Slow Speeds since I got the 8meg Max service

[Rik]

I believe the nominal phone voltage is 50V and the ringing voltage is 85V, Hairy. I've never seen a figure for 'in use'. What you're describing would suggest a faulty filter or something like an HR joint. Internal cables are always copper, aluminium was only ever used for the major runs.

[Glenn]

50v DC is correct, not sure what it drops to when the call is answered though.

[Rik]

That seems to be the one voltage not mentioned anywhere.

[hairyman]

Thanks Rik and Glen

I think the exchange puts the line voltage down from 50 volts to make the line "ring" ?

The cable into my outside box is just two pairs of copper wire into one steel wired armoured cable which I guess goes over the road tt the BT manhole? Probably the same for the other fifty or so houses up this end of the raod(s).

I will try to measure the voltage when the line is quiet and the router is not affected by the voice phone being on/off the hook. This would be the "normal" situation anyway.

Probably a high res joint somewhere as I have tried three or four filters,two routers and two phones.

Hairyman

[Rik]

No, it puts it up from 50 to create the ring. It might be worthwhile checking the voltage when the router is disconnected, Hairy.

[hairyman]

Hi Rik
Thanks again have a karma.

Just checked the voltage with a quiet line and with the router now unaffected by the voice line going on/off the hook.

Voltages about the same at 49.98volts on hook and 16.46volts off hook. So no change there.

Removing the router made no change to either of the above.

I will try the voltage test with no router and two phones loading the line.

What I did find was the white incoming wire much lower resistance to ground than the other ( I am wired to the white and orange pair , with green and black as spares , the later appear to be connected to ground on the BT system , they may be the faulty ones found ago when I had a line outage , pre internet).

Sod this I am doing BTs work for them lazy B*stards. Greedy ones anyway.

Think I will go back to being an electronic instrument and calibration engineer tommorrow and get paid for it !!!!!!

Hairyman

PS

Ipprofile still bouncing from 1meg to 5meg currently it is in the middle --- see below BT speedtest----


Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
   Your DSL connection rate: 6336 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
   IP profile for your line is - 2500 kbps
   Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2325 kbps

If you wish to discuss these results please contact your ISP.

If you are experiencing problems with specific applications, servers or websites please contact your ISP for assistance.

Your test has completed please close this window to exit the performance tester

[Rik]

At least you've eliminated the router there, Hairy. I don't know what BT practice is with spare pairs, but grounding them would make sense in terms of RFI.

[davej99]

Standing phone line voltage is around -50v DC, B wire to A wire. Ringing is done with about the same peak AC voltage added to that. Off hook will show much less, depending on exchange and line resistance, and might be as low as 8v. The DC resistance of a typical phone is 200-300 ohm and the current flowing is 20-50 mA. On hook very little current is drawn, just a few mA.

I would not like to predict what exact measurements might be, except to say that a very low or unstable off hook voltage could well suggest a dry joint. This might well burn through on ringing because up to 100v peak is presented.

NOTE: the total voltage on a phone line can be 100v peak during ringing, so be careful if you are fiddling.

[Rik]

Thanks, Dave.

[davej99]

Thx, Rik. Next time the No bell prize?

[Simon]

We could certainly do with some peace round here. 

[Rik]

A to you both.

[Ray]

And another  each. 

[hairyman]

Thanks all!!

No disconnects in 24hrs mind you no one has called us on the phone.

On the subject of the Id net phone system, my lady loves the new way the line just goes dead when a caller rings off after leaving an answerphone message. For years we have suffered with the boring BT ladies recorded message repeated too many times saying "the other Person has cleared" ( or similar) which got recorded on our answerphone.

I have been a bit busy today and tonight we are back into the rainy season so no chance to do any tests or measurements. I will see how the line holds but it looks like I will whip of the facepate again and pop a simple phone in there, listen for noise again, and try a fresh filter plugged in right there.

Again Thanks to you all.

Hairyman

Here follows a message for BT                

[Simon]

Here follows  a message for BT                 

I think that's definitely a shared thought.

[bobleslie]

So succinct, as well! 

[hairyman]

Or possibly


A message from BT to those who have to use its monopoly  


Hairyman

[hairyman]

BT seem to have completely lost the plot both on broadband and voice .

Just transfered to Idnet phone service all OK with the transfer and Idnet initial billing all set up perfectly ( Idnet seem the only efficient commercial organisation I have met recently -- Thanks to ID folk!! ).

BT completely fouled up their final billing and it has taken five long phone calls to get through to the area manager to sort it out -- maybe ? I will believe it is correct when I see the refunds!

