Started last night?

[Inactive]

Its helpful to give stats, to work out if its a gateway issue ect... its not helpful to say to people .... if you have an issue and not happy... you dont have to stay with idnet.

Sorry if that offended you, I was only stating what I would do if I was not happy with a service, as it happens I am happy with the service provided by IDNet, it isn't 100% perfect at all times, but on balance, over a long period they have proven to be a good solid provider of BB to me.

[Gary]

Its helpful to give stats, to work out if its a gateway issue ect... its not helpful to say to people .... if you have an issue and not happy... you dont have to stay with idnet.

This is not helping anyone and getting into an argument ippylad (which I am very good at myself so don't take offence) is not helping, if you have something to say to In, PM him, but as far as resolving the issue you will have to wait for the end of the Olympics, this constant arguing over who said what is pointless really, and making a already huge thread longer for no real reason, as In did point out. I know you feel frustrated, I am sure other users in your boat feel the same but this topic is just going in circles and getting nowhere  best leave it, and wait to see what happens next with your line.

[psp83]

And just think... It could be worse. You could be with Tiscali 

These problems are no where near the problems i got when i was with Tiscali. So i'm happy to put up with a problem if its not a long term problem.

Nothing can be as bad as Tiscali

I'm on .dsl4 btw.

[Gary]

And just think... It could be worse. You could be with Tiscali 

These problems are no where near the problems i got when i was with Tiscali. So i'm happy to put up with a problem if its not a long term problem.

Nothing can be as bad as Tiscali

I'm on .dsl4 btw.

Or with Orange

[Rik]

Here's what I know about the problem.

1) BT have delayed the supply of IDNet's WBC connection, so the extra bandwidth that should have been available now is not (it was due to be delivered in 65 days, but will take about six months instead).

2) As has been said, any business looks to balance its costs against its income. Until now, IDNet have managed the balancing act pretty well and congestion has not been an issue.

3) The Olympics seem to have put the iPlayer firmly on the map, and as the games have gone on, demand has gone up significantly. IDNet are not the only ISP to be affected by this.

Could they have foreseen it? I don't know. Could they have prevented the problem? Yes. However, to do so would have meant having extra capacity which costs money, that extra cost would have to be passed on. The problem is that if the demand is a once in four years event, most customers won't want to pay the extra cost and the alternative is a failed business.

I should imagine that all ISPs will be reviewing the situation after the games. For example, will a lot more people have been introduced to iPlayer as a result, and continue to use it? That will help to make sensible future plans. One solution, and this is just a personal opinion, would be to make access to the iPlayer (and others) an additional subscription. That way, the extra costs would be borne by those who want to use the service.

When BT delivers on WBC, life will be a bit simpler, as ISPs will be able to 'turn on' extra capacity for short periods, whereas with IPStream they have the significant costs of adding a new central - and a lead time of three months or so to do it. Clearly, having a spare central idling for four years is not sustainable.

I don't think this is an issue which can be resolved in the forum. By all means discuss it, but we cannot come up with any solutions as we can for, say, a line losing sync. Each customer will have to make their own decision as to whether to stay with IDNet based on their own needs. Like In, I've not noticed a significant impact, beyond ping times to the BBC. It's certainly not an issue we should be falling out over, we're all customers, none of us has any say in the running of IDNet beyond whether we remain customers. To be honest, therefore, the only advice anyone can give in this situation is if you're not happy with the service, move to another ISP. That's not to dismiss anyone's complaint, it's just the only possible solution.

[Simon]

Thanks Rik. 

[psp83]

 

[Ray]

  Rik, good post. 

[cavillas]

I think all iPlayer (and other) users should pay extra for that privilege because of the impact on general users. Why should BBC and others get away with offloading their transmission costs (via internet) onto the isp's?  Supposing I set up a telephone system that people could access for news would BT be happy about paying for people to use that system?  That seems to be a parallel to me.

[ducky22]

Why?

