Slow Speeds since I got the 8meg Max service

[Sebby]

What IDNet have said is true, but not to this extent I don't believe. Let them know again, and perhaps this time they'll raise it with BT to see if there's anything going on at the exchange that could be causing this.

[Rik]

I would say "have you checked your exchange for congestion" but most of the checkers are usually out of date because BT isn't that keen on providing the data. Do you know what sort of error count you have?

[hairyman]

 

Hi Rik
My exchange has shown red on the plusnet checker, fault is some missing virtual paths " within BT spec but below ideal" it has been at this level for some months. My slow speeds go back to the intorduction of 8meg Max here, about 30months ago I think.

Sebby I will ask IDnet to check with BT again about my exchange and report back.

I have 93 errors secs and 38 CRC Errors in about 4 days with two losses of signals on the downstream side. Upstream I have 9 errored seconds and " CRC and " signal losses. SNR Margin Down is 14.8db with Line attn 38.4db data rate is 5662kbps  . SNR upstream is 25db Line attn is 25db and Data rate 448Kbps.

Voice line is Ok at the moment but as we have not used it much recently we only have a small sample.

The exchange has BT only until early this year when Orange came along TalkTalk are scheduled to add on next month but it keeps getting pushed back. I wouldnt go LLU as you hear horror stories of phone number changes and barriers to migrating back along with costs etc.

I hope the two new LLU operators may draw off the strain on BT? But on my attempts to find out from others local to me about speeds on the exchange I guess not to many people use the net around here ( maybe I know only older or poorer people? or perhaps they have a life?) .

Two neighbours who had broadband reported actual downloads around 5mbps both were similar distances to the exchange to me , both were on IPstream ie the net via BT system. Both were non geeks so really said they just found it worked OK most of the time and didnt normally do speedchecks. So they seemed to get better than 5 times my rate on a one off test , I have never seen 5meg , got 3.5meg just once I remember. My line has high loss for the 400mtrs but few errors .

I have tried two Pcs with different OSs and a laptop on XP all give about the same speeds. Both router modems give similar performance.

I am puzzled bit but assume BT must be slowing me down via their daft profiling system that seems to ramp up and down.

LLU suppliers dont use profiling I read , how do they need it and BT do?

Any advice is welcomed ,  I will speak to IDnet but am at a loss as to the next step as Eclipse ran into the same problem and found no "cure" over the previous 20months. I have been with Idnet since Nov 07. I only want a speedy 3Gb a month is that too much to ask?

I have used TCPoptimiser and TCPdoc to check my settings and they seem about right.

[Sebby]

Your error count certainly not causing any problems. With a downstream attenuation of 38dB, I would have thought full sync (8,128k) should be achieved. With a downstream SNRM of ~15dB, it looks like there has probably been some instability in the past, which has caused the target SNRM to be pushed up in an attempt to stabilise the line. This is what's stopping you getting full sync.

That said, I'm not convinced that this has any relation to the throughput problem. Whilst there's no real reason why your line should have been unstable (other than BT's ageing network, of course), it looks fairly stable at the moment, and so I'd have thought that the profile will be correct. That said, we still don't know for definite, so if you could run a BT speed test (perseverance may be required!), that may help (especially if it showed that the profile was wrong - then it would all make sense and we could take it from there). If you can't get it to work, IDNet should be able to tell you your profile.

The profile system is indeed a pain, and it's only in place to take the load of BT's systems (go figure!).

[Rik]

What Sebby said, Hairy.

[hairyman]

Hi Sebby

So what we have is IDnet saying their system is not shaped or throttled but given the fact that BTs shaping and throttling via the means of their software Idnet also have a "load taken" of their end of the network as a default setting.

During my last call to Idnet last week they said that BT had fixed my SNR margin to 12db to stabilise the line the syncs should be at around 6meg and profile at 5meg, I have only had a few disconnections since then but the actual throughputs stay at sub 1meg. My  previous profile had been dropped to  as low as 150kbps due to Disconnections/line noise .


Would regrading "up to a 2meg" service get around this traffic management by BT. When I was on this I got syncs at 2272kbps and got nearly 2000kbps throughputs. Recently Idnet tried to clear my profile by putting me onto 2meg for a few days ( from MAX ) then put me back onto 8meg. The 2meg service just for a few days seemed to give well under the old 2meg rate . This I guess was due to increased use of the net by all then. Now I get little better than the old 512k service I had nearly 6years ago.

It cost £24 a month way back then with a  £150  connection feee with hardware. Now it costs £18 with no transfer fee, just shows you get what you pay for in life. The trouble is there is no point in using a Rolls Royce ( Idnet) with a donkey ( BT) under the bonnet.

