit blurry at the moment (just my luck- the left side of my face is paralysed!).

Rik · Nov 20, 2006, 16:30:33

Sorry to hear that, hope it gets better soon.

(My eyesight is always blurry, but that's 'cos I'm very short-sighted...

)

cavillas · Nov 20, 2006, 17:35:05

Quote from: rikbean on Nov 20, 2006, 16:30:33
Sorry to hear that, hope it gets better soon.

(My eyesight is always blurry, but that's 'cos I'm very short-sighted... )

Or is that the drink again.

Rik · Nov 20, 2006, 17:37:27

If only! Would you believe I'm allergic to alcohol. Life just ain't fair...

Danni · Dec 02, 2006, 14:55:41

While Johny was sleeping (

) I changed the setup of modem and router. Basically, the wireless router is now just an access point, and the modem is in charge of the internet now. I think I've discovered part of the cause of the disconnects- our DS Margin is 2. Below are the rest of the stats for anyone techie

Modem Status
Connection Status Connected
Us Rate (Kbps) 448
Ds Rate (Kbps) 7776
US Margin 20
DS Margin 2
Trained Modulation GDMT
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 45
US Line Attenuation 23
Peak Cell Rate 1056 cells per sec
CRC Rx Fast 0
CRC Tx Fast 0
CRC Rx Interleaved 513
CRC Tx Interleaved 30
Path Mode Interleaved

Since changing things Firefox is having major problems with browsing websites, but Konqueror doesn't have the same problems. We've changed the phone system from analogue cordless to DECT ones, which has helped a little, but we still have some static on the voice line. There is also the coincidence that Colin Burns (friend who lives a village nearer the exchange to us) is also having the same problems since coming onto IDNet Max (he was on Tiscali 2mb before). He's still on his 10 day training, but his problems are remarkably similar to ours. Knowing him, if he's still having problems after the 10 day training it will be me writing the email to IDNet from him...

Danni · Dec 02, 2006, 15:45:30

Okay, so my DS Margin has been between 0 and 2 for a bit now, but I just got this weird result- 2147483487

http://www.dannimatzk.co.uk/whoopsie.png

Nerval · Dec 02, 2006, 20:57:15

That's just the figure you get when it goes below zero. Your router won't tolerate that for too long without resynching at a lower speed.

Rik · Dec 03, 2006, 10:21:24

Quote from: Danni on Dec 02, 2006, 15:45:30
Okay, so my DS Margin has been between 0 and 2 for a bit now, but I just got this weird result- 2147483487
http://www.dannimatzk.co.uk/whoopsie.png

Hi Danni

As Nerval says, it indicates a negative figure. Unfortunately, routers didn't allow for negative figures, ie signed hex, so they interpret the number as a large positive, I think yours translates to -2db, but don't quote me on that.

I would suggest that you ask Miriam to get your target noise margin increased to 9db. That should ensure, assuming that was your worst figure, that you don't go negative again. You will lose some speed, but hopefully not enough to affect your BRAS profile, if you sync between 7392 & 7967, you will have a profile of 6500. At worst, you'd lose about 400kbps.

Nerval · Dec 03, 2006, 10:37:14

I just said that!

I wouldn't necessarily change the taget SNR though.
Mine goes negative every day as the evening draws on, but resyncs at a slightly lower speed on its own and causes no problems.
Unless you're disconnecting frequently, I'd just ignore it.

Rik · Dec 03, 2006, 10:43:48

Quote from: Nerval on Dec 03, 2006, 10:37:14
I just said that!

I was merely expanding on your answer.

As to whether to up the target noise margin, it's dependent on whether Danni finds the disconnections a nuisance. I did, so went for stability rather than speed. If Danni's lucky, she could get the stability with no speed loss at all.

Danni · Dec 03, 2006, 11:51:46

Following some emails with Simon yesterday, Johny finally disconnected everything from the line except the modem. So far, the DS Margin has been a solid 6 (with a sync at 8128) so it is something in the house somewhere. Now it's just figuring out what. First I think will be replacing the filters, as we're still using the ones BT gave us when we were on 512 a couple of years ago

Rik · Dec 03, 2006, 12:56:14

It's worth disconnecting the ring wire, terminal 3, at the master and any extensions, Danni. It acts like a big aerial to attract all sorts of noise. After that it's down to wiring topology and quality, plus your filters. I've found the best results with ADSL Nation's XF-1e.

Danni · Dec 03, 2006, 13:23:55

There were only 2 wires connected at the master socket when I checked last time, but I'll have a look at the extensions when my thumb hurts a bit less (my wireless card is broken but still works, and I cut my thumb trying to fix it!).

