Netgear v5 changes

[tpk]

Has anyone any ideas what's going on with my connection?  I've posted before about a 47 attentuation and 8/9 SNR but only 1300 Kbps sync down.  It looked like I've simply got a poor quality line to my house and nothing much I can do.  However, the first Netgear v4 I got from idnet has been replaced after support saw that I was regularly losing my connection but not resyncing.

So today I got a Netgear v5 in the post.  I've put it in and the sync speed is the same, but the other stats are surprising!

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1373 kbps 1115 kbps
Line Attenuation 30.0 db 26.0 db
Noise Margin 6.60 db 7.0 db

So now my speed is even poorer based on the new attenuation, if I understand correctly?

Strangely, even though I test without various cables and filters etc.  Always in the test socket.  I've now found plugging my phone into the filter causes the connection to drop.  It was just a cheap argos job to do the quiet line test with.

Is it possible my connection speed will improve now that the attenuation is being reported nearly twice as low as it always used to be?

[Rik]

It should do, but it should show up immediately as an improved sync. I'd be tempted to try a 2-Wire 2700 on your line to see if that helps.

[James_D]

Attenuation is just the distance of your line from the exchange, noise margin is the available space with which to improove your sync rate (rough guide here)

with an attenuation of 30DB you can get about a 6000kbps sync if you have enough noise.

If you have an attenuation of 47DB you can expec 3000-4500kbps all depending on line quality.
It is very strange that your attenuation has changed so drastically, this could be a faulty router reporting it wrongly and its now been corrected or it could imply a fault on the line.

Download Router stats this will let you see your noise margin over a period of time, if its going up and down like a rabbit in summer then something is very wrong.

If your using a test socket I can assume you have found your master socket and I'm guessing its an NTE5 type? whats your connection like with nothing but the modem and filter plugged in?

**EDIT** dammit rik your fast!

[Rik]

Sue says exactly the same. 

[tpk]

Thanks for the quick replies :-)

Yes its NTE, a BT engineer has been and replaced it recently too.

I'm using routerstats already and the SNR is fairly stable, obviously a bit better through the night.

I used to be with a different ISP and the thomson modem I had then also reported about 45/47 attenuation.  This going down to 27-30 seems odd.

[James_D]

I just noticed your upload, by that I can assume you've moved to ADSL2+?

If yes then be prepared to wait a bit, it looks as if BT has completley misjudged the demand for ADSL2+ I have a hige 16-17DB noise margin yet im still getting CRC errors / Errored Seconds and my sync rate is 57% of what is possible (3072 of 5364) this appears to be widespread with the ADSL2+ rollout what we cant seem to pinpoint is wether it truly is congestion on the new equipment or a configuration / compatability issue at BT's end. either way a solution might be a way off atm, I have this raised with IDnet support at the moment but were waiting on BT

As for the attenuation its calculated from the ammount of signal that reaches the router if it truly has gone down this would indicate a long term fault on the line that was killing it earlier keep and eye on it and it may go up and down but to be honest I've never seen an attenuation drop below where it "should" be as it's not theoretically possible, unless the router is reporting it wrong ;-)

Also worth noting that I believe the chipset in the V5 is a conexant where the V4 is a broadcom the latter imo being a better chipset

[Rik]

I'm using routerstats already and the SNR is fairly stable, obviously a bit better through the night.

That's when it should be at its least stable.  I agree with James, something odd is happening, but with all the work BT are doing on infrastructure atm, it is possible that lines might improve.

[tpk]

Hi James,

Yes I'm on WBC, I was from the start as I signed up recently.

The first Netgear I bought from IDNEt was v4.  I've now been sent the v5.  I'd heard that the v4 was better but it seemed to be having problems with thinking it was connected but not letting me ping or browse anything.

I don't understand the attenuation improving so much with the v5 router.

Rik: I've looked through a lot of 2 Wire posts but could you point me in the right direction as to where to get one and if it matters what version?

When I say SNR was better in the night, I mean it just went lower.  It was still fairly stable.

Thanks.

[Rik]

Lower is not better in this situation, it indicates the line is picking up more noise. Do you have hard-wired extensions, and is the ring wire connected to terminal 3 of the NTE5 face plate (usually orange/white)?

2700s are only available on eBay, but can be picked up for £10-15 usually. Whereabouts in the country are you?

[James_D]

Lower is not better in this situation, it indicates the line is picking up more noise. Do you have hard-wired extensions, and is the ring wire connected to terminal 3 of the NTE5 face plate (usually orange/white)?

2700s are only available on eBay, but can be picked up for £10-15 usually. Whereabouts in the country are you?

beat me to it again ;-)

[Rik]

Sorry.

[Simon]

beat me to it again ;-)

Come back later, James, he's not here in the evenings.   

[Rik]

I heard that.

[Simon]

Pardon?

[Rik]

Uncle Mort, wasn't it?

[tpk]

Thanks Rik.  I might try a 2Wire at that price.

I've just noticed I wasn't in the test socket.  I usually am but since the BT engineer replaced the master socket I hadn't been.  I'm back in the test socket now but its still reporting a much better attenuation than I've ever seen at this house.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1519 kbps 1167 kbps
Line Attenuation 27.5 db 25.5 db
Noise Margin 6.90 db 7.0 db

I don't have any extensions that I'm aware of.  I'm in the test socket so it shouldnt matter?  The BT line comign into the house as 4 wires in it, black, green, white and orange.  The white and orange are connected.

[JohnH]

2700s are only available on eBay, but can be picked up for £10-15 usually.

Rik, is this just overpriced then?

http://www.digidave.co.uk/jshop/product.php?xProd=259&xSec=4

[Rik]

Very and, tbh, our experience of that retailer has been less than good.

[tpk]

Forgot to say Rik, I'm in York.

[Rik]

I could lend you a 2 Wire to try, if you want to PM me your address.

[Steve]

There's always a few on ebay,one for a tenner at present . Search for 2700 hgv.

[James_D]

Thanks Rik.  I might try a 2Wire at that price.

I've just noticed I wasn't in the test socket.  I usually am but since the BT engineer replaced the master socket I hadn't been.  I'm back in the test socket now but its still reporting a much better attenuation than I've ever seen at this house.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 1519 kbps 1167 kbps
Line Attenuation 27.5 db 25.5 db
Noise Margin 6.90 db 7.0 db

I don't have any extensions that I'm aware of.  I'm in the test socket so it shouldnt matter?  The BT line comign into the house as 4 wires in it, black, green, white and orange.  The white and orange are connected.

Indeed if your in the test socket it isolates all exterior wiring, the lines coming in are correct orange should be to pin 2 or B and white is pin 5 or A but as I say as your on ADSL2+ I wouldnt expect much of an increase for a while as things seem to be a bit fubar at the moment.

I will say though with an attenuation of 27.5 and a noise margin of about 7db and that sync rate it looks to me like something between your house and the exchange is wrong. to give you some idea I'm not in a great place my attenuation is 49DB (approx 3.6km from exchange) and I have a noise margin of 17 with a sync rate of 3072Kbps on monday give IDnet a ring and see if they have logged any loss of signal problems, you will have had a few switching into the test socket and its always advisable to keep these to a minimum as the exchange senses these disconnects as a problem if you do it too often.

[Rik]

My own stats are 63db attenuation, NM 9db, sync 4262.

[JohnH]

I am getting 50db attenuation, NM 6.8db, sync 4512 with a Netgear DG834PN using DG team firmware.
Think I could do better though....

[Rik]

Not a lot, I suspect. You're at the convergent end of the graphs, where speeds are similar for ADSL Max and 2+.