My desk top just died

[David]

My desktop.....yes the one with the new memory just bleeped once went into a stand by like mode and now wont turn back on..........the multi usb point is illuminated so it has power but I think its  Any quick checks I can carry out.......before it goes off to the workshop 

[Rik]

Unplug everything but the memory, does it then complete POST? If it does, put the graphics card back, then repeat etc.

[David]

Wont even turn on now Rik let alone  POST

[kinmel]

Wont even turn on now Rik let alone  POST

First check that the on/off case switch is still functioning correctly.

If so does your Mb allow for BIOS recovery from a floppy?  if not the Mb , or the CPU, is dorked. 

[Rik]

Sounds like the PSU then, David. Do you have a spare you could try? (You have checked the plug fuse I take it?)

Or what Alan said.

[Dangerjunkie]

Sounds like a possible PSU fault to me. How old is the box and does it get left on for ages and ages or just turned on for short periods?

The good news is that a PSU replacement is an easy job. You'll need a philips screwdriver, some small cable ties to make it all neat and a pair of small cutters to trim the ties. Free up all the cables by snipping the ties, unplug all the connectors, unscrew PSU then reverse the process to install the new one.

Kinmel mentioned the case switch. You should find there is a block of pins with coloured wires and small plugs going into them for things like the switch, LEDs and speaker. Worth checking you didn't dislodge the switch one or any of the PSU-mobo plugs when you had the case open. From your description of the fault I don't think this is the case but worth checking anyway.

Cheers,
Paul.

[Glenn]

I too would say that the PSU is at fault. It is also the part that most manufacturers and builders skimp on, but is the single most important part of the PC. It does after all power every thing in the box.

[David]

Sounds like a possible PSU fault to me. How old is the box and does it get left on for ages and ages or just turned on for short periods?

The good news is that a PSU replacement is an easy job. You'll need a philips screwdriver, some small cable ties to make it all neat and a pair of small cutters to trim the ties. Free up all the cables by snipping the ties, unplug all the connectors, unscrew PSU then reverse the process to install the new one.

Kinmel mentioned the case switch. You should find there is a block of pins with coloured wires and small plugs going into them for things like the switch, LEDs and speaker. Worth checking you didn't dislodge the switch one or any of the PSU-mobo plugs when you had the case open. From your description of the fault I don't think this is the case but worth checking anyway.


Cheers,
Paul.

Sorry I had to go out.Yes it usually is on for a long periods at least 14 hours a day.I will check all the things,and yes I do have another machine which I hope the part I need will be taken out of and have all the tools you mentioned

[David]

Sounds like the PSU then, David. Do you have a spare you could try? (You have checked the plug fuse I take it?)

Or what Alan said.

Yes Rik carried out all the basic checks looks like I am going to take this part out of the other machine.this will be fun.....

[Dangerjunkie]

Hi David,

One thing to note is that PSUs are different depending on whether your machine has PATA or SATA drives. They will have different power connectors on the ends of the drive cables. If you're swapping or buying a new PSU you should check the one you're putting in has the right number and type of power plugs on it.

Cheers,
Paul.

[David]

Thanks Paul because of the fact I have been reading up.I know they are both SATA drives but will double check connections before any work is carried out..(thank goodness for RAM problems at least i know these basic things thank again) Rik you should be out surely ?

[David]

I dont know if this is the right one but will try if not pop over to maplins in the morning.I live just up the road.

The psu installed is a FSP 250-60 GEN
ac input 100-240
DC out 3.3 +5VSB 50/60 Hz

The spare one (still in the old machine is
Powerman
230 input
DC out 3.3 + 5VSB 50/60 Hz

Im not sure but they look on this right but will have to check the plugs as Paul said.....the secs look the same unless Im making a fool of myself again 

[Dangerjunkie]

FSP250... Is that a 250W PSU. As long as you get the right connectors and at least the same wattage you will be fine.

Maplin have this http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=98736&doy=1m7 400W PSU for £20.

