From day one with IDNet (and right through my 10 day run in) my connection was syncing at a steady 8.1 but lately (16+ days) it's dropped to 7.5-7.7. Is that what I'm stuck with from now on or is it likely to pop back up to 8?
It's not really effecting my speedtest results, they're about the same as usual.
(http://www.dslzoneuk.net/speedtest/test.php?result=6054.7&test=8128)
I wonder what has happened to make it go down. Anything you might have done to coincide with it?
Anyway, it can go back up if whatever caused it to go down corrects itself.
The important thing is the speed that BT rate your line at - that is the limiting factor - and you can check that by running the BT Speedtest (http://test.speedtester.bt.com:50301/).
Mine syncs at anywhere from 6.1 to 5, depending on the phases of the moon (or some such thing that I know not of). But after a spell of synching at 6, my BT rate goes back up to 5.5, so yours should too.
They say you need to keep the higher sync rate for 3 days for it to affect your BT rated speed.
I've not done owt.
I'll keep tyring and if I sync at 8+ I'll hold on to it for as long as poss.
I can't get any joy out of the BT test the noo, either with the new link (which has never worked for me yet) or by connecting to speedtest@speedtest_domain, but I'll keep plugging away at it.
Cheers.
btw my exchange (NSKNC) is on red (Next upgrade 30/11/2006 ???) but it's been like that for weeks so I'm not counting that.
The BT test came through at last. (linked version ;))
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 7488 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6119 kbps
7488 kbps & 448 kbps is exactly what my router is quoting this time round too. This is the part that fluctuates each connection cycle. So my guess is that if I reboot my router and it comes back with a connection at 7.7 (or god willing 8+) the BT test will reflect this also.
So is the IP profile a static figure?
No the IP profile is the speed that BT currently rate your line at and goes down or up depending on your stability and sync rate. So if you successfully sync a lot faster, it will go up a bit (usually after 3 days), or if you sync at a lower rate it will go down (usually within a few hours).
This is the limiting factor in your download speed, not your sync rate. So as long as it is 6,500, you won't get a speed test much faster than you've got.
But the idea behind Max is that it is constantly adjusting this IP profile up and down from now till the end of time, to give you the best performance possible on your line depending on all the various conditions that affect it.
And remember there are so many other variables (e.g. the clogged up BT network, activity of sites you're visiting etc) that in practice you probably wouldn't notice much difference between your current speed and what you would get if you synced at over 8Mb and it put your profile up a bit.
Thanks Nerval, you're really good at explaining this. :thumbs:
Check out what happened this morning...... :banana2:
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6146 kbps
I'll hold on to this connection and I'll post back the BT test results over the next few days.
If it holds that sync for 3 days , it may shove your IP profile up a bit - say 7000 - but it will always keep a safety margin below your actual sync rate. I think I saw somewhere that 7500 is the best one you get. (Wish my line was good enough for me to bother about that!!)
And remember it may resync down and back up for some reason without you noticing!!
Here's a list of sync speeds, throughput and the BRAS profiles which I 'borrowed' from the forum formerly known as ADSLguide. :)
BRAS profiles
Colum A = Sync Speed
Colum B = Theoretical max kbps removing all overheads while working from BRAS profile size
A.........B
8128 6919 Only sync at 8128 will give a Bras Profile of 7150
8096 6774
8064 6774
8032 6774
8000 6774
7968 6774 Sync between 7968 & 8127 = Bras Profile of 7000
7936 6290
7904 6290
7872 6290
7840 6290
7808 6290
7776 6290
7744 6290
7712 6290
7680 6290
7648 6290
7616 6290
7584 6290
7552 6290
7520 6290
7488 6290
7456 6290
7424 6290
7392 6290 Sync between 7392 & 7967 = Bras Profile of 6500
7360 5806
7328 5806
7296 5806
7264 5806
7232 5806
7200 5806
