Warning letters

[Steve]

Will they enforce the ultimate sanction

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7522334.stm

[Simon]

Many net firms have resisted the call from the BPI and have said it was not their job to act as policemen.

I can perfectly understand that, and agree, just like it's not Shell, Esso, or BPs job to enforce road safety.

[Dopamine]

The porn industry is subject to piracy of a magnitude that dwarfs that suffered by the music industry, yet I can't imagine any ISP agreeing to police the theft or unauthorised reproduction and sharing of porn.

The BPI should do what any other copyright holder has to when faced with theft; take, and pay for, legal action. Quite why the government is bending over backwards to help a very rich industry is a mystery....

or rather, it's indicative of a government that is not independent of the music industry. I wonder just how much money is donated to the Labour party each year by music industry execs.

I don't download music, either legally or illegally, so have nothing to fear, but as a matter of principle I would never give my custom to any ISP that did enforce such a sanction.

[Gary]

I download music legally,bought from a site called Beatport, so how would a ISP determine if my downloads are legal or not?

[Inactive]

If the music/film industry were not so greedy, and didn't charge so much, people may well be tempted to pay for stuff, I have no sympathy with them.

I agree fully with what Dopamine has written.

[Gary]

What worries me, In is that all this is just the start of watching you and what you do more closely online, and with government pressures and the music industry, which as you say makes enough out of people already, if ISP's wont be almost sanctioned into trying to do this. What next, banning the import of cheap cd's from the states? I can buy from America, including postage cheaper than I can buy in a UK HMV  

[Steve]

I download music legally,bought from a site called Beatport, so how would a ISP determine if my downloads are legal or not?

I presume the BPI will be telling the ISP that one of their customer's with an IP address of x has illegally downloaded y from site z and as said before leave the ISP to do the dirty work.

[Gary]

I presume the BPI will be telling the ISP that one of their customer's with an IP address of x has illegally downloaded y from site z and as said before leave the ISP to do the dirty work.

Well said ISP could go *blank* itself if it tried that on as nany ISP's have stated its not their job, but the government and the music industry are very good at applying a little force where it hurts reports are its "BT, Virgin Media, Orange, Tiscali, BSkyB and Carphone Warehouse" who are the culprits

[Gary]

I presume the BPI will be telling the ISP that one of their customer's with an IP address of x has illegally downloaded y from site z and as said before leave the ISP to do the dirty work.

But they cant if I actually pay for it, this is music that's allowed by artist/or lable to be bought online instead of in the shop but how can they tell? they can't label every legal downloader as illegal to proven otherwise, unless they a list of online sites that offer legal music downloads and know you are shopping there......god forbid that day happens with my ISP, BE/O2. I think the smaller ISP's have more to lose, the big 6 never cared in the first place having been with Orange, the worst ISP of all time.....now if IDnet  get to start putting out adsl2+ when BT enable the exchanges...... Saying that when we move if the new exchange is non LLU i'll be back anyway

[somanyholes]

A brief summary of what happens here

http://torrentfreak.com/this-is-how-we-catch-you-downloading/

[Steve]

But they cant if I actually pay for it, this is music that's allowed by artist/or lable to be bought online instead of in the shop

I agree that is not an illegal download, they will be watching certain sites and servers full of pirated material and then following the download path. I was reprimanded a year or so ago whilst with pipex, as my son downloaded something belonging to paramount pictures,  I was informed that if this happened again that my broadband service would cease.

No bad thing with that ISP but I presumed getting them to release the line then may have been difficult.

[Gary]

A brief summary of what happens here

http://torrentfreak.com/this-is-how-we-catch-you-downloading/

Not very comprehensive then, So as most people I know who use p2p use bit torrent its going to be fun tracking them, must admit I never have, or will use those sites

[Tacitus]

i think the reason the Government is so interested is that it's keen on the idea of "Intellectual Property" as it sees this country as the centre of the 'Knowledge Industry'.  Whether you think that's fanciful matters not, since they see a major source of the country's income coming from 'knowledge based industries' then they need to establish/enforce the idea that property rights extend to the intellectual sphere.

The idea of intellectual property has virtually vanished in the music industry or for that matter in computer software, so I think these are the opening shots.  In any event I fail to understand why people download music as the quality of most of it is poor.  Go to any market on a Saturday and you will find stalls selling CDs which will also part exchange any you bring.  Or go on any student campus and you will find someone setting up a stall to do the same. Effective cost per CD minimal, quality as good as you want.