Cheers,
Paul.

[David]

You are brilliant that is the one..might as well wait until the morning and pop over there thank you all.I have to shower the children now......well I listen to thier day as they yell for the flannel soap etc .......

You have taken the fear right out of this....and I really cant quanify what this is worth...many thanks.

[Lona]

Hope everything goes well, David.  You and I seem to be having problems galore these days.

[LesD]

If it's 250 Watts now I would go for 300 Watts for the new one provided you get the same type, i.e  size, connectors etc. The reason being that more memory will demand a bit more power as do any other peripherals that may have been added. This just may have put the old PSU over the edge!

[Dangerjunkie]

Hi,

You have taken the fear right out of this....and I really cant quanify what this is worth...many thanks.

You're welcome. I'm glad I could help.

There aren't many things you do inside a machine that carry significant risk of damage. In most cases if you get something wrong it just won't work and you can go back and check it over to find what happened.

If you look how the old thing came out and take your time then you'll be fine. Almost every problem I've ever had was caused by trying to do something in a hurry and rushing it.

As long as you connect everything back up the same as it came out and don't obstruct the airflow or any fans you should be fine

Good luck,
Paul.

[David]

Hope everything goes well, David.  You and I seem to be having problems galore these days.

Thanks Lona,lucky I have the lap top.it will get sorted good luck with yours 

[David]

If it's 250 Watts now I would go for 300 Watts for the new one provided you get the same type, i.e  size, connectors etc. The reason being that more memory will demand a bit more power as do any other peripherals that may have been added. This just may have put the old PSU over the edge!

Thanks Les think I get the drift.as the one in the link is out of stock I will take myself over there later and take mine with me.just for peace of mind I am going to take a few photos of the psu in place so I wont make any error when connecting the new one.but I will be looking at the or gettin a 300.
We had 2 powercuts the other day and Im wondering if this has added to it,but thats academic just want to get stuck in and repair....as I said yesterday it may sound odd but if I am successsful the satisfaction of doing this will be enormous for me as I have for years paid out for someone else to do things..but thanks to you all on here I have a better (but humble) understanding of these things.Ifr I were younger I would take a course on this subject just to be able to be independent of "repairmen"

[Simon]

The thing with PSU connectors is, providing you get the right PSU, most of them only fit in one place, and one way round, so it's not that difficult to see where things are supposed to go.

[David]

Thanks Simon I got a little sidetracked reading the details on the psu s as they mention the colour of the wires.seems easy enough (in theory) 

[David]

Just returned from Maplins.had a good chat and wander around,I have got a X power ATX 450.I know it fits and should improve things it claims to have a silent duel fans and I cant wait to get to work,but have to earn a crust first so it will have to sit and wait for a few hours...roll on 4 pm.
Had a good chat,guy was really helpful and have already chosen the motherboard for my new pc (which I am going to build myself...

Oh to save you too much hassle got myself a brilliant book on how to build a pc even I can follow this...I have a feeling this might be an exciting little jouney....may even know what Im talking about one day 

[Rik]

Next, the Space Shuttle, David.

[David]

Got the enthusiasm though Rik and I have a feeling my bank balance will suffer.but could end up with a pc which is made for me without all the stuff on I never use.......Maplins here is next door to PC world and I wasnt even tempted to go in there despite Wendy saying why dont you buy a new one (bless her) I will now start getting my parts together  .......then maybe a ford fiesta...I will leave the space shuttle until next month although I did read  once that the early spaceships computor systems were no where near the spec of todays budget buys.

[Rik]

The early space computers were based on the 8-bit Motorola 6502 processor, as used in the BBC Micro.

[vitriol]

aah the BBC Model B, remember using them at school. 

[Rik]

I made a lot of money from mine.

[Baz]

I made a lot of money from mine.

REALLY???  how/where/who from/how much............I have one tucked away somewhere, maybe even two

[Rik]

I wrote software for it, Baz, and sold it on Prestel (the original paid software download). I also freelanced for Acorn as a programmer.