Rik · Dec 04, 2006, 08:15:54

Quote from: Danni on Dec 03, 2006, 13:23:55
my wireless card is broken but still works, and I cut my thumb trying to fix it!

Sorry to hear that, try putting some Tea Tree oil on it (if you've never tried it, it's a brilliant natural antiseptic and promotes healing).

wolverene · Dec 04, 2006, 12:43:51

You might find it is something to do with your DECT phones. Someone on PN mentioned this as affecting his connection and after disconnecting each handset he didn`t have the problem. Been looking for the post but as there are so many on PN I`ve run out of steam.
Good luck

Danni · Dec 04, 2006, 18:04:18

Nope, the phone's aren't the problem- plugged them in and everything stayed the same.

So far the problems I've found are:

It syncs too high during the day, at 8128, which results in a disconnection when it gets dark. Anyone know how to stop it syncing so high?

It getting dark results in the DS margin dropping to -something, so it resyncs at a lower speed. Since I can't stop it getting dark outside, the answer would be to stop it syncing so high in the first place.

The sky boxes (or the filters or the extensions they were connected to) were causing a lot of noise. Since we're now out of contract, we're just not plugging them in.

At some point in the night/early morning, the net disconnects and doesn't reconnect again until I do it manually. I have no idea what time this happens as the logs on my modem aren't working (that'll be my fault for putting the Australian firmware on it) but when it reconnects the sync speed is back to 8128.

So basically, since disconnecting the sky boxes we get 3 disconnects a day. I want that reduced to none if possible, so how do I stop the modem syncing at 8128 during the day?

Nerval · Dec 04, 2006, 20:46:31

You could ask IDNet to get your target SNR margin raised, which would have the effect of lowering your sync speed and thus giving you more latitude before it has to resync.
But it shouldn't necessarily drop when it resyncs anyway - mine doesn't - and can't you set the router to reconnect automatically?

I think some routers can also let you raise the target SNR yourself, though I don't know a lot about that.

Seems odd for something to be causing the drops like that though.

Danni · Dec 04, 2006, 20:59:11

I can't find anywhere on the modem to tell it to reconnect automatically. It does it itself most of the time, but the one that occurs when we're asleep isn't reconnecting. Asking IDNet to raise the SNR is a good idea- I just want to find out what our current BRAS profile is, but that requires the speedtester to work, which it hasn't for me for a couple of days.

As soon as I find out that'll be a good idea

Danni · Dec 04, 2006, 23:31:28

OK, we now have another problem- our pings are sky high, and things are timing out. Pings to the idnet default gateway are averaging ~1200ms, and my l8nc graph has gone mad.

I'm gonna try and unplug the phone to see if that makes a difference. The current modem stats are:

Connection Status Connected
Us Rate (Kbps) 448
Ds Rate (Kbps) 7200
US Margin 20
DS Margin 7
Trained Modulation GDMT
LOS Errors 0
DS Line Attenuation 45
US Line Attenuation 23
Peak Cell Rate 1056 cells per sec
CRC Rx Fast 0
CRC Tx Fast 0
CRC Rx Interleaved 143
CRC Tx Interleaved 0
Path Mode Interleaved

Danni · Dec 04, 2006, 23:43:24

Scratch that, discovered problem- Azureus running on Johny's machine.

Does anyone know how to move torrents to a different program?

Nerval · Dec 05, 2006, 07:25:41

Sounds like he's totally out of control!!

And he should be running utorrent, not Azureus. It's much smaller and easier to use.

Might be a good idea if you both investigated the problem together, at the same time, and if the right hand knew what the left was doing

Danni · Dec 05, 2006, 12:03:13

He's still insisting it's not Azureus, despite the extremely high pings and nothing else working while he's running it

He's now downloaded uTorrent, but without being able to move his half downloaded stuff over he's not happy.

He's also having some problems with his own computer that don't affect mine, which must be the internet $:-\$ I think that's Windows XP, but he disagrees.

Basically we had a huge argument last night about what is actually internet problems and what are just his computer misbehaving, and what Azureus actually does to everyone's internet (make it unusable). This morning/afternoon I get to write an email to Simon asking for our target SNR to be raised, as our BRAS profile is 5500, which we're perfectly happy with. The internet has been synced at 7200 for over 16 hours now

I never have those problems with KTorrent

Nerval · Dec 05, 2006, 12:53:32

Hmm. Does sound difficult to approach the problems in a structured fashion. And without that, as you know, it's hard to get anywhere.

