Slow Speeds since I got the 8meg Max service

hairyman · Jul 08, 2009, 19:38:23

Hi All

I will decide what to do after the weekend. They did say that they would charge even if no fault was found ie no gain and lost cash!!

I will check the external wiring to see if they could "find a fault there" but its only 10 inches from the grey box to the point the cable goes underground and the cable from the outside grey box goes straight throu the wall about the same distance to the one and only mastersocket which is a ADSLnation splitter faceplate type. I have no other telephone wiring. The PC just above this as is the router.

One difficulty is that I would need to take a day off work to do the PR bit with an engineer ( I suspect my wife would give him an ear bending as the connection problems are worse for her as they mostly occur during the day , she is retired).

I have had to ring off when reporting faults as I cannot hear the operator but they still do nothing!! Often I ring home and I get noise on the line and what you describe as missing syllables a redial usually cures this or we revert to mobi to mobi.

Plus point is O2 hope to activate LLU at the exchange as new fibre has been installed to the exchange via the local main power sub station ( LLus dont use the profiling system that BT use I am told) and also O2 have installed a new mast very nearby currently not 3G but maybe they are awaiting the above fibre as well?

Ref Cable broadband the nearest is many miles away in Gloucester ( Virgin) there is none elsewhere until Bristol ( 25miles away). We have 7000lines on the exchange I think with other neighbouring exchanges having multiple LLU ( we have only Orange and CPW and BT)

Thanks again Simon, Rik, Lance, rireed3, Dopamine and Sebby.

Meanwhile BT phone charges have become ridiculous for the small amount I use it I have decided to try IDnets phone side when the BT contract runs out.

Hairyman

Sebby · Jul 08, 2009, 23:15:08

O2 LLU is good, but be aware that your issue, which is probably a line issue, will remain even if you move away from a BT product.

Rik · Jul 09, 2009, 08:40:15

Hi Chris

Would mobile broadband be an option for you? As Seb says, the last mile remains the same, even if you go LLU, so unless BT do something about the cable, you are going nowhere fast.

(Might be worth an email to BT's CEO...)

hairyman · Jul 12, 2009, 22:07:43

Hi Rik and Sebby

I will check 3g coverage again last time I looked we were in a low speed spot on all networks.

Recently the O2 signal on voice has gone up from two bars on the readout to six bars and I see they have installed a new mast less than 1km away and line of sight ( ish) not sure if it has data on it I will have to check.

Question --- reference --- LLu and BT , someone told me that LLus don't Ipprofile so my speeds wouldn't "bounce" up and down so much despite the dropouts/disconnects ?? True??

Another Question--- would dropping to a fixed 2meg service be possible with Idnet and is this profiled by BT as well ? When I was on 2meg prior to MAX I didn't really get any problems but I imagine the line has probably got worse since then rather than better!!

The way I see it the profilling is the thing cutting my speed for 99.5% of the time not the disconnect periods.

I will have another try to ask BT for a solution as I would prefer to stick with a landline and Idnet. I dont really want to move as I plan to be here for the rest of my allotted span. Maybe we will get cable ( some hope and probably too expensive and loads of ugly ripped up tarmac every where to install it)

Just got back from some mountain walking in Glencoe , weather fantastic a bit to hot and sunny for me but better than rain and high winds we often get up there!!

Hairyman

Lance · Jul 12, 2009, 23:12:58

Hi hairy. It is correct that it is only BT who use a profiling system. On llu, the only limit is your sync speed!

As for reverting back to fixed speed, I'm not sure if BT still offer this to new customers (ie unless you already have it). If it doesn't say on their site, easiest thong would be to check with support.

Sebby · Jul 12, 2009, 23:52:32

That is correct, Hairy. It's only BT who insist on using the pointless system that is IP profiles.

Rik · Jul 13, 2009, 09:54:25

Fixed speed products are still available, Hairy, but they are more expensive than Max.

