BT BRAS Profile

[T_M_D]

Hello,

one of my friends has had BT Broadband Option One since early December and I realised that her internet connection is really quite slow.

I discovered her BT BRAS profile is only set at 1000Kbps with a maximum available speed of 200-1000Kbps. She is on the same exchange as me, which is non-LLU and the equivalent to my package with IDNet. I get a good consistent 4.5Mbps with my IDNet so I am thinking that BT has set her BRAS profile too low? I don't really understand enough about BRAS to know whether this is the case or whether the BRAS profile of 1000Kbps is a capped maximum amount that she is allowed under BT's Option 1? When doing speed tests at different times of the day, she is getting just under 1000Kbps download speed - 960Kbps. I would greatly appreciate knowing whether it is worth her contacting BT about raising her BRAS profile so she can get much better download speeds? I have just set her up with a lovely new HP laptop with Windows 7 so it would be nice to get her download speeds increased so she can maximise her enjoyment of it.

Tina.

[D-Dan]

BT Option 1 is up to 8 meg, so assuming otherwise identical conditions, she should get the same as you.

However, before contacting BT, rule out any internal wiring problems or noise (I once had a PC monitor that crippled my internet connection), AM radio tuned to white noise seems to be the favoured approach.

Steve

[T_M_D]

BT Option 1 is up to 8 meg, so assuming otherwise identical conditions, she should get the same as you.

However, before contacting BT, rule out any internal wiring problems or noise (I once had a PC monitor that crippled my internet connection), AM radio tuned to white noise seems to be the favoured approach.

Steve

That's exactly what I thought Steve, that Option 1 is up to 8MB, but though I don't really understand the BRAS profile, it seems to clearly state that she will not get more than 1000Kbps download speed whilst that profile is set to achieve no more than 1000Kbps and that it can go as low as 200Kbps, so I don't think noise is the issue here....? 

[Steve]

Tina

The BRAS profile is related to the downstream sync of the router/modem probably a home hub in your friends case,what you need is the results of a BT speedtest http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ and also the home hub connection stats which you can find details of here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#10

[D-Dan]

That's exactly what I thought Steve, that Option 1 is up to 8MB, but though I don't really understand the BRAS profile, it seems to clearly state that she will not get more than 1000Kbps download speed whilst that profile is set to achieve no more than 1000Kbps and that it can go as low as 200Kbps, so I don't think noise is the issue here....? 

As Steve (the other one) has said, bRAS is related to sync speed, and sync can be affected by local conditions (i.e. in the home) which is why I suggest some indoor diagnostics first. If BT come out and find an internal problem, they will charge through the nose for the privilege.

Steve

[T_M_D]

Tina

The BRAS profile is related to the downstream sync of the router/modem probably a home hub in your friends case,what you need is the results of a BT speedtest http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ and also the home hub connection stats which you can find details of here http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#10

Hi Steve, thanks for info on BRAS, though I am still not that clear about it. It did seem to state that it isn't possible for my friend to get beyond 1Mb download as it states this is the maximum available. I did a BT speedtest earlier today when I was there and the result was 960Kbps. I will check the web site, but I am assuming I will need to be on her system so I mght have to leave that until I am there again tomorrow.

[D-Dan]

See here for more info on bRAS:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm

Steve

[T_M_D]

See here for more info on bRAS:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm

Steve

Thanks Steve, I am currently trying to get my (tired) head around the info on the web site. The info I got from performing the speedtest today was:

923 Kbps achieved (not 960 that I previously stated). Max available speed is 200-1000Kbps. DSL connection rate is 1472Kbps and IP profile for the line is 1000Kbps. These are the full stats that the BT speedtester gave me for her line. All BT sockets have a ADSL filter attached. One of the sockets is right near to the TV and my friend has Sky.

I tried to do a BT test on my line earlier to check my BRAS profile, but it errored out.

[D-Dan]

OK, in a nutshell, the router will sync at what seems a stable speed. The bRAS profile will be determined by a sustained sync speed. The higher the sync, the higher the profile. The profile will limit download speed, which is in turn limited by sync speed.