I will call Idnet , would have called today but we had multiple breakdowns at my place of work after the long weekend so I was busy fixing them ( those reporting the faults had a rest it seems).

Thanks for the help. Will try a BT speedtest and report back but usually they fail on timeout or authentication. Another ploy? Cynic or what !!!

[hairyman]

Amazing I got through to BT speedtest second go!!!!!!!!!!!

Results were DSL con rate 5728kbps upstream 

                                     448kbps downstream   

IP profile 4500kbps   

Actual TP   1129kbps   


The actual TP seems on the high side of most of my tests elsewhere ( see speedtest.net results on previous posts). Thinkbroadband shows my throughput graph at 1meg and heading down.

Looks like exchange or network congestion / BT shaping results in a 25% rate compared to profile.

[Dopamine]

I don't think you should blame everything on BT or exchange congestion. My line, now the Olympics - IDNet's chosen reason for poor speeds - has finished, has not recovered particularly well.

The graph below shows a period of around five minutes taken just before this post, measured by Netmeter. The first block of red is a large download test file from Thinkbroadband - http://www.thinkbroadband.com/download.html

The centre block of red is a BT speed-test, which showed a throughput of 6mbps for a 7150 profile.

The third block of red is another large download from Thinkbroadband.

The graph has its scale set to a maximum of 4mbps, so you'll see that for a large proportion of the time, I'm getting nowhere near even 4mbps from Thinkbroadband/IDNet (not sure which).

If, as I think, BT speed-tests bypass the ISP, then this graph shows that either Thinkbroadband has big problems, or IDNet is struggling with capacity. I know what I think, but anyone else is free to draw their own conclusions.

[Sebby]

Amazing I got through to BT speedtest second go!!!!!!!!!!!

Results were DSL con rate 5728kbps upstream 

                                     448kbps downstream   

IP profile 4500kbps   

Actual TP   1129kbps   


The actual TP seems on the high side of most of my tests elsewhere ( see speedtest.net results on previous posts). Thinkbroadband shows my throughput graph at 1meg and heading down.

Looks like exchange or network congestion / BT shaping results in a 25% rate compared to profile.

Right, I think you need to pass this one on to IDNet now. The profile is wrong by 500k, which suggests that there's still instability, but nonetheless you should be getting a much higher throughput.

I would try and get IDNet to raise this with BT before thinking about moving to a fixed-rate product.

[hairyman]

Hi Dopamine

Yes as a long standing customer of ISP Eclipse I have fine tuned my bullsh*t detection apparatus.

Two near neighbours get 5meg throughputs most of the time both on BT based ISP neither ISP is highly rated. Just spoke tonight with a friends son who uses the net on our exchange they get 3meg min throughputs on 6meg syncs even with nearly 3.5km line length to my less than 1km on Tiscali ( do they use Orange LLUs?).

I get 1meg , often 600kbps , occasionally a burst to 3meg. I am on ISP IDnet.

We are all on the same exchange.

Ergo I think the bottleneck is obvious.

I have used two modem routers and three Pcs here giving similar results.

I will contact IDnet for news and see if they would like to supply a MAC for use next month. Also I will ask about the possibility of a 2meg service as a trial option over a longer period. 

My line isnt brilliant but I can do nothing about that, other than going mobile data. It is rumoured that 02 are coming to an exchange within 400mtrs that would tie in with my mobile phone use as well. They give over 1 MegByte/sec downloads on the neighbouring exchange.

I get a similar Netmeter pattern on all downloads , I must admit I was so suprised in getting the BT speedtester tonight I didnt look at the Netmeter graph!! Its usually all spiky just like my favourite mountains! 

[Sebby]

I will contact IDnet for news and see if they would like to supply a MAC for use next month. Also I will ask about the possibility of a 2meg service as a trial option over a longer period. 

A MAC is valid for 30 days.

Moving to a fixed 2Mb service will involve a regrade. Usually there is a charge (BT will charge IDNet), but IDNet may waive it.

[hairyman]

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 5664 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 481 kbps

Hi All
I have just come back from a weeks holiday - very relaxing - must do it more often.

To celebrate I managed to get a speedtest out of BT . Results shown above . Throughput worse than ever at 481kbps !!!!

I will ask IDnet to look at it again on Monday. Surely a throughput of around 10% of the Profile is wrong?

[confidential information removed]

SNR margins still are 16db on the downstream link and interleaved. Others locally get at worst 3meg plus on BT .

I therefore assume IDnet are hopelessly contended, as the throughputs I get now are far worse than with Eclipse a year ago, and they were bad but at least they were cheapish.             

[Rik]

That throughput is way too low, I would suggest you try and get another couple of tests run and let support have them all. The fact that your NM is 16db suggests the line has been flapping, though. Has this been investigated?