Sebby · Jul 13, 2009, 19:22:58

Another good move by BT - force everyone onto rate-adaptive services, which turn out to be less stable, and ignore the fact that their infrastructure is falling to pieces.

hairyman · Jul 13, 2009, 19:56:12

Hi Lance
Thanks for confirming that LLus don't profile , so i guess that the sync speed on my line will rise and fall as the line condition varies as it does now ( currently after a dropout/disconnect the sync can be say 2000k ish and a manual router reboot brings it up to 6500K , but sometimes the disconnect can be multiple and the sync remains at 6500K it must depend on the line condition when a reconnect is tried ) meanwhile I guess the IPpointless profile drops the tput. I assume LLu with no profiling will just reconnect at max speed at say 6db SNR and give best possible tput depending on their internal traffic management policy?

Rik ---- ref 2meg product I remember Idnet and before them Eclipse Internet put me back onto a 2meg fixed to clear profiles and check what was going on etc , I imagine this costs someone each time and I have seem 512/2meg products costing more than Max ( !!!???).

Sebby ---- Maybe "Less for more" should be a BT motto?

I have asked some of my neighbours and most say they get below 2meg tput at best so It looks like our exchange and cabling are poor. I have noticed more trenching and corrugated ducts being installed in the High Street with temp traffic lights so maybe something is coming!! ( Torchwoods 456?)

Thanks all

Hairyman

Tonights BT speed test show it recovered since last weeks test..( also below
Tonight test
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6336 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3779 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

Last weeks test
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6176 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 1000 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 904 kbps

Sebby · Jul 13, 2009, 20:07:53

I'm excited about FTTC myself. I think that's going to really help this dire situation.

hairyman · Jul 13, 2009, 20:18:24

It might be FTTC but we are not on the published list I would guess FTTC here will come around the 12th of never.

The trench seemed to cross a couple of major roads and head from the main Power company transforming switching substation ( a big place about two acres in size) currently its stopped outside the local big private boarding school but the BT exchange is very near here as well . Maybe the school needs fibre direct , they certainly have unlimited money as they can charge up £10k a term. I will pop down and have a look, the duct was too small for anything other than data.

Hairyman

Sebby · Jul 13, 2009, 20:20:24

Are you aware of the second FTTC exchange announcement?

hairyman · Jul 14, 2009, 20:44:12

Hi Sebby

Yes I did quickly scan the new FttC list but couldn't see any where even near here.

I have had only 2 disconnects in 24 hours , since my last BT speedtest. I noticed the sync back down at 2016kbps with downsteam SNR of 30db and line attn of 38db along with the three disconnects. I did a slow reboot leaving the router off for quite a while .

It reconnected at 6300kbps syncs and the SNR back at 14 to 17db but actual throughputs were the same at 1500kbps using thinkbroadband. Bt test done as below. Back to the usual? I am suprised that two drops in 24rs caused the IP to go down from 5500k yesterday to 1750kbps today . As usual very annoying as I only live 400mtrs from the exchange!

Reading the recent posts it looks like the net is in semi meltdown. Perhaps we are due a major outage like the four day one we had over the Whitsun weekend back in May when I lost the PPP link due to BT messing around in Kingston I think.

Hairyman
BT test done a few minutes b4 this post
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6240 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 1750 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1541 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester.

Rik · Jul 15, 2009, 09:43:55

One drop can cause your profile to fall, Hairy.

hairyman · Jul 15, 2009, 19:33:01

Hi Rik

Just completed a BT speedtest as below my IPprofile is back to 5500k , yesterday it was 1750k the day before that it was at5500k surely BTs system shouldn't allow "bounces" like this , what would be the point of this over this period. I had two dropouts between Monday and Tuesday evenings and none since , today is Wednesday. Seems like the profiling system is purely a way of annoying customers who are already suffering with defective BT lines and exchanges.

How is the Id network today I see the status on the website is still sub optimum.

Regards

Hairyman

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6304 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4353 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester

Rik · Jul 16, 2009, 10:14:54

The BT system does allow bounces of this nature. Small changes in speed will take up to 5 days to be reflected in the profile (it drops immediately, but takes hours or days to recover).

