Is my broadband capped at 128k do you think?

gyruss · Jun 23, 2008, 14:19:02

Found this page particularly useful in terms of describing IP Profile: http://www.thinkbroadband.com/faq/sections/radsl.html#connection

I will ofc check the 'test' socket that sits behind the faceplate of my bt master socket as a test, but before i do any further disconnection of any of my equipment now, can i just check with you guys..

Is it best practice to switch off the router whenever a disconnection of the telecom socket from the master is done? (eg, to switch the connection to the test socket). I read on a site that switching off the router in most cases creates a 'last gasp' signal which won't be interpretted by BT as a fault with the line? Is this correct? If so i'll just be doubly sure I do switch off the router first. (admittedly i haven't been switching off my router 60% of the time), with my frustration trying like heck to get my connection up from 5700 downstream to see if i can improve it.. i may have omitted these basic safeguards.

I'm guessing its these disconnects that had lowered my profile in the end.

If on the test socket however i get no improvements etc, do you think that the downstream will ever be more than this 5700 or so? Previous house was further away from the exchange and got pretty much the full 8000(ish) downsteam, where i am now 1.6km from it, and only get at best this 5700(ish) figure.

Despite my knowledge with computers and the internet though, i really did learn ALOT this weekend, so thanks very much chaps for spending the time with your excellent replies. I appreciated all of it.

gyruss · Jun 23, 2008, 15:36:03

Thankfully also found a nice site on the internet which details some nice 'hidden' config pages for my linksys router which gives me some extra facts n figures which before i relied on my netgear router for.

My linksys is a WAG54GS, and in their infinite wisdom they hid all the nice reports regard attenuation/noise etc away. but not anymore

Rik · Jun 23, 2008, 15:50:43

Hi Gyruss

Generally, if you power the router off before disconnecting, the modem sends a last gasp signal, so the DSLAM doesn't "worry" that there's instability. The magic number, though, is 10. If the line sees 10 or more disconnections in an hour, it will react, so spread your experimentation.

Although we mainly look at signal attenuation (because it can be measured), there's a hidden and unquantifiable 'line quality' element which also affects your speed. This is affected by whether the cable is thick or thin copper, or aluminium, whether it's overhead or underground, whether there's a lot or a few joints on it, and it's basic condition. The only way we ever find out this 'effect' is to judge a connection at the test socket, which removes all your internal wiring from the equation.

Sebby · Jun 23, 2008, 16:41:48

I would expect that you will get better results at the test socket.

As Rik says, there is almost an unknown quality element, and this must be considered as well as attenuation alone. But, I'd say it should be possible to get full sync, and I suspect noisy internal wiring is what is stopping you. Hopefully, we'll soon find out.

Steve · Jun 23, 2008, 17:36:16

Quote from: gyruss on Jun 23, 2008, 15:36:03
Thankfully also found a nice site on the internet which details some nice 'hidden' config pages for my linksys router which gives me some extra facts n figures which before i relied on my netgear router for.

Can you recall which site this was please??

Glenn · Jun 23, 2008, 17:51:51

Quote from: Sebby on Jun 23, 2008, 16:41:48

I would expect that you will get better results at the test socket.

My line is the exception, I get a worse connection through the test socket

It has been stable arong the 3mb mark since the BT eng found the fault last month.

Rik · Jun 23, 2008, 17:54:50

How weird - did the BT guy say why?

Glenn · Jun 23, 2008, 18:06:23

He didn't have an answer Rik

Rik · Jun 23, 2008, 18:17:58

Shame, that's a story I would like to have heard.

Dangerjunkie · Jun 23, 2008, 18:28:53

Hi,

Since ADSL is really a radio signal it may be that your line was an odd multiple of a half wavelength at some frequency it uses. Adding the extensions may have changed the length of the line just enough that a tone that was being lost then became usable.

Just a guess... Could also have changed the capacitance or inductance of the circuit.

Cheers,
Paul.

edit: typos galore!

Rik · Jun 23, 2008, 18:29:53

Good theory, Paul, it works for me.

