Hi
Just wondering, I was uploading a 30MB file yesterday to my online file storage - however, while uploading, all my internet services stopped: browsing, iPlayer, etc... - internet was unusable, completely - no pages loaded at all. However, strangely, MSN still functioned along with the upload process.
I'm aware that while uploading, the bandwidth takes up some space in the "pipe" and I'd expect downloads to slow down, but I wouldn't expect them to stop completely!
I've got a primarily Wi-Fi setup with various extenders and a reasonable speed (see signature), bar a high-ish ping (any ideas on how to reduce that? ;D).
Just wondering if this happens to anyone else - thanks! ;D ;D
I can't explain it, tbh. When I upload, I usually carry on with whatever else I am doing without any problems. You'd need to start by examining what processes were running at the time and see if anything took the CPU to 100 or close. It would also be worth checking with a different router to see if that was where the problem lay. Were you uploading from a cabled or wireless machine, possibly the wireless adaptor choked.
As to pings, there's nothing you can do to change them. What do you get if you manually ping www.idnet.net? Do you know if your connection is interleaved?
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:26:37
I can't explain it, tbh. When I upload, I usually carry on with whatever else I am doing without any problems. You'd need to start by examining what processes were running at the time and see if anything took the CPU to 100 or close. It would also be worth checking with a different router to see if that was where the problem lay. Were you uploading from a cabled or wireless machine, possibly the wireless adaptor choked.
As to pings, there's nothing you can do to change them. What do you get if you manually ping www.idnet.net? Do you know if your connection is interleaved?
Just did a ping - is this high for things like downloading/gaming?
Ping has started ...
PING www.idnet.net (212.69.36.10): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=0 ttl=59 time=26.793 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=31.644 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=27.967 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=39.558 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=4 ttl=59 time=26.310 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=5 ttl=59 time=28.330 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=6 ttl=59 time=28.941 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=7 ttl=59 time=29.321 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=8 ttl=59 time=27.911 ms
64 bytes from x: icmp_seq=9 ttl=59 time=27.427 ms
--- www.idnet.net ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 26.310/29.420/39.558/3.662 ms
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:26:37
I can't explain it, tbh. When I upload, I usually carry on with whatever else I am doing without any problems. You'd need to start by examining what processes were running at the time and see if anything took the CPU to 100 or close. It would also be worth checking with a different router to see if that was where the problem lay. Were you uploading from a cabled or wireless machine, possibly the wireless adaptor choked.
As to pings, there's nothing you can do to change them. What do you get if you manually ping www.idnet.net? Do you know if your connection is interleaved?
Just pinged my router (over wi-fi) and got this - why are there anomalies?
Ping has started ...
PING 192.168.0.1 (192.168.0.1): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=1.523 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=1.560 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=1.730 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=2.594 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=1.497 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=5 ttl=255 time=22.134 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=6 ttl=255 time=1.617 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=7 ttl=255 time=21.047 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=8 ttl=255 time=3.426 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.1: icmp_seq=9 ttl=255 time=1.615 ms
--- 192.168.0.1 ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 1.497/5.874/22.134/7.883 ms
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:26:37
I can't explain it, tbh. When I upload, I usually carry on with whatever else I am doing without any problems. You'd need to start by examining what processes were running at the time and see if anything took the CPU to 100 or close. It would also be worth checking with a different router to see if that was where the problem lay. Were you uploading from a cabled or wireless machine, possibly the wireless adaptor choked.
As to pings, there's nothing you can do to change them. What do you get if you manually ping www.idnet.net? Do you know if your connection is interleaved?
Also... interleaved? ???
Cheers Rik, you're a great, great help for this forum :)
The anomalies are down to a wireless connection, which adds latency. Your basic ping is OK, the line is probably interleaved.
See Kitz on the subject:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:36:42
The anomalies are down to a wireless connection, which adds latency. Your basic ping is OK, the line is probably interleaved.
See Kitz on the subject:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/interleaving.htm
OK, so should I request interleaving to be turned off then? How can I check if my line is susceptible to noise?
What are your router stats for sync speed, noise margin and attenuation - downstream? Can you access the error stats?
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:42:08
What are your router stats for sync speed, noise margin and attenuation - downstream? Can you access the error stats?
Sure, here are the statistics:
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9703/picture27v.png)
You have interleaving on (the 7616 is the giveaway). It would be worth getting it turned off and see what happens. BT will generally do this once. If the system then turns it back on again, they tend to regard that as a final verdict on the quality of the line.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:46:06
You have interleaving on (the 7616 is the giveaway). It would be worth getting it turned off and see what happens. BT will generally do this once. If the system then turns it back on again, they tend to regard that as a final verdict on the quality of the line.
