dreadful speed/Not good service

old Bill · Nov 28, 2006, 21:00:49

Hi,
At this moment in time i am far from happy with Idnet and BT. Since the weekend my speeds have droped like a stone. Having just run a speed test my download speed was about 1.1. I called Idnet this morning who said they would report it to BT . I have enhanced care on my account so things should be solved quite quickly. I called C/S again around lunchtime to be told there was no news and some one would call me back. I waited untill 5.15 and the called again this time i was told that BT said the line was normal and they had sent me a email telling me this. Well i checked my email and there was no messages. i am paying around £90.00 pm for what i can only see at the moment is a pretty poor service. I dont think it will be to long before i ask for my Mac code if things dont get better.

Scott · Nov 28, 2006, 22:41:35

Good luck with your new ISP Bill...I'll wager a significant sum that your problem will migrate with you.

Inactive · Nov 28, 2006, 23:23:01

I agree with Scott, my connection rarely varies, I am one happy bunny with IDNet, good luck with your move Bill, I doubt that your new ISP will be able to fix your problem, however, it may be worth a try.

I havn't ever spoken to anyone at IDNet, my move to them was that smooth.

maxping · Nov 28, 2006, 23:44:22

Quote from: Inactive on Nov 28, 2006, 23:23:01

I havn't ever spoken to anyone at IDNet, my move to them was that smooth.

You didn't get the call on your first day from Simon to ask how things are going?

Inactive · Nov 29, 2006, 01:12:05

Quote from: maxping on Nov 28, 2006, 23:44:22
You didn't get the call on your first day from Simon to ask how things are going?

Nope, I have never spoken to any human beings at IDNet, no problem, my connection is fine, my migration to IDNet went like clockwork.

Perfect !!.

RJM · Nov 29, 2006, 08:30:21

old Bill,

I had terrible problems with speeds yesterday and contacted CS and have sent them test results as requested.

In fact speeds went down to 768 kbps last night - the lowest I have had on adsl or max adsl, so I gave up and went to bed.

This morning everything is back to normal.

I can certainly understand your frustration, but I have the feeling the problem lies with BT and all ISP's seem to get the run around from them. I would give IDNet a little longer to try resolve your issues and then consider a move if you wish. At the moment, it sounds that if you migrate away the inherit problem will move with you.

Robin

old Bill · Nov 29, 2006, 08:35:06

Its a shame to leave and as you say my line proberly wont improve by going elseware. But what really gets to me is when someone says that they will call, email you and they dont. I had hoped for better from Idnet. I am paying a large sum each monthfor what is a slow service. Ok my speeds wont improve but at least it wont cost me a fortune. Thanks for being a friendly bunch.

old Bill · Nov 29, 2006, 08:48:36

My download speed at best is 1.7 which when i joined Idnet was around 2.3. And looking at my stats i would think that my line would offer a great deal more.

Uptime: 0 days, 0:30:01

Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 832 / 3,712

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 2.58 / 21.58

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.0 / 49.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 8.0 / 15.5

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB /

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 113

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pick a task...

RJM · Nov 29, 2006, 09:06:17

I am afraid a "techie" will have to respond with your "router stats" figures.

I must admit, there is absolutely no excuse if you were informed that somebody would call you back. That would certainly would get my attention very quickly as I cannot tolerate bad manners.

Robin

Rik · Nov 29, 2006, 09:31:46

Quote from: old Bill on Nov 29, 2006, 08:48:36
My download speed at best is 1.7 which when i joined Idnet was around 2.3. And looking at my stats i would think that my line would offer a great deal more.

Uptime: 0 days, 0:30:01

Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 832 / 3,712

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 2.58 / 21.58

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 19.0

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 29.0 / 49.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 8.0 / 15.5

For that sync speed, I would have expected you to have a throughput of around 2800kbps. I also note your noise margin is unusally high, which is lowering your sync speed and, therefore, throughput. However, given the speeds you are experiencing for your current sync, it suggests there may be a problem elsewhere.

