Slow Speeds since I got the 8meg Max service

[hairyman]

Yes Rik

I see the Openreach setup as on dodgy ground ref monopoly level as they have a close relationship with BT ( one and the same really) and are much bigger than the 25 to 30 % of the market that normally attracts attention from the authorities.

Does the Monopolies and Mergers Commission still exist , its probably called something else or dissappeared in some old boys club deal . I would have thought some arrangement like the electric and gas supply system being the way to go with the backbone system being deal like British Rail track and station service is now run as a not for profit quango. Bt are currently, basically bust if you consider their pension fund debts someone would would have put in a fortune to bail then out only their special status monoploy keeps them credit worthy. ( Just like the banks ?!)

Hairyman

[Rik]

Openreach should either be a real, separate, organisation, or be scrapped. All it's introduction has done is put up costs for end users.

[hairyman]

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 6272 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 1250 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 1152 kbps


Hi

Usual rubbish speed shown on the BT test above , well below the likely 2meg USO the Digital Britain big business support report mentioned?

My current downstream SNR is 18db at the 6272K sync above all this and only 400metres from the exchange?

Was the Openreach / BT arrangement put in place because of a European investigation or was it a UK requirement?? It was forced on BT by regulation.

Hairyman

[Rik]

Ofcom forced it on BT, Hairy.

[hairyman]

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 6208 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 5000 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4117 kbps

The usual bounce of IP sitting at 5meg today, probably back at 1meg tommorrow?

I have just read the forum problems it looks like 21CN is a disaster for BT, but I guess when they sort it out it will save them money.

Reference Openreach yes it does seem like a cobbled up quango devised object that it is.

A similar thing has caused the "death by a thousand" cuts for the Post Office and Royal Mail, with Euro regs forcing   post over £1 ( and now 50p) delivery cost to be open to all. Hence UKmail and DHL etc creaming off the easy local inter and inta city mail. Royal mail then get a fee for doing the local hand delivery of the above ( very similar to the local loop , BT and the LLU on the net).

Sounds like Digital Britain will try to force us to have DAB radio with VHF FM analog going in due course ( so they can flog off the radio spectrum) , frankly its similar to BT old copper network in some ways. I travel the UK quite a lot and like to use Radio 4 most of the time, often even VHF Fm reception fails and we revert to 198Khz long wave , having tried DAB it is of no use to us car drivers in most places as it constantly popping , stuttering and then giving no coverage. I would have to scrap 7 or 8 beloved radios to go to a much poorer Digital Technology.

On the subject of my doubtful connection via 1980s BT copper ( aluminium ) as I am less than 500mtrs line of sight to the exchange I can only imagine what it would be like in 10 years time ( when analog radio broadcasting may go off air) if one lived in a small village say 10mls from the exchange in a valley when analog broadcasting shut off. No proper internet possible , no terrestrial reception ( TV or radio ) leaving you with satelite only . Not very portable if you want to listen in a car or say while gardening. Still Sky and Murdoch will win out, could this be the masterplan?

Hairyman

[dujas]

Part of living in the 'middle of nowhere' would be accepting that it's unlikely you'd have full access to all the private utility companies.

[hairyman]

With respect I hardly think living just 10 miles from an exchange ( often there are sub-exchanges closer) is unusual , also why should new technology ( viz Digital radio  and TV) actually be a backward step in service provided.

Most country dwellers wont have access to piped gas or mains sewers already , many are now loosing their TV during the digital change over and will have to go sky sat to get back what they are used to.

Hairyman

[bobleslie]

I always look forward with interest to Hairy's posts.

Apart from being informative, I know that no matter how badly I think I'm doing on my line he's doing so much worse on his. 

[Fox]

Speaking as a "country dweller" (I live in a small village in Yorkshire) I have to state i have mains gas/sewerage, my broadband (just normal ADSL, dunno if/when we will get ADSL2+) syncs at 8128. As far as I know all the surrounding villages/hamlets all have mains gas/sewerage too........things have moved on since the 1950's ya know  

Anyways have to go, need to pray to the great god Electro and sacrifice my first born child

[dujas]

If you're able to receive a decent analogue TV signal, why would the change to digital would result in no picture?

