C&W to buy Demon

Noreen · Jun 30, 2008, 11:14:18

QuoteReports indicate that THUS Group, the Glasgow-based telecoms firm behind UK ISP Demon Internet, will agree a bid worth up to 180p per share (approximate value: £330m) by Cable & Wireless (C&W) before 5pm today. The news follows THUS Group's earlier rejection of a preliminary offer worth 165p (original news), which was deemed to have undervalued the company.

It would certainly be an interesting move for C&W, which practically vacated the retail Internet provision market in 2006 when its Bulldog broadband customer base was sold on to Tiscali. THUS currently employs over 1,700 staff and recently posted its first operating profits for the year ending 31st March 2008.

However, the majority of our readers will no doubt be more interested in how Tiscali's sale is progressing. The ISP had promised to reach an agreement by the end of June and today is their last chance to do so without bagging a heap of criticism. It remains to be seen whether Vodafone has pulled out completely or merely reduced its original offer.

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/news/EkEulEEkuZxnMTLuZa.html

Rik · Jun 30, 2008, 12:29:21

What a curious market place...

Tacitus · Jun 30, 2008, 13:43:16

Quote from: Rik on Jun 30, 2008, 12:29:21
What a curious market place...

Be interesting to see what C & W plan for Demon. As a Demon customer I think I should be told

Glenn · Jun 30, 2008, 18:53:25

It is strange, as C&W pulled out of the retail sector, is buying Demon a move back into the sector?

Rik · Jun 30, 2008, 19:03:39

I would have thought so...

Tacitus · Jun 30, 2008, 21:18:02

Quote from: Glenn on Jun 30, 2008, 18:53:25
It is strange, as C&W pulled out of the retail sector, is buying Demon a move back into the sector?

If they do go into retail as seems likely and they adopt the pile it high sell it cheap route, then I for one will bail out and go elsewhere.

Simon · Jun 30, 2008, 23:55:45

You know where to come, Bob.

doc_holiday · Jul 01, 2008, 07:57:49

I was just thinking about demon the other day. I remember when they were such a big player in the UK. It is amazing how things change over time.

Tacitus · Jul 01, 2008, 08:07:25

Quote from: doc_holiday on Jul 01, 2008, 07:57:49
I was just thinking about demon the other day. I remember when they were such a big player in the UK. It is amazing how things change over time.

They're certainly not the company they were when I joined back in the days of dial-up. Support has been outsourced to Bangalore, and the network seems to be getting more congested at peak times although since I'm on a poor line this could be my imagination. Certainly it's not unusual to find the mail servers too congested to accept mail at peak times.

Bangalore can be OK if you're lucky enough to get one of the better ones, but none of them are very willing to get involved with BT. I imagine they're under corporate orders to steer clear in case they start incurring BT charges.

In my view far more ISPs should give BT a hammering, as more often than not it's their poor lines which are the source of problems.

Rik · Jul 01, 2008, 10:18:55

I agree, Tac, BT need to be required to provide a level of service if we are ever to move forward.

Tacitus · Jul 01, 2008, 12:04:46

Quote from: Rik on Jul 01, 2008, 10:18:55
I agree, Tac, BT need to be required to provide a level of service if we are ever to move forward.

They should, but I doubt OFCOM would have the bottle to force them to do it.

I gather from these forums that Miriam works wonders with BT! Perhaps every ISP should have a Miriam

Reminds me of someone I used to work with. The biggest threat he ever made was to 'set the wife' on someone. He wasn't kidding - she used to be a no-nonsense police sergeant. Actually a very nice woman, but not one to be trifled with.

Rik · Jul 01, 2008, 12:08:58

If every ISP had a Miriam, IDNet wouldn't be special anymore.

It shouldn't need that kind of pushing, though, BT should be trying to deliver a first rate service.

Tacitus · Jul 01, 2008, 12:42:47

Quote from: Rik on Jul 01, 2008, 12:08:58
It shouldn't need that kind of pushing, though, BT should be trying to deliver a first rate service.

I agree, but if every ISP made a complete nuisance of themselves it might convince BT/OR that providing a decent service is easier than enduring constant harassment. I don't just mean keep 'phoning OR, but politically and every other way possible.

Rik · Jul 01, 2008, 12:53:55

I'm with you there, Tac, though knowing BT, they'd just start declaring lines unsuitable for ADSL.

Tacitus · Jul 01, 2008, 14:07:11

Quote from: Rik on Jul 01, 2008, 12:53:55
........knowing BT, they'd just start declaring lines unsuitable for ADSL.

That's the main reason I'm wary of rocking the boat, much as it galls me to say it. I doubt it would take much for them to declare the line as being no good. We're right at the end of the run, there's only about another dozen houses to the end of the cable. A bit further up the road and they are served from another exchange, but I think they're in a worse boat than us as they must be 4/5 miles away. We're 2/2.5 albeit via poor cables. Should be about 40/44 dB attn compared to the 55/57 we actually get.

Rik · Jul 01, 2008, 15:53:09

I've known it happen, Tac, and till there's a USO, no-one can stop them.

Glenn · Jul 01, 2008, 17:41:25

I wonder what BT's impression is of IDNet?

Rik · Jul 01, 2008, 17:43:02

An ISP who know their job and don't take rubbish?