The thing I don't like is the ISP monitoring what I do and where I do it.  Not that I have anything to hide you understand  , but once the principle is established where does it end.  

Feargal Sharkey's idea that we will be able to download all we want for £30 a year is an attempt to gain a recurring revenue scheme.  So long as you keep up the payments your music exists, stop it and your music collection built up over years vanishes.  People will go for that?  I always thought he was a complete prat when he was a performer, this idea confirms it.

[Gary]

I agree that is not an illegal download, they will be watching certain sites and servers full of pirated material and then following the download path. I was reprimanded a year or so ago whilst with pipex, as my son downloaded something belonging to paramount pictures,  I was informed that if this happened again that my broadband service would cease.

No bad thing with that ISP but I presumed getting them to release the line then may have been difficult.

People with lines permanently tagged is one sure way of cutting down the bandwidth issues the big six are worried about as the net saturates with users

[Gary]

Feargal Sharkey's idea that we will be able to download all we want for £30 a year is an attempt to gain a recurring revenue scheme.  So long as you keep up the payments your music exists, stop it and your music collection built up over years vanishes.  People will go for that?  I always thought he was a complete prat when he was a performer, this idea confirms it.

Oh that's a great Idea,  could not agree with you more, maybe if he had been more successful in his later years he would not try to be doing this 

[Steve]

I presume the real offenders will be able to "hide" themselves and as usual in this country only the minor offender will be caught.

[Gary]

I presume the real offenders will be able to "hide" themselves and as usual in this country only the minor offender will be caught.

There are enough ways to hide your IP on the net if you want, so your are probably right

[Steve]

The idea of intellectual property has virtually vanished in the music industry or for that matter in computer software, so I think these are the opening shots.

But why have they waited until its completely broke before fixing it

In any event I fail to understand why people download music as the quality of most of it is poor.  Go to any market on a Saturday and you will find stalls selling CDs which will also part exchange any you bring.  Or go on any student campus and you will find someone setting up a stall to do the same. Effective cost per CD minimal, quality as good as you want.

I thought people certainly young people were not purchasing hard copy any more, hence the reason for the clampdown by the music industry as revenue and profitability has fallen.

[Gary]

Some music is not available on CD some types of music are purely MP3 or wav format downloads, on the site I use legally I can download MP3's using 320kbs format or use wav, which is a huge download so quality is not a major issue.

[somanyholes]

Not very comprehensive then, So as most people I know who use p2p use bit torrent its going to be fun tracking them, must admit I never have, or will use those sites

heres how they track bit torrent kill, watch the video.

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9202/VIDEO+-+%27How+the+MPAA+&+RIAA+Track+People+Using+BitTorrent%27/

[Gary]

heres how they track bit torrent kill, watch the video.

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9202/VIDEO+-+%27How+the+MPAA+&+RIAA+Track+People+Using+BitTorrent%27/

Scary, guess there are going to be a lot of letters going out, hope its on recycled paper though  it will need to be.

[somanyholes]

Ways p2p users attempt to cover their tracks

1. use usenet
2. use tor
3. use seedbox's or pay for remote vpn gateways
4. use somebody else's wireless connection, either by breaking in or connecting to open ones (obviously the person who owns the line is not going to have a good time, this is becoming more prevalant)
5. claiming their wireless has been abused, proof of this is starting to be needed. Simply setup syslog on your router/ap, connect to your own network use a vm and spoof your mac address, so you can prove you where abused, an ip is still not identifiable.....
6. ignore the lawsuit letters, seems to work for a lot of people.

and so on ....

[Gary]

I tried Tor once, really wrecked my line speeds, as you say many will wriggle out, but the vast majority of small users like my friends daughter will get hammered sadly.

[somanyholes]

tor's not good for speed, and p2p users should not use it, it ruins their network.

As far as children are concerned kill have a read of this.

http://torrentfreak.com/uk-file-sharers-and-the-wireless-defense-080717/

the bit you are interested in is here

"Both Scots law and English law provide that a parent generally is not liable for the actions of their child, and that a civil judgment is as binding on a child as it is on an adult. There are, though, some circumstances in which a parent can become responsible for the child's actions. That can happen when a child causes injury to others or where a parent has previously authorised or subsequently ratified the child's unlawful act."

[Gary]

I'll pass that along, would hate to see her or her parents get in trouble, she only downloads a few songs now and then, for crying out I taped loads of music back in he day, its he same difference, just with new technology

[vitriol]

que mass exodus of people from those ISP's.  Once they see their business dwindling will they still be taking action?

