Low Throughput.

[Rik]

I suspect they are as frustrated as you. 

[rireed3]

coreservers,

So you no longer have a steady sync, clearly.  That problem is some distance from Hertfordshire and IDNet.

When you say "same connections", you mean the mechanical ones you can see.  You can't see if 'engineer' switched pairs in your cabinet, which leads to the other meaning of 'connections'.

When we speak of connections, we mean the sync you are able to obtain, meaning a simultaneous reading of sync speed (not speed-test throughput), SNR margin and errors, preferably with the time that sync has been up.  This is clearly no longer steady, and you have to start posting these values with some regularity, if we are to see what is happening.

Richard

[coreservers]

Stream Type
Actual Data Rate

Up Stream
888 (Kbps.)

Down Stream
4540 (Kbps.)


[Go Top]


Operation Data / Defect Indication:
Operation Data
Operation Data
Upstream
Downstream

Noise Margin
16 dB
13 dB

Attenuation
43 dB
--- dB

Notice nothing in downstream attenuation.

connection status is showing as "showtime"?

Had to hunt for the hidden page on the belkin G router
FYI anyone using one it's 192.168.2.1/adsl_status.stm

Noise looks fine. but my ip profile has gone from 7150 this morning to 3500 tonight.

[Rik]

Which means the line is unstable, Core. Your noise margin has been pushed up to 15db from the look of it, and I'd guess you have interleaving on. The next step is for you to go over your wiring after the test socket and make sure everything is fine, because if IDNet get BT out, it's going to cost you if they find something on your side of the demarcation point.

[coreservers]

so how can it change from stable under sky to unstable under idnet, is adsl2+ more "sensitive" to noise, or has something changed at the exchange?

[Rik]

ADSL2+ is definitely more sensitive to noise given the higher frequencies used, I see almost daily re-syncs, compared to going 30-40 days without issue on Max, plus the error count is higher. However, you're also on a different bit of kit at the exchange, but that shouldn't be causing instability.

[coreservers]

as I say I'm gonna upgrade all the cabling this weekend, we;ll see if that fixes things

[rireed3]

As Rik says,

the 'noise' is not fine.

That is the noise _margin_.  BT's automatic Dynamic Line Management (DLM) have stolen your bandwidth for two weeks.  the 13db down margin is the indication that your sync has been crippled by BT for instability.

This has resulted from a number of re-syncs.  Just a few in a matter of hours can do it.  This is why I mentioned that I hoped you weren't working on your router and wires 'hot'.

The next thing is that the noise margin is also not steady, having moved from the 12 or 15db 'target' set by DLM to 13db.  You must look at this frequently at first to see how it is changing.  Ultimately you may want to record it with the RouterStats tool.

Best not change the cabling until you track down the problem.  You do that by eliminating the cabling at the test socket.


Rik is also right that you must make the cleanest hookup possible, with a short ADSL cord and the filter straight into the test socket so you disconnect all the house extension wiring.  Turn off the router first, of course.

Another difference, as I said before, is that 'engineer' might have switched pairs on you.  If the test socket doesn't improve anything, that's almost certainly the case, as a different big interference outside the house would be too coincidental.,

Richard

[Rik]

Agreed, Richard, a pair swap may have happened. We need Core's wiring to be squeaky clean before BT get involved, so that he doesn't get a nasty bill.

[coreservers]

there are no extensions into the main socket, just the router, which has been in the test socket since the engineer asked me to last Friday.
I've carefully tracked my cat5 as well and it runs well away from any sub floor cabling. up against the front wall of the house.
Still at least I'm online. eh 

I'll contact support again tomorrow, felt I got a bit brushed off this morning, "we'll add you to the list" before I could really explain anything

[rireed3]

It's beginning to look like it's down to 'engineer'.

There are definitely people in support who know how to pursue it with BT/Openreach if that's the case.

Try to have a conversation  that explains

• before your migration you had a stable line but very bad throughput.  You haven't really got as far as throughput with IDNet, as you will describe as follows:
• at migration you had several very stupid errors at the exchange that kept you offline for a week
• after openreach faffing around the houses outside and putting you in the test socket where you stay, you have a very noisy unstable line that connects anywhere from 8M to 4.5M with margin between 15 and 3 and can't stay up.
• please help get Openreach to get back the line you had before, or fix whatever's still wrong in the exchange

If you feel brushed off again, come back on here and tell us what happened.  I think that before, your complaint about speed tests had them assume you were in with about 20 customers with current throughput problems.  Your problems are from a newly unstable sync after BT botched their end of your migration several times.  Don't forget -- your sync happens far away from any equipement IDNet controls.  Syncs are from BT's equipment over BT's wires.

Richard

[coreservers]

good advice richard.
I will do
checked again
and snr dropped again to 13

Noise Margin
13 dB
13 dB

Attenuation
43 dB
--- dB
   

[rireed3]

your router output is a bit confusing --

from the more complete listing previously, 'upstream' is listed first, so I think 'downstream' was 13db both times -- but then I noticed that the only attenuation value would seem to be 'upstream'   

You may have seen this, but here are some more belkin G links from the excellent kitz site:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/belkin_commands.htm

Maybe one of these will be clearer.

