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Technical News & Discussion => Broadband, Internet & General Computer News & Discussion => Topic started by: stevenrw on Apr 02, 2008, 15:23:56

Title: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: stevenrw on Apr 02, 2008, 15:23:56
Unless I missed something it seems that the "Anti Priracy" legislation planned revolves aroung p2p/torrent downloading only.
It's obvious that HM Gov are being slobbered over by big business. I note that they are not attempting to legislate on the illegal downloads done in a "conventional" fashion, for example HC Porn images, terrorist propaganda, dog fights etc.
'scuse me while I vomit - these guys are just unbelievable
Something that does surprise me is that the Gov are trying to stop it - normally they would use it as an opportunity to raise extra tax revenue.
Seems to me that the easier solution would be if ISP's were to levy an optional flat "license" fee on top of the normal monthly charge that would enable downloads of films/music etc which could be paid to the artists, thus not criminalising the public at large. Effort could be then spent on stopping the more unsavoury downloading habits of us, the great british public.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 02, 2008, 15:27:00
That's way too sensible to be adopted, Steve. :( I agree, though, and find it sickening that the Govt are so concerned to help the BPI while ignoring the 'darker corners' of the net.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: madasahatter on Apr 02, 2008, 15:51:45
It's because they can score a few brownie points with the BPI, and hope gain extra tax revenue from all the millions of extra sales that the BPI have convinced them that piracy is costing them.

Not to mention the fact that this is an easy target - the "darker corners" of the net would be much harder to crack
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Sebby on Apr 02, 2008, 16:08:24
Quote from: stevenrw on Apr 02, 2008, 15:23:56
Seems to me that the easier solution would be if ISP's were to levy an optional flat "license" fee on top of the normal monthly charge that would enable downloads of films/music etc which could be paid to the artists, thus not criminalising the public at large. Effort could be then spent on stopping the more unsavoury downloading habits of us, the great british public.

Personally, I feel that something like that could potentially put a stop to illegal downloading, or at least stop it a lot. Consumers are all about good value these days, and the reality is that most don't feel that £0.79/song (on iTunes, I think) is good value. Because you can get the stuff for free (albeit illegally) people do.

Once again, I can't help but feel that the underlying issue is being missed, but then that's like everything.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 02, 2008, 16:17:20
Apple seem to be taking a long time to harmonise prices across the EU, ie drop prices in the UK, don't they? I wonder why that doesn't get the same attention from the Govt?
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Sebby on Apr 02, 2008, 16:25:39
Because they don't care. :)
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 02, 2008, 16:30:03
Not to mention that they are enjoying the higher VAT revenues...  :eyebrow:
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: stevenrw on Apr 02, 2008, 16:35:33
Another point that is consistently overlooked, particularly in music, and to a lesser extent in films is that legal downloads (albeit at 79p a pop) only really cater for mainstream music genres. If your bag is, for example Jazz from the 20's or some other "minority" type of music (the type of stuff you need to go to specialist shops to buy) just ain't available, so specialist p2p sites are the Only way you can get hold of the stuff you want.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 02, 2008, 16:36:43
Fair point, most specialist genres simply aren't catered for by the commercial outlets, so what revenue do they lose?
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Malc on Apr 02, 2008, 19:43:21
Quote from: Sebby on Apr 02, 2008, 16:08:24
. Consumers are all about good value these days, and the reality is that most don't feel that £0.79/song (on iTunes, I think) is good value. Because you can get the stuff for free (albeit illegally) people do.



Or for 49p in America, which is what pis**s a lot of people off.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: madasahatter on Apr 02, 2008, 23:46:37
Quote from: Malc on Apr 02, 2008, 19:43:21
Or for 49p in America, which is what pis**s a lot of people off.

Good point Malc - a lot of things are so much more expensive here than they are in America, and when we are talking computer downloads, they don't have any of the usual excuses (exchange rates etc). It's all a complete rip off - then they wonder why peeps don't want to pay...... :mad:
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Niall on Apr 03, 2008, 11:41:03
Quote from: stevenrw on Apr 02, 2008, 16:35:33
Another point that is consistently overlooked, particularly in music, and to a lesser extent in films is that legal downloads (albeit at 79p a pop) only really cater for mainstream music genres. If your bag is, for example Jazz from the 20's or some other "minority" type of music (the type of stuff you need to go to specialist shops to buy) just ain't available, so specialist p2p sites are the Only way you can get hold of the stuff you want.