[somanyholes]

I'll pass that along, would hate to see her or her parents get in trouble, she only downloads a few songs now and then, for crying out I taped loads of music back in he day, its he same difference, just with new technology

have a look at songbird, when installed use the skreemr button, type in a track name, and hey presto you have legitimate music that is unlikely to be tracked as it's downloaded from websites not from p2p environments 

[Steve]

Yes, but looking at the list some of them will be on long term contracts. I know it sounds stupid but I ask the question will they still be liable for a service they cannot connect to for the remaining portion of the contract? I am presuming they will be liable otherwise its sounds a good way of escaping a poor provider.

[somanyholes]

an example here. The top half you can see shows music you can stream, the bottom half shows music you can download.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Tacitus]

But why have they waited until its completely broke before fixing it

Growing businesses (eg software) brings increased revenue.  Increased revenue for a government is antithetical to long term thinking, they tend to leave well alone.

I thought people certainly young people were not purchasing hard copy any more, hence the reason for the clampdown by the music industry as revenue and profitability has fallen.

Buy one CD and rip it.  You then part exchange it for another which you rip.  Another person does the same.  One CD bought = many users.  A lot of the stuff, certainly on the student stall with which I'm most familiar is not the very latest stuff (or so it appears to me  , but it's by no means old.  It's not as cheap as 'free', but you can rip it in whatever format you like: mp3, AAC, lossless, OGG etc.

[Gary]

an example here. The top half you can see shows music you can stream, the bottom half shows music you can download.

That's really useful, So I shall pass that on

[talos2]

I freely admit to using P to Peer software to download music, the kind of music I like are the "oldies" 60s,50s etc , music you just cant get any other way, shure the music companies will sell you a compilation at an inflated price, but how much better it would be if the put them up on their own websites as downloads for a few pence each, I would willingly pay esp if the proceeds where going to the original artists.

[Inactive]

 

[MoHux]

I believe this link has been posted before.  But for any who like vintage music and may have missed/forgotten it;

Here  or should I say 'Hear'!! 


Mo

[Noreen]

Yes, I posted it ages ago, Mo. Great isn't it? Good to remind people.

[madasahatter]

If the music/film industry were not so greedy, and didn't charge so much, people may well be tempted to pay for stuff, I have no sympathy with them.

Totally agree - that is the real problem. If legal downloads were properly priced, then a lot more peeps would do that. What the industry doesn't want you to see is that they take most of the money and give the artists a very small percentage - all their bleating about "it's taking money away from the artists" is utter rubbish - it's the hit to their own very large pockets caused by illegal downloading that they are really worried about, and a few thousand quid in donations here and there is a pittance to them.

[D-Dan]

I freely admit to using P to Peer software to download music, the kind of music I like are the "oldies" 60s,50s etc , music you just cant get any other way, shure the music companies will sell you a compilation at an inflated price, but how much better it would be if the put them up on their own websites as downloads for a few pence each, I would willingly pay esp if the proceeds where going to the original artists.

I, too, have used P2P to download oldies. And I freely admit it, since I'm not breaking the law. Copyright expires after 50 years, and my preferred genre is 50's stuff - which is out of copyright.

Of course, how would the "police" know what was copyright, and when copyright had expired.

Steve

[rst1978]

I may be barking up the wrong tree but....

BT advertises this on their website as part of their broadband package..

BT Digital Vault – 5GB15GB storage
Included with BT Total Broadband
2,000 Photos
1,000 Music files
5 Video files
500 Documents

So you can upload music and movies to I'm assuming BT servers who are in a roundabout way downloading them from your pc, do BT own the rights to store these files?  Will they send a letter to themselves? I'm guessing not.

[Rik]

I suspect that, somewhere in the small print, they put the copyright onus on the user.  Shame, it would have been nice to add that to the Phorm case.

[john]

Totally agree - that is the real problem. If legal downloads were properly priced, then a lot more peeps would do that. What the industry doesn't want you to see is that they take most of the money and give the artists a very small percentage - all their bleating about "it's taking money away from the artists" is utter rubbish - it's the hit to their own very large pockets caused by illegal downloading that they are really worried about, and a few thousand quid in donations here and there is a pittance to them.

[vitriol]

It's a shame that you can't buy direct from the artist.

[Rik]

That's the ultimate solution, and one the record companies fear.