Maybe it's time for support to start counting these. I've had one overnight outage unexplained, and another that was only explained on this forum at the end of the following day.
Whether there's an explanation seems to depend on how many people complain at the same time. Since some of these outages seem to affect parts of individual exchanges at different times and on different dates, support might maintain a list with details such as.
- time sync/authentication was first lost
- times sync/authentication was lost/restored subsequently
- if authentication was to the wrong (usually BT) IP, how many occurrences, at what times, and were they user-initiated
- time proper sync and authentication were restored for at least one hour of adequate Internet access.
With this kind of documentation, maybe we could hope for some compensation.
Richard
I'd be happy to run a sticky thread to collect such data, Richard. We can supply IP addresses to IDNet so they can identify customers, but it would help if users could also:
1) identify their exchange where possible
2) state which service they are on, ie Max, super Max or WBC
3) indicate what status their router was showing, ie sync but no PPP, no sync etc
4) post router logs where available
Bear in mind that most packages do not come with any form of SLA, therefore compensation is unlikely.
Exchange: Aberdeen Denburn
Product: Home SuperPro (ADSL2+)
Status: Router not connecting, then connecting able to ping WAN IP address, unable to ping WAN gateway or DNS servers. When I was unable to connect I had PPP errors (line still synced at 24Meg(ish))
Logs: No logging yet. Will look in to that tonight.
One other thing is teh support 24x7?
You can leave a message on 0800 710 2000 or 01462 480092, and they will usually respond to loss of service issues, but the offices are not manned (or even womanned) 24/7.
As these seem to be continuing, I think I'll start to play as well. From my previous post, I had the following outages recorded (all times are approximate within a few minutes for clarity, multiple disconnects close to each other are logged as a single incident, and service was restored within a few minutes unless stated otherwise):-
(1) 1.00am on 14th
(2) 2.00am on 14th
(3) 11.00pm on 14th
(4) 2.00am on 15th
(5) 1.00am on 16th
(6) 7.30pm on 18th
(7) 8.30pm on 18th
(8) 9.30pm on 19th (yoyo for about an hour and a half)
(9) 2.00am on 20th
(10) 1.00am on 21st
(11) 11.30pm on 22nd
(12) 4.30am on 23rd
(13) 11.30pm on 23rd
(14) (various others unlogged about rebooting router - 24th Sept to 2nd October)
(15) 22.45pm on 2nd October
(16) 1.00am on 3rd October
(17) 1.30am on 3rd October (remained down until I rebooted my router around 11.00am on 3rd October)
It's significant that the vast majority of these occur in the middle of the night, and absolutely none during the daytime, with just a couple in the evening. Sure looks like BT messing around in the exchange at times they think don't matter to anyone. For completeness I've also attached a graph of the downstream SNR during the last 15 hours or so, which reflects how it is all of the time: around 6.9dB and absolutely rock solid, scarcely fluctuating more than 0.1dB in either direction. I have interleaving switched on by choice as well, which is partly responsible for this extra stability. The loss of sync at the outage times is in no way caused by SNR or line stability, as I think this graphs shows.
[attachment deleted by admin]
I've seen one or two similar instances, but they seem to have introduced new DLM, either at my exchange or the MK node, because I am now running on a 3db target margin, with an observed nm range of 0.3 - 3.1db. That 'extra low' margin setting has allowed me to move to a 4.5Mb profile.
Another BT ambush
Danni's outage, 8 Oct. 2009 (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=16570.0)
Thanks, Richard, so busy on the phone finding out what had happened, I forgot to write it up. :blush:
I don't mind -- I just can't stand them getting away with anything >:D
Richard
;D
A bit late, but just for info:
Tuesday 6th Oct 2009
Didcot exchange, WBC
Loss of PPP at 10:07am, restored at 10:41am
Sync stayed up.
And again- log extract:
2009.10.10 18:57:57 If(PVC1) PPP connection ok !
2009.10.10 18:57:56 PVC1 get IP:212.69.xxx.xxx
2009.10.10 18:57:41 PVC1 start PPP
2009.10.10 18:57:40 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Peer terminate
2009.10.10 18:57:24 PVC1 start PPP
2009.10.10 18:57:21 PVC1 stop PPP
No loss of sync.
At least it was brief this time!
I wonder if this is specific to WBC and changes being made to the network.
Again:
2009.10.14 16:35:21 If(PVC1) PPP connection ok !
2009.10.14 16:35:20 PVC1 get IP:212.69.xxx.xxx
2009.10.14 16:34:48 PVC1 start PPP
2009.10.14 16:34:48 ADSL Media Up !
2009.10.14 16:34:03 PVC1 stop PPP
2009.10.14 16:34:03 ADSL Media Down !
Didcot exchange, WBC, no loss of sync.
I wonder if they are picking on you Bill?!
It seems odd that the outages are so brief... not really long enough for BT to be doing any thing useful, but enough to screw up a download if it happened at the wrong moment :P
Mine remains somewhat erratic. Outages still happen during the evening or night exclusively, but it's getting harder to log. The router is on 24/7 of course, but increasingly I'm needing to reboot the router (=lost log) to get the PPP layer back after it goes down. Had bizarre experience just a few moments ago where I came back from work, found the router on but disconnected, gave it a couple of minutes to find it's own back, which it didn't, actually unplugged the router entirely for 10 minutes, then powered up, still couldn't get a PPP connection, then rebooted the router through the console, and it was fine. ??? Could be a coincidence, but I think I've had to reboot it about half a dozen times this week now. Leaves me wondering whether it's really BT, or whether the router is slowly falling apart. Don't have another one to test with at the moment, but we'll see how it goes anyway.
If you think you have a router problem, IDNet could probably lend you a pre-configured one to test with. :)
Quote from: karvala on Oct 14, 2009, 22:18:12Could be a coincidence
Some time back when I had a Linksys instead of the 3Com, it would lose PPP occasionally, usually on a Saturday morning... I'd give it 20 minutes or so then ring the out of hours number. After a couple of rings, PPP would come back up.
Three times that happened... go figure :eek4:
Seriously I'm inclined to agree with Simon- time to try another router. Get one off eBay and configure it as a straight swap for the one you've got (IP address, open ports etc) and keep it as a spare, doing that has saved my backside a couple of times!
Thanks Simon, that's a good idea. I'll give it until the end of the weekend, when I can monitor it properly during the day, and then give them a call on Monday if it looks like it could be the router.
Meanwhile, just went down again! Noise margins were fine each time it came up, but it just fell over again each time. I've changed the filter and unplugged the phone, which made no difference, and there are no other phone sockets, so I'm quite sure it's not that at least.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:26:46 - LCP down.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:27:02 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:27:02 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:28:02 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:28:02 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:29:02 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:29:02 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:30:03 - Initialize LCP.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:30:03 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Wed, 2009-10-14 21:30:07 - CHAP authentication success
Quote from: Bill on Oct 14, 2009, 22:33:18
Some time back when I had a Linksys instead of the 3Com, it would lose PPP occasionally, usually on a Saturday morning... I'd give it 20 minutes or so then ring the out of hours number. After a couple of rings, PPP would come back up.
Three times that happened... go figure :eek4:
Seriously I'm inclined to agree with Simon- time to try another router. Get one off eBay and configure it as a straight swap for the one you've got (IP address, open ports etc) and keep it as a spare, doing that has saved my backside a couple of times!
Yeah, I have a spare of most computer bits these days (often several), so I should add a decent ADSL router to the spares list. I do have an old one somewhere, I think, but it was pretty poor (Safecom IIRC; super-cheap and acted like it; didn't even support UPnP), so I wouldn't trust it too much for testing purposes, but I guess I could dig it out if I can face rummaging through 5000 boxes of junk. :-\
Quote from: karvala on Oct 14, 2009, 22:37:43I guess I could dig it out if I can face rummaging through 5000 boxes of junk. :-\
Quicker and easier to get one off eBay for about fifteen quid! I think that's what I paid for a Tiscali coded Speedtouch about a year ago... and the reflashing to civilise it was free ;D
Oi Bill, we don't use the T word round here! It brings back bad memories for too many people! :)
Sorry Sir :doh:
Some of us have found the 2700 to be very good, and you can pick them up off eBay for less than 20 quid delivered.
New outage. Lost PPP authentication only.
1440 today Thursday 15 Oct. for about one hour
Support found a fault in my exchange, WEWHAM (Hampstead, London) and did a line test just for the record. No problem with my line or syncs.
Richard
I lost sync (and hence PPP) this morning, it came straight back up but BT have jacked my target SNRM up to 12db (was 9db) :mad:
I'll see if it comes back down on it's own before calling Support, it's been happy at 9db ever since I switched to WBC.
short further loss of sync an hour later, but then in the wee hours of the next day (16 Oct):
Warning 16 days 06:52:04 (since last boot) PPP link up (Internet) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
Info 16 days 06:51:52 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok
Info 16 days 06:51:43 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 16 days 05:36:21 (since last boot) FIREWALL event (1 of 1): created rules
Warning 16 days 05:36:21 (since last boot) PPP link down (Internet) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
This didn't interfere with me, but maybe someone else would have been annoyed. It was more than an hour.
Richard
There were problems reported on my isp as well today and it Hamstead was one of the areas affected so for what its worth I think this was a BT issue
Hope this helps guys
Usual fun for me. It's getting irritating now. Three outages in the last couple of days (none of which needed a router reboot; I think that might be a red herring, though I'll still try another one anyway), and as always, in the evening or at night. Throughout the whole month or more that this has been going on, there hasn't been a single outage during the daytime, either when I'm around and using the connection or not. But almost every day there has been an outage or two in the evening or at night. Almost always for a minute or two only, but coming from a connection that was previously rock solid (would usually not have a single outage in a month), and from one on which the line stats and the voice service remain perfectly okay. There's no increase in noise or anything like that according to my RouterStats logs before the outages happen; it's just as though someone pulls the plug for a couple of minutes, and then plugs it back in. ???
Fri, 2009-10-16 20:24:14 - LCP down.
Fri, 2009-10-16 20:24:40 - Initialize LCP.
Fri, 2009-10-16 20:24:40 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Fri, 2009-10-16 20:24:56 - CHAP authentication success
Sat, 2009-10-17 03:51:49 - LCP down.
Sat, 2009-10-17 03:52:05 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2009-10-17 03:52:05 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2009-10-17 03:53:06 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2009-10-17 03:53:06 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2009-10-17 03:53:09 - CHAP authentication success
Sat, 2009-10-17 21:51:29 - LCP down.
Sat, 2009-10-17 21:51:46 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2009-10-17 21:51:46 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2009-10-17 21:52:46 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2009-10-17 21:52:46 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2009-10-17 21:53:46 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2009-10-17 21:53:46 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2009-10-17 21:54:08 - CHAP authentication success
Quote from: Simon on Oct 14, 2009, 23:30:23
Some of us have found the 2700 to be very good, and you can pick them up off eBay for less than 20 quid delivered.
You mean the Draytek, or some other 2700? Is the Draytek wireless; I have a feeling it isn't?
Sorry, I meant the 2Wire 2700 HGV, often known as the BT Business Hub, an example of which can be found here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Silver-BT-Business-Hub-V-2-0-Brand-new-still-wrapped_W0QQitemZ110444641848QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Computing_NetworkingHubs_RL?hash=item19b7037e38), but I expect there would be plenty of others.
And more fun and games tonight, after another day in which they were no outages until the evening:-
Sun, 2009-10-18 20:37:00 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2009-10-18 20:37:00 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2009-10-18 20:38:00 - Initialize LCP.
Sun, 2009-10-18 20:38:00 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sun, 2009-10-18 20:38:03 - CHAP authentication success
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:09:03 - LCP down.
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:09:10 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:09:10 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:10:10 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:10:10 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:12:10 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:12:10 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:12:24 - CHAP authentication failed
Mon, 2009-10-19 01:12:24 - LCP down.
[Reboot here]
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:18 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:18 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:29 - CHAP authentication failed
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:00:29 - LCP down.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:01:18 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:01:18 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:01:32 - CHAP authentication failed
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:01:32 - LCP down.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:02:03 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:02:03 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:02:18 - CHAP authentication failed
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:02:18 - LCP down.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:03:03 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:03:03 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:03:22 - CHAP authentication failed
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:03:22 - LCP down.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:04:03 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:04:03 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:04:21 - CHAP authentication failed
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:04:21 - LCP down.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:05:03 - Initialize LCP.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:05:03 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Sat, 2000-01-01 00:05:08 - CHAP authentication success
This actually helps emphasise one point: although some re-syncs occur in the middle of the outages, the outages *always* start with a loss of the PPP layer. The outage is never caused by a loss of sync, and never coincides with any change in noise or attenuation level or anything like that. In this case, we see authentication problems as well, further reinforcing the message that this is fundamentally a PPP problem, and not a line (and probably not a router) problem. What could cause such a problem, characterised by a number of intermittent PPP outages, only ever during the evening and night, never related to noise or attenuation and never preceded by a loss of sync? ???
In a word, BT. But that is only for the late night ones. For the early evenings, my guess would be some sort of exchange fault. :dunno:
Quote from: Lance on Oct 19, 2009, 07:05:21
In a word, BT. But that is only for the late night ones. For the early evenings, my guess would be some sort of exchange fault. :dunno:
Sounds plausible. I accidentally ;D reported a line fault to BT a few days ago as it happens, as no satellite or precarrier numbers seemed to work one day when I came home from work, and I couldn't believe they were all down. As it turns out, they all were down, when I got round to checking with my mobile afterwards (oops :blush:), and sure enough once they worked on the mobile, they worked on the landline again, so it wasn't really a fault at all. But guess what? BT agreed that yes, there was a fault on the line, and 24hrs later claimed to have identified the non-existent fault and fixed it! Methinks someone there is being less than honest with me....
Meanwhile, back at the farm :D, I have kept the router unplugged all day today to give it a rest and ensure that my connection is totally reset as far as the PPP layer goes. Plugged it in again now, so we'll see what happens in the small hours. :fingers:
That's interesting, and will be even more so following another night of logs.
Another outage:
Alan from N.I. (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=16753.0)
It appears that the North Channel is no barrier to BT's shennanigans.
Richard
Thanks for keeping this updated, Richard. :thumb:
And again... partial log:
2009.10.25 17:18:20 If(PVC1) PPP connection ok !
2009.10.25 17:18:18 PVC1 get IP:212.69.xxx.xxx
2009.10.25 17:17:56 PVC1 start PPP
2009.10.25 17:17:56 Dial On Demand(PVC1)
2009.10.25 17:17:56 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Peer terminate
2009.10.25 17:17:54 PVC1 start PPP
.
.
.
2009.10.25 17:11:51 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Peer terminate
2009.10.25 17:11:39 PVC1 start PPP
2009.10.25 17:11:39 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Timeout in CHAP negotiation
2009.10.25 17:11:09 PVC1 start PPP
2009.10.25 17:11:09 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Timeout in CHAP negotiation
2009.10.25 17:10:47 PVC1 start PPP
2009.10.25 17:10:47 ADSL Media Up !
2009.10.25 17:10:15 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Timeout in CHAP negotiation
2009.10.25 17:10:02 ADSL Media Down !
2009.10.25 17:09:51 PVC1 start PPP
2009.10.25 17:09:48 PVC1 stop PPP
I happened to be at the router at the time and saw the lights... PPP went down before I lost sync, so I'm blaming BT playing about :mad:
Me too (exchange WEWHAM, Hampstead, London)
When I got the log, I also saw another outage I missed 4 days ago. Notice the connection today to the useless BT authentication IP, 172.xxx.xxx.xxx.
Warning 25 days 21:00:43 (since last boot) PPP link up (Internet) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
Info 25 days 21:00:43 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok
Info 25 days 21:00:42 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:51:37 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:50:26 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:50:19 (since last boot) FIREWALL event (1 of 1): created rules
Warning 25 days 20:50:19 (since last boot) PPP link down (Internet) [172.16.8.238]
Info 25 days 20:46:54 (since last boot) FIREWALL event (1 of 1): deleted rules
Warning 25 days 20:46:54 (since last boot) PPP link up (Internet) [172.16.8.238]
Info 25 days 20:46:54 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok
Info 25 days 20:46:40 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:46:05 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:45:31 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:44:58 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:44:19 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:43:40 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 25 days 20:43:27 (since last boot) FIREWALL event (1 of 1): created rules
Warning 25 days 20:43:27 (since last boot) PPP link down (Internet) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
Info 21 days 07:21:32 (since last boot) FIREWALL event (1 of 1): deleted rules
Warning 21 days 07:21:32 (since last boot) PPP link up (Internet) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
Info 21 days 07:21:19 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Chap receive success : authentication ok
Info 21 days 07:21:01 (since last boot) PPP CHAP Receive challenge (rhost = bras-red2.l-nws)
Info 21 days 05:35:09 (since last boot) FIREWALL event (1 of 1): created rules
Warning 21 days 05:35:08 (since last boot) PPP link down (Internet) [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
Richard
Lost service about half an hour ago (16.20), and all I could get was a BT Wholesale website on whatever links I clicked on saying the connection circuit was faulty and I was either doing a line test (I wasn't) or, well to be honest there were 5 options.
I didn't get the red internet light on my Netgear 834v4 router, it just went off for a few seconds and then came back on green but could only access the page mentioned about.
Rebooted the router, but no luck, did a full restart of PC and router and it fixed the problem.
I've never seen this fault page from BT Wholesale before. Is it something new?
One of our LNS server had a wobble this evening. We have rectified the issue and are investigating the cause. Apologies for the inconvenience.
Regards
Simon
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 25, 2009, 17:05:16
One of our LNS server had a wobble this evening.
Now if you can explain how that caused me to lose sync... :P
You shouldn't keep tripping over the cable Bill. ;D
Quote from: bridgej on Oct 25, 2009, 16:55:55
Lost service about half an hour ago (16.20), and all I could get was a BT Wholesale website on whatever links I clicked on saying the connection circuit was faulty and I was either doing a line test (I wasn't) or, well to be honest there were 5 options.
I didn't get the red internet light on my Netgear 834v4 router, it just went off for a few seconds and then came back on green but could only access the page mentioned about.
Rebooted the router, but no luck, did a full restart of PC and router and it fixed the problem.
I've never seen this fault page from BT Wholesale before. Is it something new?
I had problems around the same sort of time - about 16.10.
I was still synced, but had no active connection to the net (i.e, my downstream connection speed was reporting as normal, but there was no IP address displayed in my Router config). Rebooting the router didn't fix things, but I was back online 10minutes later.
I experienced the same sort of situation on Thursday at about 17.05pm, returning at around 17.25pm. However, since that incident my download speeds have been hit dramatically - currently less than 300kb/sec when before they were around 650kb/sec. My sync speed hasn't changed though ???
Krands :welc: :karma: It sounds like it maybe related to the problem that Simon posted about earlier, give support a call in the morning, they should be able to see any problems on your line.
:welc: :karma: Krands.
Thanks for the welcome guys ;D
My noise margin had increased to 10 after those incidents, but today it's back down to 7. Anyway, after rebooting the router today things are back to normal :)
Glad to hear it. :thumb:
:welc: :karma:
I wonder, this seems like the right place...
My connection has been down for around 85 hours and counting (PPP times out, sync is stable) since around 2009-10-29 0300. Currently using a mobile phone connection to check for updates when I found this forum. Getting expensive...