Simon · Jul 01, 2008, 17:50:32

Quote from: Glenn on Jul 01, 2008, 17:41:25
I wonder what BT's impression is of IDNet?

Probably as a thorn in their side, to be honest, who won't let them get away with their usual sh*t!

Tacitus · Jul 01, 2008, 18:26:12

Quote from: Simon on Jul 01, 2008, 17:50:32
Probably as a thorn in their side, to be honest, who won't let them get away with their usual sh*t!

Like I said a few more like iDNet and BT/OR might find that offering a good service is the easier option.

Simon · Jul 01, 2008, 18:30:51

Indeed.

Rik · Jul 01, 2008, 18:33:51

First you have to get the consumers willing to pay the price needed to keep the pressure on.

somanyholes · Oct 01, 2008, 07:47:20

just an update for you all. c&w now own thus. No linkage I'm afraid. We (c&w) where told this morning. The main purpose of this acquisition for those wondering is for c&w to take more of a bite of of BT's Business arm....

Tacitus · Oct 01, 2008, 09:01:55

Quote from: somanyholes on Oct 01, 2008, 07:47:20
just an update for you all. c&w now own thus. No linkage I'm afraid. We (c&w) where told this morning. The main purpose of this acquisition for those wondering is for c&w to take more of a bite of of BT's Business arm....

I did wonder so, as Demon have made a major push into the business market. I'm told that if you have a business contract, support is still UK based.

My main concern though is what C & W do with the consumer division. Pile it high and take on O2, or sell it off? Who knows.

somanyholes · Oct 01, 2008, 09:17:25

QuoteMy main concern though is what C & W do with the consumer division. Pile it high and take on O2, or sell it off?

Not sure on that one tbh. Even if i did couldn't really say.....

Tacitus · Oct 01, 2008, 09:41:54

Quote from: somanyholes on Oct 01, 2008, 09:17:25
Even if i did couldn't really say.....

I thought that might be the case....

Glenn · Oct 01, 2008, 14:36:11

Cable & Wireless are moving into the mobile phone business, Ericsson have signed an agreement with them to design, build and manage it for them.

Sebby · Oct 01, 2008, 15:11:31

Interesting... I wonder how that'll turn out.

Glenn · Oct 01, 2008, 15:16:10

They are also now involved with 3's network management

somanyholes · Oct 01, 2008, 20:59:29

the big thing at cw at the moment is fixed mobile convergence. This uses the orange network. Theres a lot of interest in it as it uses the gsm network when in the office not 802.11x. This solves many of the issues with mobile convergance. I think c&w will do very well out of it. It can save companies a massive amount of money.

https://www.my-cw-portal.com/portal/dt?JSPTabContainer.setSelected=JSPTabContainer%2FProductsAndServices&JSPTabContainer/ProductsAndServices.setSelected=JSPTabContainer%2FProductsAndServices%2FEntPubSector&tid=1200418852113&mid=1200418852194&disp=L1P1-L2P9-L3P2&last=false

Gary · Oct 02, 2008, 06:26:30

Quote from: somanyholes on Oct 01, 2008, 20:59:29
the big thing at cw at the moment is fixed mobile convergence. This uses the orange network. Theres a lot of interest in it as it uses the gsm network when in the office not 802.11x. This solves many of the issues with mobile convergance. I think c&w will do very well out of it. It can save companies a massive amount of money.

https://www.my-cw-portal.com/portal/dt?JSPTabContainer.setSelected=JSPTabContainer%2FProductsAndServices&JSPTabContainer/ProductsAndServices.setSelected=JSPTabContainer%2FProductsAndServices%2FEntPubSector&tid=1200418852113&mid=1200418852194&disp=L1P1-L2P9-L3P2&last=false

Well that will be no good here, Orange is a distant blip on the signal bar, even though their 3g coverage is very good on the whole, really a 900mhz solution would be better than a 1800mhz one, then not so many pico cells irradiating your head would be needed

Tacitus · Oct 15, 2008, 10:49:25

Quote from: somanyholes on Oct 01, 2008, 20:59:29
the big thing at cw at the moment is fixed mobile convergence. This uses the orange network. Theres a lot of interest in it as it uses the gsm network when in the office not 802.11x. This solves many of the issues with mobile convergance. I think c&w will do very well out of it. It can save companies a massive amount of money.

Interesting, but I wonder where this leaves the consumer division. One way could be to treat it as a 'prosumer' service with enhanced levels of service at a premium price (unlikely) or simply sell it off and concentrate on the business/convergence side.

I believe they have around 90,000 subscribers which presumably includes business users, so the number of true 'consumer' users is probably relatively small. I've had the impression over the last few years they're not really interested in the consumer side.

somanyholes · Oct 15, 2008, 15:37:29

the consumer division will be looked after from what i understand, it won't just be sold off. So they should be fine as far as i'm aware.

Rik · Oct 15, 2008, 15:41:42

If they do sell it off, it will go to Northern Rock.

Tacitus · Oct 15, 2008, 15:53:41

Quote from: somanyholes on Oct 15, 2008, 15:37:29
the consumer division will be looked after from what i understand, it won't just be sold off. So they should be fine as far as i'm aware.

That's good to know.

Whilst Demon's prices aren't completely out of whack for what, despite BT's best efforts, is a generally reliable service, they could do with coming down a little. Ideally support would return to the UK, but I won't hold my breath for that.....