I'm looking for a new router as my old one is dying (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9301.msg214132#msg214132). What is everyone using out there, or what would they reccomend?
I've heard good things about the BT 2700HGV from Lance and Rik.
We tend to be big fans of the 2-Wire 2700, Dan. After that, I would look at Speedtouch and Netgear.
I am using a Zyxel 6600, but I do have a good line, it has worked well for me, their support is excellent as well.
I am fairly sure that most use the 2Wire 2700.
Where did you buy your 2-Wire 2700's from?
They come from eBay.
Quote from: Rik on Aug 05, 2008, 13:22:31
They come from eBay.
:but: :but: :but: Buy new from a well respected seller, don't buy a " refurbished " one.
( Especially from DigiDave. ).. ;)
Thanks Rik.
Having never brought anything from eBay before I might look at some of the others such as the Speedtouch. As my previous two routers have been Netgear's I might go for a different brand (although there was nothing wrong with the first, I just upgraded for wireless functionality.)
Quote from: Inactive on Aug 05, 2008, 13:23:59
:but: :but: :but: Buy new from a well respected seller, don't buy a " refurbished " one.
( Especially from DigiDave. ).. ;)
Thanks Inactive, I will keep that in mind if I buy from eBay. Especially about DigiDave (I've heard bad things).
Either a 2Wire 2700HGV (if you don't mind no official support), Netgear DG834Gv4, or SpeedTouch 585v6 get my vote. :)
What's the support like for SpeedTouch? (Not that I plan on needing to use it. :fingers: )
I used it once when I had a SpeedTouch and found it quite good. Netgear's support is shocking, so you might want to take that into consideration. ;)
Quote from: Sebby on Aug 05, 2008, 13:35:32
Netgear's support is shocking, so you might want to take that into consideration. ;)
And I think I am correct in saying, Netgears don't have an on / off switch, not the end of the world, but important to me.
Quote from: Sebby on Aug 05, 2008, 13:35:32
Netgear's support is shocking, so you might want to take that into consideration. ;)
Yes I've experienced Netgear support before. :mad:
Quote from: Inactive on Aug 05, 2008, 13:37:20
And I think I am correct in saying, Netgears don't have an on / off switch, not the end of the world, but important to me.
No, none that I've seen do. I would like one because I've had to crawl behind my computer to unplug my current router everytime I wanted to reboot it.
Quote from: Inactive on Aug 05, 2008, 13:37:20
And I think I am correct in saying, Netgears don't have an on / off switch, not the end of the world, but important to me.
You are correct (though the new v5, when available, has it). :)
That's strange because all of mine have one, Zyxel, BT Voyager and a Philips, I know that the 2700 doesn't have one.
Quote from: Sebby on Aug 05, 2008, 13:42:34
You are correct (though the new v5, when available, has it). :)
About bloody time, they ain't the cheapest routers either... ;)
I'm using a Netgear DG834GT and it's been brilliant since day one. Easy to configure aswell. The newer versions I would imagine are as easy to use.
Never had to phone Netgear support so can't comment on the customer service levels.
Quote from: Inactive on Aug 05, 2008, 13:44:11
About bloody time, they ain't the cheapest routers either... ;)
£46 is not to bad with a two year warranty :)
Agreed Gary, not too bad, my Zyxel was £29.99 delivered and that included a USB Dongle.
Very happy with it, I posted a Question to Zyxel support and got a sensible reply within a couple of hours.
The thing which is good about Netgears is the user interface, most things you ever want to know are easily accessed, whereas the Speedtouch requires the use of the CLI more.
I guess it is all " swings and roundabouts " at the end of the day Rik, it is rare to find all the good idea's in one box, not just with routers.
True enough. Nothing seems to bring everything together.
I'm using a netgear DG834PN with the pretty blue light.
Blue light doesn't really do anything apart from looking pretty.?
Linksys replaced my faulty router but as it was so late in arriving I couldn't wait and bought the Netgear.