1) Is your computer using a wired or wireless connection?

2) If wireless, what security is implemented?

3) What values have you set for MTU and RWIN?

4) Have you eliminated an internal wiring issue by connecting to the test socket?

old Bill · Nov 29, 2006, 09:38:58

The router is plugged in to the master socket. It is a wireless connection using wpa security. The router is preconfigured by Idnet and changed from their end.

Rik · Nov 29, 2006, 10:02:16

The master socket and the test socket are two different things. To get to the latter if, and only if, you have an NTE5, you need to remove the lower part of the faceplate, and plug into the socket behind it. This disconnects any extensions, and therefore eliminates any problems with your internal wiring.

While there, you may wish to remove the ring wire from terminal 3 (usually orange/white) as this can make a big difference to noise margin. Don't touch terminals 2 and 5, these are the exchange pair.

What are your settings for MTU and RWIN? It could be you are throwing larger packets at the router than it's configured for, so fragmentation is occurring and slowing down your throughput.

old Bill · Nov 29, 2006, 12:29:21

Update
I pluged the router in to the test socket and there was no change in the results. However when i was talking to someone on the phone there seemed to be a lot of background noise so i have refaulted this to BT. If i can get rid of the noise on the line i feel this might help. I asked Idnet for my Mac code and a while later had a phone call from Simon who was in London asking if there was anything he could do to help. Now have a couple of things to try before i decide to leave. It was good of him to phone me, makes you feel a bit better.

Scott · Nov 29, 2006, 12:32:43

Y

inks...could this simply be something as simple as filters ?
OB...do you have a microfilter on every phone socket ? Even the Sky box ?
S

RJM · Nov 29, 2006, 12:33:53

I spoke too soon!

My speeds have dropped again.

Robin

Rik · Nov 29, 2006, 12:35:50

Old Bill: You could well have a line problem impacting on your service, and IDNet will get BT to send out an ADSL engineer if you keep working with them. The phone call from Simon is not untypical, and is one of the reasons people around here are so keen on the company - you really do get hands on support from the very top. I do fear that, if you choose to migrate, you will take your problems with you, as everything points to the issue being with BT, not IDNet.

However, I would still be interested to knwo your MTU and RWIN settings as these could contribute to low throughput.

old Bill · Nov 29, 2006, 12:38:21

Have new filters on all the sockets. When BT came out last week they found a break in the line. It may well be that the line has many more breaks in it. Strange this happend after very very heavy rain on Saturday. If i can find the setings i will post them.

Rik · Nov 29, 2006, 12:47:10

The breaks fit with the pattern of what's happening to you. It's possible for a break to stop the phone working but ADSL will continue as it can 'jump' the gap, albeit at a lower speed. Your line clearly needs to be thoroughly tested, end to end.

The easiest way to get the MTU/RWIN figures is to use a tool like TCP Optimizer, available here:

http://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php

Just run it, make sure the selected network interface is the one you are using, and let me know what the figures are. You can also use this app to set new values if needs be.

From the homepage of the site, you may also want to run their online TCP/IP analyzer (link on left), that will give you some indication of how efficient your setup is.

PS: Not all filters are created equal. I'd recommend the ADSL Nation XF-1e, particularly on poor lines, and mine is one!!

http://www.adslnation.com/products/xf-1e.php

old Bill · Nov 29, 2006, 19:29:27

Hi,
Well the chaps from BT said they could not find a fault but they changed me over to a spare set of cables at the exchange just in case. I downloaded the program to test my MTU just not sure what to do with it. I think i might have to go with Simons surgestion that i swap to a fixed rate line, and then a few weeks later swap back to ADSL Max which will make my line retrain.

Nerval · Nov 29, 2006, 19:43:46

All respect to Rik, I'd recommend ignoring MTU.
I don't know of any case where messing about with it has improved things, and nobody really seems to understand it - which tells me to leave well alone.

Mind you, it does give Rik something to do.

