Bras keep changing size!

DorsetBoy · Dec 05, 2006, 18:34:56

Oops..........I mean the line profile is different every other day

I thought that once ADSL Max was set up and the training period was over the profile should be set and stay set,but here in Wareham it is jumping around like crazy.

What are they up to?

stevelondon · Dec 05, 2006, 19:26:40

was gonna say go for Playtex

DorsetBoy · Dec 05, 2006, 19:30:19

Quote from: stevelondon on Dec 05, 2006, 19:26:40
was gonna say go for Playtex

That's the problem............BT obviously use Wonderbra......................wonder what switch to press now

mrapoc · Dec 05, 2006, 19:33:48

Yea often bt do this as a joke, they need cheering up as they sit around in their vans waiting for results over the intercom. Seriously call idnet and they should poke bt with a stick till its sorted

DorsetBoy · Dec 05, 2006, 19:56:20

Quote from: mrapoc on Dec 05, 2006, 19:33:48
Yea often bt do this as a joke, they need cheering up as they sit around in their vans waiting for results over the intercom. Seriously call idnet and they should poke bt with a stick till its sorted

I did contact Miriam via email but it was suggested that they could not do anything about it

In the last 3 weeks the profile has been 3000k,4000k,4500k,5000k,5500k,6000k,6500k and each time I turn on the router the value is different.

I know the line can run at the MAX,I am less than 1 mile from the exchange and in the first week of adsl max the profile was at 7500k and the speeds were superb.

If it has to be 6000k or as most of last week 6500k then fine but lets have one setting and keep it.

I guess a phone call this time

Nerval · Dec 06, 2006, 07:23:05

Quote from: DorsetBoy on Dec 05, 2006, 18:34:56

I thought that once ADSL Max was set up and the training period was over the profile should be set and stay set,

No, the idea behind Max is that, for the rest of your life (or as long as you're on Max anyway) it constantly monitors your line and makes sure your profile is the best one for your line at any time.

Changes up take 3 days, changes down take a couple of hours - in theory anyway.
So even if you get a good profile, Max may decide to change it down and you're stuck with it till it decides to change it up again.

The initial training period thing is just to stop people ringing up and moaning before Max has had a decent interval to get your profile sorted out - they usually say ten days, but mine took only a couple of days before it gave me a decentish profile.

If you're getting wild variations, then that implies that some recurring event, somewhere on your line, is causing Max to think that your line is unstable at higher speeds. Whether that's something in your house (central heating, Christmas light, kids unplugging the line too often) I've no idea, but you might have a think about it.

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 08:50:04

Which router do you use and can you provide the Attenuation figures / Signal Noise Margin figures? If you are that close to the exchange you could hope for a steady 8128 / 448 sync but of course the actual cable may meander all over the place!

Have you tried NOT disconnecting the router once you have it syncing at a higher rate - will it hold that rate or do you suffer disconnections? If you are using a USB router then I suppose you have to turn your PC off at some point. An Ethernet router which you can leave on is to be recommended however for a number of reasons.

Have you tried the BT Quiet Line test to see if there may be a fault on the line?

Unplug any extension phones, extension cables, answer machines or fax (anything except the phone you will use to do the test!).

Plug a normal touch tone phone directly into the BT master socket.

Dial 17070, press option 2 (quiet line test)

You should hear 'Quiet Line Test' and then silence, there should be no pops, clicks, whistles, buzzing etc. If there is noise on the line, make sure it's not your phones connection to the socket (wiggle it about a bit) and that you are using the master socket. If you are sure its the line making the noise then dial BT and report the fault, they should be able to sort it out. Remember that 'mis-reporting' a fault (e.g. if it turns out to be your phone, extension cord etc.) may be charged a call-out fee by BT.

Good luck!

RJM · Dec 06, 2006, 09:58:44

May, I ask a question please Meerkat?

I have ZyXEL USB/Ethernet router - my computer is left on 24/7.

My speeds are much faster by using the USB connection; if I use the ethernet connection speeds drop considerably. Any ideas of why?

I am a "luddite" when it comes to modems or routers, so please excuse my ignorance if there is obvious answer.

Robin

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 10:14:14

Hello

A good question and I must confess that I have never come across anyone saying that the Ethernet connection was slower that the USB connection on the same router!
As you are probably aware, the main reasons that generally an ethernet connection is to be preferred is that it relieves the PC cpu of most the processing effort, and it removes potential issues regarding flaky USB drivers etc. And of course you can turn your PC off and yet retain the connection.

Having said all of which, I would not have expected any real detectable difference in actual speed achieved for either connection method at Max DSL speeds.

I stand back slightly baffled!

Nerval · Dec 06, 2006, 10:25:27

You should be aware that routers do vary in the speeds they can maintain, due to their sensitivity (dependent mainly on the chipset used).