OK, but are my noise levels low enough to allow for a high-quality experience with interleaving turned off? Will it improve latency and speeds? Also, how do I go about changing it and is it free? Thanks :)
You have 4db of extra margin 'headroom', so the line should run at 8128 without problem. Without knowing your error count, I can't say whether it will or not. It's free to change, just ask support to have it switched off. It will reduce latency by some 10-20ms, speed should also go up as your profile would moved from 6.5M to 7.15M.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:51:24
You have 4db of extra margin 'headroom', so the line should run at 8128 without problem. Without knowing your error count, I can't say whether it will or not. It's free to change, just ask support to have it switched off. It will reduce latency by some 10-20ms, speed should also go up as your profile would moved from 6.5M to 7.15M.
Great! That appears to be all the data in the statistics so I can't give you error counts, unless there's another method to obtain that data.
Which version of the Netgear do you have?
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 15:54:22
Which version of the Netgear do you have?
It's the first version of the DG834 wired router with an Apple Time Capsule attached in bridge mode. Also, I've just remembered that I live exactly 1km away from the exchange if that means anything :)
I had interleaving turned off on my line on Thursday morning and my synch has gone to 8128, noise margin has fallen from 13 to 9.5 and pings to 17/18ms, my profile hasn't changed from 6500 as yet.
I've had no problems since the change and the connection has been up for 2.5 days since I rebooted the router on Thursday morning. :fingers:
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 15:57:28
It's the first version of the DG834 wired router with an Apple Time Capsule attached in bridge mode. Also, I've just remembered that I live exactly 1km away from the exchange if that means anything :)
In that case:
Enter this in the browser address bar:
http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug
which should result in a screen which just says 'Debug enable'.
(That's assuming that you haven't changed the router's IP address from the default).
Then exit from the web interface and open a command-line window. Type:
telnet 192.168.0.1
You should get a BusyBox welcome message to confirm that your telnet connection is established.
Now type:
cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats
Cut and paste the figures you get, would you. The 1km doesn't mean too much, it's the route the cable takes which counts. It's usually about double and according to your stats, that's exactly what you've got (attenuation is ~10db per km of cable).
Could anyone explain what all that raw data in the statistics panel actually means? Thanks :D
Quote from: Sheltieuk on Jun 13, 2009, 15:58:02
I had interleaving turned off on my line on Thursday morning and my synch has gone to 8128, noise margin has fallen from 13 to 9.5 and pings to 17/18ms, my profile hasn't changed from 6500 as yet.
I've had no problems since the change and the connection has been up for 2.5 days since I rebooted the router on Thursday morning. :fingers:
You'll probably have to wait 3-5 days, Ray.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:00:30
In that case:
Enter this in the browser address bar:
http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?todo=debug
which should result in a screen which just says 'Debug enable'.
(That's assuming that you haven't changed the router's IP address from the default).
Then exit from the web interface and open a command-line window. Type:
telnet 192.168.0.1
You should get a BusyBox welcome message to confirm that your telnet connection is established.
Now type:
cat /proc/avalanche/avsar_modem_stats
Cut and paste the figures you get, would you. The 1km doesn't mean too much, it's the route the cable takes which counts. It's usually about double and according to your stats, that's exactly what you've got (attenuation is ~10db per km of cable).
I'm a mac user so I can't do command prompts I don't think - unless the same commands work in Terminal.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:01:16
You'll probably have to wait 3-5 days, Ray.
Yes, that's what I thought, Rik, hopefully it should move up to 7150. :) :fingers:
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 16:00:56
Could anyone explain what all that raw data in the statistics panel actually means? Thanks :D
In what sense? The figures show the current sync speed up and down, the attenuation (effectively the length of the cable) and the noise margins (the amount of headroom the signal has over the background noise. Attenuation doesn't change much, but has a determining effect on sync speed. However, there is a hidden variable of noise, which isn't reflected in any router's stats, but which determines the sync speed achieved for a given line. Two lines can have the same attenuation but a different sync speed because one is more prone to noise pickup. When the router and DSLAM (or MSAN) are negotiating the connection, the amount of ambient noise will affect which tones can be used, and thus the sync speed.
Quote from: Sheltieuk on Jun 13, 2009, 16:04:26
Yes, that's what I thought, Rik, hopefully it should move up to 7150. :) :fingers:
It will if you hold the 8128 sync, Ray.
