Any ideas what these "Exit Codes" mean?

[Jimbo]

Hey everyone,

My internet has been playing up again recently, pretty much everyday I have a poor sync speed.  I've been reading through some threads and it seems that BT could be the cause; mucking on at the exchanges.

I've just opened up my DSL Diagnostic page on the 2700, any ideas?  My Attenuation and Noise Margin seem to be rubbish, but look at my random sync speeds (all over the place... I've had 5 alone today!).  I never seem to be able to connect at the same speed one day to the next!  And look at the errors! 


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/Computer/BB_Results.jpg


In the past, I've had BT out, the faceplate replaced on the mastersocket.  I now connect to the mastersocket with a shielded ADSL cable.  I've moved my digital phone and changed the wireless channels.  It must be something to do with the exchange or the cable in to the house surely to have this much randomness with my line??? 

Thanks!

[kinmel]

that is a seriously poor line and BT have upped your target SNR to 15 in an attempt to stabilise it and yet it is still disconnecting all the time.

Do you get better results if you connect directly to the test socket behind the faceplate, using a filter of course.

[Jimbo]

that is a seriously poor line and BT have upped your target SNR to 15 in an attempt to stabilise it and yet it is still disconnecting all the time.

Do you get better results if you connect directly to the test socket behind the faceplate, using a filter of course.

Isn't it just mate.  It's been like this awhile, but for the most I just put up with it which is probably not the thing to do when I'm paying for a service which I'm not getting (not IDNet's fault btw).  IDNet support is first class! 

If I was to whip off the new faceplate again, do you want me to connect direct or use a filter?  If I was to connect direct would I loose the landline for the phone?

Thanks.

[kinmel]

If I was to whip off the new faceplate again, do you want me to connect direct or use a filter?  If I was to connect direct would I loose the landline for the phone?

Take off the faceplate and put a filter into the test socket.

Connect your router and a phone into the appropriate filter sockets and leave them connected for a while to see if the disconnects continue to happen.

Any wired telephone extensions around the house will not work during this test

post the results back here later

[Jimbo]

Take off the faceplate and put a filter into the test socket.

Connect your router and a phone into the appropriate filter sockets and leave them connected for a while to see if the disconnects continue to happen.

Any wired telephone extensions around the house will not work during this test

post the results back here later

Ok cool, will do. Watch this space.

[Glenn]

Jimbo, I was getting a lot of problems a couple of months ago, it caused a lot of re-sync's and lots of FEC errors like you have. The problem was caused by a bad joint in the cabling to the street cabinet.

If the test with the faceplate doesn't solve the problem, contact support, they will test the line. If they can't find an obvious problem, it can be sent to BT and then possibly an engineer visit, there maybe a callout charge if the engineer identifies a problem in you house though.

[Jimbo]

Jimbo, I was getting a lot of problems a couple of months ago, it caused a lot of re-sync's and lots of FEC errors like you have. The problem was caused by a bad joint in the cabling to the street cabinet.

If the test with the faceplate doesn't solve the problem, contact support, they will test the line. If they can't find an obvious problem, it can be sent to BT and then possibly an engineer visit, there maybe a callout charge if the engineer identifies a problem in you house though.

I think that's what I did last time.  The BT engineer replaced the faceplate and it cost like £180.  Still having bother though, as you can see. 

Cheers for the help though.  I'll monitor the results through the testsocket and report back.

I think it's the cable like you say...

[Jimbo]

Hmmm. 5hrs and no line drop.  Still getting CRC and FEC errors in the thousands.  Just downloaded from the net at ~170kbps.  I'll leave it in over night and then see what happens tomorrow night after work.

[Sebby]

Let us know. It's not a filtered faceplate, is it (i.e. it's just a normal faceplate)?

If it's an ordinary faceplate, and connecting to the master socket cures the reboots, the culprit is almost certainly noise being picked up by internal wiring. If you can site your router at the master socket permanently, you should get yourself a filtered faceplate. If you can't do that, you should remove the ring wire (connected to terminal 3) from all sockets.