Very easy to set up and so far not given any problems.
Just sold my linksys one on Ebay for £26.
The DG834PN is the router I had die on me. :( It was good while it worked ok though, probably just a random problem with mine.
I've had a couple of faultless Netgears and a couple of 2700s. OTOH, I've heard horror stories about every make there is. Somedays, it's our turn to get the Friday model. ;)
Indeed. :)
The main difference between routers is the chipset; personally, I'd avoid anything AR7-based. Tbh, I don't think manufacturers are really using it anymore, though.
At the moment I'm tempted by a Speedtouch or a 2-Wire 2700. I'm not getting the router for a week as I'm away next week.
Thanks for all the advice from everyone
:thnks:
Have a good trip, Dan. :)
whats the thing with these 2wire routers you all talk about? what do they need to get them to work on any ISP. is it easy to do. wheres the best place to get them new or used
You can only get them on eBay, Baz, the current models need no special setup beyond any other router. What they do seem to offer is massively improved stability and improved sync speed of middle-to-low end lines. If you sync at 8128, otoh, there's no advantage.
Quote from: Baz on Aug 08, 2008, 15:08:35
whats the thing with these 2wire routers you all talk about? what do they need to get them to work on any ISP. is it easy to do. wheres the best place to get them new or used
If you get a dual SSID (the newer ones) you can sort it up much like any other router. :thumb:
got a Netgear DG834Gv4, very happy with it :thumb:
Quote from: Rik on Aug 08, 2008, 09:47:26
Have a good trip, Dan. :)
Hi Rik. Thanks I did have a good trip. I got some shots I'm quite pleased as well which I'll eventually get onto my Flickr.
We'll look forward to them. :thumb:
At the moment I'm quite tempted by the Thomson TG-585v7 router. I would have gone for the 2-wire router, but I'm not keen on using eBay.
Anyway I'm thinking of getting it from here (http://www.thomsondslshop.com/585_datasheet.asp?menuCurrPos=2).
Same price at DSL Source:
http://www.dslsource.co.uk/details.aspx?idProduct=759&category=
Thanks Rik, didn't see it on there. I'll probably get it from there as I've used them before. :thumb:
I trust them, Dan, service has always been good.
Just ordered the router from them now. Should be here by the end of the week at the latest.
Keep us posted. :)
I'm looking forward to getting the new router as my connection is getting considerably worse. Hopefully the router gets here before my old one completely dies. :)
(I've had an email today saying it has been dispatched.)
Are you using vista? If so would be interested in the 585v7 vista compliance especially the UPNP functionality, you can check here via www.microsoft.com/windows/using/tools/igd/default.mspx ( site not available this evening). Thanks. :)
Although my machine is a mac, family members will be connecting on vista machines to this router. I'll have a look at that website when we can talk to Microsoft again. :)
A bit off topic, but could packet loss cause the "looking up..." (http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=9301.0) message delays and timeouts that have meant I am changing router.
I'm still sure that changing router will sort things out; I'm askling this question out of curiosity.
The router arrived today, I will take a look at the Vista compatibility thing when I get it up and running Steve.
Thanks. The 585v6 fails the Microsoft internet connectivity evaluation tests for UPNP on my network,but seems of little consequence as I have no issues with several UPNP devices.The only issue with UPNP is with a WHS server but this is a known hiccup and it is easy to manually configure the port forwarding required for the WHS on the 585v6. I thought it may be a network issue but after trying a Linksys WAG54GS I found this passed all the evaluation tests but then struggled without much success getting the UPNP to work with the WHS.
I do find the odd hiccup occurring with 585v6's DHCP server and the occasional reset for no apparent reason I am sure we would be keen to hear how you get on with it once its up and running.
I've got my new router up and running.
I can't however seem to find the configuration page so I can change some of the wireless settings, does anyone know where it can be found on a Thomson 585v7 router?
Thanks,
Daniel
A quick Google didn't come up with a manual. What happens when you log in to the router, Dan?