Anyway... contacted support and was told it had been escalated to BT; chasing that 6-7 hours later I was told it was still with BT and might take up to 48 hours to fix (long past that now). Does anyone know an independent way of confirming the status of network faults? IDNet's site seems to always show a green status. None of the BT status pages give any clue there is a problem in my area, though do list a problem in another area at the time of posting. Asked for another update on Saturday, but haven't heard anything back yet (presumably because there isn't anything to tell me or no one is fielding email at the weekend).
Anyone know how long BT normally take to resolve this sort of thing? Would it be fixed quicker if it has gone down on a Tuesday rather than a Thursday I wonder...
Hi Phil and welcome to the forum. :welc: :karma:
PPP down could be BT work or an issue with your login. Have you tried phoning support, no connection is treated as an emergency and will be dealt with over the weekend. There's no way of checking independently, you need support to do it for you. As to timescale, it depends on what's failed. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
:welc: :karma: Phil, once you resolve your problem we hope you stay.
Ah, I see, thanks. I figured it was already being dealt with so hadn't left a phone message before. I have left one now so we'll see what happens.
:welc: :karma: Phil. Hope things are resolved for you soon.
:welc: :karma:
I hope things get sorted soon. :fingers:
Lost the internet this morning although the ADSL light remained on at about 9:15am.
Powered down for 5 mins and then rebooted and all seems ok for now
Possibly BT work, check with support.
Short PPP outage, 10 minutes, 00:30 Wednesday, 18 November.
Long, 4 hour outage, early hours of 20/11, BT scheduled work.
My line seems to have just dropped off the net a minute or two ago. 11am :(
Might be the router, will look into it.
Call support if the router checks out, there may be a BT outage.
More basic than that... looks like the entire area is in blackout :-\
I guess I can't even blame BT this time! ;)
:(
Any news on outages around Oldham? I lost PPP about an hour ago and, despite a router reboot - it isn't back. Powered the router down now (and plugged my mobile phone in - thank heavens I get a data allowance).
Sync remained, just PPP gone.
Steve
Not heard anything, Steve, sorry.
I've spoken to support since it's continued into today. Seems they are seeing errors on the upstream which could be causing it. They'll ask BT to check at the exchange just as a safeguard but suggested a local problem. Since the filtered faceplate is still quite new, I've swapped the router for the Netgear for now to see if that helps. If not, it's time to find a working micro-filter and try the test socket.
I hate network problems - they are so hard to diagnose. (Remember my last major upset was caused by a noisy monitor - if it was my only monitor how would I have ever known. That took three months to identify - hoping this one will be considerably faster)
Steve
:fingers:
Loss of PPP at one minute past midnight, lasted 45 minutes... sync stayed up.
Didcot exchange, WBC
2009.11.26 00:46:02 If(PVC1) PPP connection ok !
2009.11.26 00:46:01 PVC1 get IP:212.69.xxx.xxx
2009.11.26 00:45:44 PVC1 start PPP
2009.11.26 00:45:43 If(3) PPP Dial timeout :< 52000
2009.11.26 00:44:51 PVC1 start PPP
2009.11.26 00:44:51 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Timeout in CHAP negotiation
2009.11.26 00:44:23 PVC1 start PPP
2009.11.26 00:44:23 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Peer terminate
2009.11.26 00:44:05 PVC1 start PPP
2009.11.26 00:44:04 If(3) PPP Dial timeout :< 52000
2009.11.26 00:43:12 PVC1 start PPP
2009.11.26 00:43:12 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Timeout in LCP negotiation
.
.
.
2009.11.26 00:01:53 PVC1 start PPP
2009.11.26 00:01:53 If(PVC1) PPP fail : Timeout in LCP negotiation
2009.11.26 00:01:03 PVC1 start PPP
2009.11.26 00:00:59 PVC1 stop PPP
Sounds like BT work, Bill.
Approx 10 hour outage from 19:08hrs 18/12/09 until approx 05:00hrs 19/12/09
As yet unexplained. Could sync to exchange just fine, however had red internet light.
If your 21CN via Peterborough , its been playing up
yeah i believe it is :(
That 5am fits with the BT clearance pattern, Jonathan.
Repeated loss of sync can be a line problem. Our IDNet ADSL is on a line in rural NW Wales. It's a few miles from the exchange, with sync speeds of about 2.5–3 Mbps (2Mbps IP Profile). There's what I think is a dud joint about a km from one end (there's a notch in the response of the line at about 279kHz) which sometimes causes crackling on the line. We had BT out to it a few years ago, but the engineer reckoned it would take too much time to find the bad joint.
The trick to fix things when the crackling caused disconnections was to pick up the phone, dial a single digit to clear the dial tone, then wait for the loop current through the joint to clear the gunk. You can hear the crackling dying away as the joint is "wetted". The ADSL would then resync and be happy for a few hours or days.
The problem for IDNet is that if they call out a BT OpenReach engineer to an intermittent ADSL fault, the engineer may not be able to reproduce it ("no fault found"), and the ISP is hit with a hefty call-out fee.
Which they will generally have to pass on to the customer.
Quote from: Rik on Dec 19, 2009, 11:03:34
Which they will generally have to pass on to the customer.
And at about £150 per engineer visit, the customer is not happy. (I forget the exact figure. I last used WOOSH and the horrible Siebel front-end several years ago. My RSA keyfob died about a year ago.)
It's £160+VAT now. :(
I was quoted £120 when I rang for a friend a couple of months ago. :dunno:
Curious...
Staff discount
:lol:
You never know.
No, neither of us work for BT. ;D
Was it voice or ADSL, Simon?
No dial tone, so reported it as a voice fault.
That may be cheaper. :)
Well, it was a problem in the green box anyway, so they didn't have to pay.
Quote from: Simon on Dec 19, 2009, 12:10:42
No dial tone, so reported it as a voice fault.
The last "no dial tones" I had involved the phone wires being physically severed on the BT side. The first one by a multipair cable falling off the telegraph poles on a stormy day (fixed same day on a Saturday), and the second by a tree growing up through the drop cable (fixed next business day).
Another 3 hour outage from 02:20 to 05:20
Presumably BT working on the troublesome Peterborough node.
Also had a brief outage of approx an hour at about 19:15 last night.
Best bet would be to have a word with support tomorrow, Jonathan. They'll be able to see what your line has been doing.
Yeah I may well do, although they have already told me about the Peterborough node being a bit sketchy, so I may see if it gets sorted out over the next couple of weeks before I hassle support too much.
I may just give them a quick ring in the morning to make sure it was Peterborough first.
The trouble with Peterborough is that BT are being very sketchy. :(
I have the same Peterborough node problem here (confirmed by Support), a lost or very flaky connection in the evenings and overnight for several nights in succession last week. I also thought it might be the router for a couple of days - though the connection was fine during the day - until the loss kept recurring at around the same time, it was around 7.00 p.m. last night, like PuncH.
Thanks for letting us know, Sarah. I wish I knew what BT are up to with Peterborough, and why it's taking so long to fix. :(
Same here Rik.
It's seriously affecting my xboxing! :o
Get a meeting with Ian Livingstone and do some real boxing instead. ;)
Rik I guess you may have seen this post about this Peterborough node on the AAISP blog, Friday: 21CN-BRAS-RED1-PE (http://aaisp.blogspot.com/2009/12/open-21cn-bras-red1-pe.html)
It seems they have got some people back on-line with a work-around of sorts, though not something I understand. As mentioned here the connection has been down earlier each day, lost altogether in my experience, not just flaky packet loss, so now anticipating losing it, ouch :(
If you do, Sarah, then call suport - loss of service is considered an emergency and is dealt with as such.
I've called support 3 times over the weekend without response, which is a bit dissapointing.
I'm now anticipating losing my connection is about an hour.
I'll look into that, Jonathan.
So far so good...
(talk about tempting fate!)
Hi PuncH
Everytime I've checked your connection it has been live. We can report an intermittent fault to BT when the Helpdesk opens tomorrow morning but in the meantime there's not much we can do I'm afraid.
Regards
Simon
The wonders of intermittent faults. :bawl:
Thanks for dropping in, Simon. :)
Thanks for the messages Simon.
I think I'm just a little unfortunate that my connection appears to be routed through the troublesome Peterborough node, however so far so good tonight :)
Quick update...
Connection was fine up until just after 11pm when it went down again, presumably for more work at Peterborough. No loss of sync, just ppp.
I wasn't using my connection last night so not sure when it failed, but certainly it was down around midnight when I checked, and is back fine this morning.
Another ongoing thread here: ADSL24 Forum (http://adsl24.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=104482) where a fix date of January 13th is mentioned ...
A&A have the same fix date too, Sarah
A full month, it makes you wonder what on earth has failed.
Indeed, does this indicate they do or they don't know what's failed?
They aren't saying, but given what's happened before, my suspicion would be that they've updated the BRAS there, and got it wrong. Wolverhampton had a similar issue earlier in the year.
1) Exchange - SSALM
2) service - WBC
3) sync but no PPP
4) Down 21:30 (approx) 15th Jan, Back up 02:34 16th Jan
Steve
Hi Steve
I can't check with support to be certain, but I can't see any BT issues on the sources I do have. It's an odd time for BT work to be going on, so I'd suggest you drop support an email so that they can look into it.
Hi all,
I am getting a no connection situation pretty well every day over the last 2 weeks or so.This results in having to re-boot the router every time,and things appear normal for a day or so.
Is it possible that my router is on the blink?,how long do they normally last?,I have a netgear 834g.
I recently installed the latest firmware.
All suggestions gratefully received.
Regards Alan
It could be a multitude of issues which is no help I know. Did you upgrade to the latest firmware because you were having problems then? They don't last forever and also the power supplies can fail and cause issues you described. If you can swap/borrow an adslrouter you can confirm whether yours is the root of the problem.
Hi all i have been having problems the last few weeks where i am losing connection sometimes this happens at night so i am not aware of it but it does happen at least once a day .
I am running a Netgear dg834g which has been rock solid before this.
The weird stats i notice when it disconnects are the downstream noise margin jumps
last week or so it has been
Noise Margin 2147483647 db
Noise Margin 2147483646 db
Noise Margin 2147483646 db
so any ideas whats going on ? and why does it jump to the same number each time ?
--- edit Just checked that number is a negative number that model reports----
Normal stats below
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 990 1163 0 497 1840 00:04:49
LAN 10M/100M 2159 2051 0 2968 952 00:05:38
WLAN 11M/54M 0 0 0 0 0 00:00:00
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 20874 kbps 1001 kbps
Line Attenuation 15 db 3.5 db
Noise Margin 3 db 7 db
Sorry, I know this will be of no help, but I think the 'large' Noise Margin figure actually means it went less than zero, but it can't do minuses. I have no idea what that means, though, but someone will be along soon who does. :)
Even less help, as you found that out while I was typing! ;D
lol cheers anyway mate :)
Noise or interference is causing the disconnection, your noise margin is 3 so when the level of noise increases to greater than 3 your connection drops. This more likely to happen at night as radio waves which affect adsl2+ travel further at night time. I am surprised that if this is happening frequently that the MSAN at the exchange has not raised your margin to cope with additional noise. ADSL2+ is more susceptible to noise than adslmax. Check with support to see if they have any advice to offer and look at your own phone wiring to see if you can improve things i.e bell wire ,flat extension leads, DECT phones and sky boxes all of which can cause problems with a broadband signal.
I haven't added anything to the setup and don't have sky etc , will have a wee look at my setup see if i can adjust it .
Thanks for the replies :)
Getting total loss of service at this moment. I have a brand new router due to this problem occuring in the past, and i've tested my house cabling (all twisted pair) and ADSL Nation faceplate.
Router is a Cisco/Linksys WAG320N, and the internet light on that has gone out a number of times, and the dsl light next to it has un-illuminated and relit as though re-establishing a link a number of times also.
This happened last night too around 18:00hrs.. but tonight after a full day of stable use, the problems start again.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I'm sure not buying another router thats for sure. :/
Call the support number, state that you have no service, the problem should be picked up. 0800 7012000
Apparently this effected my sister last night too, with them not being able to resolve any DNS. I was playing a single player game most of last night, so didn't notice anything.
last night at exactly 6.15pm after an entire day of uninterrupted internet use, suddenly I then get total loss of service.
My router (Cisco/LinkSys WAG320N) was set to multi-mode, and have set this now to G.DMT to see if this helps as i'd read on some webpage somewhere this helped some folk with their problems. All my other settings on it match that as suggested by
My router is upstairs in my spare room where the computer is, and the cabling is all twisted pair, and the master socket is one of the ADSLnation plates that Rik put me onto.
I live beside a railway line, but at the time of the disconnect no trains passed or were due either.
Now, i did actually ring BT last night, and when i rang them i noticed i was getting static white noise on my voice call to them, and they suggested i plug my phone into the master socket behind the plate to test.. when i did this .. no static.. and it was a clear line.. however when i plugged the adslnation plate back in and just reconnected the phone and the twisted pair cable that runs up stairs for the router, the line was still clear even when data was downloading on my connection.
Does anyone have any suggestions? as to what could be causing the 'noise' i was hearing on the voice call as its likely this noise may well be what is forcing my resyncs?
Most likely, a poor joint on the line somewhere.
When i rang bt and the line was clear from the master socket, they just instantly jumped on it being my internal wiring, which was what i replaced last time to the twisted pair and the adslnation plate.
Is it possible do you think that it is my cabling.. again? i've already replaced the router so I would hope that is now ruled out.
The only way to check is to move to the test sockets.
I had no ppp connection from 00:12 BST so about 01:23 BST today.
I thought it was just me... PPP went AWOL from 00:07 to 02:17 last night.
I've been getting PPP drops for a while now, a couple of times a week, never before midnight (yet) and usually for a matter of minutes only. I've been assuming it's BT faffing about.
It sounds like BT, Bill. They start planned works at midnight.
Sorry, you're right, it was 0123 UTC, ie. 0223 BST. Looks like it was the same thing then.
Quote from: Rik on May 26, 2010, 10:56:35
It sounds like BT, Bill. They start planned works at midnight.
"BT" and "planned" in the same post?
You need to take more water with it :P
;D
Call me stupid, but shouldn't there be a message somewhere on a BT site in the depths of the internet that says they turned <x> off for <y> minutes, even if it's only *after* the technician tripped over the cable in a coffee-deprived delirium?
Quote from: esh on May 26, 2010, 15:39:08
Call me stupid, but shouldn't there be a message somewhere on a BT site in the depths of the internet that says they turned <x> off for <y> minutes, even if it's only *after* the technician tripped over the cable in a coffee-deprived delirium?
Should but sadly don't. Unless they've recently changed their methods and actually informed the ISPs involved. The only way I've ever seen this information is if there have been issues raised by an ISP and BT have actually bothered replying to the ISP, who then update their status pages.
Quote from: esh on May 26, 2010, 15:39:08
Call me stupid, but shouldn't there be a message somewhere on a BT site in the depths of the internet that says they turned <x> off for <y> minutes, even if it's only *after* the technician tripped over the cable in a coffee-deprived delirium?
BT email ISPs with planned engineering works, but often the day after. :eyebrow:
Have been experiencing packet loss since 11am. With one minute quality sample averages, it is 0.3% mean, 4.0% max.
I think packat Loss of 4% will allow IDNet to report a circuit fault. give siupport a ring.
Thanks, I will monitor for a while, but that's good to know. If it doesn't clear up I will certainly report it. I have checked the aaisp list but I don't see anything particularly out of the ordinary there. Funny, I thought things felt slightly slow earlier, and I check the router graphs and I was right. Will report back when I know more.
I had similar ossies where I was seeing random server not found messages when browsing so Zen set up a ping test to check connectivity between their edge router and my router.
Over the 4 days they didn't see anything so put it down to heavy load on the exchange
So there was a spike at 11am, then most of the consistent loss occurs between 11:30 and 2pm, then it clears up with another spike at 5pm. I guess my exchange is getting chocked up :( Didn't get this in the past but I guess it is to be expected...
I should point out I noticed the issues with my link on a weekend during the world cup.
I just lost service a few minutes ago. ADSL is still synced but can't logon.
Yep, it's dead. Someone has made a thread on this...
Both hostlinks went down at 19.20 we await BT
Almost finished downloading my daily backup, a huge file and then it went down. Duh
Just come back up at about 01:45am on Monday... that's quite an outage!!!!
Quote from: Bill on Oct 11, 2010, 01:52:54
Just come back up at about 01:45am on Monday... that's quite an outage!!!!
Agreed, but at least its back up now :)
I found out something I didn't know before too- if iTunes can't reach the internet (in case it needs DRM authorisation) it errs on the safe side and won't let you play anything via the Apple TV :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Quote from: Bill on Oct 11, 2010, 02:04:37
I found out something I didn't know before too- if iTunes can't reach the internet (in case it needs DRM authorisation) it errs on the safe side and won't let you play anything via the Apple TV :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
its abit stupid really, I used to have a router that had a control panel that didn't want to load if there was no internet connection.. whats the point in that? ;D
Wasn't designed by a company called Chocolate Teapots was it? ;D
Not sure if it helps but my internet went off about 7.30 last night, was off until past midnight, was back up at 9am this morning though. I am In uttoxeter / staffordshire. Router was green for ADSL but red for connection to IDnet.
Both links from BT into IDNet went down from 19.20 last night
See http://www.idnet.net/support/status.jsp
any hope of some sort of compo for every one involved.
And I dont just mean the end user
Prob not as it was only down for a relatively short time.
A few years ago a line card failed at my exchange just when I was being upgraded to ADSL Max, it took BT a week to fix it and they closed the fault on their side 2 days after it was reported but luckily the ISP was monitoring my connection and could see I had no sync so they followed it up with BT management.
It came back up on a Saturday so I mailed and asked what they were planning to do to compensate me for the inconvenience, they gave me a free month. ;D
I only moved from them as their network was becoming more and more congested at peak times.
I have to agree, Mitch. Inconvenient as it was, a six-hour outage probably isn't going to get much, if any, compensation. The most important things for IDNet right now are finding out how this could have happened and then how it can be prevented from happening again.
Diverse feeds from separate BT kit might be a start.
That would bump costs sky high, though.
Would of thought it would be standard when provisioning these type of connections otherwise it makes having the backup a bit redundant.
BT don't plan for failure. That they achieve it regularly is to be commended, therefore. :evil:
When I log into my Idnet account page the latest status message reads.......... IDNet Notification
2010-10-10 20:21:Announcement - Both our Primary and Backup Broadband links into BT are currently down. BT are aware of the failure and are investigating. We do not as yet have a time estimate from them for a fix. We will provide an update as soon as we get one.
Not very accurate.
It will be soon. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Oct 11, 2010, 16:03:17
I have to agree, Mitch. Inconvenient as it was, a six-hour outage probably isn't going to get much, if any, compensation. The most important things for IDNet right now are finding out how this could have happened and then how it can be prevented from happening again.
true yes but 6 hour outage for how many customers for IDNet? soon mounts up.If BT get away with it for the same amount of time/people again.
they have every one by the balls really
Well, by my reckoning, the compensation - assuming it was purely a refund of the downtime - would work out at 10-20p/head, Baz.
I think if your connectivity is critical to your business it is probably best to have two ADSL links if possible (one BT based and one LLU) to give you a little insurance.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 11, 2010, 19:10:41
Well, by my reckoning, the compensation - assuming it was purely a refund of the downtime - would work out at 10-20p/head, Baz.
Have BT provided any reason for the outage of both links?
Quote from: JohnH on Oct 11, 2010, 21:06:45
Have BT provided any reason for the outage of both links?