Sebby · Jun 23, 2008, 18:55:55

I suspect that the BT guy didn't know the reason.

Glenn · Jun 23, 2008, 18:57:46

Me too

gyruss · Jun 23, 2008, 20:18:14

Quote from: stevethegas on Jun 23, 2008, 17:36:16
Can you recall which site this was please??

Yes of course Steve, luckily i had it in my other browser tab as i was reading this one...

URL LINK: Linksys Hidden Router Stats

For reference: Here is an output from my linksys wag54gs router done using the suggested method in the user replies near the bottom of the page: (within a telnet session)

# adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 832 Kbps, Downstream rate = 5664 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 15.3 12.0
Attn(dB): 37.5 21.5
Pwr(dBm): 19.8 12.5
Max(Kbps): 6208 1180
Rate (Kbps): 5664 832
G.dmt framing
K: 178(0) 27
R: 16 16
S: 1 8
D: 32 4
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 1 1
B: 178 27
M: 1 8
T: 1 1
R: 16 16
S: 1.0893 8.5714
L: 1432 224
D: 32 4
Counters
SF: 9879759 9879757
SFErr: 16 0
RS: 671823628 83977934
RSCorr: 84578 0
RSUnCorr: 286 0

HEC: 15 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2243646676 0
Data Cells: 2805480 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 13 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 9 0
Total time = 1 days 22 hours 34 min 31 sec

Chaps, as i'm on baby sitting duty tonight as the missus is working monday/tuesdays til 8pm, i'll probably test the main bt socket via the test socket on wednesday. Sorry for delaying this test, but my best attempts at being quiet resemble someone setting fireworks off at the local library

Will definitely test it though, see what you can make of the above info for now tho? Seems very thorough that report command, wish they would build that into the GUI of the router to export to a file perhaps.

LesD · Jun 23, 2008, 20:51:42

Quote from: gyruss on Jun 23, 2008, 20:18:14
Down Up
SNR (dB): 15.3 12.0
Attn(dB): 37.5 21.5
Pwr(dBm): 19.8 12.5
Max(Kbps): 6208 1180
Rate (Kbps): 5664 832

The Down SNR at 15.3 dB is high!

Compare this bit of your stats with mine:

DSL Down Up
Current Rate: 4416 kbs 448 kbs
Max Rate: 4416 kbs 1048 kbs
Current Noise Margin: 11.0 dB 25.0 dB
Current Attenuation: 41.2 dB 27.0 dB
Current Output Power: 19.4 dBm 11.9 dBm

and at 11 dB mine is high now but will be 6 dB by 11 PM-ish!

That said at the time you read it your Rate was considerably better than mine but mine varies very little as long at I leave it permanently on and don't reconnect when the Noise Margin is low.

I suffered the 135 kbps IP Profile for exactly the same reason as you - experimenting to freely with my cables at the inner BT test socket etc. but you only do it once!

From my experiments the results were not that conclusive because time of day is a big influence on my connection as I found out and have mentioned already.

I now have an ADSLNation filtered faceplate on my BT Master Socket with about a 10 metre run of CAT5 cable directly off the unfiltered ADSL IDC terminals on the back of this faceplate. This CAT5 cable has 8 conductors in it arranged as 4 twisted pairs with a different degree of twist on each of the pairs to further reduce cross-talk between them. This is not a concern for me as I have have nothing else carried in the other three twisted pairs. Only one pair is used and this is dedicated to my ADSL signal. All the rest of my aging telephone extension wiring runs on pretty much the old existing wiring of various descriptions depending on as and when I installed it over the years, from the filtered IDC terminals at the back of my ADSLNation faceplate. There are no junctions/connections/joins in my twisted pair. The end at the router is terminated with an RJ11 plug that goes straight into the router.

This is the best I can do in my home without major civil work.