[Sebby]

Something's seriously wrong there. Get onto IDNet again.

[hairyman]

Hi Rik

The disconnects have temporarily gone away , nothing has been firmly found. Its nothing at my end thats all I can say. My line attn is high at 38db for 400mtrs line of site ( less than 1km by wire) to the exchange. I suspect there are either poor joints, high crosstalk with other bb lines and or some section thatare not twisted pairs. The drop outs barely loose me any data as they are for seconds but they drop my profile last time it was reported stuck at 150kbps. They dont seem to loose me throughput except thro the weird BT traffic shaping profile software.

The disconnects have been there since 8meg Max , I had none with 2meg or 512kbps ( with Eclipse ) they only came along with Max and the increased popularity of bb at the same time.

As the dropouts have been there for 31 months they are persistant but intermittant. The pattern is they become worse during drier spells ( so OK in August and now) the underground ducts are well wet when I peaked down the open cover in our High Street last month. I guess the poor joints and or crosstalk improve when damp.

Anyway the profile now is currently at 4500kbps and I get sub 1000 throughputs with no recent dropouts.
Others locally sync at lower speeds but get 3meg plus throughputs ( Tiscali and BT) so its not likely to be my exchange. Ergo the remaining link may be Idnet or the other BT gear they hire to provide the service.

I have tried most tests here, many modems, new leads, turning off other electrical stuff in the house, I have three other PCs/laptops available to trywhich give the same results. I have only a mastersocket with a ADSLnation filtered faceplate. Using a simplephone makes no difference.

The throughputs remain lower than I had with Eclipse Internet , I moved to Idnet with the hope of getting back to the days of 2meg broadband which gave 1800kbps all the time. The use of the internet is now much increased so we all seem to be getting a smaller narrower bit of it to use?


Sebby - just seen your post - I will contact IDnet on Monday and email today. They will as ever be helpful but mention the likelihood of the £169 charge.

[Sebby]

Sebby - just seen your post - I will contact IDnet on Monday and email today. They will as ever be helpful but mention the likelihood of the £169 charge.

I don't believe this is actually a line issue, so I think having an engineer out would be pointless anyway.

[Rik]

Have IDNet ever suggested moving you to a fixed 2Mbps service, Hairy. It might be worth a try to see if that will overcome the issue, it has been known to in the past.

[hairyman]

Hi Rik

They have not suggested it but what they did do earlier this year is to put me onto 2meg for a few days as a way to clear my profile then they put me back to Max. I only had the 2meg for one evening ( I think) but the actual throughput seemed about the same?

[Rik]

Damn, there goes another bright idea.

[hairyman]

 Hi All
Got another speedtest out of BT at only third attempt!!

At least we now are better than the old 512kbps bb days the last speedtest was lower!

Sorry to fill up this post but it keeps you all in the picture and saves me recording the results elsewhere.

I will contact IDnet and see where we go from here. Also will do another few BT speedtests.



Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 5664 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 4500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 799 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

[Steve]

You have my sympathies, see if you can get one early morning, at that time BT and/or Idnet congestion shouldn't be issue,if that's poor surely there has to be something wrong.

[Rik]

I can't believe it's congestion at this time of day at the weekend, does your router log errors, Hairy? I just have an instinct that line quality is part of the problem, and if the error count is high, it would slow throughput.

[Sebby]

Me neither, Rik. It could be line quality, but it's a difficult one to say for sure. I wonder if it's an exchange problem?

[Rik]

Exchange or an extremely bad cable. My sense is that several different issues are working together against Hairy.

[hairyman]

Found the following log files on my router ( Zoom X5V hardwired modem router 4 ethernet ports plus one usb) I also have a Creative router I get similar results from both. I have also tried Speedtouch routers and simple usb modems. I never seem to get many errors only the disconnects on an weather dependant cycle. All the lines are underground. I think the line length is around 800mtrs when I have followed the green boxes and inspection hatches. Uptime for this log is about 24hrs.

Question where can I find the best info on the local exchange ( Stonehouse in Gloucestershire)  state other than going to it when the openreach Transit is there as they use it as a depot. It is a large building about 60ft by 60ft. I live in a small town with a lot of outlying villlages on the same exchange ( about 6000 lines I think) . I have used the plusnet information pages to see the exchange status.


Tx Bytes 22084517
Rx Bytes 192196550
Tx Cells 416689
Rx Cells 3626350
Rx HEC Errors 0
Tx Mgmt Cells 1
Rx Mgmt Cells 0
Tx CLP0 Cells 416689
Rx CLP0 Cells 3626350
Tx CLP1 Cells 0
Rx CLP1 Cells 0
Rx Errors 0
Tx Errors 0
Rx Misrouted Cells 0