[hairyman]

Thanks to Dujas , Fox and bobleslie for your posts.

We  are Ok here for TV and all mains services living just south of Gloster. The digital TV is just OK with us even at the low power they transmit to us prior to the switch next year. Currently the transmitter near Hereford sends out 100kilowatt erp ( estimated radiated power) on analog and only 1kilowatt on digital. Come the changeover the analog goes off and digital will increase power to 10kW ish? Just three miles from here in my town of 7000 people is Stroud that is much larger they are in a series of valleys and only get the 4 / 5 analog channels right now ( unless they are lucky and live up the hillsides , Cotswolds. To get freeview channels you need Sky Freeview this means expense and regular replacement of the outside dishes. Not everyone is well off enough to pay loads of extra cash each year to replace hardware . Many people on northfacing slopes cannot even get Sky as their horizon is too high an angle . The local "fill in transmitter in Stroud is all analog I understand these will only be converted after the main "feed" transmitters switch off analog. Many Stroud houses cannot get Mendip/Wenvoe or Ridge Hill main sites on analog let alone on digital and rely on the local fill in.

Many places locally have only mains electric and incoming water around here , only the towns have gas nearly all the villages have none it being deemed not economic to supply the pipework. Many have septic tanks or similar for "downstream water" !! One of my mother neighbours only supplied service was mains water to his house ( only 800 metres from the village centre) and he just got mains electric supplied about eight years ago , they previously wanted £12K plus to supply , he got his supply for a nominal cost when a new cable was laid right past his house to take power from a wind turbine to the grid,  this gave him ( a pensioner ) an affordable connection.

Again at my old family home we only got mains sewerage on the 1960s ( even now if the power goes off for more than 4hours , which it does, the sewer pumps in the village go off and the overflowing tank makes a terrible mess down the valley , Severn Trent have to bring out a generator within three hours to prevent this. Currently my mum only gets marginal terrestrial Freeview with a big aerial etc, again its a long way to the Mendip Transmitter ( this will go up in power after next years changeover). No mains gas within 4 miles,  most of the Cotswolds apart from some of the towns have no gas.

I suggest you try to get a utility to supply  a few yards beyond an existing one , it will cost you a fortune , think of all the trenching for pipes and cables. Back in the 1950s and 60s the utilities were nationalised and most places got a service ( apart from gas which has always been difficult) even if it was not commercially viable, the downside you waited years to get it brought to you. Many lost out when the utilities were sold off by Maggie T.


My good friends live in a town in mid Wales they run a  small farm and just have mains electricity/telephone , the switchover to digital TV is happening now and it looks like they will get no digital to replace the analog when it goes off ( they will have to get three dishes etc to supply their families houses ) . They are only a few hundred yards from the main trunk road the A44 but they manage on spring water and septic tanks . They get about 200kbps on broadband which they are OK with but it will hardly give them live TV of even internet radio reliably so they rely on analog terrestrial for communication. Digital Radio and TV just doesn't "go as far" as analog. With digital as soon as you get weak signals or noise you get major data errors then freezing etc making it unusable. With Analog, weak signals or interference gives you "snow" or "crackling" but you can still use the service. MY friends very happy they don't get the drive by shootings, vandalism  and drug dealers on corners utilities that city dwellers benefit from ! ( likewise I am not blessed by these city based "addon " utilities).

The Digital Britain Report seems to me to be largely commercially driven , getting us to pay more for possibly less service and replacing all our gear. Personally I am in favour of hitting copyright cheating downloaders where it hurts, it is stealing after all.  Also don't forget Digital Transmissions of any sort are all encoded in some form so it is an easy extra step to go pay for view or listen by charging cash for a key.  

This is the real state of UK services for many also don't forget that the majority of country dwellers are not well off well healed types most live on modest incomes.