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 16:02:19
I'm a mac user so I can't do command prompts I don't think - unless the same commands work in Terminal.
Turns out it does work in Terminal - here's the data:
AR7 DSL Modem Statistics:
--------------------------------
[DSL Modem Stats]
US Connection Rate: 448 DS Connection Rate: 7616
DS Line Attenuation: 21 DS Margin: 10
US Line Attenuation: 14 US Margin: 28
US Payload : 1253357664 DS Payload: 2643626368
US Superframe Cnt : 50123687 DS Superframe Cnt: 50123687
US Transmit Power : 0 DS Transmit Power: 0
LOS errors: 0 SEF errors: 0
Errored Seconds: 0 Severely Err Secs: 0
Frame mode: 3 Max Frame mode: 0
Trained Path: 1 US Peak Cell Rate: 1056
Trained Mode: 3 Selected Mode: 1
ATUC Vendor Code: 414C4342 ATUC Revision: 1
Hybrid Selected: 1 Trellis: 1
Showtime Count: 14 DS Max Attainable Bit Rate: 11360 kbps
BitSwap: 1 US Max Attainable Bit Rate: n/a
Annex: AnxA psd_mask_qualifier: 0x0000
Power Management Status: L0 DS HLINSC: 0
US ACTPSD: -345 DS ACTPSD: -365
Total init. errors: 1 Total init. timeouts: 0
Showtime init. errors: 0 Showtime init. timeouts: 0
Last showtime init. errors: 0 Last showtime init. timeouts: 0
ATUC ghsVid: 0f 00 41 4c 43 42 00 00
T1413Vid: 00 00 T1413Rev: 00 VendorRev: 00
ATUR ghsVid: b5 00 54 53 54 43 00 00
T1413Vid: 00 00 T1413Rev: 00 VendorRev: 00
[Upstream (TX) Interleave path]
CRC: 5 FEC: 204 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 272
[Downstream (RX) Interleave path]
CRC: 22 FEC: 4923 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[Upstream (TX) Fast path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 1
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[Downstream (RX) Fast path]
CRC: 0 FEC: 0 NCD: 0
LCD: 0 HEC: 0
[ATM Stats]
[Upstream/TX]
Good Cell Cnt: 26111618
Idle Cell Cnt: 874223288
Tx Packets Dropped Count: 0
Tx Bad Packets Count: 975
[Downstream/RX)]
Good Cell Cnt: 234032520
Idle Cell Cnt: 2186758688
Bad Hec Cell Cnt: 226
Overflow Dropped Cell Cnt: 0
Rx Packets Dropped Count: 0
Rx Bad Packets Count: 0
[SAR AAL5 Stats]
Tx PDU's: 70711388
Rx PDU's: 94017234
Tx Total Bytes: 1304119983
Rx Total Bytes: 4132938604
Tx Total Error Counts: 0
Rx Total Error Counts: 35
[OAM Stats]
Near End F5 Loop Back Count: 0
Near End F4 Loop Back Count: 0
Far End F5 Loop Back Count: 0
Far End F4 Loop Back Count: 0
SAR OAM Ping Response Drop Count=0
#
(Sorry for the poor formatting! :D)
How long has the router been 'up'?
That's a pretty low error count unless you've just re-booted it, so I think you'll be OK with interleaving off. The only slightly worrying thing is you've has some bad upstream packets, which can signify local noise.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:13:20
How long has the router been 'up'?
That's a pretty low error count unless you've just re-booted it, so I think you'll be OK with interleaving off. The only slightly worrying thing is you've has some bad upstream packets, which can signify local noise.
WAN-22:12:36
LAN-2872:52:42
What could be causing local noise? Also, I just found this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/22/zen_ar7_infineon_bt_fault/) article which is a bit worrying...
Local noise? A phone, a Sky box (not necessarily yours), fluorescent lights, central heating pumps, high-energy appliances, eg washing machines and dishwashers, fridges, freezers etc. The thing to try is de-tuning a battery powered MW radio so you just have white noise, then following the path of your phone line with it from where it enters the house to the router. If the noise gets significantly louder, that's a noise source you've found.
The chipset issue is well known to us, DG834g v4 is not prone to it, ditto the v5.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:20:52
Local noise? A phone, a Sky box (not necessarily yours), fluorescent lights, central heating pumps, high-energy appliances, eg washing machines and dishwashers, fridges, freezers etc. The thing to try is de-tuning a battery powered MW radio so you just have white noise, then following the path of your phone line with it from where it enters the house to the router. If the noise gets significantly louder, that's a noise source you've found.