I do believe that my bit is a good as it gets now so the remaining issues are with the line between me and the exchange and possibly in the exchange itself. Till BT upgrade the equipment in my locale I have to be satisfied with what I get but there may still be some things that you could do!

gyruss · Jun 23, 2008, 21:09:16

Saw an NTE5 faceplate filter suggested at: http://www.broadbandzone.co.uk/shop/centralisedfilter.html

Seriously considering this, and i may well invest in some cat5 on a reel soonish, or ask the friendly neighbourhood network engineer at work to loose some off his reel if he has some

Now you mention variable twisting done? ok humour me, are you talking about basically taking two wires from inside the cat 5 and varying the frequency of twists done? (oh go on!, i can hear you all laughing from here!!

) Differing the twists on each of the pairs? have i got that right?

Ok.. next question.. the RJ11's.. i luckily have a maplin virtually on my doorstep open 7 days a week, do you think they'd supply the RJ11 connectors i require? and if so i'm presuming i'd need the crimps too?

Anyway, i will definitely test in the NTE5 test socket on wednesday.. but as a pet project perhaps over the coming month or two (money permitting.. curse the forever increasing cost of living/working) i'll look towards far superior cabling like this.

Steve · Jun 23, 2008, 21:18:08

Thanks for the URL LINK: Linksys Hidden Router Stats however it seems to be down at present, however have found similar on the sky user forum http://www.skyuser.co.uk/tools/RouterStats/

LesD · Jun 23, 2008, 22:07:14

Quote from: gyruss on Jun 23, 2008, 21:09:16
Saw an NTE5 faceplate filter suggested at: http://www.broadbandzone.co.uk/shop/centralisedfilter.html

I have had a quick look at the one at the end of your link and I could not see any mention of rear ADSL connections. If you are happy to plug the ADSL wire to your router into the the socket on the front OK.
I ran my CAT5 cable up inside my wall under the floor down inside another wall and out through a grommet to keep it out of sight so I went for one with rear ADSL IDC connections. This is the one I bought:

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xte2005.php

Quote from: gyruss on Jun 23, 2008, 21:09:16
Now you mention variable twisting done? ok humour me, are you talking about basically taking two wires from inside the cat 5 and varying the frequency of twists done? (oh go on!, i can hear you all laughing from here!! ) Differing the twists on each of the pairs? have i got that right?

Yes you have it the pitch of the twist is different between the pairs. I was surprised by this myself when my length fell of the real of a network man I know and he mentioned this to me. He took the trouble to strip a short length of the outer sleeve to show me!

Quote from: gyruss on Jun 23, 2008, 21:09:16
Ok.. next question.. the RJ11's.. i luckily have a maplin virtually on my doorstep open 7 days a week, do you think they'd supply the RJ11 connectors i require? and if so i'm presuming i'd need the crimps too?

My supply of RJ11 and RJ45 plugs along with my crimp tool came from an eBay seller. Mine is not and expensive tool but works fine. On the basis that I only make up a few leads I don't need an industrial quality one if you see what I mean.

Quote from: gyruss on Jun 23, 2008, 21:09:16
(money permitting.. curse the forever increasing cost of living/working) i'll look towards far superior cabling like this.

I'm a Grandad now but I recall when the parent of my grandchild and her siblings were much younger, how my budget was streched, so I know where you are coming from!

Sebby · Jun 23, 2008, 22:34:55

Quote from: gyruss on Jun 23, 2008, 21:09:16
Anyway, i will definitely test in the NTE5 test socket on wednesday.. but as a pet project perhaps over the coming month or two (money permitting.. curse the forever increasing cost of living/working) i'll look towards far superior cabling like this.

Assuming that the test socket improves your sync, and you decide to fit a filtered faceplate, there's little point in improving your internal wiring. The beauty of a filtered faceplate is that it filters the ADSL as the line enters the house, so the internal wiring is out of the equation; at the same time, the extension wiring is pre-filtered for voice (hence no microfilters are required).

Alternatively, if it's not feasible to site the router at the master socket, a filtered faceplate is not really any good. Instead, then it would be a good idea to improve internal wiring, e.g. using cat5 cable, removing the ring wire, etc.

gyruss · Jun 24, 2008, 01:13:02

Quote from: stevethegas on Jun 23, 2008, 21:18:08
Thanks for the URL LINK: Linksys Hidden Router Stats however it seems to be down at present, however have found similar on the sky user forum http://www.skyuser.co.uk/tools/RouterStats/

the tip for the wag54gs is on that page you linked, so yep, you got working information for sure there. Its the same as i used.