I am very fortunate to have all the services I need ( Cable would be nice but thats not going to happen ) . Only my  internet IP bounce from one meg to 5.5meg and back causing any real aggravation for me along with the intermittently noisy voice phoneline that sets it all off. Sadly for many "Digital Britain" remains and will remain a unobtainable myth ( a bit like mains supplied gas!!)  

My actual throughput on broadband remains at 4meg tonight with a 6.5meg sync , line noise has been low for three days , I wonder how long it will last?   SNR here still remains at 16db at 6500k sync at 37db line loss , all on the downstream side.

Hairyman

[rireed3]

Very nice description, except for

drive by shootings, vandalism  and drug dealers on corners utilities that city dwellers benefit from ! ( likewise I am not blessed by these city based "addon " utilities).

...nor am I in North London.  Our crime statistics are about 30% higher than the national average, and about 50% higher than Stroud (findaproperty.com).  I saw one purse-snatching and 2 shop break-ins in 10 years.  The biggest nuisance are the crowds of double-wide prams.

I still can't understand how they get away without fixing...

the intermittently noisy voice phoneline

I remember your case as being particularly bad and that it was pronounced "within spec" by your friendly local Openreach engineer, but like the Firesign Theatre used to say in the 60's, "...they never come up into the hills..."

Richard

[hairyman]

Hi rireed3

Yes I know the figures and facts on the ground and "fact" as reported by the press don't always tie up.

A colleague lives in central Birmingham and he cannot justify house contents insurance because of the cost we compared quotes and his was over 4 times as much as mine. Similarly the old postcode lottery means he pays twice as much for car insurance as me , he is a little bit bit younger than me to be fair,  but my car is 4 groups higher and worth three times as much. So I guess the insurance guys see the risks in terms of payouts in each area.

Funnily enough my colleague has broadband ( with O2 on LLU 8meg ) he has over 2.5miles of wire to his exchange despite living  in a city centre but he gets near full rate sync and mostly 6meg on downloads, compared to my less than 1km of cable to an exchange 400metres away and I get 6meg syncs and between 800k and very occasionally 5.5meg downloads.

The trouble is the line is only intermittently noisy ( but persistant) I got 13 disconnects and a voice line on I think Monday/Tuesday this week but its been OK since then. The  week before we had probably hundreds of dropouts in total due to line noise and often the sync had been forced down to 2meg until a manual reboot of the router brought it back up ( then a 24 to 72hours wait for BTs wacky IProfile to ramp up again.

Its not as if I live in a remote spot the town only uprated itself to a town from a village/parish a few years ago but it still has 6000 residential lines  and is in Market 1  ( BT as sole provider ) as reported by Sam Knows. My mothers village is nearby and they can only get around 1 to 2 meg syncs due to long lines ( 4/5miles to just the local sub exchange.

Thanks again.

Hairyman

[hairyman]

Hi All

Long time no post!

Mostly due to being busy elsewhere and not wanting to get involved with rubbish BT/Idnet hassles.

My comnnection still varies between 800ktput and 4.5meg tput depending how it feels.

Voice line still noisy to the point of not being able to hear the incoming call ( turn off router no change same with alternate phone).

I can clear the line voice noise by switching the simple phone to pulse dialling and sending out hundreds of say 7s or 8s.

During the noisy phases if the router is on the both Line atten will  rise typically the downstream goes from 37db to 43db and the connection may drop. Using the phone when it gives noise on a quiet line test the routers SNR will drop from say 17db down to 10db  down to 0db . This occurs on picking up the line or putting it back transition . Changed filters etc I even have an extra filter in the phone side feed ( using its phone socket) which kind of eliminates any chance of low impedance voice line fouling up HF broadband.

Tried to call IDNET all day today Friday but they are on answerphone service even in office hours , dont they man the phones these days ?? Even the sales line goes straight to answerphone after telling you their hours of buisness. Has the good gone bad or maybe just a long fire drill at IDnet House ( or a party !).

Hairyman

[Rik]

Phones are working again now...