The chipset issue is well known to us, DG834g v4 is not prone to it, ditto the v5.
I have the v1 :)
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 16:15:44
Also, I just found this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/22/zen_ar7_infineon_bt_fault/) article which is a bit worrying...
I think this business of the AR7 has been beaten to death. From talking to some of the Zen people I gather that any problems are the result of very specific combinations of circumstances which most people are unlikely to come across. In any event the chip is not the whole story, there are variations in firmware both within particular makes/model ranges and also across different manufacturers.
That said, most people seem to experience lower speeds with AR7 based routers compared to Broadcom based ones. Some of this could be due to different firmware trading stability for speed gains, some could be differences in reporting.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you are having major problems and even then there are most likely other factors at work.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:20:52
Local noise? A phone, a Sky box (not necessarily yours), fluorescent lights, central heating pumps, high-energy appliances, eg washing machines and dishwashers, fridges, freezers etc. The thing to try is de-tuning a battery powered MW radio so you just have white noise, then following the path of your phone line with it from where it enters the house to the router. If the noise gets significantly louder, that's a noise source you've found.
The chipset issue is well known to us, DG834g v4 is not prone to it, ditto the v5.
OK, I just went around with an MW radio. Noise is coming from a wired answerphone, wireless points and the router itself. Also, noise from fridge (not freezer ??? ::)), digital radios and computer power adaptors. However, no noise is coming from lights, washing machines, dishwashers, Sky boxes, and the phone line route appears to be relatively noise free apart from a substantial spike in the room where the master socket is caused by a digital thermosat. Wireless extenders (AirPort Express) are generating a lot of noise too, but these are not near the phoneline.
Unless you have multi-room, unplug the Sky box from the phone line (if you haven't already). Power off the answerphone and disconnect it from the line, does either action result in your d/s NM increasing?
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:44:25
Unless you have multi-room, unplug the Sky box from the phone line (if you haven't already). Power off the answerphone and disconnect it from the line, does either action result in your d/s NM increasing?
We have multi-room ;D
So, is the noise margin figure updated in real time? If so, can I just go around the house troubleshooting by unplugging things then? Also, the router is generating a lot of noise - can it affect itself like that?
I think something else that's possible is that uploading to FTP can just use 100% of the upload bandwidth, making web browsing impossible. It doesn't tend to happen with downloading so much as we rarely achieve the maximum throughput given that it's so much higher.
The router noise is normal, it's the chipsets at work. If you remove a source of noise from the line, you will see the NM increase in real time. It's worth having a little play to see just how much noise your house is adding to the signal.
Will the BT I-Plate help?
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 13, 2009, 16:53:41
I think something else that's possible is that uploading to FTP can just use 100% of the upload bandwidth, making web browsing impossible. It doesn't tend to happen with downloading so much as we rarely achieve the maximum throughput given that it's so much higher.
So is it normal then?
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 16:54:35
Will the BT I-Plate help?
Not unless you have the ring wires connected. If that's the case, it's cheaper and very easy to disconnect them.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:55:16
Not unless you have the ring wires connected. If that's the case, it's cheaper and very easy to disconnect them.
Ring wires? Also, I should add, the line is
exclusively used for ADSL.
So no extensions and the Sky boxes are not connected to it. Then there's nothing to be done internally.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:57:21
So no extensions and the Sky boxes are not connected to it. Then there's nothing to be done internally.
Correct. So I-Plate won't help.
No, as it only serves to disconnect the ring wire.
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 16:54:59
So is it normal then?
If you are maxing out the upload bandwidth, yes. Check if there is an option in your FTP client to limit the upload speed. I might be completely wrong, but just a thought.
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 13, 2009, 17:04:15
If you are maxing out the upload bandwidth, yet. Check if there is an option in your FTP client to limit the upload speed. I might be completely wrong, but just a thought.
Well it's just to services like Flickr, so I can't limit anything :S
Run something like NetMeter or the ThinkBroadband meter, and look at your bandwidth during the upload... except they are both Windows apps. :( Is there a Mac equivalent, Seb?
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 16:59:14
No, as it only serves to disconnect the ring wire.
I just checked the ADSL line - there are no extensions or other sockets. There is only one phone socket. It has a microfilter in it splitting one feed into the router - there is nothing plugged into the other socket on the microfilter. However, the phone line travels through a box but I have no idea what it is.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9088/photohho.jpg)
:)
That's just a standard junction box.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:07:26
Is there a Mac equivalent, Seb?