[Lance]

FEC errors are nothing to worry about - I get millions of them. It is just the router doing it's job with the interleaving.

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the help.  FYI it was a filtered faceplate on the master socket.

Well it has re-sync'd once since yesterday.  It stayed up 19hrs, then re-sync'd early this morning.  I've now dropped from nearly 2mb sync to 1mb sync speed.  Attenutation and noise still the same.  It has been sync'd at this lower speed since 9:30am this morning.

I'm going to keep logging the results all week and build up a nice picture of what's happening for Monday coming.

[kinmel]

You may want to try another router to compare with your own if you can borrow one for a few hours.

There is no need to keep the test running for days upon end, any difference is immediately noticeable.

[Sebby]

Let us know how you get on.

[Montala]

That is a seriously poor line and BT have upped your target SNR to 15 in an attempt to stabilise it ...

Hi,

Apologies for 'jumping in' on this one, but I curious as to exactly how you can tell that from the figures quoted.

I am absolutely hopless at things like signal to noise ratios, attenuation etc, and would like to check the 'condition' of my own line, bearing in mind that I am well over 3 miles from the nearest exchange.

Perhaps someone could clarify which figures I should be looking at... and how to get them in he first place!

Thanks.

[Rik]

A 'normal' line starts with a target noise margin of 6db. If the line is unstable, BT will use a combination of techniques to try to achieve stability, one of these is to raise the target margin in 3db steps (which will reduce sync speed by 5-700kbps) up to a maximum of 15db. Once the margin has been raised in this way, it's extremely difficult to get BT to reduce it again, unless they find and clear a fault. In theory, if you can remain synchronised for 14/15 days, the target margin should reduce automatically by 3db, repeating until you lose stability again. Unfortunately, this doesn't always seem to be the case.

The figures which matter are the sync speed, line attenuation and noise margin. Most routers will report these. The most significant ones are the downstream figures, as these are your speed, as you perceive it. However, there are times when the upstream figures reveal an issue, so both are always helpful.

[Montala]

Thanks for (as always!) your very prompt reply Rik.

However I am still not quite sure how I access the figures to look at in the first place, (i.e what I have to do to actually get the reports) as I would love to see how my line is set up.

[Rik]

Are you on a 2700 router? If so, enter http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=J03&THISPAGE=A02_POST&NEXTPAGE=J03 into the address bar of your browser (you'll be asked for the system password).

[Montala]

I am indeed... and this is what it produced:

Broadband Link – Statistics  ATM Statistics
  IP Statistics
DSL  Down  Up
Current Rate:  1056 kbs   448 kbs 
Max Rate:  1056 kbs   740 kbs 
Current Connection:
Current Noise Margin:  15.0 dB   15.0 dB 
Current Attenuation:  63.0 dB   31.5 dB 
Current Output Power:  15.8 dBm   11.9 dBm 

ATM  Cells  Errors  %
Transmit:  356928  0  0
Receive:  1389446  0  0

IP  Bytes  Packets  Errors  %
Transmit:  13952227  69432  0  0
Receive:  63823347  75333  0  0

I did say it was a slow line, and it does look as if I am on the max. SNR settings anyway.

Any other observations from anyone, please?

[Rik]

Have you tried connecting to the test socket behind the master socket if you have an NTE5 master (the kind where the bottom part of the faceplate can be removed).

TBH, you're not ever going to get high speeds with 63db of attenuation, prior to Max you'd have only got a 512k service at most. OTOH, if you are picking up noise in your internal wiring, reducing it might gain you another 1Mbps or so.

[Montala]

I haven't tried that yet, but could certainly do so. I think I do have the master socket you mentioned... it is one where the rest of the extension wiring is filtered internally, and which has two outlets, one being just for my broadband connection.

As I live about three and a half miles from the exchange (although fortunately immediately adjacent to a feeder pillar) I am not expecting a high speed connection anyway, but at least it is reliable... unlike some of my neighbours, so I suppose I should at least be thankful for that.

At least it didn't show any actual errors, which I assume is encouraging?