For example, I used to have a Solwise router, then an Origo/Safecom, and both synched at between 3.5 and 4.5Mb, giving me downloads on about 3Mb on average.

I switched to a Netgear DG834 and now my synch rate is 5.5 to 6Mb, and stays there, with downloads of 4 to 4.5Mb.

One would assume that USB modems vary too, but I know nothing about them, never having had one.

RJM · Dec 06, 2006, 10:34:47

Thanks for the reply Meerkat.

On average, I get speeds of 4.6 on a line profile of 5.5 using the USB 2.0 connection.

When, I changed over to the ethernet connection, the speeds dropped to just under 3.5 on average. I was a little disappointed as I have heard that it would be better to use the latter.

Sorry to hijack the thread.

Robin

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 10:52:42

RJM - Very weird! I suppose it could just be that the time you tried the ethernet connection, the line noise was higher than usual (ie at night generally) and thus the sync speed was lower?

Nerval - Point completely accepted however in this case it seems as if the router concerned has both an Ethernet and a USB connector! I do have a small collection of routers (BT Voyager 2110, Speedtouch 585, and Netgear DG834 v 2) picked up cheaply on eBay and they certainly do have different characteristics. I currently swear by the Voyager, having previously been a disciple of the Netgear .... but thats a different story!

Nerval · Dec 06, 2006, 10:55:01

Do you get better line speeds with the voyager?

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 11:10:24

Apologies to Dorsetboy for hijacking his thread!

The great advantage of the Voyager is that it allowed me to manually tweak the Signal Noise Margin down from about 15db (this had clearly been raised automatically by the BT DSLAM a couple of months ago when I suffered multiple overhead line faults / disconnections). The problem is that it is almost impossible to get BT to alter the SNM after such a BT induced fault. At least, Plusnet showed no inclination to attempt it!

Via the CLI commands I was able to get the router to negotiate an SNM of about 9db which then gave me a solid 8128 / 448 everytime. Before I was hitting between 5000 - 6500 ish mark.

The other advantage of the Voyager is that it does not suffer from the hugh downward drops in SNM which the Netgear tends to have, and then to frequently fail to regain the previous level. This seems to be a firmware bug in all the available versions. The Voyager's SNM never seems to drop below 8db, whereas the Netgear at night used to hit the floor!

There is a lot to read about all this area at the various forums which are linked below the respective router downloads:

http://dmt.mhilfe.de/

Much is in German but there is some English and Bablefish comes in handy! And the DMT tool allow very good monitoring of the SNM and other factors as well.

That was a very long way of saying that Yes, I do get a higher speed with the Voyager!

RJM · Dec 06, 2006, 11:36:08

Would the Voyager 210 be the "non-wireless" model?

Robin

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 11:39:35

No - the BT Voyager 2110 is wireless.

http://www.shop.bt.com/invt/car113

It is easily available off eBay for about £30 or less. My only minor quibble is that there is no logging facility - that used to be useful on the Netgear but mainly because it logged the disconnections nicely. As I have so far suffered no disconnections with the Voyager, it is not that much of a loss!

RJM · Dec 06, 2006, 11:43:14

I would prefer "non-wireless" as it is only for me.

Which Voyager would you recommend?

Robin

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 11:52:30

I really don't know much about the rest of the BT range. The great point for me was that the 2110 has the correct chip / firmware which allows the "negotiation" of the SNM. There are other routers of course which allow this also - see the various DMT forums. As you can see, there are some routers which can have their SNM "tweaked" by a simple "sliding control" on the relevant DMT Tool, rather than using CLI commands. I think the Speedtouch 585 is such a model but I have yet to play with it in earnest.

There is however a simple "tick" to remove in the 2110 setup which will disable the wireless mode if that is your preference. It has x 4 Ethernet connections for simple wired mode.

I am no great advocate of things BT (probably quite the opposite!) however this model was very reasonably priced and it seems to do the required job very nicely.

RJM · Dec 06, 2006, 11:57:07

Thanks for that.

As you can tell, I have no clue!!!

Robin

Nerval · Dec 06, 2006, 11:59:07

I know it wasn't for me, but thanks Meerkat for the info on the voyager.
At that price, it must be worth a try - my Netgear SNR does exactly what you said in the evening, so I'll have a shot with one.

(With the OP's dual connection device, I just wondered if the ethernet connection bit used one of the less sensitive chipsets and he may get a faster connection with another one.)

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 12:11:15

Nerval - Fully understand re the dual connection issue. I do wonder whether Dorsetboy has tried the two connections at different times of the day / night. When I was still on the high SNM with the Netgear I usually gained around an extra 1000 or so when I reconnected in the morning, rather than after dark. The magic of Max DSL!

I now leave the 2110 connected at all times and as I am deep in the country, I use a cheapo UPS to counter the relatively frequent power drops / cuts.