Not sure. :dunno:
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:07:26
Run something like NetMeter or the ThinkBroadband meter, and look at your bandwidth during the upload... except they are both Windows apps. :( Is there a Mac equivalent, Seb?
Just did a bandwidth test during the upload - gets anything between 400 and 500 kb/s upload and anything between 10 and 4000 kb/s download. But whatever the download rate is, I can get emails, use MSN, but anything in Safari or Firefox stops.
Try Opera. I can't see why you shouldn't be able to browse with those figures. (Unless, of course, your wireless signal is the problem.)
Quote from: Sebby on Jun 13, 2009, 17:11:19
Not sure. :dunno:
There's one for the Mac called NetMonitor. Shareware - £8ish - but you can use it for 15 days. Note it monitors the network interface on the machine it's installed on which will not necessarily be the same as what goes to/from the internet.
You can get it here. (http://homepage.mac.com/rominar/net.html)
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:17:52
Try Opera. I can't see why you shouldn't be able to browse with those figures. (Unless, of course, your wireless signal is the problem.)
Should I test it hard-wired?
Thanks, Tac. :thumb:
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 17:18:51
Should I test it hard-wired?
OK just did ping/bandwidth test. One one computer I uploaded the file over ethernet (to router). On other computer, connected over Wi-Fi, internet did not work. After upload, internet was fine. Also, there is no (or very, very little) packet loss over wi-fi but ethernet speeds are around 200/300k faster.
So you're saying that with a wired connection the problem goes away? It looks like your wireless isn't coping in that case.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:30:38
So you're saying that with a wired connection the problem goes away? It looks like your wireless isn't coping in that case.
No, the problem is the same over wired. What I'm saying it that it's not my computer, as internet is also unusable on other computers in the house. After the upload completes, everything is then fine - so it's either a problem with the router, IDNet, or MobileMe (the service I'm uploading to). I think others might have this problem too: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=9564224&tstart=0
It looks a bit like an Apple problem, doesn't it. Have a word with support on Monday, they speak fluent Mac and may have some ideas.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:35:30
It looks a bit like an Apple problem, doesn't it. Have a word with support on Monday, they speak fluent Mac and may have some ideas.
OK, I'm just making a post on an Apple forum about it, will report back. Thanks for all your help everyone! Also, about the interleaving thing - you understand the data more than me - what would you do?
Ask for interleaving to be turned off. If it stays off, you'll gain some speed, if it doesn't, you've lost nothing.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:38:05
Ask for interleaving to be turned off. If it stays off, you'll gain some speed, if it doesn't, you've lost nothing.
Oh right, so if performance depletes they'll revert it automatically without me telling them to? Also, how long does the process take and are you sure it's free? I read somewhere that the ISP pays £5 to BT for it ???
The BT software will kick it back on if it thinks it necessary. It takes 24 hours and I've never heard of a customer being charged for the service - IDNet will look at the line and decide whether it's viable before they contact BT.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 13, 2009, 17:35:30
It looks a bit like an Apple problem, doesn't it.
How dare you! :no: :)x
Cor! ;D
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 13, 2009, 15:22:34
Hi
Just wondering, I was uploading a 30MB file yesterday to my online file storage - however, while uploading, all my internet services stopped: browsing, iPlayer, etc... - internet was unusable, completely - no pages loaded at all. However, strangely, MSN still functioned along with the upload process.
I'm aware that while uploading, the bandwidth takes up some space in the "pipe" and I'd expect downloads to slow down, but I wouldn't expect them to stop completely!
I've got a primarily Wi-Fi setup with various extenders and a reasonable speed (see signature), bar a high-ish ping (any ideas on how to reduce that? ;D).
Just wondering if this happens to anyone else - thanks! ;D ;D
Did you ever get a resolution to this? Mine is now doing virtually the same. Uploads reduce downloads to <50Kb/s. This does not normally happen to me, so I suspect it's a problem in IDNet's or BT's network somewhere. On the day of your original post, I could still download at +4mbps whilst uploading. Now my download is virtually useless until the upload stops, at which point the download immediately goes back to full 6mbps+ speed.
Quote from: Dopamine on Jun 16, 2009, 22:57:04
Did you ever get a resolution to this? Mine is now doing virtually the same. Uploads reduce downloads to <50Kb/s. This does not normally happen to me, so I suspect it's a problem in IDNet's or BT's network somewhere. On the day of your original post, I could still download at +4mbps whilst uploading. Now my download is virtually useless until the upload stops, at which point the download immediately goes back to full 6mbps+ speed.