Glenn · Nov 29, 2006, 19:47:07

My ADSL line always cuts during very heavy rain, it did on Saturday morning just before I started a 24 hr online race, thankfully it reconnected and remained stable throughout the race.

Nerval · Nov 29, 2006, 20:07:43

Problem of course is to get BT on the case when it's raining heavily, and the fault would then stand out a mile.
But they don't like to get out of their vans till the rains stops, I suppose. I know I wouldn't.

There are supposed to be some BT people on AG, so it may be worth while going on there and trying to find how to get one out when you need him, rather than after the fault's gone away.

Rik · Nov 30, 2006, 08:38:31

Quote from: Nerval on Nov 29, 2006, 19:43:46
All respect to Rik, I'd recommend ignoring MTU.
I don't know of any case where messing about with it has improved things, and nobody really seems to understand it - which tells me to leave well alone.

Mind you, it does give Rik something to do.

I have to disagree, though I would say that.

I was able to improve my throughput by, on average 5%, by tuning the settings to suit the IP. There does seem to be a throttle in place somewhere in the IDNet system, which limits transmitted MTU to 1460. Bombarding their network with larger packets will cause these to fragment and will slow throughput. It's easy to experiment, and easy to return to the original settings, so I would always recommend trying if throughput is low relative to sync speed and BRAS profile. And, as you say, it does give me something to do.

Rik · Nov 30, 2006, 08:45:22

Quote from: old Bill on Nov 29, 2006, 19:29:27
Hi,
Well the chaps from BT said they could not find a fault but they changed me over to a spare set of cables at the exchange just in case. I downloaded the program to test my MTU just not sure what to do with it. I think i might have to go with Simons surgestion that i swap to a fixed rate line, and then a few weeks later swap back to ADSL Max which will make my line retrain.

Make a note of the existing numbers, then try settings MTU to 1458 (Miriam's recommended figure) and RWIN to 63810. Use the other settings shown below (you need to select 'custom' to do this), click on 'Modify all network adapters' and then 'Apply'.

Do a speed test, see if things change, also check the settings on the link I gave your previously.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Nerval · Nov 30, 2006, 08:48:15

Yo Rik
I'm all for keeping you busy, just didn't want the guy with the problem to get his hopes raised, is all.

5% throughput increase eh? I'm amazed you can measure it to that degree of accuracy, and then that you can attribute it to the MTU change. But then I'm in a state of constant amazement anyway - must ask nursie to increase my lithium.

aslant!

Rik · Nov 30, 2006, 09:01:39

Hi

I try not to raise people's hopes, but always like to explore and eliminate potential sources of problems. Not being privy to what is being said between the OP and IDNet, there may be a good reason for the reversion to a fixed-speed product, before trying again - though it's my understanding that ISPs can arrange for the training period to be re-started.

My big concern is that a prefigured router from IDNet is likely to use the 1458 MTU which Miriam recommends (though I don't know as I didn't buy a router from them). If this is the case and the OP is throwing 1500 packets at it, he's got fragmentation before data even leaves his machine. Tweaking can make significant changes in that situation.

I get very consistent speeds, within 2-3kbps, a little slower than I got at Nildram, but they did have an MTU of 1500, so I'd expect that. Because of the quality and lenght of my line, I'm on a 2500 profile, and need all the help I can get. Tweaking really can, with patience, achieve that. There's a few registry tweaks that can be done additionally to increase the performance of IE6, if used (which I must for my 'net banking).

For the record, optimum performance on Wanadoo was obtained with an MTU of 1430, while AOL users need to set it at 1400.

old Bill · Dec 02, 2006, 20:51:19

Update,
Have just run the BT speedtester. Very happy with the following result.
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 3000 kbps
DSL connection rate: 832 kbps(UP-STREAM) 3776 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2771 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

BT were supposed to upgrade my exchange today, Pehaps they have at long last got round to doing it. Might just be that my line is starting to recover from all the breaks in it. Anyway its going in the right direction now, thanks for everyones help.

Inactive · Dec 02, 2006, 23:41:14

Looking good old bill, fingers crossed..