Richard

[coreservers]

That's where I got the command from.

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    Your DSL connection rate: 4536 kbps(DOWN-STREAM),  888 kbps(UP-STREAM)
    IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 2095 kbps

and yes it is showing --- as downstream attenuation

Seems standard for it to show upstream 1st.

Operation Data
Upstream
Downstream

Noise Margin
16 dB
13 dB

Attenuation
43 dB
--- dB

but I agree it seems to be the upstream snr that fluctuates

[Lance]

To me it looks like the router is confusing it's upstream and downstream!

[coreservers]

well support just say, it;s the bt adsl2+ problems, noise will change, nothing they can do. I'm not convinced. and am a little concerned after over a week of hassle that i'm now being fobbed off.
It's the learning period is the other reason.

[Rik]

To be fair, Core, I'm seeing far more variation with WBC than with Max, both in NM and sync speed, and the line is definitely less stable.

[rireed3]

To be fair, Core, I'm seeing far more variation with WBC than with Max, both in NM and sync speed, and the line is definitely less stable.

Less stable doesn't quite cover this, Rik.

His line can no longer hold sync at half the rate he had for years before BT engineers screwed up several times and kept him off line for a week.

I have to say that with that history, this is beginning to look like a fob-off to me.  For the first time I can remember, someone at IDNet is not listening.

Richard

[Rik]

I understand, Richard, and I share your concerns.

[coreservers]

im concerned that more people on here seem to be getting less helpful responses from support. are they swamped? and if so is there no CS model to follow?
But my broadband at the moment is frankly awful. has been awful since the supposed "simple migration process" and it seems both IDnet and BT, simply cant be bothered to do anything about it. I do hope they're not going the way of other UK BB suppliers.

I was talked over when I tried to make a point, as if they are fed up hearing from me. I'm less than happy today. 

[rireed3]

Core,

There is one other variable that you have control over regardless of IDNet or BT.

At the beginning of the rollout, a number of router/firmware combinations were found to be incompatible with WBC ADSL2+ at certain exchanges.

The Belkin N was found to be among those that worked on those exchanges, assuming recent firmware.  No mention was made of the Belkin G, as far as I know.

I ran afoul of this myself, as my exchange has the offending equipment, and I floundered about for a week trying various routers and firmwares.  I now have three very different routers that I know all work.

Edit: First, find and get the most recent firmware for your router.  If that doesn' help,
end Edit:

I suggest you get one of the other routers to try.  The ones I know of are:

• Netgear DG834G (G for wireless).  v4 hardware is more desirable, v5 hardware works and I have one.
• Thomson Speedtouch TG585v7.   I don't have this hardware but it comes with necessarily recent firmware that I discovered at length for the v6 hardware
• 2-wire 2700HGV - a bit of a hack, as they are superficially locked to BT in the UK.  There is a sub-forum to this one that deals with this specifically - very stable sync, very cheap from ebay, buy carefully for the firmware, plenty of help from Rik and others

Richard

[Simon_idnet]

Hi coresevers

I can assure you that we are not fed up with you. We can see that either the exchange line card or copper pair that you were served by developed a fault on or before your migration to us. BT have now moved you to a new line card and/or copper pair which has at least restored service to you. Now your speed is not what you are used to experiencing. However, your line is still in the Training Period and so has yet to settle down, so we need to wait for that to complete. In addition we suspect that your line is suffering from the profile/throughput mis-match problem that we have identified to BT. We have asked BT to look into your specific case for us nd we are currently awaiting their response on that. We'll let you know as soon as we hear of any progress.

Regards
Simon

[coreservers]

Thanks for the response Simon. just getting frustrated, after a nigtmare week

rireed, i'd love to get one of these other routers, the major obstacle is money. I.E. i have none 

I have to go with what I have,.

[rireed3]

I have to go with what I have,.

You still better put the latest firmware on the router.  Belkin have lots of models and firmwares.  Please say which of the following yours is, and I can help you find the latest firmware for it:

The 7230's have one wifi aerial
F5D7230uk4 Wireless G Router (Model 1)
F5D7230uk4 Wireless G Router (Model 2)
F5D7230uk4 Wireless G Router (Model 4)
F5D7230uk4 Wireless G Router (Model 6)
F5D7230uk4 Wireless G Router (Model 7)

The rest have two aerials
F5D7231uk4 Wireless G Plus Router (Model 1)
F5D7231uk4 Wireless G Plus Router (Model 2)

F5D9230uk4 Wireless G Plus MIMO Router (model 3)

The modem-help site has multiple firmwares for each model number, so you'll have to find the number and 'model 1,2,etc'.

Richard

[Rik]

I have to go with what I have,.

IDNet have been known to lend routers to eliminate problems, you might want to ask them. I'd normally offer you one of mine, but it's already 'out on a case' atm. When it comes back, if you haven't resolved your issues, I'll let you know.