That's really interesting - can I ask if you're a Mac user too? Also what site are you uploading to? MobileMe as well? I'm trying to diagnose if it's an Apple issue, an IDNet issue or possibly a regional issue.
And no, sadly no resolution as of yet - however, I filed an interleaving request today so I'll see if that makes any difference.
Hope you have better luck than I have with this issue! ;D
I'm a PC user. The problem occurs with every upload I've tried: email, an FTP site I use, and to Photobucket. Downloads slow to a crawl, even a blank Google page takes an age to open. Absolutely nothing else has changed, and it was all working fine earlier today.
Quote from: Dopamine on Jun 16, 2009, 23:09:23
I'm a PC user. The problem occurs with every upload I've tried: email, an FTP site I use, and to Photobucket. Downloads slow to a crawl, even a blank Google page takes an age to open. Absolutely nothing else has changed, and it was all working fine earlier today.
Yep, that's exactly the same as it is for me - any ideas, anyone? I'm guessing it's some sort of outage or performance drop for a few users. ???
Have either of you been 'upgraded' to ADSL2+ today? If so the announcement mentioned on the forum index may be relevent to you.
Quote from: Simon on Jun 16, 2009, 23:22:19
Have either of you been 'upgraded' to ADSL2+ today? If so the announcement mentioned on the forum index may be relevent to you.
Ha, I wish - I am way, way, way out of coverage of ADSL2+ - here are two speed tests I did during, and after a 10MB upload. It's as if my connection can only upload or download, not both, at once. Is that even possible?
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/497309252.png)
During 10MB Upload
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/497309799.png)
After 10MB Upload
Sorry, it defeats me, but someome else may have an answer.
Quote from: Simon on Jun 16, 2009, 23:32:02
Sorry, it defeats me, but someome else may have an answer.
Think it's worth contacting support?
Quote from: Dopamine on Jun 16, 2009, 23:09:23
I'm a PC user. The problem occurs with every upload I've tried: email, an FTP site I use, and to Photobucket. Downloads slow to a crawl, even a blank Google page takes an age to open. Absolutely nothing else has changed, and it was all working fine earlier today.
Just trying to find out what these issues have in common - what browser and router do you use?
Thanks :D
Unless it suddenly improves, I would suggest contacting support. Just be aware that they may well be quite busy tomorrow, with this ADSL2+ fiasco. :)
I'm still plain old ADSL too. I'll be contacting support yet again if this is still happening tomorrow.
In the last 10 minutes my line has improved slightly, with downloads now coming down at between 500-800kbps whilst an email upload is in progress using an idnet.com email address.
Interestingly, if I upload the same email with the same attachment but using my own private domain's email, and bypassing IDNet's smpt server by using smptout.secureserver.net, it uploads at full speed and I can download at full speed too, which would appear to suggest that it's definitely something awry in IDNet's network.
I use Avant browser (IE based) and a Netgear DG834PN, hardwired to the PC I'm on at the moment. Same problem happens with machines connected wirelessly though. Both Vista and XP.
No issue here an plain old ADSL pings are 29ms, uploads are running fine as far as I can see, throughput is 6584 and I am using wireless to my DG834N, all seems ok here :dunno: this is on gw5, I think its just the folks on ADSL2+ with the issues as far as I can see sadly.
Quote from: Gary on Jun 17, 2009, 00:02:16
No issue here an plain old ADSL pings are 29ms, uploads are running fine as far as I can see, throughput is 6584 and I am using wireless to my DG834N, all seems ok here :dunno: this is on gw5, I think its just the folks on ADSL2+ with the issues as far as I can see sadly.
Not the same thing. Speed issues are affecting ADSL2+. My and Netgem21's problem is that we can only upload or download, not do both at the same time.
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 16, 2009, 23:32:54
Think it's worth contacting support?
I think it's worth it. They're Mac people as well.
Quote from: Dopamine on Jun 17, 2009, 00:05:03
Not the same thing. Speed issues are affecting ADSL2+. My and Netgem21's problem is that we can only upload or download, not do both at the same time.
That is most odd, things are fine here, so contacting support would be prudent, odd how some people have issues and some do not, the vagaries of the internet. It's nice and sunny outside though ;)
Below is my speedtest data whilst uploading to mobile me,something's going on looking at the ping result,see signature for earlier result.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/497514646.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Just repeated the test with another upload to mobile me and a completely different result which looks normal whilst an upload is in progress.