That's actually very true. I've had that problem with some blues music I was looking for a few years ago. Also, before I actually was using a PC at home, back in the early 90's I was looking for years for a certain album by Roger Waters, and for some reason it wasn't in stock. At the time I was forced to wait about 3 years before shops stocked it again because everywhere I asked for it, they didn't have it and said they couldn't get hold of it. No idea why this was the case for a recent album, but this sort of thing does apply.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 17:06:58
The BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7342135.stm) is reporting that MEPs have rejected the moved to kick downloaders off the 'net.

"European politicians have voted down calls to throw suspected file-sharers off the net.

The idea to cut off persistent pirates formed part of a wide-ranging report on creative industries written for the European parliament.

But in a narrow vote MEPs backed an amendment to the report which said net bans conflicted with "civil liberties and human rights".
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Inactive on Apr 11, 2008, 17:12:24
I read that as well Rik, good for the EU I say...I don't download any dodgy stuff at all, however if the music etc. industry stopped charging their ridiculous prices for legit stuff, then people probably wouldn't bother doing it. ;)
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 17:14:15
I find myself wondering why it's taking Apple so long to harmonise prices. They could, if they wanted to, do it at a stroke. Funny that...  >:(
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Inactive on Apr 11, 2008, 17:19:54
Simply pure greed. ;)
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Sebby on Apr 11, 2008, 18:44:20
Quote from: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 17:14:15
I find myself wondering why it's taking Apple so long to harmonise prices. They could, if they wanted to, do it at a stroke. Funny that...  >:(

Because they don't actually want to, Rik. ;)
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 18:48:18
Ah, you spotted that too then. ;)
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Sebby on Apr 11, 2008, 18:48:44
:hehe:
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Malc on Apr 11, 2008, 19:22:22
For once the EU has come up good. Stop this money grabbing gvmnt in there tracks for a change.



Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 19:24:39
Don't bet on it stopping them, Malc. There will probably be an opt out...  :mad:
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Malc on Apr 11, 2008, 19:25:49
Can you really see 6 million peeps not being allowed an internet connection?
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 19:35:37
The Govt would only worry if it meant losing votes or failing to keep an election pledge. Even then, they'd blame the ISPs.  :mad:
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Malc on Apr 11, 2008, 19:41:44
So 6 million at an average of £5 per month (probably more), at 17.5%, thats £5.25 million in lost VAT per month.

Yeah, they won't be bothered.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 19:59:12
Ah, but the theory is that those affected will rush out to buy CDs and DVDs instead... :)
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Malc on Apr 11, 2008, 20:02:11
Never in a million years, surely the gvmnt aren't that naive?

Then again, I've just answered my own question.  ;D
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: madasahatter on Apr 11, 2008, 20:20:41
To me, that's the only reason that the Government are behind this - they've listened to the lies peddled by the BPI et al, and just can't wait to get their hands on all the extra VAT they they've been told is gonna roll in from all the extra legitimate sales, and that makes them even more stupid than I thought they could ever be.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 20:21:52
When you reach my age, Mad, you know how stupid they are.  >:D
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: madasahatter on Apr 12, 2008, 09:11:02
To quote Baldrick - "stupidy stupidy stupidy"?
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: stevenrw on Apr 12, 2008, 16:19:41
Quote from: Rik on Apr 11, 2008, 19:59:12
Ah, but the theory is that those affected will rush out to buy CDs and DVDs instead... :)

Yeah. Right.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 12, 2008, 16:21:25
You don't think it will happen, Steve? :) The BPI (and others) assume people would buy what they download when, in truth, most will not. The 'losses', like software losses, are pure fancy.
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: madasahatter on Apr 12, 2008, 17:25:16
Quote from: Rik on Apr 12, 2008, 16:21:25
The 'losses', like software losses, are pure fancy.

Usually based on fantasy figures that they have based on what they would like their sales to be. >:D
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: Rik on Apr 12, 2008, 17:41:50
They use some great theories, shame they've never tried testing them...
Title: Re: Following on thread Virgin - First of many
Post by: madasahatter on Apr 12, 2008, 17:43:50
To be honest, I think they still look back to the halcyon days of the 70s and 80s - when they could put out any old rubbish (and often did) and it would sell by the bucketload.