Hi Rik. I've found out now by checking the browsing history from the initial setup of the router. You log into the router's settings by going to divice.lan in a web browser.
Microsoft Messenger on my mac now works. (I was previously unable to sign in using it.) So I guess it was an issue with my old router causing it after all. ;D
Quote from: net91 on Aug 25, 2008, 10:47:21
Hi Rik. I've found out now by checking the browsing history from the initial setup of the router. You log into the router's settings by going to divice.lan in a web browser.
That's a new one on me, thanks. :thumb:
Quote from: net91 on Aug 25, 2008, 10:51:20
Microsoft Messenger on my mac now works. (I was previously unable to sign in using it.) So I guess it was an issue with my old router causing it after all. ;D
Pesky machines! :)
From Zen forum setup pdf here http://www.thomsontelecompartner.com/dsl-modems-gateways/products/product-detail.php?id=161 try release 7.4
Firmware here http://www.thomson.net/GlobalEnglish/broadband-uk/Pages/home-uk.aspx
Thomson are making it very difficult for anyone except a partner to get info or firmware
Quote from: net91 on Aug 25, 2008, 10:51:20
Microsoft Messenger on my mac now works. (I was previously unable to sign in using it.) So I guess it was an issue with my old router causing it after all. ;D
I haven't heard of routers causing problems with MSN Messenger for years, and then it was only concerning file transfer anyway. Still, I'm glad it's sorted. :)
Quote from: stevethegas on Aug 19, 2008, 21:28:09
Are you using vista? If so would be interested in the 585v7 vista compliance especially the UPNP functionality, you can check here via www.microsoft.com/windows/using/tools/igd/default.mspx ( site not available this evening). Thanks. :)
I have tried running this but keep getting stuck at an error message.
Can you remember what it says?
I was just a error code. If anyone is particularly interested in the results of the test I will try and make it work.
I'm guessing Steve is. :)
It worked when I used a computer connected via ethernet rather than a wireless laptop.
I have coped the results below. (I can't copy the detailed results because it is too long for the post.)
Basic Internet Connectivity Test
This test is intended to ensure that your computer has basic Internet connectivity, which is needed for the rest of the tests.
A result of "Supported" indicates that your computer has basic Internet connectivity. Supported.
Network Address Translator Type
One primary function of most home Internet routers is Network Address Translation (NAT). Routers providing NAT support assign private IP addresses on the local network. NAT maps these private addresses on the inside network to a public IP address on the outside network so that computers behind the Internet router can communicate with the rest of the Internet. Since Network Address Translators can work in different ways, this test uses Microsoft servers to identify your router's NAT type. Some protocols work better through routers that act as cone-type NATs than routers that act as symmetric-type NATs.
A result of "Not supported" in this test does not impact your basic Internet connectivity. One possible reason for this result may be that your computer is connecting through an Internet router that acts as a symmetric NAT (view the detailed report to determine if this is the case). Microsoft has determined that symmetric NATs can block the traffic of programs that use IPv6 tunneling over IPv4 (see Teredo Overview for details of how this works). Failure to connect using IPv6 may cause these programs to not run or to have a degraded experience. It is also possible that the servers used to determine the NAT type are temporarily unreachable, in which case running the test again later will give a more accurate result. Not supported.
Traffic Congestion Test
Internet routers sometimes lose information that is being transferred across the Internet when they experience congestion (full router queues). This loss of information is known as packet loss. Internet protocols like the Transport Control Protocol (TCP) can use packet loss as a congestion indicator. Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) is a mechanism that provides routers with an alternate method of communicating network congestion. This notification effectively reduces TCP retransmissions and increases throughput. This test attempts to download a short Web document, first with ECN enabled and then again with ECN disabled. If both downloads succeed, the test passes, which indicates that your Internet router successfully allows packets through with ECN options set.