ISPs sell a product with bandwidth limits. If an ISP can't cope with the allowances it set then it a) needs to increase prices b) decrease allowances or c) sack their management team.

The issue here is not the iPlayer!!! Dear lord... Why does anyone think it is acceptable to run a network where a 20% increase in traffic will have such a huge effect on performance? Actually, don't answer that unless you have experience deploying networks.

IDNet have obviously oversold hugely recently, much more so than they did in the past.

The issue isn't necessarily on the BT side of the network. Most ISPs also buy bandwidth elsewhere and peer directly with the likes of LINX. The issues I saw indicate a saturated peering point and not an issue with BT. From experience, upgrading a peering point is fairly quick - a few days at most.

What would be ideal is if IDNet release some MRTG graphs from across their network.

Up until now I've found them to be a faultless ISP. There is an issue here, something more than just "oh its all because of the olympics" spool we've been receiving.

[cavillas]

IDNet have obviously oversold hugely recently

Do you have any proof of this?  Do you have any inside information or is it just conjecture on your part and trying to pass it off as fact?  This is so often the cause of arguments and rows.  Without proof then it is best to preface your argument with I think or I believe and not state it as an incontrovertible fact without the necessary proof.

I can answer and I do not have experience with deployoing networks, that is a red herring.  Where did you get your figure of 20%?  How do you know that this is the correct figure, it could be 80 or 90%.

It could very well be the Olympics problem, unless you beleive that Tim and co. are lying or trying to mislead its customers, not the people or company I have known or conversed with over the past three years or so.

As far as peering points go Idnet have quite a few, it is on their website.

I am and always will be an ardent supporter of Idnet they provide an excellent service and besides a few recent glitches (which were sorted with an honest answer) They as any other Isp cannot respond to such a massive increase in a saturated network.  Don't forget Childrens holidays as well as the Olympic fans.

No company release information that could be of benefit to other competitors at its own expense.

[ducky22]

It is fairly obvious, to someone with experience, that the issue is capacity based. High latency and slight packet loss have been going on since before "the olympics" came along. I'm not the only one who's seen it.

It is unfortunate you decided not to read the thread before butting in. 20% is a figure Rik was given from IDNet. If a 20% increase in traffic is causing such drastic slow downs then unquestionable, IDNet have been overselling more than they used to.

It is irrelevant how many peering points they have. Some are becoming saturated/experiencing very high traffic sometimes.

I do believe IDNet are not telling the full truth and being transparent. The Olympics is simply a pathetic excuse.

cavillas... Releasing MRTG graphs is standard practise for professional network providers. You may wish to read up on what they are - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRTG.

[cavillas]

If you do not like Idnet though why stay?  There is only the truth or not the truth, there cannot be only part of the truth if you are being honest any more than someone can be slightly pregnant.  And you are still bragging that you have all this knowledge and experience other than that you are quite a nice person.

Time for 

[ducky22]

I'm not bragging I'm simply saying I understand it, you clearly don't. That's not a personally attack on you, its simply the plain and simple truth.

I never once said I didn't like IDNet. Quite the opposite actually. If I didn't, I wouldn't be wasting my time - I'd move to another provider in an instant. I've been exceptionally happy with them up until recently. I want them to fix the problems and be the ISP they were. Unfortunately they're starting to go the way Plusnet did 3 years ago.

IDNet aren't giving the whole story. That is the truth.

[Rik]

I don't think it's a pathetic excuse, Ducky. I'd take a bet that no ISP actually has capacity for all of its customers to max their connections simultaneously. It can be done, of course, but the service would cost a lot more as a result. It seems to me that what has happened here is that peak demand has increased in an unprecedented way, and that has not been foreseen by a number of ISPs. The situation has not been helped by BT slippage in delivering IDNet's WBC connection, and in their exchange programme. It's also not helped by the fact that IDNet do not shape or throttle traffic directly, nor do they cut off users if they reach their package ceiling. Of course, until now, that has all been a positive.