[hairyman]

Hi Rik

How are you trust U R well.

I left an answerphone message on IDs system but I may call then anyway.

I suspect they will only suggest a new line installation ( its all underground though , no ducting either until well down the road)

The other option is try AAISP as they offer a a pretty solid promise of no fix no fee.

The problem is mainly now voice line noise as I use the net so little in terms of downloads ( a few hundred meg a month) now that I can cope with the slow speeds .

The disconnects are annoying as when they happen during say secure type logon activites the system fouls up and last night I was locked out of my internet financial stuff until I went through a telephone / postal reactivation. Thats bl**dy annoying!!!

Thanks
Hairyman
Hairyman

[Rik]

Hi Hairy, I'm fine thanks. Ultimately, a new physical line is the way forward. It may be worth a try with A&A, but David hasn't found that they can achieve anything that IDNet can't, but you've little to lose.

[Glenn]

Does AAISP's promise cover lines that are noisy on the voice side?

[Rik]

No idea, Glenn.

[hairyman]

AAISP imply that all normal line faults should be cleared by their ADSL process . They talk about disconnects and Ipprofile optimisations. Frankly IDnet have done wonders for my throughput when my Ipprofile is high but the drop in profiles returns me speeds I had 5 years ago until it recovers. The line noise is now unacceptable and as I am on  a IDnet phone package they will need to initiate an improvement there with BT.

The noise is still intermittant but very persistant and results in almost swamped conversations . It is getting a lot worse this year. Its especially bad now as we haven't had rain for a nearly a month and its always worse in dry spells. Water must fill the ducts and dampen the bad joints!!

The other option is go LLU which will  dump the IPprofiling which is the main ADSL problem. Using a mobile phone for phone seems the best option and maybe for bb as well ! Don't forget I am only 400metres from the exchange (line of sight).

Glad to know U are well Rik and still fighting for us.

Don't know what ordering a new physical line will actually be , a lift and shift has already been done I think, a new cable across and down the road to the manhole might be possible , the second "spare" pair to my property I believe was the cause of a total line loss about 18years ago So that may not be usable?

Regards

Hairyman  

[Rik]

The problem always is whether BT are prepared to spend the money needed. If not, then going for a new line is sometimes cheaper than paying for engineer visits that achieve nothing.

[hairyman]

Rik

Now I am with IDnet for phone service as well as bb I assume IDnet do all the fault reporting and remote testing etc that I used to get direct with BT?

Current projects to take my mind off these net/phone problems are building a pair of gates for my drive and organising a trip to do some mountain walking scrambling in Snowdonia for a few newcomers to the hills. Any semi serious rock jocks out there?? if so PM me if interested?

Hairyman

[Rik]

They do, Hairy. I developed crackling on my line and they had an engineer here in two hours flat. He re-crimped the joint at the distribution point and all has been well since.

I'm more an armchair jock.

[bobleslie]

Hi Hairy, I'm fine thanks. Ultimately, a new physical line is the way forward. It may be worth a try with A&A, but David hasn't found that they can achieve anything that IDNet can't, but you've little to lose.

Actually, Rik, David wrote on 22 September:

I realise now that BT were the culprits but that was cold comfort at the time A&A claim that they would fix the line or I would owe nothing was the clincher and to me I had nothing to lose,they did get it fixed and here I am

They fixed my troubles as well, so.............

[hairyman]

I am fairly in favour in Armchair jockeying these days but still find the call of the wild draws me out quite often. A great way to recharge your soul while wearing out your soles.

They do, Hairy. I developed crackling on my line and they had an engineer here in two hours flat. He re-crimped the joint at the distribution point and all has been well since.

I'm more an armchair jock.

Could I get a job at BT, some days I do hundreds of cables crimps a day  at work??  

Hi Bobleslie Might be worth a try with AAISP as the daytime 1gig limit would be fine as I rarely use this much at all time throughout a month at all times, this might increase as I hope to come down to a four day week sometime soon.

Hairyman