A result of "Supported" indicates that your router can work with this new Vista Feature to improve download speeds and increase endpoint connection reliability. Note You would need to explicitly enable ECN on Vista to take advantage of this feature. Supported.
TCP High Performance Test
Window scaling is a Transport Control Protocol (TCP) option introduced for addressing performance problems. Some Internet routers cause TCP data transfers that use window scaling to fail, particularly when there's a mismatch between the scales chosen by two computers transferring the data. This test downloads a series of Web documents of increasing length until either an incomplete download is encountered or all downloads succeed. Success indicates that your router allows Windows Vista to negotiate the best data transfer rate and help improve download speeds.
A result of "Supported" means that Windows Vista automatically uses window scaling to negotiate the best/largest data transfer rate and help improve download speeds. Supported.
UPnP Support Test
Many applications need to open ports (allow incoming traffic) through an Internet router, particularly when both communicating endpoints are behind different NATs. Modern routers allow hosts to create such open ports using Universal Plug and Play (UPnP). This test ensures that the router has UPnP enabled, can support a reasonable number of open ports, and can maintain these settings.
The test was not run, possibly because the tool was unable to detect a usable Internet connection. Please verify that your Internet connection is working and try running the tool again. If this does not resolve the problem, read the detailed report for more information. Not Run
Multiple Simultaneous Connection States Test
This test creates 80 concurrent TCP connections to external Web servers and keeps them alive over the period of two minutes by attempting continuous data download using HTTP. Passing this test indicates that your router robustly supports multiple computers or programs accessing the Internet simultaneously.
A result of "Supported" means that your Internet router can handle a large number of simultaneous connections. This will enable you to connect to the Internet reliably using multiple applications or multiple computers. Also, your experience with applications that use multiple network streams (like some file download/sharing programs) will be enhanced. Supported.
Congratulations! You have basic Internet connectivity and browsing, and your Internet router should work just as well with Windows Vista as with your current/previous operating system. However, some of the new Windows Vista features are not currently supported by your router.
The More Information link above can give details about the features of your router tested by this tool, and the Windows Vista features and scenarios which can be enabled. If you are interested in getting the most out of Windows Vista networking, your router's manufacturer or your Internet Service Provider may have an update for your router that will enable these features. There is also a link below that can help you to find Internet routers that are tested and certified by Microsoft to give the best experience with Windows Vista.
Thanks, Dan. :thumb:
I've attached a copy of the detailed results in a word document to this post as the layout goes a bit odd when it's copied into a post.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Thanks Dan for your efforts shame about the UPNP test though. It appears UPNP is not enabled either on your laptop or router or both.I would not wish you to break your system either by further messing.Certainly in vista if network discovery is enabled UPNP should be avaialble and I presume if like version 6 there is a tick box in the router for UPNP. UPNP can be b****r to get working but it is useful for msn messenger, xbox and PS3 etc.Otherwise you have to mess around with fixed/static ip addressess and multiple port forwards, being inherently lazy it too much of a faff for me.
NP Steve
The option was indeed disabled on the Vista machine, so I assume it would pass if I ran the test again.
Quote from: net91 on Aug 27, 2008, 12:09:27
NP Steve
The option was indeed disabled on the Vista machine, so I assume it would pass if I ran the test again.
Well if it's like version 6 it will fail if my experience is anything to go by, but what the relevance of this is I am not sure as UPNP functions well on my network apart form the Windows Home server, which needed port forwarding set up.
More importantly is it stable? Any resets? Wireless strength o.k?
It all seems ok so far. :)
Quote from: stevethegas on Aug 21, 2008, 21:25:12
I do find the odd hiccup occurring with 585v6's DHCP server and the occasional reset for no apparent reason I am sure we would be keen to hear how you get on with it once its up and running.
I have just had one of these resets. Do they happen on yours frequently enough to cause a problem or be particularly annoying?