QuoteNetwork Status2010-10-11 08:10: BT have admitted that someone removed the configuration for our circuits yesterday. We and demanded that they investigate why this happened, what safeguards will now be put in place to ensure that it can't happen again and why it took them so long to resolve the issue.
2010-10-11 01:46: Service has now been restored. We are demanding a full explanation from BT.
2010-10-10 23:59: BT confirm both circuits tested OK. They are now diagnosing their internal network routing.
2010-10-10 22:18: BT now have engineers onsite in the Exchange diagnosing the problem.
2010-10-10 20:21: Both our Primary and Backup Broadband links into BT are currently down. BT are aware of the failure and are investigating. We do not as yet have a time estimate from them for a fix. We will provide an update as soon as we get one.
Thanks. I was looking for something in 'Service Announcements' but all it says there is that service has been restored and an explanation demanded.
I have to admit that when it went down last night and I was trying to access via Blackberry, I didn't know exactly where to look. It would be good if this could be clearly defined for the future.
I think the safeguard would be to fire whoever doesn't know how to do their job, that caused this in the first place.
Quote from: JohnH on Oct 11, 2010, 21:15:26
I have to admit that when it went down last night and I was trying to access via Blackberry, I didn't know exactly where to look. It would be good if this could be clearly defined for the future.
Simon (from IDNet) posted under Service Announcements, and we did put the news banner up, but you may not have seen that if accessing using the wap interface, John. As is the nature of these events, information does tend to get fragmented over different threads, but we did try to keep all of the relevant information in the one or two threads. Any ideas on how this could be done better would be more than happily received. :)
When the outage first happened, the first thing I did was to check all my own kit and even swapped the router just in case.
At this stage, I was still unsure whether it was a local outage or something more far-reaching.
Via Blackberry, I went to the logical place on Netters - 'Service Announcements' but found it difficult because of the large number of threads (remembering that the screen size is minimal).
I did eventually find the BT Service Outage notice, but it did not have a date on it and only the outage time of 19:20 gave me the clue that this was indeed the one I was experiencing. I do think it would be good if all the legacy service threads could be removed (most of which are locked anyway, which is difficult to decipher on a BB) and that a date be put alongside current thread titles in this section.
By the way, when you log into the portal, it is still showing that an outage is under way.
I know all of this depends on the goodwill and hard work of you admin guys, so please don't take it the wrong way.
I am full of admiration for what you do. ;)
For me, by far the most important place to find the outage report is in a recorded message on the Technical Support phone number. Indeed, idnet management did put a message there and I am grateful for that. If the idnet service is down, I have no other means of accessing the internet (without driving 15 miles to the nearest internet cafe!). I have no blackberry, no dial up modem and no WAP access. A quick call to the tech support number was all I needed to hear the recorded message. I had done a quick check of my router but hearing the support message stopped me making unnecessary changes. I only phoned the support line once, after the service had been down for about two hours. But I would hope that the message was recorded as soon as management were aware of a problem. It would be helpful to update such messages with an estimate of time to fix, if this is available. I appreciate that, in this case, no such estimate was available.
This forum, the service status page and my own portal login are where I come after service is resumed to look for a more detailed explanation of the problem.
I have to confess that I did not have the support number handy and didn't think to look it up on their website via BB. :slap:
I have all support numbers in my email client's address book. I go there to find the email address, phone number and anything else that might be useful, like service hours.
welcome to the forum, armadillo.
:karma:
... and another! :welc:
Oh, and by the way, I have all of the support numbers in my phone contacts. :)
Here we go again. Another total loss of service. Both connections have sync but all I'm getting is the BT Wholesale screen.
I'm back on ADSL after a very long power down ::)
Now ADSL has lost sync and FTTC is back up :mad:
And now both lines are down. I give up.
Think its time to phone support in the morning zap :-\
I bet there's a BT engineer in the exchange saying "now he has internet, now he doesn't, now he does, now he doesn't" ;D
Quote from: armadillo on Oct 11, 2010, 22:34:04
For me, by far the most important place to find the outage report is in a recorded message on the Technical Support phone number.
Agreed.
I don't have any (convenient) alternate internet access either. I noticed it was down after about half an hour, after I'd checked that it didn't seem to be at my end I rang the support number. That would have been about 45 minutes after the outage started, the message was there by that time.
Hi Armadillo. :welc: :karma:
Quote from: JohnH on Oct 11, 2010, 22:21:55
By the way, when you log into the portal, it is still showing that an outage is under way.
Now fixed, John.
:welc: :karma: Armadillo
Quote from: Bill on Oct 12, 2010, 08:50:21
Agreed.
rang the support number. That would have been about 45 minutes after the outage started, the message was there by that time.
Good - glad to know the message was there so quickly.
Also, thanks to all for the welcome. I use armadillo as my handle for anything to do with computers. I am armadillo on the think broadband forums too. Used to post a lot but not much nowadays. I migrated to idnet just under a month ago and I am pleased with my new pastures.
:welc: :karma: armadillo
20/10/2010 10:59 BST, PPPoE went down for about 1 minute.
I can confirm this ^
Mine is still down :(
Ip address given : 172.16.36.83
Quote from: psp83 on Oct 20, 2010, 11:05:38
Mine is still down :(
Ip address given : 172.16.36.83
Have 2 circuits wih IDNet, just lost them both. 1 was back up within a minute and is functioning normally, the other is still down showing an IP of 172.16.9.64, unfortunately thisis the one that runs a critical database and currently has our email delivered to it :(
The 0800 cannot connect my call (Overloaded) and the 01603 is engaged so no way to contact support although I'm sure they are aware of the problem anyway.
It's going to make it hard for me to convince the powers-that-be to move any more circuits over - our Easynet and BT circuits have never fallen over in more than 3 years
am down too- this is getting quite common these days :'(
Mine went down at the same time and is still down. PPoE came back up within a minute, but I still have no internet access. Tried power-cycling network & routers, but no joy.
Phone line is busy so can't even get an update or eta when it's going to be back up :(
Web Mail seems down as well.
Reports "Server error Unknown"
Web Mail now working!
Oh what fun..........................
We have yet another BT service failure this morning affecting around 50&% of lines. BT are aware and are investigating.
Idnet are aware this taken from their website
2010-10-20 11:24: We have yet another BT service failure this morning affecting around 50&% of lines. BT are aware and are investigating.
2010-10-20 11:24: We have yet another BT service failure this morning affecting around 50&% of lines. BT are aware and are investigating.
Yep, no connection here too. :(
All seems fine here in Sussex.
BT are complete ****.
Sorry for the language!
I was going to say, it seems awfully like the embarrassing cock up a week or so ago regarding the hostlinks, especially with people getting odd IPs. I realise it's not usually IDNet's policy to be quite as abrasive as AAISP but a few harsh words are probably in order now...
Yep - two lines here... home and office. Office (where I'm currently went down briefly but came back up pretty quickly - thankfully), but the home line is still down as confirmed by my Thinkbroadband ping:
Home
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/d61c677a77b2bea640cc5401a183b5ac.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/d61c677a77b2bea640cc5401a183b5ac.html)
Office - you can see the downtime in red (very thin line)
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/fb61cbda7e641dee6ef7353322a8bc40.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/fb61cbda7e641dee6ef7353322a8bc40.html)
Just had a text from my daughter telling me it's down at home as well, not such a problem as it is at work but a pain anyway :(
If it doesn't come back up soon then that's my deadline missed for getting a site live for a client.
Going to start looking for a cheap second ISP today I think as a backup.
I've always defended IDnet, but this is getting silly now. And yes I don't know the in and outs of it all, I just know I am without a service (again) and I pay more than some of my friends, which I don't mind if it's a good service most of the time
psp83: If there is cable in your area it makes sense as a backup as this will not be prone to simultaneous "general" BT faults with your IDNet line.
Mine's down too
Quote from: esh on Oct 20, 2010, 11:50:14
psp83: If there is cable in your area it makes sense as a backup as this will not be prone to simultaneous "general" BT faults with your IDNet line.
We don't have cable in this area so we are stuck with bt :(
I would most likely go with talk talk llu as a backup. My sister & mate is with them and doesn't get any problems.
Well, this is the second outage in a matter of weeks now. Unacceptable.
Off to Zen, see ya! ;D
Quote from: Tina on Oct 20, 2010, 11:49:45
I've always defended IDnet, but this is getting silly now. And yes I don't know the in and outs of it all, I just know I am without a service (again) and I pay more than some of my friends, which I don't mind if it's a good service most of the time
Exactly. I don't mind paying more (substantially more these days given the ever-falling prices elsewhere), but I expect to get something for it. When I came to IDNet, and when I suggested to many others that they should come as well, it was on the basis that it was the most trouble-free ISP, i.e. no silly restrictions or FUPs or port blocks, no call centre of script-readers in Bombay who would take a week to fix even a basic fault (if you could persuade them that there was a fault at all), very good customer service and very few outages.
Most of those things remain in place, but an increase in the number of outages in the last couple of years is clearly evident; the customer service is still good, but in my view has lost a little of its early lustre given one or two of my personal experiences which I won't rehash here. Of course, I realise that the outages are almost never the fault of IDNet, and in that sense I feel sorry for them, but at the end of the day they're not my fault either.
I certainly hope they give BT a good kicking for this, assuming that yet again, the outage is BT's fault.
P.S. Needless to say, my connection is also down again in this latest outage.
All of IDNet's systems appear OK to me so I'm fairly sure it's BT here, and that's what their announcement implies. Who wants to bet there's some glitch in the configuration they had to reimplement a week or so ago?
2010-10-20 12:31: BT have identified a fault with one of our two Host Link connections to them. The fault investigation is ongoing and also why those affected customers have not automatically failed over to the working connection.
Quote from: dlorde on Oct 20, 2010, 12:35:32
2010-10-20 12:31: BT have identified a fault with one of our two Host Link connections to them. The fault investigation is ongoing and also why those affected customers have not automatically failed over to the working connection.
Deja vu ? This was supposed to have been sorted previously......
How depressingly predictable. IDNet should seriously pursue BT for a lot of money for this. To have a primary system fail is bad but these things happen occasionally. To have the backup system fail at the same time (just over a week ago), due to a deeply flawed design that made it tantamount to fraud to charge for it as a backup system, is unacceptable. To have the same backup system fail to work as a backup AGAIN barely a week later is frankly taking the piss.
This is getting too much now.
I think the biggest problem is how long BT are taking to rectify these faults. I mean an hour and a half to work out that one of the host links was down...........come on........
Over 2 hours down now
To clarify, the last major outage was not the backup failing, but the entire deletion of the configuration for IDNet -- without the configuration, neither the primary nor the secondary hostlinks will function; that is to say, the backup is a hardware level redundancy, if a primary router fails, the secondary kicks in.
BT rectified this blunder after 6-7 hours as I recall. Unfortunately it appears what happened today is that a hostlink failed and it turns out the hardware redundancy doesn't work either....
Oh dear.
Quote from: esh on Oct 20, 2010, 13:13:58
To clarify, the last major outage was not the backup failing, but the entire deletion of the configuration for IDNet -- without the configuration, neither the primary nor the secondary hostlinks will function; that is to say, the backup is a hardware level redundancy, if a primary router fails, the secondary kicks in.
BT rectified this blunder after 6-7 hours as I recall. Unfortunately it appears what happened today is that a hostlink failed and it turns out the hardware redundancy doesn't work either....
Oh dear.
But this fault is identical to a long outage which happened a while back and that entailed the hostlink and failover not working as they were both located together on the same failed equipment. It was said then that steps would be taken to ensure that it never happened again..........
Yeah, this is true. Likely they reinstated the old unfixed configuration... or it just never worked at all.
I wonder if IDNet have anything in writing over this? Probably not.
Service down for over two hours in York, too. Second time in as many weeks ...
Service: Announcement
Updated: 2010-10-20 13:30:02
State: Sub-Optimal Service
Message: ADSL Max lines on the 20C broadband network are successfully failing over to the working BT Gigabit link but ADSL2+ lines on the 21C network are not. BT are diagnosing
That' explains why one of my lines is up and the other is down!
Just got a call from Miriam(?) returning my previous unanswered support call (what other ISP would do that?). As usual, BT have given no timescale for a fix. I suggested IDNET claim a refund on their failover fee - although I would expect their SLA would have suitable compensation for failure included.
ETA: Oh yes, and she suggested turning off the modem for 30 mins to see if it might then reconnect to a different (i.e. working) service.
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Oct 20, 2010, 13:17:16
But this fault is identical to a long outage which happened a while back and that entailed the hostlink and failover not working as they were both located together on the same failed equipment. It was said then that steps would be taken to ensure that it never happened again..........
This brings me to another point I've been meaning to make. So far in this outage, IDNet have behaved exactly as we might like them to (posting the problem on the their network status, giving updates when they receive them, trying to pursue BT for a fix ETA albeit without success), and all credit to them for that. However, there is a sense that once the problem is fixed, the investigation into the causes and remedy to ensure that it won't happen again, is just quietly dropped, and long-term nothing really changes.
Take the most recent previous outage: in the Announcements section on here, Simon from IDNet posted that BT were being asked for an explanation as to exactly what happened. 9 days on, and either no explanation has been given, or it hasn't been passed on to the people who were actually affected by the outage and who want reassurance that it's not going to happen again. Did BT provide an explanation? Did IDNet accept that explanation? What action did BT take to ensure that it wouldn't happen again? As an affected customer, I don't just want to hear "we'll pursue them for an explanation" followed by a deafening silence which suggests that nothing has been done, I want to hear what the explanation actually IS, and what action is taken to ensure that it won't happen again. If BT refuse to provide an explanation or a course of action, I want to hear that too. Just sweeping these things under the rug once the service is back up and running again is clearly not working, and leaves sceptics like myself with the sense that BT are just screwing over IDNet at any opportunity, and that this isn't going to change because IDNet won't stand up to them.
Quote from: dlorde on Oct 20, 2010, 13:52:59
ETA: Oh yes, and she suggested turning off the modem for 30 mins to see if it might then reconnect to a different (i.e. working) service.
I did wonder whether the above might get the adsl2+ users onto the other host link.
Quote from: Steve on Oct 20, 2010, 14:07:28
I did wonder whether the above might get the adsl2+ users onto the other host link.
Unfortunately not an option for me - the router is located at a different office :(
Something to bear in mind here is that, just like the link that comes into your home, IDNet rent the host links from BT and it may well be BT are not coming forward with the info or if they do, IDNet's contract may stipulate that operational information is not made public (which wouldn't suprise me at all)
If they were to breach this condition they could be sued and the service ceased which of course would lead to an end to their ability to provide broadband and possibly telephone service.
Quote from: pctech on Oct 20, 2010, 14:11:21
Something to bear in mind here is that, just like the link that comes into your home, IDNet rent the host links from BT and it may well be BT are not coming forward with the info or if they do, IDNet's contract may stipulate that operational information is not made public (which wouldn't suprise me at all)
If they were to breach this condition they could be sued and the service ceased which of course would lead to an end to their ability to provide broadband and possibly telephone service.
As it happens, I recently discussed exactly that with my brother (who is also my lawyer), and he was of the opinion that this clause would be unenforceable since it is an unfairly weighted in favour of one party, and it is also likely to violate Freedom of Information legislation since the details pertain directly to customers. It's also apparent that operational information is already being made public in that we're informed about the existence of a failsafe system, and the failure of that system to operate correctly.
If it is that BT are not forthcoming with this information, then IDNet should tell their customers that, and also take up the issue with their lawyers and the regulator.
Possibly not related but I have now lost DNS as well - refreshed the page (Having had it up for 3.5hrs) and got a 'page cannot be displayed' error. Could not open bbc.co.uk either but changing to Google's public DNS (8.8.8.8) gave me service - swapped back and had the problem again, back to Google DNS and able to post here >:(
I imagine BT are "conducting an investigation" still regarding the last incident. AAISP are always saying "x happened at y hours, we are chasing BT", and predictably nothing comes of it. Admittedly, if a few thousand lines glitch for a few seconds without explanation you can probably let it go. In the last case though, and a failure of a backup system, I agree there needs to be answers (though what answer can BT give apart from "oops"?). It might just be a case of them not thinking we are interested in the answers, or maybe they are not allowed to provide private communications for our perusal. I don't know; I'm not trying to make excuses, just fathom some reasonable answers. Yes, I did do a sentence break to avoid putting BT and 'reasonable' in the same sente.... oh wait.
Well I've missed my deadline now :(
Latest from the service page
2010-10-20 14:49: We suspect that BT are filtering our ADSL2+ customers' login authentications. We have informed BT of this and have asked to them to check through their filter configurations.
Why should Bt filter idnet customer logins? What nefarious reason have they got, I wonder.
I think they are possibly filtering them in the wrong direction so to speak.
Quote from: Inkblot on Oct 20, 2010, 14:54:51
Latest from the service page
2010-10-20 14:49: We suspect that BT are filtering our ADSL2+ customers' login authentications. We have informed BT of this and have asked to them to check through their filter configurations.
LOL, it looks like IDNet have to do BT's tech support job for them now. It seems that the only thing BT is competent at is making sure they get paid. One can only wonder why BT have decided to "accidentally" start filtering logins related to one particular ISP. Net neutrality, anyone?
I think IDnet should filter there size 12 boots in the wrong direction. Right up BT's arses!!!! ;D
Quote from: Steve on Oct 20, 2010, 15:05:29
I think they are possibly filtering them in the wrong direction so to speak.
If it wasn't a situation like this ,that comment would be funny.
"Hey Fred, which direction is ON again?"
"Can't remember, Bill; just try one and leave it for a few hours. They're bound to tell us if we did it wrong."
"Right you are. Cup of tea?"
"Cheers, mate."
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Oct 20, 2010, 15:08:52
If it wasn't a situation like this ,that comment would be funny.
It was not intended to be funny!
Well I tried turning the modem off for 30 mins, but still no joy. This is getting seriously annoying...
How come mine aint working if it's because of ADSL 2 as I am stuck on a 1meg fixed line. Mind you any hiccup and off line we go thanks to wonderful BT who know there is a fault on the line but wont do anything about it. Dial up here we come. ;D ;D
See the news banner for the latest 'state of play'. BT seem determined to ruin IDNet. :(
At my previous employ, I once got so frustrated with BT stonewalling that I gave the story of my frustration to The Register. Within hours of it being published, the top brass were applying pressure for the problem to go away. (This was a possible breach of their internal procedures.)
Shame we can't do that. :)
Latest update:
2010-10-20 15:44: BT Openreach are tracing the fault on the failed Gigabit circuit and BT Operate are working on the ADSL2+ login fault. We still have no estimated time to fix for either fault. We are chasing them very hard on this.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 15:45:54
Shame we can't do that. :)
Why can't you? An anonymous leak to The Register, an off-the-record comment to the mainstream press showing how the BT monopoly abuses it's position, and some BT middle manager who's currently clowning around might finally get his act together, or find his arse dumped on the street.
When I torpedoed those nice people at Independent Insurance (hope the porridge is nice, guys :D ), I first contacted the FSA. When they sat on their hands, I then went to the BBC. Within hours of being on the Ten O'clock News, the FSA were tripping over themselves to investigate my findings. A bit of bad publicity goes a long way in this country.
As I said before, this keeps happening because IDNet act like they're afraid of BT. It needs to be the other way around. Don't just chase them hard when there's a problem, chase them hard even after it's been fixed, and keep chasing until it becomes in their best interests to ensure that it doesn't happen again. You clearly can't count on goodwill from BT.
Quote from: karvala on Oct 20, 2010, 15:52:48
Why can't you?