If you just click on the Azureus (torrent) files in utorrent, it will check how far you've got with downloading, then resume where Azureus left off.

How about getting a line each?

Or failing that, move to Plusnet where they throttle P2P, so he'd be no problem to you with that. Mind you, you really would have something to complain about then.

Danni · Dec 05, 2006, 20:17:28

Where are the Azureus torrent files kept? He can't find them (and doesn't download them- he just sticks the url in Azureus).

We're actually about to upgrade to SuperMax, as our uploads exceed our downloads at the moment

Nerval · Dec 06, 2006, 07:37:38

Each torrent that you download uses a little file with the suffix " .torrent" (that's dot torrent) to give it details of where to download the thing from.
You have one of these on your machine for each torrent you've down/up loaded, and you don't have to ask for them, you get them by sticking the url in Azureus and the machine downloads it automatically.

Azureus asks you which folder to store these in - can't remember where the default place is but you can do a search on .torrent to find them - and if you double click on one, it loads Azureus and starts that torrent running.

So if you clear out Azureus, put in utorrent and double click on a torrent file, it will load utorrent and start that torrent running. For the first time, you may need to tell it to open with utorrent, but then it will associate torrent files with utorrent for you.

Glenn · Dec 06, 2006, 08:32:40

I believe Azureus stores it's torrents in C:/Program files/Azureus/downloads by default, but more than likely under Options you will find downloads, it should list the current location.

Danni · Dec 08, 2006, 13:17:54

Well, we're now on SuperMax. Only problem is our highest download speeds are between 6am-12pm. We've also replaced the modem cable to the master socket with Cat 5 cable, and our DS margin is now 6 synced at 8128. New filters due tomorrow, and we're gonna replace the the extension cable to the phone. We're also looking at our budget to see if we can stretch as far as the business max product

Nerval · Dec 08, 2006, 13:20:25

Wouldn't it be cheaper to move to a house right outside the exchange?

Danni · Dec 08, 2006, 13:49:34

The exchange happens to be in an area where the houses go for around £250,000+, though it is behind the church so I could move in there

Rik · Dec 08, 2006, 14:18:10

Quote from: Danni on Dec 08, 2006, 13:49:34
though it is behind the church so I could move in there

At least you could ask for divine intervention to get some help with the connection.

Nerval · Dec 08, 2006, 15:05:27

True Rik, and if Danni wore a veil, the government would be obliged to give her a decent internet connection (as well as let her make the Channel 4 Christmas broadcast)

Rik · Dec 08, 2006, 15:13:53

Danni may wear a veil for all we know...

Nerval · Dec 08, 2006, 15:18:36

Can't see it in the avatar

Rik · Dec 08, 2006, 15:54:23

Are you telling me that you look like yours?

Nerval · Dec 08, 2006, 15:56:32

nAH, i WEAR A VEIL.

Nah, I wear a veil.
That's a picture of Sooty.

Rik · Dec 08, 2006, 16:07:12

Ah, the dreaded inverted caps lock veil!

(Sounds like a line from the Goons...)

Was does Sooty's opthalmologist make of his flashing eyes?

Danni · Dec 08, 2006, 16:44:12

Girl in avatar is Avril Lavigne. I don't look like her (unfortunately). I don't wear a veil, but do wear a hoody and/or earplugs when out, because I can't cope with the noise.

That's a picture of me taken last year. Apparently I have a really long tongue (and I can touch my nose with it

). I might post a newer one if I get one taken I like, but since I've put on a lot of weight since then I doubt it will happen.

Rik · Dec 08, 2006, 16:55:28

Be happy to look like yourself, Danni.

I know how you feel about noise, noise and light pollution are the bane of urban society - it's one of the things I enjoyed on my travels this summer, being away from both.

As to your tongue, I can only say I envy you yours, mine is so short (I'm literally tongue-tied) that I can't stick it out at anyone, except through a smiley.

Nerval · Dec 08, 2006, 17:01:25

Sooty's got a long tongue, but you've got to get past his teeth to see it.
Dangerous!

Inactive · Dec 08, 2006, 17:04:54

I can put my tongue out and turn it over ( without touching it )...but only in one direction...strange or what?

( Don't answer )..

Rik · Dec 08, 2006, 17:13:48

Quote from: Nerval on Dec 08, 2006, 17:01:25
Sooty's got a long tongue, but you've got to get past his teeth to see it.
Dangerous!

I prefer to observe him grooming!