[kinmel]

The 15dB noise margin means your line is fairly unstable and you can probably make an improvement to your download speed.

try the test Rik has suggested and post those figures back here

[Rik]

You'll find the errors listed here:

http://192.168.1.254/xslt?PAGE=J42

If you have a filtered face plate, there's nothing more you can do (except keep the lead between router and socket as short as possible). Some lines are not meant to go fast, and yours is probably one of them.

[Jimbo]

Wow.  5 re-sync's again today, here's the screenshot from my excel spreadsheet.  This is from the test socket remember (highlighted in yellow on the screenshot).  Highlighed in red are the important figures.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/Computer/BB_Stats2.jpg

Should I contact support about this?  I'm going to try a different filter into the test socket in case the one I'm using is broken....(I very much doubt it though and believe it is an external factor).

What do people think?

Thanks.

[Montala]

Just been there Rik, and here's the result:

Troubleshooting – DSL Diagnostics
General Information
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Downstream Rate Cap: 8128 kbps
Downstream Atten. at 300kHz: 65.7 dB

Uncancelled Echo: -11.2 dB Ok
VCXO Frequency Offset: 5.1 ppm Ok
Final Rx Gain: 34.5 dB Ok
Impulse Noise Comp. Tones: 0 Ok
Excessive Impulse Noise: 0 Ok
Impulse noise protection:  0.65
Delay of latency path:  4.00 ms

Training History
Downstream  Upstream
Time Line  Rate Max1 Max2 Max3 Mgn1 Mgn2 Attn Pwr CRCs FECs INP DLY  Rate Max Mgn Attn Pwr CRCs FECs  Mode Vendor State Exit Code Echo VCXO Rx Gain INC Tones
2008/07/30 16:41:52 BST 1  1024 1048 784 784 15.3 6.0 65.2 15.7 613 1292 0.67 4.00  448 736 15.0 31.5 11.9 101 143  G.DMT Annex A Alcatel 230/105 ERR_LOF_LIMIT -13.7 -4.8 34.5 1
2008/07/30 17:57:41 BST 1  1056 1076 868 868 15.3 15.0 65.2 15.8 24 252 0.65 4.00  448 740 15.0 31.5 11.9 0 6  G.DMT Annex A Alcatel 229/103 N/A -11.2 5.1 34.5 0

Notes:
Time Time of last update
Max1 Max. rate at start of connection
Max2 Current or final estimated max. rate
Max3 Current or final estimated max. rate without INC
Mgn1 Noise margin at start of connection
Mgn2 Current or final noise margin
DLY Delay of latency path


Probably a straight 'copy and paste' wasn't the best way to display the results, but it's all double dutch to me!

I don't think it's too bad though... is it?

[Montala]

Sorry Jimbo... I seem to have 'hijacked' your thread!

[Rik]

As far as I can see, your FEC errors are at 1292, which is quite low if the router has been on all day. You may just be able to tweak some more out of the line, but you'd have to start by leaving the router powered up for 14/15 days.

[kinmel]

Wow.  5 re-sync's again today, here's the screenshot from my excel spreadsheet.  This is from the test socket remember (highlighted in yellow on the screenshot).  Highlighed in red are the important figures.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/j_firegod/Computer/BB_Stats2.jpg

Should I contact support about this?  I'm going to try a different filter into the test socket in case the one I'm using is broken....(I very much doubt it though and believe it is an external factor).

What do people think?

Thanks.

Well you are getting similar results with the filtered faceplate as when using the test socket with a separate filter, so it is not likely to be a fault in your internal wiring, or filters.

It is possible that your router is at fault and it is worth trying another if you can borrow one for a few hours. If so there is no need to set the router up, simply plug it in and then read sync, attenuation and SNR, if they remain the same as before the problem is on BT's line and you can ask Idnet to investigate the problem with BT.

[Sebby]

It's always worth pointing out that if BT find no problem (very likely - they're good at that) you'll be left with a £160 + VAT bill.