Because we are not IDNet staff and we only know as much as everyone else.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 15:45:54
Shame we can't do that. :)
You're not here! Holiday, incommunicado in Suffolk till Sunday is where you're supposed to be.
Quote from: Lance on Oct 20, 2010, 15:56:08
Because we are not IDNet staff and we only know as much as everyone else.
So? You know the problems and the effect on IDNet's users .......
I don't think IDNet act as if they're afraid of BT, they just don't adopt a confrontational attitude, they concentrate on working together to get customers back online asap. I am sure their patience must be wearing thing, though.
Forum staff, because of our close relationship with IDNet can't be involved in any press contact. Forum members may not feel so restricted.
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Oct 20, 2010, 15:56:18
You're not here! Holiday, incommunicado in Suffolk till Sunday is where you're supposed to be.
I know, but I heard what had happened.
I've managed to get on-line by booting up my ADSL connection which was being mothballed. There's no mention of FTTC in the announcement and I can't see anyone on it reporting problems so is it just me again (on FTTC)?
Oh and hi Rik, hope you're enjoying your break :wave:
I was till I heard what had happened, Zap. ;)
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Oct 20, 2010, 16:21:11
I've managed to get on-line by booting up my ADSL connection which was being mothballed. There's no mention of FTTC in the announcement and I can't see anyone on it reporting problems so is it just me again (on FTTC)?
My FTTC connection has been down since 11am.
Still in the 14 day cool off period of my new 12 month contract...........I can't take any more of this so may have to exit
This is really bad... again. Heading on for 6 hours now? This is where I am supposed to say something smug about still being on ADSL1 and complain about "early adopters" (cough) and that you youngsters should not be treading on my patch of grass.
I wonder why only the ADSL2 would fail to roll over. I assume by the time data gets to IDNet's end, traffic is traffic, whether it bit fibre, DSL, or pigeons.
Also cs: that's really sad, as fibre *ought* to be so much better. But I'm certainly not going to try and convince you otherwise. What a sorry state of affairs.
My guess would be that when BT screwed up the configurations last week, they didn't put them back correctly.
Quote from: cs on Oct 20, 2010, 16:26:34
My FTTC connection has been down since 11am.
Still in the 14 day cool off period of my new 12 month contract...........I can't take any more of this so may have to exit
You'll be lucky. Idnet do not have a cooling off period for fttc as I found out myself.
That's because BT have no cooling off period.
I've always defended Idnet but not sure I can anymore :( I've had to top up my dongle to get online today, which been on disability benefits I can ill afford.. to pay idnet and the dongle :(
I don't care who's fault it is, the fact is yet again we are without a service we pay good money for :(
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 16:29:31
My guess would be that when BT screwed up the configurations last week, they didn't put them back correctly.
Yeah I did wonder... they probably rushed it or something. Either from an old backup (pre ADSL2?) or they just... forgot.
Quote from: Tina on Oct 20, 2010, 16:32:13
I've always defended Idnet but not sure I can anymore :( I've had to top up my dongle to get online today, which been on disability benefits I can ill afford.. to pay idnet and the dongle :(
I don't care who's fault it is, the fact is yet again we are without a service we pay good money for :(
IDNet are acutely aware of the problems their customers have faced recently, Tina, but until BT stops screwing up, they are struggling. I am sure they will apply maximum pressure to BT.
Is it supposed to be only ADSL2 customers that are affected? I have no connection here and I'm still on normal ADSL.
I am due to be moving to IDNet FTTC next week but this is very off putting indeed. Might as well be with a cheaper provider as the customer service is not what it used to at IDNet any more and after all that is all we are paying the extra for.
It is, if you have a straight ADSL connection, something else is at play in your case. I can only suggest contacting support.
Quote from: cs on Oct 20, 2010, 16:26:34
My FTTC connection has been down since 11am.
Thanks for that, I feel a little better knowing it's not just me and at least I've managed to get my other line back on-line. The odd thing is it couldn't find a DNS server to connect to this morning which sounds like it was hit by the outage so I don't know why it's working now.
ADSL connections are making it through to IDNet, Zap, while ADSL2 & Fibre are not.
Quote
IDNet are acutely aware of the problems their customers have faced recently, Tina, but until BT stops screwing up, they are struggling. I am sure they will apply maximum pressure to BT.
Yeah last time an investigation was promised and unless I've missed it then I haven't heard what the outcome was from last time. it feels like exactly the same issue as last time.. oh well
Rik any chance of contacting support and asking what the state of play is with FTTC/VDSL2 customers? It's all very well having these service announcements but it makes no mention of fibre customers at all so we're left wondering what's going on.
Before I make myself look stupid, it's something I do a lot :) I'm on 8mb ADSL that's normal ADSL right? I've never upgraded ADSL2+ so I guess I'm on standard ADSL?
You are.
Quote from: Wooloff on Oct 20, 2010, 16:42:31
Before I make myself look stupid, it's something I do a lot :) I'm on 8mb ADSL that's normal ADSL right? I've never upgraded ADSL2+ so I guess I'm on standard ADSL?
I'll try.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 16:41:28
ADSL connections are making it through to IDNet, Zap, while ADSL2 & Fibre are not.
Cheers :thumb:
Latest from the status page :
2010-10-20 16:42: Both of these faults have been escalated to the highest levels within BT due to the toally unacceptable length of time it is taking to find and fix the problems.
I just saw that, and IDNet are absolutely right. *Especially* with no estimate.
Hi Esh
Yes, fibre connections are being affected the same way as ADSL2. BT are still trying to track the fault, and IDNet are still tearing their hair out. >:(
Quote from: cs on Oct 20, 2010, 16:45:30
Latest from the status page :
2010-10-20 16:42: Both of these faults have been escalated to the highest levels within BT due to the toally unacceptable length of time it is taking to find and fix the problems.
One might add 'again'. Twice in two weeks - it's not good enough, yet I bet BT accept no liability.
Tried phoning support but no answer. Guess they're busy with something. My parents connection is also down and they are on standard ADSL as well. So the problem is affecting more than just ADSL2 and FTTC.
Hi Rik :D Good to see you swinging into action... except it would be nicer if you didn't have to.
IDNet will be a bald ISP before long :(
Quote from: Wooloff on Oct 20, 2010, 16:52:35
Tried phoning support but no answer. Guess they're busy with something. My parents connection is also down and they are on standard ADSL as well. So the problem is affecting more than just ADSL2 and FTTC.
They are busy laying into BT, drop them an email.
Quote from: esh on Oct 20, 2010, 16:53:18
Hi Rik :D Good to see you swinging into action... except it would be nicer if you didn't have to.
IDNet will be a bald ISP before long :(
And that's just Miriam. ;D
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 16:31:55
That's because BT have no cooling off period.
I think there is a cooling off period but that starts as soon as you request the service, and expires on activation, you are also liable for any intervening work.
Just had a reply from support. It's affecting anyone on a CN21 exchange regardless of your current connection. That would be why mines down as well then. At least I know why now.
Thanks for that - how did you manage to get through? :)
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 17:03:28
Thanks for that - how did you manage to get through? :)
I very nice sounding man called James, phoned. I was most shocked I'll take back what I said about support being not what it was.
James is a good lad - get him talking on food and you can hear him salivate. ;D
My connection is back!!!!
My FTTC connection is back online now too
:fingers: :fingers:
My adsl max just this second came back online :)
Left work @ 16:45 with no Internet, got home @ 17:10 and it's back on again...let's hope it stays on now!
6 hours 15 minutes downtime >:(
Very similar to last time, I wonder if it suggests a repeat of the same problem with configuration?
A repeat of morons working for BT if you ask me. Talk about not learning lessons ::)
BT and learning. :eyebrow:
Isn't that an oxymoron?
:rant2: Finally got my connection back.
On a day when I REALLY needed an internet connection (have got an interview tomorrow and wanted to do some research) - THIS has to happen! >:(
Now when I worked for <name of ISP hidden to protect the innocent>, we had a 4 hour SLA on critical faults. My connection was down for well over six hours today... and as we all know, this is the 2nd time this has happened in as many weeks!
I had a letter through the door this morning from BT stating "Get 3 months free broadband"... Coincidence?
:rant2:
Support were good though. Always called back when I left a message. :thumb:
Quote from: Conrad on Oct 20, 2010, 17:28:46
I had a letter through the door this morning from BT stating "Get 3 months free broadband"... Coincidence?
I had a similar offer from BT Infinity today. I wonder if BT lose Infinity customer authentications down the back of the company sofa...
Quote from: cs on Oct 20, 2010, 16:45:30
Latest from the status page :
2010-10-20 16:42: Both of these faults have been escalated to the highest levels within BT due to the toally unacceptable length of time it is taking to find and fix the problems.
Mein Gott, surely not the tea lady. :eek4: :eek4:
Quote from: karvala on Oct 20, 2010, 12:27:25
Exactly. I don't mind paying more (substantially more these days given the ever-falling prices elsewhere), but I expect to get something for it. When I came to IDNet, and when I suggested to many others that they should come as well, it was on the basis that it was the most trouble-free ISP, i.e. no silly restrictions or FUPs or port blocks, no call centre of script-readers in Bombay who would take a week to fix even a basic fault (if you could persuade them that there was a fault at all), very good customer service and very few outages.
Most of those things remain in place, but an increase in the number of outages in the last couple of years is clearly evident; the customer service is still good, but in my view has lost a little of its early lustre given one or two of my personal experiences which I won't rehash here. Of course, I realise that the outages are almost never the fault of IDNet, and in that sense I feel sorry for them, but at the end of the day they're not my fault either.
I certainly hope they give BT a good kicking for this, assuming that yet again, the outage is BT's fault.
P.S. Needless to say, my connection is also down again in this latest outage.
This is how I'm feeling too, after over 6 hours outage today, 8 hours just over a week ago and a 22 hour outage a few months back.
I moved to IDNET largely because reliability is a lot more important to me than price. Support is very contactable which is excellent and someone (I think Miriam?) did call me back today - however reliability just isn't happening right now.
To the uninformed eye (i.e. mine) all three major outages appear to be very similar - it seems that the same problems are just recurring over again and taking forever to fix each time, which doesn't give much confidence for the future :po:
Quote from: sobranie on Oct 20, 2010, 17:42:47
Mein Gott, surely not the tea lady. :eek4: :eek4:
:rofl:
Quote from: sobranie on Oct 20, 2010, 17:42:47
Mein Gott, surely not the tea lady. :eek4: :eek4:
No, the highest level within BT is Beattie from the old adverts, she moved into management after the campaign...... :whistle:
Quote from: winspiration on Oct 20, 2010, 17:45:36
This is how I'm feeling too, after over 6 hours outage today, 8 hours just over a week ago and a 22 hour outage a few months back.
I moved to IDNET largely because reliability is a lot more important to me than price. Support is very contactable which is excellent and someone (I think Miriam?) did call me back today - however reliability just isn't happening right now.
To the uninformed eye (i.e. mine) all three major outages appear to be very similar - it seems that the same problems are just recurring over again and taking forever to fix each time, which doesn't give much confidence for the future :po:
I think even long-standing, loyal, customers are beginning to feel that these problems need fixing fast if IDNet is to have a shred of its reputation left. IMO, BT have done untold damage to their business in the past couple of weeks in particular, and in the past couple of years with delayed delivery dates etc.
BT should be forced to compensate ISPs who have received this sort of service.
To be honest, it is very annoying when it happens, especially today when I came home early to have a lounge around and tinker around with the net for daily usage to give me time later for other things. That being said, I'm more than aware this is BT at fault so whilst irritated I don't blame IDnet at all. It's a shame that they're basically held hostage by incompetent morons.
Again, I'm not effected. But I can understand it is not reasonable for other customers. If you have backup systems in place. It's expected that they work. :slap:
We do know it's not IDNet's fault, that it rests squarely on the shoulders of BT. It would be good if they could be held accountable though.
Wouldn't it, Ben.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 17:16:47
Very similar to last time, I wonder if it suggests a repeat of the same problem with configuration?
I actually laughed really loud at that one. But if it's true, I might just cry! :pmsl:
[edit] And on topic. If it's Openreach, at least there is no conflict of interest.
As regards BT. They have ZERO reason, interest, or drive, to fix their incompetence when it involves other ISPs. It's like the post service letting their cars "accidentally" break down in front of their rivals blocking a delivery! :shake:
It just makes me wonder - or perhaps IDNet are marked down for 6 hour fixes? :shake:
Why does it all have to go over BT anyway? Why not have a backup with a different provider?
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/997914307.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Cost, in a word. Be are much more expensive, some of the alternatives are no better than BT. IDNet are not big enough to do their own LLU.
Gah. Stop changing Avatars Rik. :laugh:
since everyone is on one link now should we be expecting slower speeds / packet lose / higher pings?
No, only one link is normally in use, Paul, the second one is there to provide transparent backup should there be a failure in the primary link. :rofl:
My noise and and connection is up and down like a yo-yo at the moment
Related?
went from 9db to 3 to 8 and now 0.3
edit:
0 now 16.3
you are gonna love this graph!!
if its unrelated ill make a new thread...
that is if my fudging connection would stop going on and off!
surprise, surprise another outage.
i rang support earlier, but got as far as the recorded announcement .. fair enough i figured, but the bit at the end about 'visiting our website' was a kick while down :)
Finally! Time to look for another ISP me thinks :( I have no objection paying premium prices for a good service, but this is silly now :( I don't care who's fault it is, just another day without access and having to top up a dongle I can ill afford so I can do my daily life
Please dont go of anymore tonight. I'm downloading Fallout New Vegas and nearly there :fingers: I connected at over 4kbps, highest I have ever been. Trouble is I can never go more than 7-8 days before it disconnects :bawl:
Quote from: gyruss on Oct 20, 2010, 18:14:03
i rang support earlier, but got as far as the recorded announcement .. fair enough i figured, but the bit at the end about 'visiting our website' was a kick while down :)
They assume, rightly, that many people have an alternative way to access the net, Jase, eg work. As the posts here prove. I admit there is a certain irony, but it's impossible for them to phone every customer and, today, it would have been pointless even to email them.
I feel really sorry for Simon and Tim, this really must be doing their heads in.
There's obviously an issue with the piece (or pieces) of equipment at BT's end which services their hostlinks.
Exactly, Mitch, plus those responsible for configuring and operating the system. Understandably, people vent at IDNet, but for all the team there, who have worked hard for years to build a reputation for the business, this is a tragedy of considerable proportion.
Well I will say their phone service rocks ;D
;D
My other line was fine too. ;)
I should think the MAC code requests are flooding in
I too am looking at a potential temporary (or not) move to Zen.
I can wholeheartedly recommend them, service is on a par with IDNet.
Do these problems have anything to do with the "upgrade" that took place a few weeks back?
As to their phone service... ??? I can never get hold of anyone OOH, and at the first hint of trouble all you get is a recorded message and a voicemail service. I wouldn't say it rocks. I would say it was just barely adequate.
IDNet are currently in "Last chance saloon" for me. Usually I would say three strikes and out, but as they have been so good up until the "upgrade", I am willing to give them one last go.
I have a 3 MiFI device as a backup but trouble is, 3G around this area is up & down lately and is not reliable for "work" use but is ok for browsing websites etc.
I'm not having a go at IDnet and not calling the service cr*p, I've been with them for nearly 4yrs now, but its time to look for a cheap backup ISP for days like this as I'm sure this won't be the last time it happens, everything breaks just more often when BT are around ;D
@DorsetBoy thx for the PM, I'll take a better read later.
Anyone else just lost connection again?
Edit - just resynced with a 172 ip address. Ffs
My connection just died :(
Yep. Gone here again :(
Yep me too, we're off again.
Gone here too :mad:
Hopefully just temp as BT sort the other link out :fingers:
Down again here too, i'm getting some great use out of my 3G dongle lately :D
Yep I'm off again this is getting a bit tedious
I'm getting the 172 ip again, so ye, same as before.
Down on both lines.
Just lost connection here and I see it's been a problem during the day....excellent timing but then it always is....
Ditto the last few comments. :bawl:
After being OK all day, I'm now down too. :sigh:
Been fine for me all afternoon and evening, so I must have missed the earlier issues. Just lost connection, though.
On for less than two hours. Off again ...
Quote from: Conrad on Oct 20, 2010, 18:30:03
Do these problems have anything to do with the "upgrade" that took place a few weeks back?
As to their phone service... ??? I can never get hold of anyone OOH, and at the first hint of trouble all you get is a recorded message and a voicemail service. I wouldn't say it rocks. I would say it was just barely adequate.
IDNet are currently in "Last chance saloon" for me. Usually I would say three strikes and out, but as they have been so good up until the "upgrade", I am willing to give them one last go.
My phone has been working ok since I switched.
Gone down again - this is costing dearly in Vodafone Dongle use! :rant2:
Quote from: jezuk1 on Oct 20, 2010, 18:44:51
Down again here too, i'm getting some great use out of my 3G dongle lately :D
Same here. I had 700mb to be used by the 27th this month, looks like it will be used now ;D
My max connection is now down, same symptoms as last week.
I'd just hit the button to buy a new wachine machine when the modem dropped out.... 50/50 chance I've spend £400?
Still, the unlimited data for £1 a day from T-Mobile still looks a bargain, second time in a week?
Idnet was one of the best in a matter of weeks it's gone down hill big time.
Premium price below par service :/
Still no internet connection , paying for ADSL2+ broadband and having to connect via dialup (third time this month!) - this situation is totally unacceptable , looks like its time to request a mac code and migrate to an isp that can provide a reliable connection. :mad:
Well here we go again another loss of service just as im bidding on ebay. Im afraid to say that after around 6mths of fantastic service from idnet over the last 3 weeks things have gone downhill fast with regular outages happening. Apart from
the speeds when you have service this is getting almost as bad as A o hell LOL.
Com'on idnet sort yourselves out!
Thank god for the android.
Has been fine here ask evening up until about 20-25 minutes ago as well.
Is the BT network really so naff that it warrants an almost weekly outage?
In any other country, this level of "service" would see the BT directors dragged out into the streets and beaten with customers modems and hog tied with some cat 5 cable.
Now there's a thought! :evil:
Yeah nets down here as well, Norfolk Watton exchange.
I am sure that the guys at idnet are just as frustrated as we all are. From my understanding this is out of Idnet's control at the moment and is a problem that could theoretically affect any provider.
Quote from: Mouseroo on Oct 20, 2010, 19:08:34
Has been fine here ask evening up until about 20-25 minutes ago as well.
Is the BT network really so naff that it warrants an almost weekly outage?
In any other country, this level of "service" would see the BT directors dragged out into the streets and beaten with customers modems and hog tied with some cat 5 cable.
Now there's a thought! :evil:
You bring the modems I bring the Ethernet cables? ;D
Quote from: jezuk1 on Oct 20, 2010, 19:10:32
I am sure that the guys at idnet are just as frustrated as we all are. From my understanding this is out of Idnet's control at the moment and is a problem that could theoretically affect any provider.
Yes I understand that but it's effecting idnet a hell of a lot of late.
I've got no connection on Max. It seems that BT are having a great laugh today. :shake:
At least this time I've a 3 dongle and can finds out what's happening - last week I spent two hours rebooting the router and installing a speedtouch modem before I rang my son to go online for me and find out the IDNet helpline number. :slap:
My connection has gone again too. Now using my mobile phone as a modem. Vodafone prepay is not cheap. This sucks. Called support, left a message. Haven't had a call back. I have stuff to do!!!! I want my internet back! :bawl:
Is there any chance on getting an update on an eta for a fix?