Mytheroo · Jun 24, 2008, 01:21:33

http://192.168.1.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug activates the WAG54GS telnet interface
then telnet 192.168.1.1
then 'adslctl info --stats' gives the atten. and SNR and errors etc

BusyBox v1.00 (2006.09.20-01:51+0000) Built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 736 Kbps, Downstream rate = 832
Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 11.8 6.0
Attn(dB): 63.0 31.5
Pwr(dBm): 15.4 12.4
Max(Kbps): 1152 904
Rate (Kbps): 832 736
G.dmt framing
K: 27(0) 24
R: 16 16
S: 8 8
D: 4 4
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 1 1
B: 28 24
M: 8 8
T: 1 1
R: 16 16
S: 8.5517 8.6400
L: 232 200
D: 4 4
Counters
SF: 8761456 8761454
SFErr: 1038 0
RS: 74472380 74472359
RSCorr: 30401677 0
RSUnCorr: 2457 0

HEC: 806 0
OCD: 9 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 292266332 0
Data Cells: 41131247 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 3316 0
SES: 30 0
UAS: 829 0
Total time = 1 days 14 hours 48 min 37 sec
SF = 53901914
CRC = 6453
LOS = 0
LOF = 0
ES = 3316

Mytheroo · Jun 24, 2008, 01:29:58

On a side note, does anyone think a 2wire router would improve my DL sync? Am on a TPON with copper overlay (and maybe some string with yoghurt pots each end

)
I used to get 1024 sync but with constant drops, at least it's stable(ish) at the moment. SNR is always at 11db when I've checked it.

LesD · Jun 24, 2008, 07:50:48

Quote from: Sebby on Jun 23, 2008, 22:34:55
Alternatively, if it's not feasible to site the router at the master socket, a filtered faceplate is not really any good. .

I haveto take issue with this Sebby.

As I said before I run an independent CAT5 from the ADSL IDC connectors supplied for this purpose at the rear of my ADSL filter faceplate for the very reason that my router cannot be easily located adjacent to ther Master Socket.

Mytheroo your attenuation suggest that you are a long way from your exchange. A 2Wire may help and at the price some go for on eBay why not give it a go?

Sebby · Jun 24, 2008, 13:38:58

I should re-phrase what I said. "Not very good" is not what I meant. I meant that it might be more simple to remove the ring wire, etc. You can run a cat5 cable from the filtered faceplate, be it from the front or rear, or you could potentially achieve the same thing by improving internal wiring.

gyruss · Jun 24, 2008, 21:57:44

Idnet emailed me at work today and have asked if i can connect my router up to the test socket while they run some tests. I'm going to leave it pretty much connected to the test socket all day tomorrow, so when i logout tonight going to plug the router direct to the test for them to test whenever and however often they wish to during the day.

For the hell of it anyway and due to a nagging curiousity anyway, i plugged the router into the test socket once i got home from work (earlier on)...

here is the stats page from the linksys router while connected to the test socket... ahh well.

# adslctl info --stats
adslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime Channel: INTR, Upstream rate = 832 Kbps, Downstream rate = 592
0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: G.DMT
Channel: Interleave
Trellis: ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 14.8 12.0
Attn(dB): 37.5 21.5
Pwr(dBm): 19.8 12.5
Max(Kbps): 6464 1180
Rate (Kbps): 5920 832
G.dmt framing
K: 186(0) 27
R: 16 16
S: 1 8
D: 32 4
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 1 1
B: 186 27
M: 1 8
T: 1 1
R: 16 16
S: 1.0855 8.5714
L: 1496 224
D: 32 4
Counters
SF: 12702 12700
SFErr: 0 0
RS: 863792 107950
RSCorr: 21 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 3017535 0
Data Cells: 116 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 9 0
Total time = 49710 days 6 hours 27 min 8 sec