Re the 2110, it certainly works for me, but of course there are other routers which seem to get a similar seal of approval on the DMT forums - the Speedtouch 585 being one of them - and at a similar price. I do suggest an intensive forum read before you choose though - and let me know how it goes!

Nerval · Dec 06, 2006, 12:14:49

Yes, will do. Much obliged to you.
I seem to collect routers like Rod Stewart collect blonde wives

DorsetBoy · Dec 06, 2006, 17:26:18

Whoa......lots of replies and info!!

Right,did I mislead you somehow?I only have one connection...........

Have resited my machines today and checked all connections etc as they were remade.
Have done the quiet line test and that is fine.
There are only 2 BT connection boxes in the house and they are off a box in the hall(this has a test socket under the faceplate).
No DECT or wireless products,no Xmas tree lights/Sky or anything else to interfere,the line sockets are never touched/disconnected,

I have been turning off the router but that can be left on in future.

I had been running a Thompson Speedtouch 510 4 port ethernet router till last week.This has run perfectly for 3 years without any attention but recently I found the DSL would not work without several power on/offs so have replaced it with the new version........Model 546V .

Router stats and latest BT line test results..................

DSL Connection

   Link Information

Uptime:   0 days, 0:20:17
Modulation:   G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:   448 / 7,648
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/KB]:   0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:   12.0 / 19.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:   13.5 / 24.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:   23.0 / 12.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote):   TMMB / TSTC
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):   10 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):   2 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):   0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):   0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):   5 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 319
CRC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 2
HEC Errors (Up/Down):   0 / 2

Results BT Speedtester 16.54 06/12/2006

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 7648 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4937 kbps

The BT speed test seems optimistic for this time of day and 4 other sites gave a maximum speed of 3100kbps.

I will set the router up to be permanently on and see what happens over the next week.

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 17:53:33

Hello Dorsetboy....

Sorry about all the various bits of info which hardly related to your issue!

Your att and SN Margin figures do look very reasonable. You are so close to the max of 8128 (IP Profile of 7150) though! I wonder when you synced your router at 7648? Was it in the "quieter" time in the morning, or when the line noise tends to increase in the evening?

If you manage to sync at 8128, leave it as it is and see whether you can hold that without disconnections. If so, your Stable Rate / profile will increase automatically (within 3 days). But beware rebooting too often or else the DSLAM at the exchange may detect it as a fault condition and keep knocking your rate down (almost immediately) and you then have to wait the 3 days if you sync higher later, to have the speed improved.

Having said all of which, the practical noticeable difference in speed between 7648 (IP Profile of 5500), against 8128 (Profile of 7150) is fairly minimal to say the least - but everyone (myself especially!) likes to squeeze the last byte out!

So far as Speed tests go, the BT test is possibly the most reliable as it shows what the actual potential is through the BT network. Other tests - I like the BBMax site

http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/

will give indications but there are so many variables in the route taken, contention etc etc. Have you checked whether your local exchange has any problems? :

http://usertools.plus.net/exchanges/

Apart from that - best of luck!

Meerkat · Dec 06, 2006, 17:59:35

Just a quick addition to the above. The link below is always a useful reference when thinking IP Profiles and Stable rates etc etc! This shows that with your current sync of 7648, you can expect your IP Profile to increase to 6500.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/maxdsl2.htm

Nerval · Dec 06, 2006, 18:02:07

Apologies Dorsetboy - my fault for interrupting your thread.

I'm going for a new router though, as this devil has just dropped out!!

DorsetBoy · Dec 06, 2006, 18:05:27

The router was turmed back on at@16.30 today after moving my rigs downstairs.

That is the highest value I have seen since Max came on line.

The line profile has been up to 7500k then down to 3000k again later in the day.

Will have to see what happens over the next few days with the router on 24/7.

Thanks for your time,and the other info in this thread is just as welcome........

DorsetBoy · Dec 06, 2006, 18:10:05

Quote from: Nerval on Dec 06, 2006, 18:02:07
Apologies Dorsetboy - my fault for interrupting your thread.
I'm going for a new router though, as this devil has just dropped out!!

The thread was not really interrupted,it was all relevant and useful

Take a look at these........... http://www.speedtouch.co.uk/

The Thompson Routers are very good,my old 510 did 3 years non stop with no reboot or new firmware.

The new one arrived in 2 days and was very easy to set up.

jupiter · Dec 06, 2006, 23:19:27

I used a Netgear DG834 for many months and experienced the peculiarities of fading levels of SNR the longer the router was on.
Switched to a Speedtouch 546v6 and the SNR has been stable and healthy ever since - none of the fluctuations reported by the Netgear and holds on to sync on a long line very well.

Inactive · Dec 06, 2006, 23:42:06

I use a BT Voyager 2100, the earlier model of the 2110, it has been as solid as a rock for nearly 2 years now, the only failure was the 2 included BT Microfilters that I have now binned and replaced with Solwise cheapo's.