Does anyone have an out of hours number for idnet? The one I had doesn't appear to work anymore.
Do Support frequent these boards? If so, any chance we could see the ECO history for this fault!?? Lol. I bet it's a great read!
This is getting ridiculous now :/
Something seems to be seriously screwed up with IDnet's links to BT, as of late there always is something going wrong. Either a piece of hardware not working, configuration wiped, backup link not functioning (seriously they need to get a refund for all the time the backup link has not been functional!)
I've been down a while here too, only have GPRS link up. I guess they fixed 21CN and broke 20CN or something :(
This is ... disappointing. I hope IDNet support have a few strong drinks to hand.
It is disappointing I've just got home , on GPRS never mind it's not the end of the world and no ones died.
No mention of this latest failure on the status page. I hope they know about it........
Unfortunately no. My ADSL2+ is down too. The updates found here (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=22638.0) have not yet been updated with this new failure. For it to fall over again just 30 mins after it was 'fixed' is a joke... except I'm not laughing.
I knew as soon as I posted that, there'd be a message!
Doesn't look good though......
2010-10-20 19:30: BT have now broken both our circuit into them!
2010-10-20 19:30: BT have now broken both our circuit into them!
This is incredible, hats off to BT for an epic cock-up!
I'm back online :)
As this part of the forum is open for all to see (including all the bots) this wonderous piece of work by British Telecom is being indexed all over the net ....... someone at BT HQ will be doing some explaining. :evil:
This is very damaging to idnets customer relations and indeed will no doubt result in loss of its customer base should it continue. The directors of idnet need to seek some serious compensation for these frequent losses of service and perhaps in turn recompence us the customers with a reduction in next months bill.
My friend on bt had a serious outage of over 18 hours and received no less than 2 months free of charge after sending an apropriate letter, so im sure idnet are seriously in the driving seat here.
Ironic but it seems the mobile operators have the more stable service at this moment, tha
Quote from: Niall on Oct 20, 2010, 19:39:39
I'm back online :)
Same here but shhhh don't let BT hear you say that ;D
Let's see how long this lasts. Are we taking bets?
Me too, shame I just topped up my 3 dongle with £2 for the day >:(
am back up .. for now
Still down here. :(
I like the way the current network status is classed as "Sub-Optimal Service"... yeah! Like WAY sub-optimal! I think they need to introduce a new network status of "Completely scre**d by BT".
Hehe... Time for a coffee and biscuit methinks. Anyone?
....OOOH!!! I'm back on now!! YAY! :)
I've been a loyal customer for years but it seems IDNET is in BT's blacklist.
Is it ok to pay £25 for this cr*p service?
Aren't we entitled to any compensation?
Got my internet back but it seems to be quite sluggish...
I think a discount off next months bill would be a good sweetner to keep people from leaving.
I've only been here since 16th August but have had nothing but problems ever since. I'm out of here soon. Absolutely peed off, mine has been going on and off all days as it does several times a day since I joined up.
Still no service here.
BT broke everything, including the Max connections which were previously OK. :(
Quote from: Rudds on Oct 20, 2010, 19:49:26
Still no service here.
It seems to be rolling out, Paul, I had one line reconnect several minutes before the other.
Spoke too soon, its going up and down like a Yo-Yo.
Can't send emails either
Compensation perhaps? For both us and Idnet.
Seriously considering trialing Zen now, same price, more bandwidth and worth a try - unless there is something Idnet can do for us?
Back online here in Somerset. But for how long...? ???
13 hours downtime in two weeks... glad I'm not superstitious :P
Yes I've been with idnet for 4 years or so and i'm considering leaving
I suspect they'll be re loading the hostlink gradually.
Been checking Zen out - will wait to see what IDnet say, but am seriously thinking of moving over
It may also be a bottleneck of login requests...
Can some one whos tech savy about internet infrastructure explain whats going on and whos fault it is? :mad:
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 19:51:41
BT broke everything, including the Max connections which were previously OK. :(
Rik, you'll soon run out words to defend Idnet ;D
QuoteWarning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
No, I don't.
Back online here.
Back up here, too (for now). After spending half an hour turning the house upside down looking for an RJ11 cable, then setting up a dialup connection to IDNet on my steam-powered laptop (eight years old and still chugging along) and getting through to Yahoo Mail at an agonising 36kbps to inform my friend in the US that I wouldn't be online for her birthday tonight, I came back up to the PC and there's Win7 proudly beaming at me that I have internet access again!
It wouldn't have been so bad if the 3G connection around here was less spotty of late. My mobile kept giving me 'unable to connect to server' messages, too.
:wall:
Not even getting modem sync here.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 19:51:41
BT broke everything, including the Max connections which were previously OK. :(
They have to be good at something :mad:
Guys - Whilst I understand that everyone is heads down trying to solve the issue you really do need to do something about communications.
I have been off line since late morning - the recorded phone message was there saying there was an issue but it was not updated for hours - the message was not timestamped in any way but to me it sounded exactly the same. When I called around 16:30 the message had changed but again no time stamp or next expected update .... When I finally managed to get a connection around 17:40 and went to the web site I saw there were posts giving update every hour .... While that may assist some people its of no use to me because I can't get online to read them - all I have is the phone ...
While I was away having my dinner the service went down again ... I have now worked out how to use my phone to connect (I guess the off line time has forced me to work out how to do this so one bonus). .... I am not staying for long as its slow and I am unsure how much it will cost .... your web site said the service was back up in fall over mode so I re-booted the modem and PC and dug around in the connections and tried to call .... I can't be sure if the recording was the same as earlier or not. Finally, at around 19:30, I see the status message updated to say BT had done their level best to really mess things up.
better communications please ....
Another one thinking about leaving here, but it really depends on the IDNet response after it's been finally fixed. If they pursue BT for an explanation of what went wrong and how it will be avoided in future, and have the courtesy to provide it to the hundreds of affected end users, then I will stay with them because the outage was not their fault (beyond their rather dubious policy of not confronting BT). If, however, we get the same deafening silence that we've had after every previous outage, as though users are not entitled to an explanation and should just be grateful that they have a connection at all, then I will certainly not be handing over any more money to a company with that attitude, and I'll do my best to ensure that other people don't either.
The outage was not IDNet's responsibility, but how they respond (or don't respond) certainly is.
Quote from: foreversummer on Oct 20, 2010, 19:48:59
I've only been here since 16th August but have had nothing but problems ever since. I'm out of here soon. Absolutely peed off, mine has been going on and off all days as it does several times a day since I joined up.
The daily line drops are a local issue caused by noise/interference between the exchange and your home, I did offer to come and assist you and try a different router.........
Just got back online here. £35 per month is looking very bad value at the moment.
QuoteAnother one thinking about leaving here, but it really depends on the IDNet response after it's been finally fixed. If they pursue BT for an explanation of what went wrong and how it will be avoided in future, and have the courtesy to provide it to the hundreds of affected end users, then I will stay with them because the outage was not their fault (beyond their rather dubious policy of not confronting BT). If, however, we get the same deafening silence that we've had after every previous outage, as though users are not entitled to an explanation and should just be grateful that they have a connection at all, then I will certainly not be handing over any more money to a company with that attitude, and I'll do my best to ensure that other people don't either.
The outage was not IDNet's responsibility, but how they respond (or don't respond) certainly is.
My thoughts exactly :thumb:
.
Quote from: Upixar on Oct 20, 2010, 19:46:05
I've been a loyal customer for years but it seems IDNET is in BT's blacklist.
Is it ok to pay £25 for this cr*p service?
Aren't we entitled to any compensation?
I was with aol for 7 years and although their speeds were pathetic in peak times (traffic shaping) i can honestly say i never experianced a complete outage anyway when i rang to leave they wanted to give me 3 months free of charge.
Idnet are a big business customer with bt so yes compo is going to be paid i have no doubt. Will you get any somehow i doubt it.t]
Anyway still off here.
Quote from: gazzthompson on Oct 20, 2010, 19:57:00
Can some one whos tech savy about internet infrastructure explain whats going on and whos fault it is? :mad:
What I know at this point.
1) IDNet rent a hostlink (chunk of fibre and terminations etc) from BT, which connects their customers to their network via BT's network. These hostlinks are supplied over two sets of fibre, one live, one there as a fallback should the first fail. That fallback should be transparent to customers, ie it should happen before you notice a lost connection.
2) A week or so back, someone at BT wiped IDNet's configuration from the system, effectively BT ceased to recognise them as a customer, so it was impossible to connect as an IDNet customer.
3) Today, the primary hostlink failed. The secondary took over, but would only connect ADSL Max customers due to a configuration problem. That took BT several hours to fix and, last time I heard, they still hadn't repaired the primary link. Connections started coming back late this afternoon, then, around 7, BT broke all connections. These started to return around 7:45.
As yet, BT have not given a satisfactory explanation for any of this.
Quote from: Rudds on Oct 20, 2010, 20:05:53
.I was with aol for 7 years and although their speeds were pathetic in peak times (traffic shaping) i can honestly say i never experianced a complete outage anyway when i rang to leave they wanted to give me 3 months free of charge.
Idnet are a big business customer with bt so yes compo is going to be paid i have no doubt. Will you get any somehow i doubt it.t]
Anyway still off here.
What have you tried, Paul?
If IDnet cannot give us compo in the way of money knocked off our next bill, how about extra GB's of bandwidth? I am thinking at least double the allowance :thumb: That would make me stay :) (for now at least)
It's back up! Yay!
a tenner that I had to put on my dongle today would help me stay for now
From our experiences over the last 12 months, I don't think BT hold Idnet in much regard, perhaps we are too small to be worth treating sensibly.
Or perhaps Idnet are just unlucky time after time and so I am coming to see Idnet from Napoleon's view about army Generals; lucky ones beat good ones every time
AAISP looks as good as Zen and both are now in the equation.
Quote from: adamb on Oct 20, 2010, 20:10:16
If IDnet cannot give us compo in the way of money knocked off our next bill, how about extra GB's of bandwidth? I am thinking at least double the allowance :thumb: That would make me stay :) (for now at least)
Their priority now is to get things working properly. I'm sure they'll be well aware of customer sentiment.
all this has certainly got the forum visitors up ;D ;D
I spoke too soon. Sorry for any typos. currently have my pc balanced on a side board, trying to get a wifi signal to a BT fon/openzone service. :P
If the BT addresses were leaked by mistake, I'm sure theid get some visitors right about now!
While this loss of service is exceedingly annoying (I use my connection for business: I've lost a day's work), its not their fault.
The best thing you can do is write a letter of complaint that IDNet can wave at BT to demand compensation. If they then don't pass that through to us, well, then its time to think about leaving. But not before then!
IDNet are dealing with a monopoly competitor, its not an easy position to be in. Give them ammunition that they can use with the regulator, but also give them your support.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 19:52:27
It seems to be rolling out, Paul, I had one line reconnect several minutes before the other.
hi Rik,
Just come back up here very slow though i think mobiles faster at the moment. I think idnet have some really serious issues with bt here though mate. What do you make of it all?
Good result for us last night 2-0 good result for Sven too!
Can see tht Zen Pro offers 100 gig download per month for £34.99. But cannot see any info regarding traffic management. Also do they offer a Max service with traffic priority at the exchange?
Quote from: adamb on Oct 20, 2010, 20:10:16
If IDnet cannot give us compo in the way of money knocked off our next bill, how about extra GB's of bandwidth? I am thinking at least double the allowance :thumb: That would make me stay :) (for now at least)
The last thing you want is for everyone to suddenly have double bandwidth allowance.
Quote from: alexwright on Oct 20, 2010, 20:16:44
The best thing you can do is write a letter of complaint that IDNet can wave at BT to demand compensation. If they then don't pass that through to us, well, then its time to think about leaving. But not before then!
some one could draft a letter template and we could all use it to send one to IDNet, if you want to of course :)
Got my Mac code (for which many thanks) and Zen's details, just in case the whole deal goes down for a third time over the next couple of weeks. The past few weeks remind me of the old fun and games at Demon Internet back in the day. Sunlight and the lawyers (if there is a reasonable case against BT) sound the best remedies here, at a guess. If this slips into head-shaking but nothing more then the system is getting a free pass for the same thing to happen again and again, I think. A broken system will stay broken until it is changed and everyone can see that it is changed.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 20:14:07
Their priority now is to get things working properly. I'm sure they'll be well aware of customer sentiment.
I thought it was out of IDnet's control? Just like us, waiting for connections to reestablish. Sure they will have people chasing up the issues while I sit here with a home server with no connection and a very important missed deadline. I guess it's my fault for leaving things 'til the last minute as usual ::)
I know it's very frustrating for everyone but as far as the majority of end users are concerned they will point the finger at the ISP.
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Oct 20, 2010, 20:17:45
The last thing you want is for everyone to suddenly have double bandwidth allowance.
Not everyone... Just me ;D
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 20:07:36
What I know at this point.
1) IDNet rent a hostlink (chunk of fibre and terminations etc) from BT, which connects their customers to their network via BT's network. These hostlinks are supplied over two sets of fibre, one live, one there as a fallback should the first fail. That fallback should be transparent to customers, ie it should happen before you notice a lost connection.
2) A week or so back, someone at BT wiped IDNet's configuration from the system, effectively BT ceased to recognise them as a customer, so it was impossible to connect as an IDNet customer.
3) Today, the primary hostlink failed. The secondary took over, but would only connect ADSL Max customers due to a configuration problem. That took BT several hours to fix and, last time I heard, they still hadn't repaired the primary link. Connections started coming back late this afternoon, then, around 7, BT broke all connections. These started to return around 7:45.
As yet, BT have not given a satisfactory explanation for any of this.
Rik, any comments on the following;
1 live connx and 1 fall back connx. I suspect these 2 connx terminate (as 1) somewhere along the bt network hence 1 fault, everyone gone!! Therefore IDNet require a 3rd independant connx do they not? Yeah, I know that's expensive but so is IDNets subscription rates to we punters!!
BT wiped (r) wiped IDNet' configuration!!!! How and why for God sake and where's the apologies from BT. Perhaps we should ring Bombay on this!!
Why so long to fix the problem this time? Traces of Horlicks in the BT staff I'll be bound. No satisfactory explanation from BT ..... do you in all honesty expect an explanation from this bunch of w***ers?
just my 2p worth.
Quote from: karvala on Oct 20, 2010, 20:02:02
Another one thinking about leaving here, but it really depends on the IDNet response after it's been finally fixed. If they pursue BT for an explanation of what went wrong and how it will be avoided in future, and have the courtesy to provide it to the hundreds of affected end users, then I will stay with them because the outage was not their fault (beyond their rather dubious policy of not confronting BT). If, however, we get the same deafening silence that we've had after every previous outage, as though users are not entitled to an explanation and should just be grateful that they have a connection at all, then I will certainly not be handing over any more money to a company with that attitude, and I'll do my best to ensure that other people don't either.
The outage was not IDNet's responsibility, but how they respond (or don't respond) certainly is.
Fair comment and I would take the same stance if I were you. We have yet to receive a satisfactory response to our demands for an explanation to the outage on 10th Oct. The response so far has been perfunctory in the extreme: "it was caused by human error". Well, we knew that already. Although we don't necessarily want to have a scalp we do want to know how a human was able/allowed to make such a catastrophic error and how they will be prevented from doing so again in the future. I suspect that there is a fair degree of buck-passing going on right now within BT but we will not let this slide by. I met the BT Product Manager in BT Centre last week and he has raised this as a High Level Complaint for us. We are awaiting their investigation and we will report back to you when they reveal their findings.
In the meantime we'll be pursuing them yet again concerning the events of today.
Regards
Simon
Quote from: Rudds on Oct 20, 2010, 20:17:25
hi Rik,
Just come back up here very slow though i think mobiles faster at the moment. I think idnet have some really serious issues with bt here though mate. What do you make of it all?
I'm probably not as frustrated as Simon & Tim, but I suspect that all the forum staff are not far behind. We know the work and effort that has gone into building IDNet up, and it's being destroyed by BT. That the latter can get away with it infuriates me, but I'm not a BT customer so can't have a go at them.
I think it's generally true to say that when IDNet get a problem, it seems to be like a London bus and is closely followed by one or two more. That said, I don't recall seeing such a level of unhappiness in the forum, but I do understand people's frustration.
QuoteGood result for us last night 2-0 good result for Sven too!
Nothing like looking on the bright side, I got transferred to my preferred cardiologist today, so I had something to smile about too. ;D
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 20, 2010, 20:25:47
Fair comment and I would take the same stance if I were you. We have yet to receive a satisfactory response to our demands for an explanation to the outage on 10th Oct. The response so far has been perfunctory in the extreme: "it was caused by human error". Well, we knew that already. Although we don't necessarily want to have a scalp we do want to know how a human was able/allowed to make such a catastrophic error and how they will be prevented from doing so again in the future. I suspect that there is a fair degree of buck-passing going on right now within BT but we will not let this slide by. I met the BT Product Manager in BT Centre last week and he has raised this as a High Level Complaint for us. We are awaiting their investigation and we will report back to you when they reveal their findings.
In the meantime we'll be pursuing them yet again concerning the events of today.
Regards
Simon
Thanks, Simon. If you get someone to kick, can we all join in please? ;)
I wonder if BT evr have this happen to their OWN customers? If they can get it right on their own connections, they have no right to mess up IDNets!
Couldn't agree more, Ben.
sobranie: As I understand the backup hostlink is hardware independent of the primary hostlink. So, theoretically, if it were working properly, it should fall-over elegantly without problems as Rik said. There shouldn't be need for a third hostlink unless the primary fails, and the secondary fails, which would be very unlikely. A configuration error will obviously wipe out *both*, because neither knows how to route the data. No amount of hostlinks will fix a configuration fault.
Personally I think one could have infinite hostlinks, but with BT administration, it would still fall over somehow.
Simply put, I can understand both side of the argument here -- but the simple conclusion is, if there were an IDNet quality LLU ISP .... well, we'd all be there.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 20:07:36
What I know at this point.
1) IDNet rent a hostlink (chunk of fibre and terminations etc) from BT, which connects their customers to their network via BT's network. These hostlinks are supplied over two sets of fibre, one live, one there as a fallback should the first fail. That fallback should be transparent to customers, ie it should happen before you notice a lost connection.
2) A week or so back, someone at BT wiped IDNet's configuration from the system, effectively BT ceased to recognise them as a customer, so it was impossible to connect as an IDNet customer.
3) Today, the primary hostlink failed. The secondary took over, but would only connect ADSL Max customers due to a configuration problem. That took BT several hours to fix and, last time I heard, they still hadn't repaired the primary link. Connections started coming back late this afternoon, then, around 7, BT broke all connections. These started to return around 7:45.
As yet, BT have not given a satisfactory explanation for any of this.
Hey Rik thanks for the explanations and update mate.
Your efforts are truly apreciated.
Back up to around 3 megs now
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 20:27:01
Thanks, Simon. If you get someone to kick, can we all join in please? ;)
A picture would do... as long as it's good enough to make a wax model from :evil:
And as said before. AFAIK most ISPs have to negotiate around the net anyway. So you will, at some point, probably cross a pipe/server owned by BT (just like having to pass their office along a road). Then things start to go wrong. :(
Quote from: Simon_idnet on Oct 20, 2010, 20:25:47
In the meantime we'll be pursuing them yet again concerning the events of today.
Beyond an abject apology, are BT obliged to compensate you for loss of service?
Another customer here who's not happy. I don't want compensation I want uptime and reliability, then speed. That's why I'm happy to pay the little bit extra.