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/497517158.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Tried several more speedtests whilst a mobile me upload is in progress the above pattern is repeated for me some normal and others respond with the very long ping time. Whether this is specific to mobile me or due to the fact that an upload is in progress I don't know.
Pings will increase during large downloads, Steve, so it's likely to happen on uploads too I suspect.
I agree you need to able to control the upload bandwidth (like P2P software can)to permit a useable connection, if your upload grabs the majority no other use is possible.
Update:
Contacted support who, after going through all the "try different machine, router" etc., checks which made no difference, are stumped. Apparently it shouldn't be possible for uploads to severely limit downloads. They do though :(
Support are (were) unaware of this thread, so anyone with a similar problem should contact them please.
They've had their hands a bit full this week. :(
Quote from: Dopamine on Jun 17, 2009, 17:59:20
Apparently it shouldn't be possible for uploads to severely limit downloads. They do though :(
I haven't checked every post in this thread so I may have missed something... have you checked that
SysPrefs => Network => Ethernet => Advanced =>Ethernet => Duplex
is set to full-duplex, flow control?
If it's set to half-duplex I'm not sure if it will cause your problems, but it sure won't help!
Where do I find SysPrefs?
I haven't checked it, but the problem is occurring on three different PCs, still occurs when the router is changed to an alternative, is the same on XP and Vista, and only started 24 hours ago. I can't believe it's a machine issue, but anything is worth a try.
Quote from: Dopamine on Jun 17, 2009, 20:46:09
Where do I find SysPrefs?
Ah, I should have read more posts... I thought you had a Mac. Sorry >:(
Just did some post-interleaving-activation speed tests. Here are the results:
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/498613211.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Your DSL connection rate: 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 4920 kbps
Also, I'm still having the problems with upload/download performance.
Your profile hasn't caught up yet, it will move to 7150 over the coming days. I really don't know what to suggest on the performance issue. Do you run something like NetMeter (if there's a Mac equivalent) so that you can see the actual traffic levels?
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 18, 2009, 16:43:20
Also, I'm still having the problems with upload/download performance.
Me too. Support don't understand the problem and are apparently contacting BT. In the meantime, my download speed has dropped badly. BT speed test just showed 2177kbps throughput for a 7150 profile.
What pipe are you on? I'm .net, having been moved from gw6.
Quote from: Dopamine on Jun 18, 2009, 16:53:23
Me too. Support don't understand the problem and are apparently contacting BT. In the meantime, my download speed has dropped badly. BT speed test just showed 2177kbps throughput for a 7150 profile.
What pipe are you on? I'm .net, having been moved from gw6.
I have no idea how to find that out - all I know is that my username ends in .dsl4 ???
That's it, so you're on the DSL4 pipe. :)
Quote from: Simon on Jun 18, 2009, 17:03:07
That's it, so you're on the DSL4 pipe. :)
...Is that good? ???
Quote from: Rik on Jun 18, 2009, 16:49:03
Your profile hasn't caught up yet, it will move to 7150 over the coming days. I really don't know what to suggest on the performance issue. Do you run something like NetMeter (if there's a Mac equivalent) so that you can see the actual traffic levels?
I've emailed support about the performance. The only thing I can show you is traffic over my wireless network - I don't know any software to give me graphs on actual internet speeds.
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5601/picture33p.png)
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 18, 2009, 17:04:32
...Is that good? ???
Sorry, I'm only any good at the bleeding obvious. ;D It seems you're on a different 'pipe' to Dopamine, but I wouldn't like to say what it means.
Quote from: netgem21 on Jun 18, 2009, 17:04:32
...Is that good? ???
Big time, dsl4 is only for the premier customers. ;)
Seriously though, there shouldn't be a difference between the pipes. :)
My gut instinct is that something in the machine is maxing out the processor.
Quote from: Rik on Jun 18, 2009, 17:28:31
My gut instinct is that something in the machine is maxing out the processor.
I've discounted that by uploading with one machine and simultaneously downloading with another. Whenever an upload is in progress, downloads are severely slowed. Absolutely everything has been changed: routers, filters, PCs, operating systems. Very, very frustrating.
I can understand that, Dopamine, it just doesn't make sense. :(
Certainly activity monitor on the mac and task monitor on wibdows will give real time measurements of CPU ativity and which process is using what.
I had very poor speeds on .net yesterday evening until quite late which is unusual. Unfortunately today the prodigal son has returned so P2P is running so unable to comment this evening.