The 585v6 which I used on my line for about six months behaved very well,it did however reset itself on occasions about once every 5 to 10 days but never affecting sync rate so no issues with BT profiles.The DHCP server seemed to confuse itself with odd double entries for the same device.I think what worries me is thomson are making it so difficult for the user who didn't get it as part of his ISP package to upgrade. It is possible to upgrade the firmware but you have to dig around to find it.
It did seem to get a bit hot at times and wonder whether this may be the cause of the odd reset.
Thanks for your reply Steve.
The wireless seems to have died since the reset. ??? I'm fiddling about, trying to figure out whats going on, now.
I wonder if the wireless was the cause for the reset any competing wireless routers around on the same channel? If all else fails do a factory reset and start from scratch. If your using vista I would recommend deleting the previous connection> Network sharing center>manage wireless clients. I find it much easier than trying to get an existing entry to work. When it finds your SSID name then you dont have to specify the encryption type just enter the password.
I have tried the steps you have suggested with no luck, although the router says the wireless is working no computers seem to be picking it up. Also I have had a few more random restarts, plus what seemed to be the router freezing. I have had to reconnect my old router to gain a more stable connection again.
TBH I am not very happy with this router given it is only a week old and seems to be acting very odd. I think I may return it, if possible, and look at a different router.
I'm surprised, Dan, it's usually a very reliable router. I'd suggest a hard factory reset (hold the button in on the back for about 10 seconds I believe), then set it up again. If it's still no better, it sounds like it's faulty to me.
Hi Sebby. I used the hard factory reset method to start off with as I could not access the configuration page.
Thinking out loud if you have some "radar" software i.e toshiba has "config free" see if you can spot the wireless SSID and see which channel its broadcasting on.Your previous connections maybe looking elsewhere..
I am now using a Netgear DG834N which for some users the wireless part has been less than stable.But so far so good.I got an adaptor thrown in so it wasn't quite as expensive as it could have been.
I do have that config free software as I have a Toshiba laptop here, but it couldn't see the wireless network. I don't think it has ever seen any wireless networks, and it wasn't picking up any of the other ones that normally show up from other people who live around here.
I have had the router connected via ethernet to a laptop this morning and seem to be getting nowhere. I did another hard factory reset. Everytime I got about 3/4 of the way through set up it would lock up, and I would have to pull the power cord out. When I start it up again I am back at the beginning of the setup, it seems to be stuck in this loop.
It certainly sounds to be a sick router, Dan. I think I'd RMA it at this point. (Do you have a friend handy whose line you could try it on as a last check?)
Yes, I'll give that a try, although I don't think I'll get it setup on their line if it keeps locking up.
TBH given that it is only a week old and I'm having these problem I'm not to keen on keeping it.
I was just thinking that if it doesn't set up on their line, it will be pretty conclusive proof of a fault, Dan.
I've just spoken to DSL Source and they have said that they will issue refund if I return it as it does appear to be faulty.
If you do need another router, I noticed that Dabs ( wash my mouth out ) have the Zyxel 660 same as mine, but badged as a Dabs unit for £19.99 +p&p.
http://www.dabs.com/ProductView.aspx?Quicklinx=55X6
Thanks, sounds like it'll be worth a look. :thumb:
Luckily I know someone down my road, is home today, and will let me test the router out on their line. So I will do this as Rik suggested to confirm that the router is dodgy.
Sounds knackered to me, never much grief with the previous version. Here's a link to the setup.pdf if you've not got one http://www.thomsontelecompartner.com/dsl-modems-gateways/products/product-detail.php?id=161. Last question, does the power LED go red whilst holding in the reset button
Thanks Steve.
When I did a factory reset all the LEDs went off for a moment then the power, ethernet, wireless and dsl (although not the broadband) LED came one one after the other. Also the initial set up wizard ran when I opened a web browser.
According to the guide you should get a red power LED after about seven seconds of reset pin pressure
I'll try it again to see if that happens.
I think it sounds like the factory reset worked, Dan.
It looks like it did something........where's that other router?