Overall, IDNet have delivered for the 22 months I've been with them, and I'm not personally being affected by the current problems. Others obviously feel the same as I do, and a second group feel as you do. There's no point in any of us having a go at each other, we are neither responsible for the situation, nor can we do anything to change it. Unfortunately, there is only one immediate remedy for those who want it, and that is to migrate, as I've mentioned earlier.

Hopefully, by 2012 (or sooner), the bandwidth model will be completely changed by WBC, and ISPs will be better placed to respond to surges in demand.

As to what is the truth, or the whole truth, none of us is placed to know what that is. We either trust or we don't.

[Simon]

Ducky, if you're so convinced IDNet are not telling the whole truth, why don't you ring them, and ask them directly? 

[psp83]

if its capacity at idnet's end wouldn't this cause the same problem for everyone using idnet?

Since some members are not seeing this problem does this point to exchange congestion or somewhere between exchange-> bt-> idnet? 

[David]

If you do not like Idnet though why stay?  There is only the truth or not the truth, there cannot be only part of the truth if you are being honest any more than someone can be slightly pregnant.  And you are still bragging that you have all this knowledge and experience other than that you are quite a nice person.

Time for 

Is it me or is it warm around here guys.........

[Rik]

if its capacity at idnet's end wouldn't this cause the same problem for everyone using idnet?

Since some members are not seeing this problem does this point to exchange congestion or somewhere between exchange-> bt-> idnet? 

I suspect it's a combination of things, Paul.

[psp83]

I suspect it's a combination of things, Paul.

I do aswell.. as the people that hasn't really noticed it have shown about 1mb or less of there normal speeds.

Others have shown upto 80% reduced speed. So this leads me to more local congestion than anything else.

[Rik]

I've certainly suspected that I'm not seeing it because my line is low-speed anyway. OTOH, In's at practically full speed, but in a relatively lightly used exchange. There do appear to be a number of factors, starting with the BT infrastructure, but I'm confident that IDNet will look at what has happened and learn from it, as they did when the mail server failed.

[Inactive]

Look, we can go round and round in circles until the cow's come home, it is apparent to me that nothing in the short term can be done about, it is affecting other ISP's, so not exclusive to IDNet, so in my opinion it is futile to continue to rant on about.

All I can say with honesty, other than the Microsoft blip, it has not had an adverse effect on my connection.

I have suggested the options before, and got shot down in flames for it, but realistically, as I see things, there are only 2 options, live with it, or leave.

I await the  

[Ray]

I've certainly suspected that I'm not seeing it because my line is low-speed anyway. OTOH, In's at practically full speed, but in a relatively lightly used exchange. There do appear to be a number of factors, starting with the BT infrastructure, but I'm confident that IDNet will look at what has happened and learn from it, as they did when the mail server failed.

Agree with you, Rik,  I am in a similar situation to In, I've not noticed any particular drop in speed but I am also on a rural exchange with only just over 1600 subscribers the majority of which are residential.

[Rik]

I have suggested the options before, and got shot down in flames for it, but realistically, as I see things, there are only 2 options, live with it, or leave.

You're right, In. As a short term solution those are the only options. For the long term, we have to wait for BT to give IDNet the capacity they've ordered and for IDNet to make their own decisions about packages and pricing.

If anyone has a specific point they want to discuss, they do need to contact IDNet. As users, we can't tell them more than has already been said in this thread.

[Rik]

Agree with you, Rik,  I am in a similar situation to In, I've not noticed any particular drop in speed but I am also on a rural exchange with only just over 1600 subscribers the majority of which are residential.

I suspect there is more than a small clue in that, Ray. I'm not saying IDNet haven't also got a problem, we know they have as they've told us so. But it's not simply resolved if the BT infrastructure is struggling.

IAC, hopefully, the problem will disappear after Sunday, though as I've said before, I'm sure there will be a post mortem and lessons will be learnt.