Quote from: Dopamine on Jun 18, 2009, 18:13:48
I've discounted that by uploading with one machine and simultaneously downloading with another. Whenever an upload is in progress, downloads are severely slowed. Absolutely everything has been changed: routers, filters, PCs, operating systems. Very, very frustrating.
Do you know the rate of upload ? From my own line any signifant uploading via P2P has always made my connection unusable.
My upload is always at full speed, around 400kbps.
My .net pipe was showing peak time congestion yesterday evening too, and has been slow this afternoon since about 4:30pm. Support say their network isn't congested, BT say my exchange isn't congested either, so someone is wrong. Presumably, all those moved from gw6 to other pipes must have placed additional burden on those pipes, so does anyone know whether gw6 is back on stream?
I think only IDNet would be able to tell us that, Dopamine. It does seem a very strange problem, even more so that only the two of you (on the forum) seem to have been affected by it, and you're both on different pipes. I can understand the frustration. :(
Also, I don't wanna go starting yet another thread when everyone's here, but I have another problem with my connection ::)
...Although it might be the router I guess.
My MSN client for my Mac, Microsoft Messenger, always, without fail, signs me out at exactly 1 AM every day. I can instantly sign back in, but it's annoying if I'm in a conversation. I've been advised that it may be something to do with my IP address refreshing or being re-allocated. So I thought to combat the issue, I'd use a static IP, but that didn't work - any ideas? ???
Cheers everyone, you're all a great help ;D
Are there any clues in your router log for the MSN drop outs? If it's that quick, I doubt it, and it sounds more like something on your machine. You haven't got any other broadband monitors, network wizards, that sort of thing running, have you? I spent nearly 4 hours at a friends house recently, trying to work out why their connection kept dropping, and it was because they had a Virgin Broadband tool running, which kept interrupting the connection.
Netgem21
With a static ip do you mean MM didn't work at all or still signed out at 01.00. I am thinking along the lines of the relevant ports not being open using a static IP address on the router and you need to set port forwards up for that address.
If your DHCP lease has to be renewed after 24hours or at a certain time presumably you will have to re negotiate a new connection with your router .Must admit not come across this issue on my LAN
dopamine
I am interested to note you had similar issues with .net yesterday so I think that rules out exchange congestion for us both . I too did wonder what would happen with gw6 being faulty and whether I would be experiencing similar congestion issues to what we had last year.
On the upload issue if an upload occupies all of your upstream bandwidth surely you will have no room to transmit page requests etc for other internet use???
Quote from: Simon on Jun 18, 2009, 19:23:23
Are there any clues in your router log for the MSN drop outs? If it's that quick, I doubt it, and it sounds more like something on your machine. You haven't got any other broadband monitors, network wizards, that sort of thing running, have you? I spent nearly 4 hours at a friends house recently, trying to work out why their connection kept dropping, and it was because they had a Virgin Broadband tool running, which kept interrupting the connection.
Doubt it - it happens on every computer I have. As stevethegas said, it's probably something to do with DCHP. I can sign in again instantly, it's just annoying. And it's not a connection drop, because everything else is fine, even other MSN clients.
EDIT - it happens to Sky broadband users too - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=488416
Quote from: stevethegas on Jun 18, 2009, 19:32:40
dopamine
I am interested to note you had similar issues with .net yesterday so I think that rules out exchange congestion for us both . I too did wonder what would happen with gw6 being faulty and whether I would be experiencing similar congestion issues to what we had last year.
On the upload issue if an upload occupies all of your upstream bandwidth surely you will have no room to transmit page requests etc for other internet use???
I too thought that a full speed upload might badly affect the ability to download, but support are adamant that it should have a lot less effect than it is. Whatever it is, it has only been noticeable in the last few days.
As for the congestion, I remain unconvinced that it is not within the IDNet network at peak times. Unfortunately the denial last year by IDNet that there was congestion, and their subsequent admission that there was, means I don't always believe what I'm told any longer.
I too seem recall it took a while for idnet to admit there were issues last year. I can't get involved at present as going away but certainly will not be happy if last nights performance is a recurring theme.
I'm getting the same problem now. I can't upload anything without losing all bandwidth on the downstream.
[EDIT] Having exhausted all possibilities at my end, I've reported this to support and had it added to the list of my ongoing problems :(
Sorry to hear that, Zap. :(
It's an odd one Simon, I've never seen anything like it. I've done some local tests and confirmed that the downstream has 0% throughput.
I'm sure they would have been onto it, but I've referred Support to this thread.
Cheers :thumb:
Thanks Simon.