I work remotely, currently while I like idnet and their service is superb for individual problems, I have no confidence in the idnet/bt supply. I'm looking for an explanation and reassurance. If it's bt at fault an apology and acknowledgement of the inconvenience caused would help.
Last chance saloon...
Hope our posts here can be used as evidence of the impact to bt.
We've made sure IDNet are aware of this thread.
Rik, we are all BT customers by proxy, so I think we should all be able to send complaints to BT.
Why not have some kind of reduced bandwidth stand-by with say Clueless & Witless (or any other network provider) for a 'non-elegant' failover for when things go completely gummage? I'd rather have a really slow and rubbish connection than no connection at all.
A 1 month rolling customer contract cannot be good for idnet right now. I know they have it in place because they are confident that people will not want to move because of the service. If BT keep messing up then it's bound to affect business which is why the ISP should be compensated. My comments earlier about extra bandwidth compo was tongue in cheek but I completely echo the comments made a few minutes ago. I am happy to pay a little extra for a service which is reliable and fast. Maybe we should all move to South Korea where they will soon have 1GB broadband :)
Quote from: Conrad on Oct 20, 2010, 20:36:28
Rik, we are all BT customers by proxy, so I think we should all be able to send complaints to BT.
Believe me, I've been to the top and merely got told to talk to IDNet. :(
QuoteWhy not have some kind of reduced bandwidth stand-by with say Clueless & Witless (or any other network provider) for a 'non-elegant' failover for when things go completely gummage? I'd rather have a really slow and rubbish connection than no connection at all.
The cost would be significant, would customers pay extra for the increased reliability. Bear in mind that BT have been responsible for two major outages this year, but that between them they only accounted for some 13 hours of downtime for the worst hit users, less for many. I make that a downtime of about .15% (though my maths may be wrong :)). Paying for a complete extra network to cover such a scenario would be a significant cost, and technically I'm not sure it could be done.
Quote from: Technical Ben on Oct 20, 2010, 20:27:48
I wonder if BT evr have this happen to their OWN customers? If they can get it right on their own connections, they have no right to mess up IDNets!
:thumb:
absolutely spot on i'd say.. the conspiracy theorists among us might end up thinking that the outages were more 'by design' than by fault, the precision and and effect of the faults causing total disruption at the level it has has certainly had the desired effect with the 'rival ISP's customer base' after all, check the replies above.. noones happy about this in the slightest, me included.
but i'm not paranoid, i'll put my faith in IDNET once more i think.. but i urge idnet to please.. please begin communicating more effectively to its customer base after these 'events' so there is less conjecture. We realise that you've had problems getting information out of BT, but ultimately further down the line your customer base feels we are not getting informatio either and its took this long for us to be told you've not had any info from BT yet aswell.
Never ever put something down to conspiracy when incompetence is possible.
Also I would not ever consider a 1 month contract to be a Bad Thing. I pretty much only ever sign up to communications providers of any sort that have less than a 3 month contract for remote offices and the like. It's obviously different for major installations but for this sort of end user... yeah, I feel far far more comfortable with 1 month contracts.
Edit: just for the record, I have very high latency right now. But this might be things settling down.
Quote from: esh on Oct 20, 2010, 20:29:17
sobranie: As I understand the backup hostlink is hardware independent of the primary hostlink. So, theoretically, if it were working properly, it should fall-over elegantly without problems as Rik said. There shouldn't be need for a third hostlink unless the primary fails, and the secondary fails, which would be very unlikely. A configuration error will obviously wipe out *both*, because neither knows how to route the data. No amount of hostlinks will fix a configuration fault.
The primary and backup both failed as far as I'm concerned Esh. Unlikely .... yes but in view of the fact thatI've had absolutely nil connx for most of the day I must presume they BOTH fell over elegantly or otherwise, hence my thoughts on having a 3rd option which is not dependant on the same hardware as that which failed.
So, the basic question is ... How much would this cost and would punters be prepared to pay extra for access to this link.
Both link's same time???
Doubt it probarly more than likely someone deleted config, this would/could happen simultaneously to both router's.
That or BT are being there normal pain in the AR****
They may *appear* to have both failed but this isn't true, and more host links would not help.
Primary link failed. 20CN -> secondary. 21CN -> stuck on primary, hence down (BT configuration error). There was also some issue with 21CN authentication which appeared to be some other fault, unsure if it was related. If your DSL will not authenticate, then again, your data doesn't even get to the hostlinks.
Quote from: sobranie on Oct 20, 2010, 20:55:46
The primary and backup both failed as far as I'm concerned Esh. Unlikely .... yes but in view of the fact thatI've had absolutely nil connx for most of the day I must presume they BOTH fell over elegantly or otherwise, hence my thoughts on having a 3rd option which is not dependant on the same hardware as that which failed.
So, the basic question is ... How much would this cost and would punters be prepared to pay extra for access to this link.
That's the key question, Rick. It would be possible to build a network with enough redundancy to survive all but nuclear attack, but would anyone pay for it?
I hear what you say about the failure today, but one link did switch transparently, but only Max customers. Anyone on 21CN, fibre or ADSL2+ couldn't log in. My instinct is that the issues of the 10th weren't fully resolved and today's events showed up where BT had gone wrong.
Ultimately, we may all be paying the price for an excess of savings at BT. Too few staff, in particular too few experienced staff, may lay behind all this.
Well mines now back up. which is good.
an explanation from BT would be nice.
Wouldn't it just. I think they're out buying a new load of scapegoats right now. >:(
Or there planning a takeover.
I assume this latency is going to clear up. I will monitor things until the morning.
I'm getting the bloody "BT Wholesale Service Information" on some websites now. :mad:
(Yes I have restarted the modem/router and yes I have flushed DNS)
Quote from: esh on Oct 20, 2010, 21:07:56
I assume this latency is going to clear up. I will monitor things until the morning.
I'm only seeing a very small increase, 14 to 15ms, which could easily be down to the time of night - I really must go and eat soon. ;)
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 20, 2010, 21:08:13
I'm getting the bloody "BT Wholesale Service Information" on some websites now. :mad:
(Yes I have restarted the modem/router and yes I have flushed DNS)
Any examples, Griff?
Are you saying that ADSL Max customers were not affected? Because thats not my experience.
My connection wasn't available when I got in at about 5 and it went down again an hour later, I was moved from ADSL 2 back to Max when I had the HR fault, IDNET confirmed this to me only a few of weeks back.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 21:00:31It would be possible to build a network with enough redundancy to survive all but nuclear attack, but would anyone pay for it?
That's how (and why) the original version of the internet (ArpaNet) was conceived... and if BT had implemented their infrastructure properly it would have the same resilience.
You don't need dozens of pieces of hardware to achieve it, just properly configured (!) links between connection points to provide alternate paths.
Quote from: gingerjedi on Oct 20, 2010, 21:12:50
Are you saying that ADSL Max customers were not affected? Because thats not my experience.
My connection wasn't available when I got in at about 5 and it went down again an hour later, I was moved from ADSL 2 back to Max when I had the HR fault, IDNET confirmed this to me only a few of weeks back.
No one has said Adsl Max was not affected. The details are on the status page showing what and when occurred.
Quote from: Bill on Oct 20, 2010, 21:14:06
That's how (and why) the original version of the internet (ArpaNet) was conceived... and if BT had implemented their infrastructure properly it would have the same resilience.
You don't need dozens of pieces of hardware to achieve it, just properly configured (!) links between connection points to provide alternate paths.
I couldn't agree with you more, Bill. BT's metro nodes fill be with a sense of horror - Stepney Green falls over and takes the country with it - it's crazy.
Had a quick connection drop about 20 minutes ago. Not sure if it was PPP or sync as I was at the shop at the time. Router log is useless.
Both my lines have been up solidly since ~19:40, speeds and latency normal.
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 21:11:26
Any examples, Griff?
http://www.nango-gamers.co.uk/forum/
http://www.andalucia.com/forums/index.php
Both give me the BTW SI message onscreen. Most of my other bookmarks are fine.
Quote from: gingerjedi on Oct 20, 2010, 21:12:50
Are you saying that ADSL Max customers were not affected? Because thats not my experience.
My connection wasn't available when I got in at about 5 and it went down again an hour later, I was moved from ADSL 2 back to Max when I had the HR fault, IDNET confirmed this to me only a few of weeks back.
Same here - router logs show I've been having CHAP authentication failures since midnight (Home SuperMAx package)
Straight in on both, Griff. :dunno:
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 21:22:17
Straight in on both, Griff. :dunno:
Ditto.
Well. It was exciting while it lasted. I'm with you there Rik, on the "that's only 0.15% downtime". 8736 hours in a year. Let's be very generous and say it's 24 hours downtime (12 last time, 12 this time. even though that is not true, it may be how long it takes for people to get back from work, and try again later). That is still less than 0.003% downtime.*
My parents net was dying all the time a year or so ago. BT used their "scapegoat" phrase back then of "we will send a new router". The difference is, IDNet is transparent and honest. If this had been BT, it would have all been hush hush and denials. The customers would have been given a call centre message of "you must restart your PC. You have a virus" and customers are none the wiser to the real error.
So :thumb: to IDNet for still working hard amongst the evil giants.
*Do 364 divided by 1 day. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 21:22:17
Straight in on both, Griff. :dunno:
Zappa can you try if you see this message (Zappa being another FTTC customer)
Quote from: Rik on Oct 20, 2010, 21:18:18
Both my lines have been up solidly since ~19:40, speeds and latency normal.
My BQM is showing a slight increase in pings and lost packets, but I assume that's because BT haven't got both host links working yet and you lot are getting in my way?
:P
;D
It shouldn't be, Bill, but I'll go an eat now and give you some extra space. ;)
Updated: 20 October 2010 21:11:17
Status:In Progress
Message: The outage this evening was caused by an Openreach engineer testing the wrong ciruit - he took the live circuit off line, tested it and declared it operational! We're sending them back to fix the circuit that is still down.
I know things can go wrong, but flippin 'eck... unbelievable incompetence :o ???
Quote from: jameshurrell on Oct 20, 2010, 21:27:21
Updated: 20 October 2010 21:11:17
Status:In Progress
Message: The outage this evening was caused by an Openreach engineer testing the wrong ciruit - he took the live circuit off line, tested it and declared it operational! We're sending them back to fix the circuit that is still down.
I know things can go wrong, but flippin 'eck... unbelievable incompetence :o ???
Sounds like the berk I had here a couple of years ago ::) ::)
Someone said they were on ADSL but it still died. Riks explained, but I thought I'd ramble on as well, as always. :red:
OH. If you are on an ASDL2+ Exchange it would effect you as well. This is because when the exchange is upgraded, they rip out the old ADSL hardware. So you were on a virtual ADSL, but running on ADSL2+ hardware. Confusing I know.
The problem appeared to be...
1) Last week BT deleted all the server details that run our internet through IDNet. It got put back thankfully.
2) Some time today, something went wrong with one of the two Hostlinks. The ADSL customers got transferred instantly (not even noticeable) to the spare Hostlink. This is what the backup is for. Like all things, sometimes it breaks. But it's suppose to cope!
3) It appears, from 1) that the ASDL2+ customers where not restored to the backup hostlink. So their connection died.
4) Something happened getting the ASDL2+ customers onto the second hostlink, so everyone dropped off.
5) we are all now back on hostlink 2, and an Openreach engineer is turning on Hostlink 1 ASAP. I say "turning on" he might end up pressing the "self destruct" button!
:eek4:
Quote from: jameshurrell on Oct 20, 2010, 21:27:21
Updated: 20 October 2010 21:11:17
Status:In Progress
Message: The outage this evening was caused by an Openreach engineer testing the wrong ciruit - he took the live circuit off line, tested it and declared it operational! We're sending them back to fix the circuit that is still down.
I know things can go wrong, but flippin 'eck... unbelievable incompetence :o ???
I hope that doesn't mean we're due for a third outage then when BT are back on site to 'fix' it again :(
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Oct 20, 2010, 21:16:07
No one has said Adsl Max was not affected. The details are on the status page showing what and when occurred.
"2010-10-20 13:30: ADSL Max lines on the 20C broadband network are successfully failing over to the working BT Gigabit link but ADSL2+ lines on the 21C network are not. BT are diagnosing".
Thats how I read it?
I'm new to IDNet (about a month), and after two outages I'm already looking to move elsewhere. :-\
Quote from: Technical Ben on Oct 20, 2010, 21:23:57
Well. It was exciting while it lasted. I'm with you there Rik, on the "that's only 0.15% downtime". 8736 hours in a year. Let's be very generous and say it's 24 hours downtime (12 last time, 12 this time. even though that is not true, it may be how long it takes for people to get back from work, and try again later). That is still less than 0.003% downtime.*
My parents net was dying all the time a year or so ago. BT used their "scapegoat" phrase back then of "we will send a new router". The difference is, IDNet is transparent and honest. If this had been BT, it would have all been hush hush and denials. The customers would have been given a call centre message of "you must restart your PC. You have a virus" and customers are none the wiser to the real error.
So :thumb: to IDNet for still working hard amongst the evil giants.
*Do 364 divided by 1 day. ;)
Some of us had 3 days straight downtime earlier this year. Would you be as chipper if it happened to you?
Quote from: gingerjedi on Oct 20, 2010, 21:34:59
"2010-10-20 13:30: ADSL Max lines on the 20C broadband network are successfully failing over to the working BT Gigabit link but ADSL2+ lines on the 21C network are not. BT are diagnosing".
Thats how I read it?
ADSL Max was affected when a switch was made, you however as Ben explained are NOT on adsl max your exchange was upgraded which means there is no Max equipment there now. You are still on the ADSL2+ kit but the line is re modulated to Max speeds.
Quote from: DorsetBoy on Oct 20, 2010, 21:38:22
ADSL Max was affected when a switch was made, you however as Ben explained are NOT on adsl max your exchange was upgraded which means there is no Max equipment there now. You are still on the ADSL2+ kit but the line is re modulated to Max speeds.
I get it now.
Rik posted @2100 .......... It would be possible to build a network with enough redundancy to survive all but nuclear attack ............
Amendment list 1
Delete 'nuclear attack'
Insert 'Openreach engineer dickhead.
list ends
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 20, 2010, 21:20:22
http://www.nango-gamers.co.uk/forum/
http://www.andalucia.com/forums/index.php
Both give me the BTW SI message onscreen. Most of my other bookmarks are fine.
Both work for me Griff, I think it's something down your end with either the modem or the router not correctly obtaining DNS or something related.
My ping timers have increased to 22-23 ms apparantly (a 4ms~ increase) and the line is showing some packet loss already....
There does seem to be more packet loss at the mo.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/384001474ce847e5f04beb8e40421f43.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/384001474ce847e5f04beb8e40421f43.html)
I have average 90ms latency (from 15ms) with spikes to 2000ms, this is 1 minute averages.
I have read this thread with interest and I must say I am amazed at the attitude by some posters. If you use your computer for gaming and social then it is a inconvenience at most. If you use the computer for business (as I do) then it can be very annoying but in the end the problem is effecting Idnet but is caused by BT. So ask your self why would you leave a company that does it's best to look after you and does not tie you up with a long contract. In the end thats like saying "I'm not going to use my local petrol station because the tanker driver crashed and they run out of fuel for a whole day" So think before you leap or you could be in the fire. ;D
Perhaps I'm wrong but I'm not expecting latency to recover until the primary hostlink is up again.
Still no service here in Newbury. I have rebooted the modem a couple of times but ADSL sync light has just been flashing at me since around 7PM. Prior to this it was sync'ing but getting that 172.x IP.
Am I the only one with this particular problem?
Have you tried powering down for 30 mins silverblade?
I think people are just saying they can move to an ISP without BT dependence -- and think that perhaps a lesser ISP without BT might be as good as IDNet with BT, or better. It sounds harsh, and it's obviously very hard to determine if such an assumption is true.
The long and short of it is: this is still less hassle than my last ISP and I have guaranteed support. I am not going to move. People who have had more trouble have every right to move. I would be surprised if IDNet expect everyone to stay with these issues; this is life. People have priorities, and limits. I trust them enough to give the truth as it is about these issues. It seems to be that a decent home router is now more reliable than the BT ones, and this is a troublesome state to be in for anyone.
In the end, IDNet have this one month contract to allow people to try other ISPs, and people who have a tendency to move might try another and come back again -- it's not so much an issue to move ISP these days (with luck). It's a hard position to be in, and very sad. No matter what BT say, it really doesn't matter at this point. They can give excuses, and if they say there is something in there to avoid this happening again, do we really believe them?
It's a personal choice, based upon personal experience and feelings on these issues. Trying to influence people one way or the other I think is utterly irrelevant here. If IDNet give us the facts, that's good enough for me. Unfortunately for BT, the facts look rather embarrassing.
Please see this post, from Tim:
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=22651.0
Quote from: Den on Oct 20, 2010, 22:20:35
I have read this thread with interest and I must say I am amazed at the attitude by some posters. If you use your computer for gaming and social then it is a inconvenience at most. If you use the computer for business (as I do) then it can be very annoying but in the end the problem is effecting Idnet but is caused by BT. So ask your self why would you leave a company that does it's best to look after you and does not tie you up with a long contract. In the end thats like saying "I'm not going to use my local petrol station because the tanker driver crashed and they run out of fuel for a whole day" So think before you leap or you could be in the fire. ;D
I agree Den, I was with Orange before Idnet and know how bad connection problems can get. I also had problems with script monkeys telling me my router/computer must be at fault when I knew it was their service. What I like about Idnet is they tell you they have a problem and then endeavour to sort it out.
I have no intention of moving to another provider.
Yes, lozcart. My last provider had my DSL down for a *week*, after a very long phonecall they claimed it was my equipment and then it suddenly started working again shortly after the call. Hard to not suspect gross incompetence there.
Anyway, this is how it looks today right now:
(http://garagos.net/static/status_rrd_graph_img_16hrs_20102010_2232.png)
Pretty ugly right now as far as lag goes. I'll see how it pans out.
From Tim_IDNet
Quote
We have requested a meeting with BT Management for these reassurances and we will keep you posted on our discussions. However, it's clear now that we can't rely on BT alone - the risk to our business is too great. Therefore we are in the process of opening discussions with additional suppliers and we will keep you posted on how these discussions progress.
Now that sounds interesting! ;D
Quote from: Den on Oct 20, 2010, 22:20:35
I have read this thread with interest and I must say I am amazed at the attitude by some posters. If you use your computer for gaming and social then it is a inconvenience at most. If you use the computer for business (as I do) then it can be very annoying but in the end the problem is effecting Idnet but is caused by BT. So ask your self why would you leave a company that does it's best to look after you and does not tie you up with a long contract. In the end thats like saying "I'm not going to use my local petrol station because the tanker driver crashed and they run out of fuel for a whole day" So think before you leap or you could be in the fire. ;D
Yes, it's hardly the worst that could happen. However, I think you underestimate three things. First, the ease with which people can move provider means the market as a whole is a lot less forgiving these days regardless of who may or may not be at fault when a problem occurs. Second, people have twigged that using an ISP locked into BT is using a potential hostage. Third, I was a customer of Demon Internet a few years ago. The discussions on their mailing lists over constant service failures would have filled hundreds of pages, not twenty. In the end, sometimes the only way to stop it is simply to go elsewhere because the whole system is borked (organizationally, not only or not even technically) and tinkering around doesn't fix it. I'm not suggesting IDNet's system is borked at all, either, as they've always struck me as an excellent outift. However, a system elsewhere in which an engineer can flick a switch and wipe out entire company configurations or disconnect tens or hundreds of thousands of users, with apparently no checks and balances and no financial consequences for their employer, strikes me as a mightily borked system. Imagine if that switch was connected to a missile instead of a telephone line. Would you consider such a system a robust and secure arrangement?