[David]

Well it done that was a job and a half had to take all the front cover off then move the optical drive because of space.fitted it at last and turned it on......nothing  I have  a usb multiplug in the front and it lights up so there is power.just gone through the list and its connected ok....why do I think this will be dire news

[Rik]

It's beginning to sound a bit like a motherboard failure, David.

[Ann]

Looks like you're going to be building that new computer a bit sooner than you thought, Mr Piano Player.  I built my first computer following the instructions on the BYO website.

http://www.buildyourown.org.uk/pc-building/

I also had a book but couldn't make head nor tail of it    It made everything sound so complicated.

[David]

Oh thanks for this link Ann.

[David]

It's beginning to sound a bit like a motherboard failure, David.

Have to look on the bright side Rik....got a nice new psu and I have already seen a motherboard today....always look on the bright side.............I can do memory and fit psu.....tomorrow the world...
I will get it checked out and if it is dead It will be time as Ann said to have a bloody good time.
The guy over at Maplins reckons for £600 (my budget) He reckons I would end up with a cracking machine the motherboard bundle is quad and I can use the RAM out of mine so in a way I have moved on a little anyway............................   will the hard drive be usable or is there anyway to get the data off it ?

[LesD]

Just some final things to run through that maybe you have done already.

Initially the single beep you mentioned sounded healthy to me. It's Machine BIOS dependent but a string of beeps usually gives an error code one is healthy.

Do you have a separate graphics card? If you do it will be the one the cable from your monitor plugs into.
Make absolutely sure it is seated properly in the connector slot on the motherboard (mobo).
While fitting memory it could possible have been disturbed.
If it is an AGP one like Lona's there will ever likely be some sort of locking pin at the back down near the socket on the mobo.
If the are any other cards in sockets on the mobo check that each one is seated and connecting properly.
sometimes the sightest of angles can be enough to cause some pins not to connect properly.
If you can work out what other cards do like the LAN card which will have the ethernet cable from your router plugged into it or a sound card with your speakers plugged into it you could try removing them temporarily and seeing it the machine will POST without them as a process of elimination.
Some mobo's have these feature on the mobo itself if yours is one of these this advice won't help but take a look and see.

Then there are the harddisk drives (HDD's). I believe I have seen SATA mentioned in your machine, which I have no experience of. When I built this machine a had a 120 GB IDE HHD drive going spare that was virtually new so despite the mobo having SATA facilities and the intention to go that way later so far the need has not arisen. That said I know that a badly seated ribbon cable between mobo and IDE drive can have unexpected consequences on the way a PC behaves so it is worth double checking that all the connections to your drive(s) are made properly. Reading about Simon's experiences a week or four ago he found SATA connectors very fragile so hopefully one of yours has not suffered the same fate. Machines in my experience will POST without the HDD's so you could see what happens if you disconnect them.

Another thing to look at is all the fan connections especially the one from the processor fan to the mobo.
If the processor overheats a good many shutdown as a self protection measure and no power to the fan would certainly make the processor overheat. That said I would have expected some sort of burst of life before this happened. There may be another fan on your graphics card make sure its connector is making properly.

I apologise if you have been there and done that as the saying goes but I have all but given up before now only to discover the daftest little things usually of my own making causing my grief!

Have at least one last look David. 

[vitriol]

This is very strange, first Lona's pc (corrupt graphics) which I had seen on a workmate's PC and now this.  Another colleague of mine changed his power supply recently and was getting the exact same symptoms that you describe David.  Solitary beep but then nothing.  The LED on his motherboard was coming on so power was there.

All I had to do to his was reset the BIOS by moving the jumper into the Clear position, leave it there 10 seconds and then put back in Normal position.  Applied power and his PC booted.

You could try doing that David, if you haven't already

--David

[Steve]

Certainly agree with LesD and Vitriol, It may just be coincidence but you have been ferreting around inside the case recently.For instance my PC will do diddly squit if the CPU fan is not functional/connected.

