Loss of sync

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 17:28:27

Happened last Friday and then again today, just now in fact

Fri, 2009-06-05 17:18:41 - Loss of synchronization :1
Fri, 2009-06-05 17:21:11 - Loss of synchronization :2
Fri, 2009-06-05 19:15:43 - Loss of synchronization :3
Fri, 2009-06-05 19:20:43 - Loss of synchronization :4
Mon, 2009-06-08 13:33:32 - Loss of synchronization :5
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:12:36 - Loss of synchronization :6
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:13:06 - Loss of synchronization :7
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:22:06 - Loss of synchronization :8
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:22:36 - Loss of synchronization :9
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:23:06 - Loss of synchronization :10
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:23:07 - LCP down.
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:23:16 - Initialize LCP.
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:23:16 - LCP is allowed to come up.
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:23:36 - Loss of synchronization :11
Mon, 2009-06-08 16:23:36 - CHAP authentication success

Router DG834v2.

Anyone else having problems or know what's happening please?

Jane

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 17:43:19

No problems here, Jane. Loss of sync is usually local to you or your exchange. Are you moving to WBC?

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 17:52:01

No chance, not until Q4_2011 if I remember correctly.

Probably them thar Cornish piskeys down at the Par exchange again.

Not too worried at the moment as I am just browsing. I'll see if it continues or if there is any pattern to it. Thanks Rik.

jane

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 18:14:01

Can your run Routerstats, that will log what's happening to your noise margin at the time of the disconnections.

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 18:43:01

On the graph for today, showing steady at 10dB, then first loss dropped to 5dB, second to -2dB (?) and the third to 3dB.

On Friday the mean was 7dB with successive drops to 4, 2 and 1 dB.

The weekend was fine. Must be old Doris plugging in that dodgy kettle again.

jane

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 18:47:05

Those noise variations do suggest local noise problems, Jane. Do you have an NTE5 master socket, the type with the removable face plate?

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 19:04:14

Unfortunately no, it's the old type. No extensions though and I have an xf-1e filter.

The noise can vary quite a lot during the day. Sometimes 13dB, sometimes 6. It has now dropped to 7.

It doesn't usually bother me as my speed stays pretty constant and I mostly use the web for genealogy research, not gaming or watching video etc. It was just these recent sync drops that caught my attention and I thought I would ask out of curiosity really.

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 19:06:44

What else is connected to the line, Jane?

Sebby · Jun 08, 2009, 19:13:01

Which firmware do you have on your Netgear, Jane?

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 19:19:08

DGteam (V3.01.31 - DGTeam Rev. 0849). Noise fluctuation was the same before I upgraded to it a few weeks ago though. In fact I haven't noticed any difference using it, I just like the added options and I got it working with RouterStas.

Sebby · Jun 08, 2009, 19:34:39

I was wondering whether it was a version before the AR7 chipset issues were supposedly fixed, but I think that's fairly recent.

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 19:51:48

Looks like there's an 850 version now (need to check what models it applies to) so 849 would be fairly recent. I don't think it's a firmware issue. More likely as Rik says it's the exchange and/or my line. I am amazed I can get 6-7 meg speeds considering I am out in the sticks. Pings are always quite high though but that's probably because of the distances involved.

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 19:56:12

You mean down to Cornwall?

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 20:01:39

Yes, though I'm not as far down as Lands End! (might as well be sometimes). Isn't that what counts when you do speed tests etc? Or am I talking out of the back of my head as usual.
Just checked for the DG834v2 and 0849 is the latest version for that model.

jane

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 20:04:40

Distance does count, Jane, try pinging an Australian site and you'll see what I mean. I'd still expect you to have pings to www.idnet.net at <40ms, though, unless you have heavy interleaving on (or a congested exchange). To put that in context, on a normal Max line, I ping 13ms to IDNet when interleaving is off, 23ms when it's on. If I use a business package, which has priority at the exchange, on an interleaved line, the figure drops to 19ms from 23ms.

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 20:11:27

Actually I just tested (www.idnet.net) and it's 39ms which is pretty good for me and falls within your prediction. It's usually about 51ms unless something has happened since I last checked a couple of weeks ago.
No problem there then?

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 20:13:10

I don't think so, Jane. Put another way, it's taking 1/20th of a second for your ping to reach IDNet and have a response sent back to you.

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 20:22:30

All's well apart from the mysterious sync losses then. Let's see if it happens tomorrow or if there's a pattern forming.

Thanks a lot guys

Rik · Jun 08, 2009, 20:26:26

If it keeps happening, it's almost certainly noise bursts, so we need to do some testing, though you will be inhibited by the lack of an NTE5. Do you have a battery-powered MW radio?

jane · Jun 08, 2009, 21:01:17

Yes, if I can find the batteries! It has to be MW I take it?

Rik · Jun 09, 2009, 09:22:50

It does, Jane. You need the batteries to avoid any noise from the mains and also to enable you to move it freely. ADSL works in the MW band, so detune the radio till you just have white noise, then follow the phone cable from where it enters the house to your router. If you hear the noise get louder or very 'buzzy' you've located a noise source.

Ninny · Jun 09, 2009, 15:53:29

Rik, can I just ask whether you need to follow the cable from the point where it enters the house to your mains socket, or whether it's just from the mains socket to your router? I seem to be getting aome buzzing at the mains socket itself and also louder buzzing at a spot on the wall where the phone line comes down from the loft to the mains socket.

Rik · Jun 09, 2009, 15:57:28

From the point of entry, or as close as you can to that, Ninny. Does the buzzing stop if the router is powered down?

Ninny · Jun 12, 2009, 10:48:35

The buzzing remains even when the router is turned off. Also holding the radio close to the phone itself makes it produce a very loud buzzing, not sure why it's doing that, but will have to try and find another phone I suppose.

My IP profile has been down to minimum again for the last 3 days because I got up Wednesday and for some reason my noise margin had jumped to 31 dB. It's usually around 12 - 15 dB so there's something producing massive noise on the line intermittently - the sync drops many times a day - just a problem of locating what's doing it which is driving me mad. It's probably something between me and the exchange though and completely out of my control.

Rik · Jun 12, 2009, 10:52:30

If the buzzing remains, it's possible you have mains cabling adjacent to the phone wiring, ideally they should be well separated and if they cross, should do so at right-angles. If the phone is DECT, the base stations on some models can produce a lot of RF noise. Try using a wired handset for a while and see if that improves things.