The sub-optimal announcement refers to the imbalance following the central failure on Tuesday. It's settling down as people move, or are moved, back to the original central.

hairyman · Jul 23, 2009, 22:03:33

Hi Rik

Been busy the last few days so hardly turned on this PC. The few tests I have done show the BTspeedtest bouncing up and down.

Currently the Ipprofile is as below but it has been down at 1750kbps and back up to 5500kbps. Only one disconnect shown here in 8 days though. The BT profiling method seems to randomly ramp up and down the speed , strange system. Why does it exist , to me it seems like some engineers nightmare put into action! I assume it is designed to reduce the network speed to a level that the BT infrastructure can cope with a minimum resending of data due to failed packets.

I am transfering my phone service to Idnet as the cost with BT have risen massively in the last two years also Idnets service is approx 1000% better than BT India.

Do we know the technical reason why BT use profiling and the LLus don't. Or even just why BT use it at all?

Hairyman

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 6816 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 5500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4558 kbps

Lance · Jul 23, 2009, 22:41:22

Hi hairy.

The profile will only change down due to a resync, so if yours has been bouncing then you must have had more than 1 disconnect in 8 days.

As for why BT use profiles, my guess is to reduce required capacity. If you think about it, suppose on average the profile knocks 400k of the sync, and 100,000 users were on the same backhaul/node, that would be 400,000,000k saved (400gb if my maths is right!). I have obviously assumed 1000k is 1mb rather than 1024k. Either way, that would be a lot of money saved on reduced infrastructure.

rireed3 · Jul 23, 2009, 22:56:20

But if you have a couple of 'accidents' like a thunderstorm or a stuttering power cut, why must they punish you for days?

Also, why on earth do they have to see two weeks of steady connection to reduce a raised target noise margin?

I've tried to speculate about traffic flow, as in congested motorways that stop and start, but I haven't really heard an explanation.

I suspect it's just theft

Richard

hairyman · Jul 23, 2009, 23:11:02

Hi

Yes as its BT I guess theft is the likely reason. We have to pay the eight figure salary of the CEO somehow as well.

Bring back the good old GPO , they may have moved slowly but at least we got a good integrated system of communications.

Cant quite see how dropping the Profile saves data transfer as the overall download say just takes longer at a lower speed the data transfered remains the same. All it does is prevent the network potentially saturating with resent data due to duff data packets caused by lost bits?

Hairyman

Lance · Jul 24, 2009, 06:42:38

The reason it takes up to 5 days and 14 days respectively is so that the load is off BTs infrstructure for longer.

You're right hairy about the amount of data being the same, but it is in terms of concurrent connections it affects.

A reduced profile doesn't effect errors on a line and therefore the number of retransmits would be the same with a low, high or no profile.

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 09:52:11

Lance is right, if BT can reduce the throughput on their backhaul, it saves them money, so they do. The wait to restore the profile also saves them a bit in computing power on the DLM side. It's purely about BT profits.

bobleslie · Jul 24, 2009, 10:51:14

Quote from: Rik on Jul 24, 2009, 09:52:11
It's purely about BT profits.

What profits?

Rik · Jul 24, 2009, 10:56:18

hairyman · Jul 24, 2009, 20:33:29

Profits go towards , sacking BT staff, Ian Livingthings salary and preferential shares, and winding up BT pension schemes etc.

Great share price!!!

Ref profiling I assume dropping the profile in response to line noise, enables BT to reduce the wasted resent data that would occur without profiling.

How does the system work on LLus , they must just set sync rates in response to line SNRs then just give best effort?

The BT system is mad I have had eight dropouts in the last 24hrs but the Profile remains at 5500K and the sync has gone up to 6900 from 6400 with the SNR down from 17db to 14db to match. Previously one drop in three days dropped the Profile from 5500 to 1750

Maybe some kind engineer is intervening?

Maybe IPprofiling is just bad and unnecessary moo poo?

Hairyman