[LesD]

All I had to do to his was reset the BIOS by moving the jumper into the Clear position, leave it there 10 seconds and then put back in Normal position.  Applied power and his PC booted.

Sound advice here David. 

Just be sure to do this procedure with the mains power plug removed from your PC and/or the wall socket!

I know there are some machine where you can get away without doing this but there are definitely those where you cannot!   

P.S. This edit is because I have just had another thought and that is concerning the state of your CMOS battery. It is probably best described as shiny, on the mobo and roughtly the the size of a two bob bit (I know you will know what that looked like  ) with possibly CR2032 on it. A new on is only about 20 two bob bits so could be worth a try.

[David]

Thanks les thanks Vitriol and Steve.run out of time tonight.got the day off tomorrow so I intended to strip the machine down to the bare bones to see if there is any life and then one by one check and recheck,even if it just gives me the confidence to get around inside its worth it.Graphics card is the first
Heres my checck list
psu connection to motherboard
Heat sink fan connection
case fans
power cables to drives
check video card seated correctly
and all expansion cards connected

checl my Ram retention clips

And as a last resort will check to see if the power switch is ok......seems a long list but its worth a go but the way it just gave one bleep and turned itself off has to be a clue.

I had hoped that the psu had to work overtime to cope with the extra ram I had installed but as you know Im as thick as 2 short ones at present.

You know me though I wont give up and althuogh my new build has been brougfht foward I intend to resue this machine as well.....

In a month I will either have a cupboard full of bits or 3 functioning pcs...and no doubt learned a lot.....hope it wont be (go to pc world ) thanks guys will let you know how I get on  you never know it may be a case of "The Milkey bars are on me"

[David]

Thanks for that Les the battery I did look at earlier and it did occur didnt think this could make the machine unconcious though or in this case in a coma..just added it to the list and will replace if it isnt this I will use them on the new one so nothing has been got and wasted......

[Steve]

Most MB will POST with a flat battery.However if you cant find the CMOS reset jumper on the MB, disconnect power lead and remove the battery and leave it out for a couple of hours.

[David]

Thanks Steve,Les and Vitriol worth a try will do this.....Your all a credit to the human race......one day in about 350 years or when there is a severe frost in hell I may be able to help someone along in the same way you do for me and every one else....

[Steve]

PS Be careful, I managed to damage a MB changing the CMOS battery and now every time we have a powercut I have to restore the bios settings manually. Its a bloody nuisance as the PC has RAID as well

[LesD]

Thanks Steve,Les and Vitriol worth a try will do this

No problem look at all the ideas that we can get you to try out without taking any risk ourselves! 

No offense to my fellow advisers! 

[Steve]

I know Les,better to watch. But I see no solution except by a process of elimination.

[LesD]

One very last thought because it's my but recalling another of your threads about "Educating your keyboard", your current problems weren't triggered when you swapped them round or just after were they. 

Thinks best add check keyboard and/or its connections to your elimination list. What say you Steve? 

No keyboard would make a beeb or so but the machine should still POST though I guess.

[Steve]

Bios default is "halt all errors except keyboard" I think?

[vitriol]

Bios default is "halt all errors except keyboard" I think?

yup they're normally set up like that

[Dangerjunkie]

Hi,

Sorry to hear it's not going according to plan. On the bright side, however, you now have a really nice PSU that will power your new motherboard (the old one wouldn't have had a hope in Hades of running a top notch board with a modern quad CPU.)

Before writing off the board I would try the following:

• Have you connected all the cables that you should have? Particularly the second (square, 4-pin) power cable to the motherboard.
• Does you graphics card have a 4-pin power socket like a disc power socket? Is it connected?
• Have you tried the graphics card from another machine?
  
• Does your graphics card have more than one output socket (VGA, DVI?) Have you tried the other one to see if any video is coming out of that?
• Try disconnecting the power, gently removing the battery, leaving it for half an hour then putting the battery back and powering up. Enter the BIOS, restore defaults and save.