7168 5806
7136 5806
7104 5806
7072 5806
7040 5806
7008 5806
6976 5806
6944 5806
6912 5806
6880 5806
6848 5806
6816 5806 Sync between 6816 & 7391 = Bras Profile of 6000
6784 5323
6752 5323
6720 5323
6688 5323
6656 5323
6624 5323
6592 5323
6560 5323
6528 5323
6496 5323
6464 5323
6432 5323
6400 5323
6368 5323
6336 5323
6304 5323
6272 5323
6240 5323 Sync between 6240 & 6815 = Bras Profile of 5500
6208 4839
6176 4839
6144 4839
6112 4839
6080 4839
6048 4839
6016 4839
5984 4839
5952 4839
5920 4839
5888 4839
5856 4839
5824 4839
5792 4839
5760 4839
5728 4839
5696 4839 Sync between 5696 & 6239 = Bras Profile of 5000
5664 4355
5632 4355
5600 4355
5568 4355
5536 4355
5504 4355
5472 4355
5440 4355
5408 4355
5376 4355
5344 4355
5312 4355
5280 4355
5248 4355
5216 4355
5184 4355
5152 4355
5120 4355 Sync between 5120 & 5695 = Bras Profile of 4500
5088 3871
5056 3871
5024 3871
4992 3871
4960 3871
4928 3871
4896 3871
4864 3871
4832 3871
4800 3871
4768 3871
4736 3871
4704 3871
4672 3871
4640 3871
4608 3871
4576 3871
4544 3871 Sync between 4544 & 5219 = Bras Profile of 4000
4512 3387
4480 3387
4448 3387
4416 3387
4384 3387
4352 3387
4320 3387
4288 3387
4256 3387
4224 3387
4192 3387
4160 3387
4128 3387
4096 3387
4064 3387
4032 3387
4000 3387 Sync between 4000 & 4543 = Bras Profile of 3500
3968 2903
3936 2903
3904 2903
3872 2903
3840 2903
3808 2903
3776 2903
3744 2903
3712 2903
3680 2903
3648 2903
3616 2903
3584 2903
3552 2903
3520 2903
3488 2903
3456 2903
3424 2903 Sync between 3424 & 3999 = Bras Profile of 3000
3392 2419
3360 2419
3328 2419
3296 2419
3264 2419
3232 2419
3200 2419
3168 2419
3136 2419
3104 2419
3072 2419
3040 2419
3008 2419
2976 2419
2944 2419
2912 2419
2880 2419
2848 2419 Sync between 2848 & 3423 = Bras Profile of 2500
2816 1935
2784 1935
2752 1935
2720 1935
2688 1935
2656 1935
2624 1935
2592 1935
2560 1935
2528 1935
2496 1935
2464 1935
2432 1935
2400 1935
2368 1935
2336 1935
2304 1935
2272 1935 Sync between 2272 & 2847 = Bras Profile of 2000
2240 1452
2208 1452
2176 1452
2144 1452
2112 1452
2080 1452
2048 1452
2016 1452
1984 1452
1952 1452
1920 1452
1888 1452
1856 1452
1824 1452
1792 1452
1760 1452
1728 1452 Sync between 1728 & 2271 = Bras Profile of 1500
1696 968
1664 968
1632 968
1600 968
1568 968
1536 968
1504 968
1472 968
1440 968
1408 968
1376 968
1344 968
1312 968
1280 968
1248 968
1216 968
1184 968
1152 968 Sync between 1152 & 1727 = Bras Profile of 1000
1120 484
1088 484
1056 484
1024 484
992 484
960 484
928 484
896 484
864 484
832 484
800 484
768 484
736 484
704 484
672 484
640 484
608 484
576 484 Sync between 576 & 1151 = Bras Profile of 500
544 279
512 279
480 279
448 279
416 279
384 279
352 279
320 279
Good list Rik (if a little long :laugh:)
So that says the best ou7shined will get is a profile of 7150, even worse than I thought.
In essence then, there's sod all difference between where he is and the best he could get.
Makes me feel better though with my profile of 4500 (schadenfreude :laugh:)
slanty
I was thinking about cutting out all the sync steps and just giving the ranges, but I thought people might like to see the steps (and how a 32k change can make a big difference!).
As I have a profile of 2500, imagine how I feel!! ;)
You poor devil.
What router is that with?
What other routers have you tried, and is your rate better of worse with them?
I ask purely out of self-interest, in that though I find the Netgear a consistent 1.5Mps better than Safecom or Solwise, I was wondering if other makes might improve it still further.
..."forum formerly known as ADSLguide"
nice...
"FFKAA" - I like that ! :laugh:
Quote from: Nerval on Dec 04, 2006, 09:35:46
You poor devil.
What router is that with?
What other routers have you tried, and is your rate better of worse with them?
I ask purely out of self-interest, in that though I find the Netgear a consistent 1.5Mps better than Safecom or Solwise, I was wondering if other makes might improve it still further.
Netgear DG834Gv3, also DG834v2. I was using a Draytek 2600+, but I found that it didn't cope so well with Max, though it was really good on 'vanilla' ADSL. The issue in Milton Keynes is aluminium, we have a very poor telecomms infrastructure, so much so that the Council is working with Pipex (yuk!) to bring wifi to the entire area.