They are completely disingenuous on the phone and frankly tell a load of lies. They tried to charge me a month penalty for leaving their contract early ( it actually ran out at the end of  July and Idnet took over 1st August ).  I had a month earlier advised them I would not renew the 12mth deal. This request they probably ignored.  They also tried to charge me for a transfer into a weekend deal and then charge me for a load of calls that should have been on the anytime free calls I was on contract for.

BT customer facing staff all say they will do something but in reality either do nothing or,  do what pays BT the most cash even if you didnt want it  and didn't ask for the service. Eventually an honest  UK based call centre lady admitted the staff at her level couldn't deal with refunds and could only arrange to transfer me to a supervisor. The manager duly called back three days later and he seemed able to see what had happened and set up a refund .

My advice with BT is never to phone or use the internet portal for anything important but only communicate in  writing to them asking for action within a short time span. Their grasp on honesty seems well below any acceptable minimum level and efficiency likewise. All this is reflected in their share price no doubt directors bonuses will be good despite the companies performance.

We have similarly seen continuing bonuses in the banking sector despite the " financial terrorism" we saw them perform on us all last year and over previous years. They are still being rewarded and we have all seen our pensions dwindle/wages cut/ redundancy for many/ and income from savings destroyed by these "terrorists".

Rant over !!

Meanwhile the phone noises keep bouncing my internet speed ( Ip profile) from 1500k to 5500k day by day . Voice line is often noisy and using the phone often kills the internet and produces a disconnect. Then next minute all is quiet and no amount of picking up a voice line affects the broadband. So still intermittant.

I will call IDnet and ask them if they can get BT to get an engineer onto my voice line and or Fix my broadband at 2meg.

Regards

Hairyman

[Rik]

 

I'm beginning to loathe BT, Hairy. 

[Glenn]

Apart from moving to Hull, or getting a cable connection, then everyone will have some part of their line with BT

[Rik]

Hasn't BT bought out Kingston Communications?

[dujas]

Not quite, but KCom are struggling so it could just be the beginning of the BT borg assimilation

KCOM has scaled back its ambitions again and will concentrate on selling managed services to corporates after outsourcing its management of its network assets to BT.

The company formerly known as Kingston Communications pitched the deal as extending its "network reach through access to BT's national network", with BT's wholesale networking taking over the management of its network assets.

It said the deal would "reduce the ongoing fixed costs and capital expenditure associated with the management of its network infrastructure."

It will hang on to its fibre access network, saying this "coupled with access to BT's network scale and service capability, will position the KCOM Group very strongly in the provision of communications services to its target markets."

This focus on target markets is part of its "transformation", into two businesses, namely "the East Yorkshire activities and Eclipse Internet" and "the managed communications business serving the needs of the enterprise and public sector markets."

Source

[Rik]

Thanks, Dujas, I knew I'd read something about them being linked with BT, just couldn't remember quite what.

[hairyman]

Hi Rik and dujas

Yes Kingston seem to have handed over their infrastructure to BT. I think they were owned by the local council at some time?

My last ISP was Eclipse Internet down in Exeter, who were very good back in 2001 with dial up and later when 512k was enabled on my exchange I went with them it all worked great, they were an independent company and were one of the driving forces of Broadband for U. They helped campaign to get people to preregister their interest in BB with BT and when certain trigger points of interest occurred BT planned BB enablement at exchanges. They were very good and quick back then. I and they upgraded to 2meg when enabled and I got 1.9meg actual on downloads.  

Then Kingston took them over and all went to pot, the support staff all changed and speeds fell to 500k or less in the evenings. Eventually speeds fell to dial up levels at busy times. A move to 8meg max and some Eclipse/Kingston upgrades saw somewhat better speeds. But Kingston turned a good ISP into a pile of pooh fairly quickly and I know they were not liked as the monopoly supplier of all wired telecoms in Hull with high prices. They maintained the monopoly for a long time by I believe using non standard exchange systems, cabling and interconnects. So maybe a full monoploy with K may have been no better than BT. Certainly my experience with them was negative.

I moved to IDnet and speeds were better ( during times when my line is quiet) and the service in a different league.

BT need to become a customer facing  company, as I would guess that if a significant number of people ( 30% +?) move to alternative suppliers for voice services the regulators will look again at the Openreach / BT relationship they put in place.

Hairyman

[Rik]

I hope Ofcom do re-examine the Openreach setup, Hairy. It seems to have done nothing for the customer, be it ISP or end-user.