Rik · Dec 08, 2006, 17:14:32

Quote from: Inactive on Dec 08, 2006, 17:04:54
I can put my tongue out and turn it over ( without touching it )...but only in one direction...strange or what?

( Don't answer )..

Shouldn't that be "answers on a postcard..."?

Danni · Dec 08, 2006, 21:38:27

Quote from: Inactive on Dec 08, 2006, 17:04:54
I can put my tongue out and turn it over ( without touching it )...but only in one direction...strange or what?

( Don't answer )..

Not that strange- I can only turn it over one way as well (if I try the other way it just rolls).

One of the advantages of living in a village- very little noise and light pollution. Of course the disadvantage is living a few miles from the exchange

As for looking like myself- I'd be happy to look like myself from last year, being 6 stone lighter and able to move without pain...

Inactive · Dec 08, 2006, 23:21:03

Quote from: Danni on Dec 08, 2006, 21:38:27

One of the advantages of living in a village- very little noise and light pollution. Of course the disadvantage is living a few miles from the exchange

Best of both worlds here, I live in a quiet village and have a BT exchange for a nearly next door neighbour...

Rik · Dec 09, 2006, 00:34:38

Quote from: Danni on Dec 08, 2006, 21:38:27One of the advantages of living in a village- very little noise and light pollution. Of course the disadvantage is living a few miles from the exchange

I live in the middle of a relatively large new town, Milton Keynes, but I suffer more from aluminium than distance, the best I can hope for with Max is a 2500 profile. Such is life...

QuoteAs for looking like myself- I'd be happy to look like myself from last year, being 6 stone lighter and able to move without pain...

My sympathies, I know the sort of thing you must be feeling, having put on 5st myself through depression and agoraphobia - a mixture of drug side effects, comfort eating and sedentary lifestyle.

jupiter · Dec 09, 2006, 08:55:20

Quote from: rikbean on Dec 09, 2006, 00:34:38
I live in the middle of a relatively large new town, Milton Keynes, but I suffer more from aluminium than distance, the best I can hope for with Max is a 2500 profile.

That's tough - I'm miles from the exchange on a battered coastline and get the same profile.

Trouble is too that the aluminium will get you in the end - helps Alzheimers along I believe. Or is that aluminium teapots?

Rik · Dec 09, 2006, 11:04:55

Aluminium pans, especially those in contact with fruit, iirc. But I won't need any help, I'll just quietly let my brain go to the bit bucket in the sky.

cavillas · Dec 09, 2006, 13:49:01

Quotea mixture of drug side effects, comfort eating and sedentary lifestyle.

isn't that normal for people of our age then?

Rik · Dec 10, 2006, 11:29:32

You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.

(Like the avatar)

Danni · Dec 11, 2006, 20:32:23

Well, the cables have been upgraded to cat 5, the filters have been changed, and... we now get the wonderful download speeds of 10KB/s. With a BRAS profile of 6000. And a sync of over 7mb.

I'm about to email Simon again...

Nerval · Dec 11, 2006, 21:43:54

With all the chat in the middle about tongues and stuff, I've lost where you're up to.

I thought the problem was disconnections, not speed.

Re speed, I notice a lot of exchanges (including mine) have gone to red on the VP report here, and if yours has too, then that may well explain the low speed.

Danni · Dec 11, 2006, 23:05:12

We're still getting the disconnections too. Just we now have the added problem of speeds around the same we got on Supanet.

Rowlands Gill exchange is currently green.

Danni · Jan 08, 2007, 23:22:39

Having bagged a different (fully working) router and an extension cord for the power supply, we now have it plugged into the test socket... and our sync rate has gone down from what it was, as has the DS margin and our attenuation has gone up. Apart from the now very real danger that someone will trip over a cable and fall down the stairs, any ideas why things get worse when plugged into the test socket?

Rik · Jan 09, 2007, 08:19:33

What happens if you go back to the normal socket that you connect to? If that's also down, then it suggests a fault with the master socket or line.

Nerval · Jan 09, 2007, 08:25:24

Unless you're using extra cables to plug it into the master socket.

If EVERYTHING else is the same when you plug it into the master socket, then the socket's faulty (as Rik says).

Rik · Jan 09, 2007, 08:34:47

We concur.

Danni · Jan 10, 2007, 16:41:18

I dunno what it was- both the normal socket and test socket were the same (and I put our modem the in place of the router with the same results). I reconnected everything up and things improved. It could be a faulty socket I suppose, but since things have settled down (and I know for the future there's nothing wrong with our wiring) I'll just leave it for now.