Quote from: .Griff. on Oct 20, 2010, 21:08:13
I'm getting the bloody "BT Wholesale Service Information" on some websites now. :mad:
(Yes I have restarted the modem/router and yes I have flushed DNS)
After the initial problems that occurred a couple of months ago I had the same issue from time to time. After last week's problems I had it all the time (every URL hijacked to to BT Wholesale. The only way I could resolve it was to enter the DNS addresses into the TCP/IP setting on every device connected to my network.
Quote from: Fish on Oct 20, 2010, 22:44:47
Imagine if that switch was connected to a missile instead of a telephone line. Would you consider it a robust and secure arrangement?
As long as the connection wasnt with BT i would consider it to be more robust and secure :)
QuoteMessage: The outage this evening was caused by an Openreach engineer testing the wrong circuit - he took the live circuit off line, tested it and declared it operational! We're sending them back to fix the circuit that is still down.
Words fail me. Wouldn't it be better NOT to send them back at all?
Quote from: Simon on Oct 20, 2010, 22:30:17
Please see this post, from Tim:
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=22651.0
Part of Tim' post
Quote////Moreover, on each occasion we have given them timely and accurate synopses of the likely root of the fault which has been ignored in favour of following pre-set procedures. In our opinion valuable time was wasted in following unintelligent fault flow-charts fruitlessly. We want to make them listen to us!
Unquote////
The script monkeys are taking over the world methinks. How absolutely soul destroying for the staff at IDNet.
Quote from: Simon on Oct 20, 2010, 22:30:17
Please see this post, from Tim:
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=22651.0
I certainly applaud any effort on behalf of IDNet to expand or provide alternate lines and services. I'm sure it must be costly, but I for one sincerely hope it is something that will pay off -- or perhaps, as Tim indicates, it's more a matter of paying some hard cash now to avoid disaster.
Will wait with anticipation anyway.
Quote from: Simon on Oct 20, 2010, 22:30:17
Please see this post, from Tim:
http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=22651.0
Good to see this; that's exactly the response I'd hope to see at this stage. Let's hope they have some success in knocking down some of the BT walls, and getting some worthwhile reassurances from them, or else finding better alternatives from other suppliers. If I were them, I'd certainly be tempted to talk to the regulator as well about BT's failure to live up to the performance responsibilities of their monopoly situation; even if they don't get anywhere it will serve as a notice of serious intent and act as a warning shot.
Perhaps a few thousand emails from members to Ian Livingstone would help buck BT's ideas up a little.
At the end of the day yes downtime is inconvenient but most (apx 70%) of you have option of LLU or Virgin as either a replacement or backup.
if i had the choice i would have a cable (virgin) as a backup or LLU, I do not have a choice and am stuck with an antiquated exchange supplied by BT and IDnet as my provider, i like IDnet as they at least care and have a good package line up, Yes dearer than some but at least in my opinion the pipes are genrally congestion free.
I am looking at a router that supports 3G as a back up as internet for me is a critical tool (i am a remote engineer for a telecommunications company (no not BT or Virgin))
If I am on-call i need internet, at present i have a 3G dongle i can stick in my laptop, mess around with the software for 20 minutes (it is that unreliable) discover my credits expired, top it up and then finally actually get on the net. Or i drive 5 miles to my local McDonalds and nick there wi-fi-thats what i did on the last outage.
Router with 3G backup seems the way forward to make it more reliable and easier (and will help to keep my weight down)
ADSL I am at the Mercy of BT (althougth both phone lines and internet are with IDnet).
I would just like to say thank you to Simon & Tim, I expect they are now having sleepless night's and i know they are doing what they can for us there customer's.
And before anyone say's anything i have no connection with IDnet or any of it's staff apart from being a standard customer.
Dean
Having suffered far worse under Pipex (who were also very good when they started), I will be staying with IDNet for now - but I'm surprised they don't seem to have an adequate SLA with BT. Where I used to work, we had SLAs with all customers that specified the various levels of compensation for failures - levels of potential penalties that made it financially necessary for our systems to be secure, multiply redundant, with transparent offsite hardware failover, and no-one, but no-one, who wasn't fully trained and competent and on the production support team, was allowed anywhere near the production system and its network links.
Is it just that BT won't agree to SLAs that could inconvenience them?
Quote from: Den on Oct 20, 2010, 22:20:35
I have read this thread with interest and I must say I am amazed at the attitude by some posters. If you use your computer for gaming and social then it is a inconvenience at most. If you use the computer for business (as I do) then it can be very annoying but in the end the problem is effecting Idnet but is caused by BT. So ask your self why would you leave a company that does it's best to look after you and does not tie you up with a long contract. In the end thats like saying "I'm not going to use my local petrol station because the tanker driver crashed and they run out of fuel for a whole day" So think before you leap or you could be in the fire. ;D
It is becoming apparent to me that, for whatever reason, Idnet's relationship with BT is not working.
Apart from the recent major system failures with BT's poor response to them, similar cracks are appearing in Support's ability to get BT to repair line faults.
I have had a line fault and a 750 profile since 4th October and after wasting a week while the line was "tweaked", I requested that the fault be reported to BT on 11th, it was not reported to BT until the next day.
On 15th I chased up Idnet Support and was told that BT could find no fault on the line and a Technician's visit to my home was necessary, but no-one had processed that requirement.
An appointment was made for a BT visit on 20th between 8am and 1pm, no-one turned up and so at 2pm I asked Idnet to give BT a nudge and learnt that BT's systems had rejected the appointment, but had not told Idnet.
Everyone tells me how sorry they are, I accept Idnet are doing their very damn-est to help me and that attempts to get a visit are being escalated, BUT I still do not have an appointment.
A friend elsewhere had a line fault in August and reported it to his ISP ( AAISP ). BT messed up his visit too, but AAISP seem to have contacts at BT that got his repair done next day.
BT are not interested in Idnet and like everyone else I have been with fantastic small ISPs ( such as Pipex ) who I would not touch with a barge pole now. I certainly don't want to leave Idnet, but I won't stay if failures continue, just because they are "Idnet"
Idnet are right to seriously look for additional infrastructure outside BT.
Idnet's biggest worry should be that it's customer base is not price sensitive.
If you are happy with Idnet's pricing then you can afford to move to any other decent ISP and all these now have 30 day contracts too.
Still nothing here, modem is showing "DSL carrier is down" in logs. Have left it off overnight.
Power down your router for about 20 minutes and then reconnect, it should log onto the working connection.
I think you need to talk to support as you have no sync with the exchange.
I have turned it off for 30 mins as suggested and then overnight. Also left message with support last night. Whatever is wrong happened at the same time as connection drop yesterday evening that affected everyone.
As far as I am away your log report shows that no dsl signal was identified by your modem, when we all lost connection yesterday no one should have lost sync with the exchange as you have.
Quote from: Fish on Oct 20, 2010, 22:44:47
...........However, a system elsewhere in which an engineer can flick a switch and wipe out entire company configurations or disconnect tens or hundreds of thousands of users, with apparently no checks and balances and no financial consequences for their employer, strikes me as a mightily borked system. Imagine if that switch was connected to a missile instead of a telephone line. Would you consider such a system a robust and secure arrangement?
I moved from NILDRAM (also once a small ISP) a year ago because Tiscali bought them and it was only a matter of time before my calls ended up in India. However there is no point in having a UK voice on the phone if BT ignore them as they clearly have since the last outage.
I agree with 'Fish' above and also agree with previous posters that BT obviously don't consider IDNET's business of any importance. Clearly working "with" BT has not worked. Some times 'nice' gets misinterpreted for 'weak'. Perhaps IDNET need to hire someone who is not "nice".
Steve
I've just had a PPP drop now for 30 secs.
I've not seen one here, Steve.
Mine's been fine since I reconnected at 19:41:09 last night. But like you Steve, I am on Max also.
Saying that though, I have been kicked down to a DownStream Connection Speed of 7904 kbps! Not that it matters as I can't get anything above 140 Kbps anyway :rant2:
Thanks to the amazing throughput, I am slowly adjusting to a life without "high-speed" broadband and wasn't phased when the connection dropped yesterday or last week. I can't do any speed sensitive actions (such as online gaming, youtube, iplayer, downloading) anyway...
Quote from: Steve on Oct 21, 2010, 09:09:01
I've just had a PPP drop now for 30 secs.
Nothing here, but I usually get one or two of those over a week. Unless I'm unlucky with the timing, I only notice them by the red blip on the BQM.
Quote from: g7pkf on Oct 21, 2010, 01:26:02
At the end of the day yes downtime is inconvenient but most (apx 70%) of you have option of LLU or Virgin as either a replacement or backup.
if i had the choice i would have a cable (virgin) as a backup or LLU, I do not have a choice and am stuck with an antiquated exchange supplied by BT and IDnet as my provider, i like IDnet as they at least care and have a good package line up, Yes dearer than some but at least in my opinion the pipes are genrally congestion free.
I am looking at a router that supports 3G as a back up as internet for me is a critical tool (i am a remote engineer for a telecommunications company (no not BT or Virgin))
If I am on-call i need internet, at present i have a 3G dongle i can stick in my laptop, mess around with the software for 20 minutes (it is that unreliable) discover my credits expired, top it up and then finally actually get on the net. Or i drive 5 miles to my local McDonalds and nick there wi-fi-thats what i did on the last outage.
Router with 3G backup seems the way forward to make it more reliable and easier (and will help to keep my weight down)
ADSL I am at the Mercy of BT (althougth both phone lines and internet are with IDnet).
I would just like to say thank you to Simon & Tim, I expect they are now having sleepless night's and i know they are doing what they can for us there customer's.
And before anyone say's anything i have no connection with IDnet or any of it's staff apart from being a standard customer.
Dean
You might want to try the three mifi device, you don't have to change any of your home setup as the device gives out a wireless signal for upto 5 devices to connect.
You can also unlock them to use other 3G sim cards.
On a good day I can get speeds of 3mb down and 1.5mb up.
http://www.three.co.uk/Mobile_Broadband/MiFi
Just a few comments from me on the outages. I've not contributed to any of the threads as yet, although I did suffer the outage last night and also one week ago.
Emotions are running high at the moment and many folk are expressing the gut reaction that even though these outages are not IDNet's fault they would be better with another ISP.
I honestly think people should think long and hard before making this decision. Sure, IDNet service (thanks to that great top heavy, inefficient, incompetent and uncaring mammoth called BT) has been down a couple of times in the last ten days or so. But how does that compare to the many months of efficient service that has been provided outside of the problem times? What about the excellent free UK customer service that is available if required.
Guys, let the dust settle and then have a good think. I've been with several previous ISP's and although IDNet is not the cheapest it is, (IMHO), by far the best for my needs.
I'm not an IDNet fanboy, I'm too old for that. If the IDNet service fell to the same level as some other ISP's, such as those taken over by large anonymous providers, then I would be off.
However, we are nowhere near that at present.
I know people need connections for different reasons, but for me personally, the downtimes remind me that there's a life 'offline'. I am not considering leaving IDNet over this, and am looking forward to hearing what future plans have been made, and what the responses from BT will be to these events.
I just want to say how much I appreciate the way IDNet handles problems when they do arise, as has happened over the last week or so with the two BT faults. In the past, when I had another provider and things went wrong, I would be left in limbo, anxious and tense, not knowing when or even if my connection would be restored (or when my phone call to support would be answered). Now, on the very rare occasions when I lose my connection, I feel pretty relaxed, thinking IDNet a) knows it's happening, b) is doing something about it, and c) will make sure it works.
It's so refreshing to deal with a company that shows a genuine commitment to providing an excellent service to its customers. I just hope that Simon and Tim never get fed up and sell the business!
(I just posted this message under the 'Regarding today's outage and next steps' thread, but realised it fits better here.)
Quote from: Steve on Oct 21, 2010, 09:09:01
I've just had a PPP drop now for 30 secs.
Forget that I'm losing sync occasionally - it never rains but what it pours
Quote from: Simon on Oct 21, 2010, 10:28:23
the downtimes remind me that there's a life 'offline'.
There is? no one told me! ;D
Hehe,
The whole reason why I'm going back to a 9 - 6 full time job so I can have my spare time back that freelancing has took away.
Like last night, I had a call from someone in Texas at 12:30am, now thats just rude! :rant2:
Quote from: sobranie on Oct 20, 2010, 21:40:57
Rik posted @2100 .......... It would be possible to build a network with enough redundancy to survive all but nuclear attack ............
Amendment list 1
Delete 'nuclear attack'
Insert 'Openreach engineer dickhead.
list ends
:rofl:
For your information,
My latency is slowly returning to normal since around 2am. Now back to ~20ms from 150ms on 1 minute averages.
Mine is slap bang on normal today.
Quote from: esh on Oct 21, 2010, 11:09:24
For your information,
My latency is slowly returning to normal since around 2am. Now back to ~20ms from 150ms on 1 minute averages.
Mines been alittle higher than normal today with more packet loss but will give it to tomorrow before I contact support.
psp; I was on about 10ms before so it is still a little high. I am also waiting to see what happens.
actually taking alook at my tbb monitor, packet loss has stopped and my ping have got higher.
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-large/168d96794fbf3c748082dbbd4ce15cb3-21-10-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/168d96794fbf3c748082dbbd4ce15cb3-21-10-2010.html)
Most of the packet loss coincides with the outages, of course, Paul.
As inconvenient as these few loss of services have been, I remain a happy bunny with IDNet. Their lack of traffic management make them an instant winner for me, combined with their usually excellent support (I've spent over an hour on the phone to them one time going through all my cabling and pinging routers and other stuff to fix a problem). However, one thing I didn't understand was why they closed their support line yesterday. Maybe they were too busy trying to fix the fault to be able to run the helpline as well. Anyway I left a message on the answer phone and someone called me back later on.
In short, 2 blemmishes on IDNet's uptime this year is nothing really. It looks worse than it is because they both happened within a short time frame of eachother.
You're right about the short time-frame, klipp. I think if they'd been months apart we'd all have been a bit more relaxed.
As to the answering machine, it was a faster way of telling people about the problem than having them wait in a queue.
Quote from: 6jb on Oct 21, 2010, 10:16:45
...
I honestly think people should think long and hard before making this decision. Sure, IDNet service (thanks to that great top heavy, inefficient, incompetent and uncaring mammoth called BT) has been down a couple of times in the last ten days or so. But how does that compare to the many months of efficient service that has been provided outside of the problem times? What about the excellent free UK customer service that is available if required.
... [shortened for quote]
I'm with you there. I was on O2 first. They blatantly LIED to customers for 3 years or more. Imagine having 3 years of disconnects and low throughput and not knowing why. I'm glad I was only with them for 30 days. I'd never have the speed and reliability I have now. Granted, I got the same speed during the day. But only with IDNet do I get that all day, all week. With O2, It was like a yo-yo.
[edit] I suppose there was nothing support could actually do for customers at the time. So a message was best. Until BT had been sorted out* IDNet could not help customers on an individual basis. The lines were, so to speak, "down".
* :rub:
O2 ADSL is the pits, which I was very surprised about considering how good their mobile customer service is.
Quote from: pctech on Oct 21, 2010, 13:18:07
O2 ADSL is the pits, which I was very surprised about considering how good their mobile customer service is.
And their LLU, which is basically BE re-branded (not even resold AFAIK).
I suppose they picked up a service they could never, or never intended to, supply or afford.
Like I said, I would have been happy, if they had been honest. I'd still be with them, even with the bad connections. As I'd know when/how/if it was to be fixed.
As you probably know, O2 own BE.
That's what I meant. Some companies have separate systems. Some companies, have a sticker on the phone saying "if o2 call don't mention you work for BE, if BE call, don't mention you work for O2" as they are the same office/software/hardware. But the customers are made to think there are 2 companies. :dunno:
When I was on O2 I ran a couple of trace routes and the reverse DNS entries for the routers all referred to bethere rather than O2.
Still no connection here. Mailed and phoned support, was told that everything tested fine and to try different equipment/filter.
Filter swap made no difference, I took the modem round a friends place and it got a DSL carrier with no trouble at all. No luck with using the test socket either.
When I phoned I was assured that the outage could not have caused the problem I am now experiencing. Yet between the time I got home around 6 and the time of the outage yetsterday evening, I had a connection. As soon as I lost DSL carrier I checked this forum on my phone and found that other users had also lost internet connection. I seem to be the only person who has lost DSL signal at that point.
I'm sure that the equipment involved in this problem and the outage yesterday must be completely different pieces of kit and probably in totally different locations, but it just seems a little too coincidental...
DSL sync is between your router and exchange, ring support and leave a message stating no connection, I'm pretty sure they'll come back to you.
I think you've been unlucky.
Quote from: silverblade on Oct 21, 2010, 19:40:30
I'm sure that the equipment involved in this problem and the outage yesterday must be completely different pieces of kit and probably in totally different locations, but it just seems a little too coincidental...
There have been three outages reported, West Drayton, Druid's Hill & Peterborough.
I was affected by the West Drayton one, and lost about 1M in sync when the line re-connected. A re-boot this morning did nothing, but this afternoon it regained the speed. Support were aware of at least one other case of this speed loss through that MUX, but I've not heard of any connection losses there.
Any chance of testing another router on your line?
Is this a sign the entire infrastructure is falling apart? :red:
I had a courtesy call from Miriam today just to check if everything was working! She also gave me some details about yesterday's outage. I like that.
Please send her my regards.
:thumb:
Quote from: Technical Ben on Oct 21, 2010, 20:20:01
Is this a sign the entire infrastructure is falling apart? :red:
Probably
EDIT: After another modem restart I now have a connection again...
Just had modem off for a couple of hours, turned it back on and it got a brief DSL sync before dropping again. The modem log seems to show that it was about to start making a connection but then lost DSL carrier again... Anyone have any idea on this? (clock is wrong, but I kept the times just for reference of how long carrier stayed up for)
Apr 19 18:15:20 | DSL Carrier is down
Apr 19 18:15:40 | DSL Carrier is up
Apr 19 18:15:40 | sar read trained mode (5)(ADSL_2plus)
Apr 19 18:15:40 | ---}}} Start of connection delayed for 6 sec
Apr 19 18:15:40 | PPPoA launch delay.
Apr 19 18:15:46 | PPPoA Launch after conn delay timeout ...
Apr 19 18:15:46 | pppd 2.4.1 started by root, uid 0
Apr 19 18:15:46 | Connect: ppp0 {--}
Apr 19 18:15:46 | Couldn't increase MRU to 1500
Apr 19 18:15:50 | DSL Carrier is down
Assuming the modem is okay (as suggested by the test at your friends, although more info on that would be useful; did you actually get as far as entering his details, getting a PPP layer and using the connection? What were the noise stats like in comparison to those on his modem?), and you've swapped the filter, then I guess the network cable connected to the modem to the test socket is the last thing to swap. If you could borrow your friend's modem for 10 minutes, that would be useful in definitively ruling out a modem problem as well. After that, I think you have a fair case for the problem to be escalated; it clearly couldn't be your equipment or wiring if it's all swapped over and you're connecting to the test socket.
I'm a bit puzzled by your description of everything testing fine as well: as I understand it, you haven't had sync (for more than a few seconds at at time) since the beginning of the outage, in which case that should certainly show up in a test. I'd ask for clarification on that.
Can you try your friends router on your line?
Argh...