I did another hard reset today and the power LED does turn red before it resets. When I tested the router on a different line it had the same problems as on mine, so the router has now been posted back for a refund.
So once again I am looking for a new router. I'm going somewhere this evening where there's a Comet and PC Word so I'm going to have a look there.
You'll probably pay for the privilege, unfortunately, Dan. :(
I've noticed that they seem a little dear compared to some on line stores. However I'm interested in getting a replacement quite quickly as my old router isn't working properly.
It might be worth checking whether there's an online deal that you can order and then pick up at the store.
That's what I'm doing now. ;) :)
;D
Like minds, eh. ;)
Quote from: Rik on Aug 29, 2008, 17:24:06
;D
Like minds, eh. ;)
Indeed. :)
I've heard some good things about Zyxel and Zoom routers, any experience with these brands?
I haven't. In has a Zyxel though and swears by it.
Reviewers over on Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/ZyXEL-P660HW-54Mbps-Adapter-Bundle/dp/B000I1OA6G) would certainly seem to agree.
This (http://www.connectplayentertain.co.uk/product_ajax.php?id=1) router is available to collect at store from PC World and even mentions Mac support. Tempting.
Go for it, Dan, you know you want to. :)
I think its a lottery.. The Zyxel P660HW uses the AR7 chipset I think someone will correct me if I am wrong. See http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/3257-dsl-modem-chipset-issue-comes-to-the-fore.html but as Rik says In is very happy with it. I bought a very expensive DG834N 2 days ago with a USB n adaptor and certainly wireless performance is better on standard g devices than the previous 585v6.The n adaptor connects at 130-270Mbps. This router apparently also can be a nightmare in some people hands others give it rave reviews
Sound like the debate between plasma and LCD TVs, Steve. ;)
Another possibility from PC World is this (http://www.dlink.co.uk/?go=gNTyP9CgrdFOIC4AStFCF834mptYKO9ZTdvhLPG3yV3oWIh6jqltbNlwaaFp6DQoHDrryCNE+4oNDN/n) D-Link router. It seems to have some good reviews. OS compatibly is not mentioned, although am I right in thinking routers are independent from OS?
Routers are independent from the OS, Dan, it's just an ethernet connection which is OS neutral, or should be. OTOH, I've never got on well with D-Link, but I can guarantee others have.
I'm off to have a look at the shops now, so I'll see what I come back with. :)
Pick me up some chips on your way back, Dan. ;D
Will do, I'll email them to you when I get home. :)
Thanks. Salt and vinegar if you would. :thumb:
I think what ever you get,get one which gives you stats easy enough not just sync but noise margin and errors. The OS compatibility I think largely refers to passing the Microsoft connectivity test which may or may not be accurate in my experience.
I got the D-Link DSL-2640B (http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=567) router from PC World. I have just got it up an running today, and everything is working fine. ;D
Although the router does come with a setup CD I just logged into the browser based settings and set up the router from there. There are wizards for the first time set up of internet access and wireless on the web based interface. The only thing I needed to change manually was the WPA setting, so it used WPA2 rather than WPA or both (all my devices are WPA2 compatible).
That's good, Dan. How are things looking?
The connection seems good with this router, and the router itself seems to be running fine. :thumb:
Hope you have more luck with this one than the last one. :)
Keep us posted, Dan. :fingers:
Quote from: Rik on Aug 31, 2008, 18:44:05
Keep us posted, Dan. :fingers:
Quote from: stevethegas on Aug 31, 2008, 18:43:15
Hope you have more luck with this one than the last one. :)
:thnks:
One benefit of D-Link is support, firmeware updates etc. seem more available than with Thomson.
That's always helpful. Netgear were pretty good like that - except for their testing. ;)
I've always been a massive fan of the Linsys WRT54GL with Tomato firmware installed, it does require a modem but I use a Draytek Vigor 100 to do the whole PPPoA > PPPoE thing which passes the WAN ip directly through to the router.
Never had any problems with it :)