Quote from: Scott on Dec 04, 2006, 09:38:59
..."forum formerly known as ADSLguide"
nice...
"FFKAA" - I like that ! :laugh:
Well,
ThinkBroadband just doesn't have the same feel... :)
I've just noticed, I've become addicted. Obviously, the forum knows me too well. :)
Quote from: rikbean on Dec 04, 2006, 09:44:53
Milton Keynes ....................Pipex
Oh no!!! It gets worse.
goes to look for condolences card :out:
So the Netgear is the best you've found then.
Good to know.
Quote from: Nerval on Dec 04, 2006, 10:13:31
Oh no!!! It gets worse.
goes to look for condolences card :out:
Thank you, we need all the sympathy we can get. :)
QuoteSo the Netgear is the best you've found then.
Good to know.
On my line, yes. The problem with routers is that for every good report you read, you'll find a bad one. Ideally, the chipsets should match the DSLAM for best results, or so I've been told, but I haven't noticed any significant difference between the TI chipset in the 834v2 and the Broadcom one in the 834Gv3.
Also, of course, Netgear sponsor Saints (rugby, not football), so I might be biased. ;)
Apparently, " aluminium " isn't peculiar to Milton Keynes, according to a BT engineer that fixed my line last year, the country is riddled with the stuff....mine included.. >:(
Quote from: Inactive on Dec 04, 2006, 11:03:46
Apparently, " aluminium " isn't peculiar to Milton Keynes, according to a BT engineer that fixed my line last year, the country is riddled with the stuff....mine included.. >:(
My sympathies. No, we're not alone. What's peculiar (at least in respect of the telecomms infrastructure) about Milton Keynes is that it had the bulk of the trunking laid at the time the city was started, and at that time, BT were using aluminium exclusively, so the whole town is affected. Of course, to be fair to BT, aluminium was fine for voice and at the time, no-one had thought of much else to do with a phone line.
Quote from: Inactive on Dec 04, 2006, 11:03:46
aluminium mine >:(
The major employer in MIlton Keynes, then? And bauxite to you!
We also have a tunneling enterprise, it goes under the name Xscape! ;)
All you people going on about your disappointing speeds (in excess of 2mb) is really making me feel p*****d off. I tried MAX for 11 days and even CS couldnt get me running at more than 1-3 kbps - yeah 1/56 of dial up speed, so I`ve had to go back to IPStream 1000. So in the spirit of Xmas--- Bah Humbug Buy your own bloody Turkey etc, etc ;) ;) ;)
Quote from: wolverene on Dec 04, 2006, 12:33:30
All you people going on about your disappointing speeds (in excess of 2mb) is really making me feel p*****d off. I tried MAX for 11 days and even CS couldnt get me running at more than 1-3 kbps - yeah 1/56 of dial up speed, so I`ve had to go back to IPStream 1000. So in the spirit of Xmas--- Bah Humbug Buy your own bloody Turkey etc, etc ;) ;) ;)
I do sympathise, I feel the same about people quoting their 6Mbps+ connections. One thing is for sure, before I move next, I'll be checking the broadband in the area! I would love to see a universal service obligation for ADSL, but it's never going to happen. :(
Even with my " aluminium " line, I still get over 6Mbps, mind you, I live almost next door to the BT Exchange.. :out:
Quote from: Inactive on Dec 04, 2006, 13:00:22
Even with my " aluminium " line, I still get over 6Mbps, mind you, I live almost next door to the BT Exchange.. :out:
Ah shaddup. :)
I reckon it is all of these fancy Avatars eating in to your bandwidth... :banana2: :banana2: :banana2:
I've never fancied an avatar in my life! ;)
I love how there's no such thing as "off topic" round here. I like to think that it is indicative of how much freedom we have with our ISP - very few restrictions. A certain other members forum that I'm used to, would probably have locked this or moved it or it could have even just disappeared by now. ;D I'm telling you it's like a breath of fresh air.
For those of you with slow(ish) connections Boo-Hoo! :'(
No seriously I do feel bad for starting this thread when I've relatively nothing to complain about but it's more about understanding my connection really.
I honestly never expected my line to be that great actually as I'm quoted as being 1.3k away from my exchange (craw fleein') but the river Dee wends its way between us a few times so I presume that the cabling does as well, also we are on the top of 2 opposing hills which will add extra length to the cables too. Maybe with this being the oil capital and all, all our cables are spun from purest super conducting gold. ;D
I respect the fact that the cookie hasn't crumbled as favourably with others as it appears to have done with me, so I'll try and be a bit more considerate in future.