The connection came back up at about 10:30PM yesterday, after having the modem switched off for about 2 hours.
Looking at the logs it dropped the connection again at 3:22 AM for 1 minute after losing DSL carrier, then reconnected successfully again until 6:36PM.
Now the DSL light is just flashing again as it's lost the DSL carrier again.
I don't know if my friend's modem will work be compatible as I think it is just normal ADSL - I upgraded to the ADSL2+ service a while back and my modem works with both types. So, possibly the signal frequency may have something to do with it (somehow...)??
A mis-matched crystal at one end or the other could be the cause, but that would be rare. Does the router get hot?
Does the router offer "Auto negotiaiton " or is it just a choice between adsl,adsl2,adsl2+ ?
I have it set to auto-negotiation, and when it works the modem log shows:
Oct 22 03:23:04 | sar read trained mode (5)(ADSL_2plus)
I have tried forcibly setting it to the ADSL 2+ mode, and also changing it to a different mode and back again in case of a stale setting somewhere.
As for heat, the router gets fairly hot but it always has done. I would think if heat had some involvement it'd stop working during summer. Unless of course it's too cold for it now!
Can you improve ventilation in any way, eg stand it on its side?
Well, I'm tired of faffing around with that modem.
Simon at IDnet had kindly offered to send me a test router, which I appreciate, but as it's the weekend now I'd imagine it wouldn't get here 'til the middle of next week.
So I've just gone and got a new combined modem/router. Previously I had a separate router, even though the modem itself could do routery things it had no wireless hence I had 2 boxes. So I figured I might as well reduce the complexity of things by just having one box that does it all.
Plugged it in, and it works fine. Unplugged it, attached the old one..... That also works fine!! :mad:
I have just noticed my downstream speed showing at about 2mbps, which is drastically lower than it should be. Swapped some cables around and now have 11mbps.
That old black magic. Comms is like that. :) Glad you're sorted. :thumb:
Ok it turns out I am getting 1mbps downstream...
The BT speedtester shows:
Your DSL Connection Rate :11132 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 828 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 1000 Kbps
If I understand correctly, I could get a speed up to 11mbps, but probably because of the problems I've been experiencing, BT have given my line a 1mbps IP profile?
How long will this last / how do I get it changed?
Should be a few hours but could take up to 5 days.
Another complete loss of both ADSL and FTTC for me.
My FTTC line is ok
My FTTC connection dropped a few times tonight which is unusual but it's ok now.
FTTC has just come back but ADSL is still dead in the water.
I've noticed my FTTC speeds and ping have been pretty dire for the last few days e.g. from yesterday evening...
(http://www.speedtest.net/result/695136749.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
And this for the last 24 hours...
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/eb1a440465705ed47bb12865af97f040-02-11-2010.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/eb1a440465705ed47bb12865af97f040-02-11-2010.html)
I don't really see how all these problems can be put down to exchange works or there would be reports from other users. Anyway, time for bed, I'll take another look at it later today.
Looks like my ADSL line is now back as well.
I have a question.
I recall that there used to be a minimum level of performance set by BT on FTTC which I believe was around 12-13 Mb/s. Unfortunately when my FTTC is running at the kind of speeds indicated by my previous post the BT Speed checker mysteriously refuses to return a result. However last night it did after a massive delay and wanted to perform an additional test. As always, changing the login resulted in the additional test page not being found (it's done that for the last couple of years at least). That said, the preliminary test did show speeds well below the acceptable range.
Is this worth pursuing?
The burden of proof eh Zap.
Exactly that. If I were a cynic I'd say the BT speed test was written to return a good result or the best result of a set of average results or no result at all from a set of bad results.
You may think that but I couldn't possibly comment*
*just in case any BT lawyers are watching
Yes it is, Zap. My guess is that it's BT exchange work though, there's a whole raft of it going on this month.
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Nov 02, 2010, 09:25:04That said, the preliminary test did show speeds well below the acceptable range.
Is this worth pursuing?
IIRC, the BT speedtest says that the results are stored and can be retrieved at the request of your ISP... so yes, it probably is.
Although yesterday's test failed on the final test, hopefully it'll have recorded what prompted it.
:fingers:
Quote from: zappaDPJ on Nov 02, 2010, 11:50:56
Although yesterday's test failed on the final test, hopefully it'll have recorded what prompted it.
It probably has... I've found that if I abort a test after the download but before the upload completes it still won't let me run another test for an hour, so it's remembering something!
What it had for breakfast probably, Bill. ;)
Cornflakes probably... fibre is good for it :P
:grn:
More seriously, it seems to me that it records a successful test if it tells you your profile.
I found it had to complete at least the download test... but come to think of it, that was before the version for VDSL came in so it may have changed.
I got a profile and then it just died on me the other day, Bill. A retry got the 'go away' message.
Old version just did a download test, new one does download and upload irrespective of the bearer it would appear.
Is that bad news, Mitch? ;)
:groan:
:ithank:
I've lost both my connections again this morning, anyone else?
Fine here on Max
Fine here on Max too.
Cheers. I've managed to get back on ADSL by rebooting the router but it won't work for FTTC. I have sync with the exchange but no DNS.
MY FTTC connection is fine
Rgs
Chris
Thanks, it's just me then :'(
BT faults
BT30825 06/11/2010 09:52
01595 01806 01857
01950 01957
BT31297 06/11/2010 09:35
01569
BT31289 06/11/2010 09:32
01347
Thanks Steve, I'm not on the list.
I did find this on Zen...
Clear PW144150 06/11/2010 02:00 06/11/2010 03:00
Needless to say there was no outage during that time ::)
This is from the Lerwick outage
"Service has been restored by completing a
Card Change
This issue may have been due to
a Denial of Service (DOS) Attack
an Equipment Failure
BT regrets any inconvenience this may have caused."
DoS :eek4:
Quote from: Steve on Nov 06, 2010, 20:15:44Service has been restored by completing a Card Change
In other words, having taken a card out, they finally got around to putting a new one in :P
Huh? Can a DOS break a card? Overheating it? What? I'd guess most failures are hardware if it needs swapping out. You cannot really blame software, even if it goes astray or is malicious.
Unless a firmware update goes awry and bricks the card.
To me, it's worrying that the equipment is so vulnerable to a DoS attack. And why Lerwick for heaven's sake? A test run?
Would the Lerwick exchange connect back to a single card in the Edinburgh node? If so, then the attack, if there was one, may have targeted that card in the node, possibly chosen at random.
It's quite likely, isn't it.
As I've said, when I was being upgraded to Max a line card in the exchange failed and took BT a week to replace it.
10 days for me, Mitch. BT doesn't do urgency. :(
I had a new line laid in my garden, within 7 days.
Post code lottery then.
It took 2 or 3 years of a noisy degrading line. for them to decide to do it though.
If they don't get you one way... ;D
Service down. Norfolk, watton . 3rd time in recent times .
I can't see anything listed in the service outages, so you may well be going through the birthing pains of 21CN on the voice side.
My connection just went down - I restarted the modem and it shows an internet connection and the log shows PPP connection was OK... ???
Anyone else having problems?
All fine here.
Hmm... OK, thanks Glenn, looks like it's just me :(
OK, panic over - connection is back up again now. :)
Ive been down all day router been off to try fix it. Not cool any ideas?
How long did you leave the router off for? Do it for 30mins to ensure a stale session has time to clear. What does the router show?
All day. Same old no external ip
Have a word with support, Sam, see what they have to say.
Support couldnt see my router, aka a stale session, so even leaving it off for a day didnt help there, they had to reset it their end
All sorted now
:)
:thumb:
Suddenly, the cures we've relied on for years are ceasing to work, Sam. BT are doing some odd things.
BT Wholesale - Broadband Incident Report
Please read the following incident report as it could have an impact on some of your end users
BT Incident Reference: 32643 Issue : 2
Detected Date: 20/11/2010 Detected Time: 10:08
Start Date: 20/11/2010 Start Time: 10:06
Anticipated Clear Date: 20/11/2010 Anticipated Clear Time: 12:06
Incident Headline: : LIVINGSTON MUX 101 AND EDINBURGH PENTLAND MUX 101: LOSS OF SERVICE
Incident Details: At the moment some of your Broadband End Users may be experiencing a loss of Broadband service.
Progress Details: BT is making progress towards full restoration of Service.
Latest Update:
An Engineer has been tasked to site.
Further updates will be provided as soon as possible.
Dialling Codes Affected:
013144 013145 013146 013147 013153
013162 013166 01506
The Celtic Disconnection continues. :(
From the IDNet RSS feed at 20:35
BT Wholesale - Broadband Incident Report
Please read the following incident report as it could have an impact on some of your end users
BT Incident Reference: 32722 Issue : 2
Detected Date: 21/11/2010 Detected Time: 19:50
Start Date: 21/11/2010 Start Time: 19:19
Anticipated Clear Date: 21/11/2010 Anticipated Clear Time: 22:00
Incident Headline: : READING NODE 05211 MR16 CARD :PARTIAL LOSS OF SERVICE
Incident Details: At the moment some of your Broadband End Users may be experiencing a loss of Broadband service.
Progress Details: BT is making progress towards full restoration of Service.
Latest Update:
An Engineer has been tasked to site.
Further updates will be provided as soon as possible.
Dialling Codes Affected:
01132 01159 01162 01179 01183
01189 01202 01209 01223 01225
01226 01235 01242 01243 01249
01252 01256 01258 01262 01268
01269 01273 01275 01279 01290
01297 01305 01308 01325 01329
01367 01379 01392 01394 01404
014133 01433 01454 01473 01483
01489 01493 01494 01522 01542
01548 01566 01590 01604 01628
01634 01635 01666 01672 01709
01720 01725 01726 01733 01747
01749 01752 01753 01761 01775
01784 01787 01788 01793 01803
01823 01827 01840 01869 01903
01904 01929 01933 01935 01963
01977 01980 01983 0207228 0207499
0207538 0208205 0208337 0208475 0208534
0208552 0208851 0208883 0238024 0238062
0238089 0239226 0239232 0239245 0239246
0239260 0239263 0239269 0239275 0239285
0247622 0247666 0247671 0289336 0289447
0289751 0247671 0289336
Got no internet AGAIN! Using my old P910 to post this. Anyone else lost service?
Yeah my idnet connection dropped out and won't reconnect. I've powered off the router and will try again in the morning. My other line on the same exchange (with a different ISP) is working fine. I'm posting from it now.
This could be due to the planned engineering work detailed here (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=23310.0) and quoted below:
QuotePlanned Engineering Work is required to be carried out on BT's 21st Century Network Planned
Duration details: Planned start: 22/11/2010 23:00 - planned finish: 23/11/2010 06:00
Customer Impact Statement:
BT Wholesale 21CN broadband WBMC shared platform is undergoing a Programme of works. Work is now planned at LONDON STEPNEY GREEN to increase capacity and resilience which will allow for more edge routers to be connected to the network. This planned work will result in an outage of up to 6 hours, to minimize the impact on customers the work will be carried out between Midnight to 6AM
Please note that this will affect all connections, 20CN and 21CN and may result in stale sessions. If you find yourself in sync on Tuesday morning, but are unable to reach the web, please power down your router for 30 minutes, then try again. If you still have a problem, contact support.
It is back now so looks like it was due to that planned work. Is there any way to get e-mail notification of any planned outages in future?
Status RSS feed >> http://www.idnet.net/statusrss.php
The planned work was notified well in advance on the web site and here on the forum,over the next month there is a lot more work to come right across the UK.
Mine came back this morning too. I guess the BT Total Broadband line had no problem reconnecting late last night when it dropped because BT connections don't use username + password to authorize users.
:(
Couldn't we have been switched to an alternate circuit or something? These outages are killing me! I NEED to find a more stable service. Maybe someone here can help? Ideally I would like a hosting service where I have complete control over the http/mail server config (i.e. full LAMP root access).
Hosting a site at home is all good fun and an excellent learning experience, but it makes you realise just how important uptime is, and I can't put up with these regular outages anymore (for my hosting at least - not quite so bothered about the browsing side of things).
Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks.
In a word, no. This is BT's network we are talking about, not IDNet's. An ISP can do nothing to work around BT engineering work.
You could try someone like 1&1 for hosting, but you still wouldn't be able to connect to them yourself if BT takes the network down.
Could always fit a PCI modem card in your PC and use it to dial up (assuming here IDNet have a dialup number or alternatively you could use one of myriad of other ones on the net but its likely to cost you a local rate call)
As for mail hosting you can use 1&1 as I do as its very cheap and they provide an SSL secured webmail interface but will be a bit useless without a connection and the telephone support is dire but have only had to ring them twice in the past six years when the webmail server has fallen over.
IDNet do provide a dial-up backup, Mitch. 0845 602 1131
Quote from: Conrad on Nov 23, 2010, 16:27:48
:(
Couldn't we have been switched to an alternate circuit or something? These outages are killing me! I NEED to find a more stable service. Maybe someone here can help? Ideally I would like a hosting service where I have complete control over the http/mail server config (i.e. full LAMP root access).
Hosting a site at home is all good fun and an excellent learning experience, but it makes you realise just how important uptime is, and I can't put up with these regular outages anymore (for my hosting at least - not quite so bothered about the browsing side of things).
Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks.
ALL communication systems have periods of downtime for maintenance be it , BT ,Tiscali Wholesale, CPW, Virgin ......... the infrastructure needs constant work.
BT give advance warning of their scheduled work and that as has been explained to you previously is notified on the IDNet website, via theStatus RSS feed and here on the forum where there was not only an announcement but also a large news banner showing the information.
If you are ( or want to be) a site/forum admin you need to be checking these details on a daily basis and making plans around them. There are also other backup connection systems available and you need to investigate what suits your needs.
I have run various forums for years now , it is up to me to know what is planned and be able to work around any connection issues.
Web space and servers are available at IDNet , otherwise take a look around places like Webhosting talk for hosts, just remember that hosts also have some downtime, you need to be checking their status on a daily basis and have to have an alternative access plan, do you have UPS for your router/s ? What happens if your area has a prolonged power cut?
Be aware that there is a lot more BT work coming up that "could" affect your connection >> http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=23400.0 << have a read of the schedule to see if your exchange is covered.
Good point, Dorset. If resilience is paramount, you need to have a second, non-BT, circuit. It costs more, but resilience does. (Yes, I do have a UPS on my router. :))
That's why I love the things Google come up with and try to do.
It's not there yet, but I'd love to see a 100% fail safe internet, run like the Google server farm. I think it was Google or Valve Software that had one of their server farms catch fire, another get knocked out in a storm, and it all just fell over (as in transferred, no crashed! ;) ) to the next one seamlessly for customers and users.
They use back up systems between drives, servers and sites. But this does need a massive network, and BT don't have the available connections really.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_platform
Not sure how well them and BT get on. :rofl:
I like the list of original equipment. I think BT may have bought it from them. :)
Google are working on something called Spanner http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/23/google_spanner/ to do just that though by the looks of what happened with IDNet they aren't there yet.
I think Valve are further ahead in that particular area as Steam has been running for years and I only remember a couple of times when I wasn't able to log in when they took the whole thing down for maintenance.
PPP went down last night at 00:10 for 70 minutes, couldn't find anything in the status reports... anyone got any ideas beyond BT not telling anyone in advance?
FTTC, Didcot (01235) exchange.
Whilst I remember... usually the router just reports "Disconnected", then nothing until "Connection established [my IP address] -> [Gateway IP] when it comes back up, but occasionally it connects me to a BT address with a local IP which changes about every ten minutes, again until it comes back up. Can I infer anything from what it does?
That sounds like engineering work where the PPP session is not being re-established, Bill.
So, oversimplifying, if I get a BT address it just means that the network can't find the IDNet RADIUS servers for whatever reason, if I don't then something is probably broke? (Either by accident or design)
I think that about sums it up, Bill. The BT addresses were seen widely when BT decided that IDNet wasn't a customer anymore.
Cheers Rik, it's always nice to know these things even when there's bugger all I can do about it :P
You are but a mere shrimp to the whale which is BT, Bill. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Nov 26, 2010, 11:09:00the whale which is BT
I think "basking shark" might be a better analogy... whales display more activity and intelligent behaviour :)
True. Mea culpa. ;D
I have had no service today, my computer is connected to the router, but there is no internet access (am currently on broadband dongle). I have unplugged the router from the mains a few times, once for at least an hour but with no improvement.
I live in north Bucks on the Winslow exchange.
Does anyone have information on exchange problems? I have looked on the BT service link on this forum but there is nothing indicated near me.
Any help would be appreciated. Many thanks.
:welc: :karma:
I can't help with the tech stuff, sorry, but if you could provide your dialling code, that might help someone identify any exchange issues.
If you have no BB connection I believe you can leave a message on the IDNet answer machine.
:welc: :karma:
Hope you get sorted soon. :fingers:
:welc: :karma:
Thanks for the welcome. :thumb:
I'll get onto IDnet tomorrow if the connection hasn't come back. Exchange is 01296.
I lost PPP for about 2 hours tonight. Area code 01205. Peterboro 21cn node.
There's nothing showing against either of those. Ritzy, was the router in sync?
http://status.aaisp.net.uk/apost.cgi?incident=696
This seems to be the guilty item for me.
I wonder whether that translates to Perth or Peterborough?
The 0:13 start time tallies with my loss of PPP.
It's just that the only report I've seen from IDNet is for Perth. :dunno:
Quote from: klipp on Nov 30, 2010, 01:58:48
I lost PPP for about 2 hours tonight. Area code 01205. Peterboro 21cn node.
As I went to bed last night just before 1am, my connection was down too, all ok this morning though (0208 Stratford exchange in east London)
Lost PPP again at 23:40 but seems to be back (for now).
My connection's gone south again.
Here's what my BT2700HGV has to say about it.
DSL Synchronization - UP
G. DMT ATM Signal - UP
PVC Connection - Could not find an ATM circuit
PPPoA Service - Unable to connect to login service
PPP Authentication --
IP Connection --
DNS Communication --
As usual I'm in the dark as to what that means.
switched on at 2am. All lights on on router but no internet access Code (01326). Just came back up now (2.13 am). Let's pray that BT are not playing silly b's again.
BT are changing line cards and upgrading exchanges to add capacity all over the UK so some disconnects are possible.
This was a list of some of the works planned http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=23400.0
And maintenance does have to happen at some time ;D
Quote from: ou7shined on Dec 02, 2010, 01:45:11
My connection's gone south again.
Here's what my BT2700HGV has to say about it.
DSL Synchronization - UP
G. DMT ATM Signal - UP
PVC Connection - Could not find an ATM circuit
PPPoA Service - Unable to connect to login service
PPP Authentication --
IP Connection --
DNS Communication --
As usual I'm in the dark as to what that means.
And another... :(
(http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/fd6238603d04923a73992f06c342510d.png) (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/fd6238603d04923a73992f06c342510d.html)
That looks like a BT failure or planned engineering works to me, Rich. What exchange are you on?
Quote from: Rik on Dec 03, 2010, 10:37:35
That looks like a BT failure or planned engineering works to me, Rich. What exchange are you on?
Aberdeen Balgownie (http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/NSBLG)
IIRC from DorsetBoy's link above, we have a planned outage on the 8th.
I'm guessing, as there are no specific reports, that the Edinburgh node is struggling again.
I have currently have an outage. Anyone else?
It lasted an hour or so, engineering works I guess.
It was telling you to go to bed, Zap. ;)
Ironically I'd only just got up after spending the best part of the last week there :laugh:
;D
Too much channel hopping Zap?
;D