[Montala]

If though you can prove to BT that 'their line' is not performing as it should... i.e. you are not getting what you are paying for, I can't really see how they can charge you for a visit.

When we initially moved into our present property and were regularly 'loosing' the internet connection, I asked them to call on two separate occasions, and even though they could not identify an actual fault on the line itself, we were not charged for either visit.

The problem was later cured by a change in their settings on our line at the local exchange, and although it's not brilliant now it is loads better than it ever was before. Personally I would rather sacrifice an element of speed for better reliability and continuity of connection.

[Sebby]

When it comes to broadband, they can quite easily say there's no fault. They're not really bothered about the sync you should be able to receive.

[Jimbo]

Wow I love this marvel that is broadband.  Today's pot-luck speed is.....


256kbps! 


What a bloody joke... yes I'm slightly peeved today and apologise in advance, but you would think we were back in era of dial-up here.  I have emailed IDNet (on Thursday) and had a nice, quick, reply back the next day, so we're just waiting on BT Wholesale to get back and then IDNet will update me.  Apparently IDNet have ran an external check and everything appears to be ok.

Still connected to the test socket with a filter.

[Sebby]

It's probably still the profile. Can you run a BT speed test?

[Jimbo]

It's probably still the profile. Can you run a BT speed test?

After posting my speed I reset my DSL connection, it connected back at 1632kbps.  Just ran a speedtest now, results are below mate.



Is that back to normal now would you say?

[Rik]

That profile is now too high for your sync speed, Jimbo, so expect it to drop back to 1250. As it stood the throughput was a little low for the profile, but that's partially accounted for by the lower sync speed, which would become the limiting factor.

[Sebby]

What Rik said.

[Jimbo]

Well I'm getting an Engineer out.  After hearing back from support basically BT have come back and said that the line should only do 1Mb and the fact that I sometimes get nearly 2Mb is good enough and they feel that the issue is resolved (even though they've done nothing!).  Well I say done nothing, they say the line has held since Friday.... my results below, beg to differ!

I'm annoyed to think that in the 21st Centuty, BT think 1Mb Broadband is acceptable.  Here's a thought, instead of faffing around going "ooooh new 20Mb Broadband this that and whatever" on the TV, why not invest so time and effort in getting everyone a respectible speed to start with!! 

Anyway, I have emailed support back as apparently I was sync'd at 2Mb this morning but I have come in from work and I am only sync'd at 1Mb.  And here are the results for the last 3 days:-

2/8/2008

1184
1888
1216
960
256
1920

3/8/2008

1632

4/8/2008

1056
0
1024


Now does anyone think I'm being unresonable here?  10 resyncs in 3 days?  I mean this is at the Test Socket so it surely points to my line being the problem?!  Look at those speeds on the 2nd, 256kbps and 960kbps.  Why should I bother paying for up to 8Mb broadband when actually I'd be better sticking with dialup...

Not IDNet's fault here, it's BT!  I can't wait for the engineer to come out so I can give him all this info, it's just not on!!!

[Simon]

Here's a thought, instead of faffing around going "ooooh new 20Mb Broadband this that and whatever" on the TV, why not invest so time and effort in getting everyone a respectable speed to start with!!

Something that's been said often on here, Jimbo.

Best of luck with the engineer - have a karma to help things along. 

[Sebby]

I don't think you're being unreasonable; just don't expect a lot. BT's network is really showing it's age, and unless they can find an obvious problem, they'll just say it's the way it is.

It might be worth telling the engineer that you intermittently get cross-talk on the line. The fix for that seems to be to switch you over to a different pair, which may solve the ADSL problem.

[Rik]

As Sebby says, Jimbo, you're not being unreasonable, but be careful of pushing too hard. BT have no obligation to provide ADSL on a line and can condemn one as unsuitable at their sole discretion. If the engineering costs become too high, I've known them do just that.

[Jimbo]

Ok thanks for the replies guys... and Karma.  I've calmed down a bit now after a good night's kip on the matter.  Time to cross all those fingers and toes and see what the Engineer thinks.   

[Rik]

Keep us posted.