One beep normally suggests that the BIOS is happy and thinks the machine is working.

Cheers,
Paul.

[David]

Well I am amazed.my defunct machine has taken up more of today and decided to use laptop for online stuf.
then I thought I would try out the daughters machine.....and although its old the speed is blistering just carried out speed test on TB and its 5.4 and in comparison with the PB this leaves it standing.....I just clicked Idnet to favourites and it is so fast I hadnt rea;ised it had loaded and ened up with 3.............................time for a rethink  .cant think why this should be faster though

[vitriol]

whats the spec compared to your old machine?

[David]

its the same but the ram is tiny just 512 other than that on paper the other machine is better

[vitriol]

any joy with the desktop yet?

[David]

No I think the psu desktop will have to go into the workshope  may be tomorrow and they can sort it out.needs to go on the bench I think .

I have got my lap top out now as the other one although really fast the text and graphics are just blue with a white background.

All good fun this.

[Rik]

I have got my lap top out now as the other one although really fast the text and graphics are just blue with a white background.

You don't mean the lptop is affected as well, do you David?

[David]

No Rick.lap tops fine just me typing with a brother and sister having a spat (bless em)

[David]

I have been reading and reading,not to give up on my pc,but did buy another as all pointed to psu new one didnt resolve things so today I stripped the whole machine done  took out hard drive and ram checked the on off,removed all cards,then reinstalled the old psu and slowly put the mchine back together.pushed the power button and low and behold it gave me one bleep,very welcome sound and this machine is running well so far...it is so quiet ..................................so I thought I would say thank you for all your advice it did not go unheaded and whatever I have done its cured it  my family of pcs grows as I am just getting the parts for my self build  to all 





Edit: Smiley markup sorted

[Baz]

Well done David.    feels good when you have a go yourself and succeed doesnt it. You'll manage easy with a self build, it gets easier from now on  honest.

[David]

Thanks Baz this was a long job but I had to learn the basics and quickly bit of a high I cannot believe it really,ok I have saved about £150 but doing it myself is worth so much more,must have had a bit of luck but the result is the same.I had to thank you all though 

[Rik]

We'll get you building yourself a Windows Home Server next, David.

[David]

  a modest pc will do Rik..............thanks for all your help...I must be on the right side of the pc fairy
(this leaves it wide open for some gags) 

[Baz]

pc fairy............its the gremlins you need to look out for 

[Inactive]

(this leaves it wide open for some gags) 

As if....

Well done ..  

[David]

Thanks In...

[Simon]

Well done, David - that beep when you switch it on is a most welcome sound, but I breathe again when the Windows welcome screen appears! 

[Rik]

Which on my machine leaves me with a very red or blue face, depending on whether I'm holding my breath or waiting to breath.

[David]

I think I was sighing with resignation,so breathing was a luxury  My only problem  is I have now got so used to Vista, XP seems odd,I am a lover of Vista must admit its for me user friendly 

[Rik]

We'll forgive you, David.

[David]

  I will learn 

[LesD]

Sounds like you had the proverbial bad connection somewhere David.

I am glad its sorted and that you have that satisfied feeling that accompanies success. 

[David]

Thanks Les,thats the only thing I did not identify the problem,but Im happy I thought it something to do with the ram but as it is so quiet now at least its had a good clean and all connections are good now and I know just a little more than I did before so a small confidence booster for my main job.Maplins here I come 

[Glenn]

The problem was somewhere in the beige box. Well done for taking the plunge and stripping it down, cleaning it out then reassembling it. That new PC, once you have all the bits will be a breeze now.

[David]

  Thanks Glenn.its taught me to work at a snails pace and not 500 miles an hour think it took 4 hours.....................more hopeful must admit 

[vitriol]

glad you got it sorted david,

patience is indeed a vitrue especially where PC's and Windows are concerned.