All the same, in the name of science, I'll continue with the BT tests and post the results here.
Quote from: ou7shined on Dec 04, 2006, 16:39:14
I love how there's no such thing as "off topic" round here.
It's good isn't it. Conversations naturally meander in real life and, within limits, they should be able to do so online too.
As to your location, I'm jealous, though tbh I do prefer Speyside to Deeside.
Your speed will only make me envy never angry - I long since worked out that BT doesn't provide a level playing field and nothing I can do will change that, so post away. :)
I blame the moderators :out:
They wouldn't put up with this at Plusnet.
It's nice to have a whole month gone by and not be banned from the forum:laugh:
Quote from: Nerval on Dec 04, 2006, 17:08:32
It's nice to have a whole month gone by and not be banned from the forum
Was that a request??? :P
After days of trying, without success, to get a result from the BT test....
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:
IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 7584 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6068 kbps
This is without disconnecting my router since the last time I posted here.
I'm tempted to disconnect overnight then see in the morning if owt changes. What do you think, is it worth risking affecting this pretty good connection?
BTW is it just me that the BT test keeps halting with? It just seems so random whether you get a test or not.
Various boards have desperate messages about the moody BT speedtester, but every single time I have used it, at various times of day, it has worked fine - slowish but fine.
Maybe there is some regional difference, or maybe the Gods that are BT are shining on me (do Gods shine?). Or maybe there is a reward for serving time with Plusnet/Metronet and now I'm in heaven.
Quote from: ou7shined on Dec 12, 2006, 18:12:48BTW is it just me that the BT test keeps halting with? It just seems so random whether you get a test or not.
As Jupiter says, the test is notoriously fickle in its behaviour. The few times I've actually managed to get into the system, it rejects my username. :(
As to your figures, I'd leave well alone, you might just get a higher sync speed, but it could then lose it overnight, drop to a lower sync and push your data profile down. As someone who is stuck with a best profile of 2500, I'm jealous anyway. :)
Quote from: rikbean on Dec 13, 2006, 08:44:04
As Jupiter says, the test is notoriously fickle in its behaviour. The few times I've actually managed to get into the system, it rejects my username. :(
Have you said something to upset it? :) :police:
I've probably said many things to upset it, every time it just sits there and does nothing! :)
I finally got the test to run for the first time Monday, mid afternoon. Normally i try at weekends or evenings and it has never worked for me before!
What did you promise it? :)
If you people got out of bed early enough, it would work fine.
Try 6am. ;D ;D
I've tried everything from 6am till 4am, it still mainly sulks, and will never accept my IDNet username (possibly because Miriam changed it when the migration floundered. Maybe the original name is still being sought by the checker?)
lol
so it's either 5am, or try the other user name :laugh:
Or even 5am and try the other user name... ;)
belt and braces eh??? :banana2:
... and some baling twine! :)
I was hoping to get the last word in there. :laugh:
I should have known better with you Rik :banana2: :out:
Last word? No chance! :whip:
OK :out:
You know what's coming... :) :coffee:
Look, I've given in What more do you want? :banana2: :out:
Total surrender. ;)
I surrender totally then. :crazy:
OK. :)
Fair enough. :D
What just happened????? ??? :banana2: :crazy:
It's Nerval's form of brinkmanship. :)
Not at all. :P
Well, that proved my point... :angel:
Yup, sure did! Nothing left for you to say now. :laugh:
This could go on and on and on and on and on....... :'( :police:
Oh no it couldn't :laugh:
Oh yes it could... :out:
Look behind you! :police:
I knew you wouldn't be able to resist that one. :)
Ah, the smell of tangerines and wet gaberdine...
Yes, why did it always rain at pantomimes?
Don't answer that - it's a rhetorical question. ;D
Rhetorically speaking, because it could? ;)
Parp!
Best reply yet Rich, have a point. :laugh:
lol :laugh:
(http://planetsmilies.net/not-tagged-smiley-15899.gif)
I bury my head in sand and slowly shrivel up. This can't go on. Can it? ;) :police: :crazy: :out:
That's true :out:
End of! ;D
Right you lot, that's enough :police:
Hi,
Sorry to be a party pooper! :out:
But due to numerous reboots, changed to a modem and switch, reconfigured network, server howling away in the garage, has knobbled my speed! :police:
So how do I resync at my original speed of 6k ish (sorry) as I'm now down to 4k ish (sorry again)?
I've got a SNR headroom of between 10 and 12db so I know there's room for improvement ;)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Hey Gavin, that post is ON TOPIC!!
What are you playing at! lol
Your SNR margin obviously needs to come down again to 6.
Quickest way is to ring support and see what they can do.
May take forever if you wait for Max to see the possibilities and give you 6Mb again.
Quote from: Bat on Dec 15, 2006, 10:00:14
Hi,
Sorry to be a party pooper! :out:
But due to numerous reboots, changed to a modem and switch, reconfigured network, server howling away in the garage, has knobbled my speed! :police:
So how do I resync at my original speed of 6k ish (sorry) as I'm now down to 4k ish (sorry again)?
I've got a SNR headroom of between 10 and 12db so I know there's room for improvement ;)
Cheers,
Gavin :)
I started to respond, but Nerval got there first. What he said. :)
Hi,
I never mentioned on topic..... Guilty conscience ? :laugh:
I'll get my coat :out:
Cheers,
Gavin :)
Here I go again... I chanced an overnight router power down and my numbers are up.
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:
IP profile for your line is - 6500 kbps
DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM) 8128 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 6120 kbps
still holding the same profile though.
Give it three days - if you can sustain that sync speed.
Well Rik, I accidentally tripped the ELCircuit Breaker in the garage and my router went off.
Back on, it's resynched at 6016.
I'm getting tempted again as it's only 224 shy of the magic number for 5500 BRAS rate. And I've not gone back up to 5000 yet after my last try.
And of course the daft thing is that I don't need the extra 500kb, and I wouldn't notice it if I had it.
Still....................... :banana2:
Quote from: Nerval on Dec 23, 2006, 10:43:06
Well Rik, I accidentally tripped the ELCircuit Breaker in the garage and my router went off.
Time for a UPS?
QuoteAnd of course the daft thing is that I don't need the extra 500kb, and I wouldn't notice it if I had it.
It's in the nature of man to seek the moon, Mars even. :)
Tome? ah yes, I see you've edited it now.
There's a pullswitch for the Airbath on the bathroom ceiling, and from time to time, for no apparent reason, it trips out the ELCB for all the sockets in the house when you turn it off. Nothing visibly wrong inside the switch - I assume it must be a smidgen of steam getting into it.
These ELCBs are absurdly over sensitive (a bit like me really) so it's all the funnier when you go to France and you could stick a pitchfork into any of their sockets with impunity. Only good old GB puts in the daft rules and then follows them.
Like boilers - did you know that if you have a new boiler put in it has to be a condensing one? (to save the planet of course) regardless of the fact that they haven't yet made a reliable one. Like when they implemented the daft rule about recycling fridges, but didn't have any facilities to do it, so England's green and pleasant lanes became littered with discarded fridges.
Ah but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?
is what I think you mean, Rik.
Quote from: Nerval on Dec 23, 2006, 10:56:58
Tome? ah yes, I see you've edited it now.
Always wait half a minute for me to spot the typo. :)
QuoteLike boilers - did you know that if you have a new boiler put in it has to be a condensing one? (to save the planet of course) regardless of the fact that they haven't yet made a reliable one.
And the energy saved is more than offest by repair costs, capital costs and a shorter working life. I'm with you brother!
QuoteLike when they implemented the daft rule about recycling fridges, but didn't have any facilities to do it, so England's green and pleasant lanes became littered with discarded fridges.
While most Councils fail to implement re-cycling schemes for batteries and yoghurt pots. The whole environmental thing is just a game, played out for political correctness.
QuoteAh but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for?
is what I think you mean, Rik.
Don't quite grasp your meaning... :out:
Sorry to disagree guys, but us Brits are notoriously poor recyclers compared to our brothers and sisters in the rest of civilised Europe. So all this governmental guff about recycling is more about changing our collective attitude rather than the actual practicality of it. I used to live in Germany where recycling was seen as your civic duty/responsibility rather than something you do if you happen to remember or you've got the time for. But yes, it does seem pointless at times.
You're not really disagreeing, at least with me. :)
I'm all in favour of re-cycling. My issue is that the powers that be, specifically my local Council, pay lip service to the issue, and are only interested at all because they have to meet Govt targets.
There is nowhere for me to re-cycle yoghurt pots and batteries - amongst a host of other material - because the Council deem it uneconomic to create the facilities to do so.
Quote from: rikbean on Dec 23, 2006, 12:57:57
my local Council, pay lip service to the issue, and are only interested at all because they have to meet Govt targets.
There is nowhere for me to re-cycle yoghurt pots and batteries - amongst a host of other material - because the Council deem it uneconomic to create the facilities to do so.
So govt targets are a good thing if they push local councils? I'd say so.
Like 0u7shined said, we need the attitude shift that some other countries have already managed.
Where I am we've only just had kerbside recycling collection introduced - and it excludes glass!
But it is a start in a part of the country where baler twine is the only accepted currency.
Realistic and useful targets are something I'm all in favour of. Targets that achieve statistics for politicians to quote I am not. Re-cycling needs to be encouraged before it's enforced. We need to be able to separate out our waste more than we do. We also need less silly 'rules'. We are currently obliged to wash out all tins before re-cycling. The cost of the water used, both to me and the environment, offsets much of the benefit of re-cycling. IAC, the furnaces will soon dispose of any residues in the cans.
How do you get Visa to set an exchange rate on baler twine aamoi? ;D
That is a daft rule right enough, but the thing is that in the UK it is uneconomical to recycle as the various costs are so high anyway (including the recycling mans wage) and we don't have the necessary number of systems in place to make it cost effective. But are we recycling to save/make money today or is it more to do with investing in our kids future? Just think about tiny Tim Cratchit. ;D
It should, of course, be about the future. Right now, it's about looking good. As a general rule, we do not, in the UK, invest in anything which has long term benefits. This is, I believe, mainly due to the fact that politician's have an attention span of five years or less.
Unless we introduce real long-term planning, which would require cross-party support and an agreement by all the political parties to maintain the measures required, we will never have a decent infrastructure - be it waste disposal, roads, rail or flood control. (To name but a few...)
For Tiny Tim's sake, I hope that we can take the politics out of environmental management.
Quote from: rikbean on Dec 23, 2006, 16:01:48
For Tiny Tim's sake, I hope that we can take the politics out of environmental management.
Dream on.
They'll use it as an excuse for more taxes and that's it.
None of them gives a toss about anything but being in power.
I concur.
But I can dream. :)
A very wise man (Billy Connelly) once said something along the lines of... The desire to be a politician should automatically disqualify you from ever being one. ;)
Quote from: rikbean on Dec 23, 2006, 15:24:37
How do you get Visa to set an exchange rate on baler twine
It requires complex negotiations - the main requirement is that the negotiations take place over a farm gate between individuals whose trousers are held up by said baler twine - as is the farm gate.
Targets are set for the length of time it takes anyone to get round to saying what they actually want or think.
Quote from: rikbean on Dec 23, 2006, 15:24:37
We are currently obliged to wash out all tins before re-cycling... the furnaces will soon dispose of any residues in the cans.
With our fortnightly recycling collection we will stink even more than we do now.
I think the targets nudge the process, which then gathers pace, which then makes more facilities economic. If we (ie nation) just quibble about whether targets are for politicians or collective good, then I can't see much progress. Maybe that is precisely why we lag behind some countries - the energy goes in arguing and cynicism.
An argument for keeping oldies out of power?
Quote from: ou7shined on Dec 23, 2006, 16:23:22
A very wise man (Billy Connelly) once said something along the lines of... The desire to be a politician should automatically disqualify you from ever being one. ;)
A sentiment with which I entirely agree. Parliament should be run on a jury service basis, or we go back to the Viking way...
Quote from: jupiter on Dec 23, 2006, 16:27:46
It requires complex negotiations - the main requirement is that the negotiations take place over a farm gate between individuals whose trousers are held up by said baler twine - as is the farm gate.
What, no computers? How terrible. ;)
QuoteI think the targets nudge the process, which then gathers pace, which then makes more facilities economic. If we (ie nation) just quibble about whether targets are for politicians or collective good, then I can't see much progress. Maybe that is precisely why we lag behind some countries - the energy goes in arguing and cynicism.
An argument for keeping oldies out of power?
Or perhaps it's because we don't trust what the politicians tell us?
Quote from: rikbean on Dec 23, 2006, 16:31:43
... or we go back to the Viking way...
Would that be rape and pillage? Not sure I want to be in this club.
Hey, it was fun. :)
I was thinking more of the 'general assembly'.
Quote from: rikbean on Dec 23, 2006, 16:36:32
I was thinking more of the 'general assembly'.
They had a general assembly for the rape and pillage? Now there's organisation!
It saved all that travelling - get the victims to assemble in one place... ;D