So, to achieve a higher profile, a higher sync needs to be achieved. Since sync can affected by indoor wiring, noisy electrical equipment etc. the bRAS will be crippled as a side effect. The trick is to ensure that internal conditions are optimal first. Only then, when you are sure that nothing indoors is causing the problem, should you call BT out. Then the odds are that they will find factors outside of the home that are affecting the connection, and only then do they have an obligation to fix it without charge.

Steve

[Steve]

In addition to the above omitting potential issues such as internal noise and the overall quality of the phone line, the downstream sync is directly related to distance the phone line travels from the exchange i.e a high sync means your are near to the exchange and vice versa, to get a clue to this it would be nice to know the downstream attenuation from the router stats, a low attenuation i.e 15 means the distance to the exchange is very short and 60 would mean its a lot further away. It could well be that this line is working at its maximum speed due to the distance from the local exchange.

[T_M_D]

OK, in a nutshell, the router will sync at what seems a stable speed. The bRAS profile will be determined by a sustained sync speed. The higher the sync, the higher the profile. The profile will limit download speed, which is in turn limited by sync speed.

So, to achieve a higher profile, a higher sync needs to be achieved. Since sync can affected by indoor wiring, noisy electrical equipment etc. the bRAS will be crippled as a side effect. The trick is to ensure that internal conditions are optimal first. Only then, when you are sure that nothing indoors is causing the problem, should you call BT out. Then the odds are that they will find factors outside of the home that are affecting the connection, and only then do they have an obligation to fix it without charge.

Steve

Thanks for all this - I have no intention of calling out BT, but as my friend's connection with BT is pretty new, I thought maybe they had not set something right their end as I remember BT doing something with my BRAS once after an engineer came out when my speed dropped to 128k and once they had done this, it was 5Mb. I have just successfully done my BT test and look at the difference between mine and hers? I can't help feeling that BT has something not set right their end..

How do I post my screen shot/image?

[T_M_D]

In addition to the above omitting potential issues such as internal noise and the overall quality of the phone line, the downstream sync is directly related to distance the phone line travels from the exchange i.e a high sync means your are near to the exchange and vice versa, to get a clue to this it would be nice to know the downstream attenuation from the router stats, a low attenuation i.e 15 means the distance to the exchange is very short and 60 would mean its a lot further away. It could well be that this line is working at its maximum speed due to the distance from the local exchange.

She is pretty much the same distance as me on same exchange and my IP profile is 5000kbps hers is 1000. My connection can apparently achieve over 7mb.

[T_M_D]

OK, in a nutshell, the router will sync at what seems a stable speed. The bRAS profile will be determined by a sustained sync speed. The higher the sync, the higher the profile. The profile will limit download speed, which is in turn limited by sync speed.

So, to achieve a higher profile, a higher sync needs to be achieved. Since sync can affected by indoor wiring, noisy electrical equipment etc. the bRAS will be crippled as a side effect. The trick is to ensure that internal conditions are optimal first. Only then, when you are sure that nothing indoors is causing the problem, should you call BT out. Then the odds are that they will find factors outside of the home that are affecting the connection, and only then do they have an obligation to fix it without charge.

Steve

I get you - I think, my interpretation is: The router will settle on a speed (Sync) based on a kind of average determined over a period of time and the  bRAS profile will then be set according to what that average ends up being. So, the Sync speed determines the eventual profile and for some reason the sync speed is not as high as it should be given certain factors and hence the low IP profile and the profile is directly related to the download speed, in my friend's case, around 950k.

The sync speed is the all important thing and the rate at which the sync speed averages at can be influenced by noise on the line and other factors such as distance from exchange...?

Sorry to be a pain, but I do like to try and understand these things and I greatly and gratefully like to pick the brains of those who to them, these things are simple! Hopefully, with the help of you and others, these things will finally sink into my brain!

[D-Dan]

Close enough 

So step one: Rule out internal problems. As has been said, if you are on otherwise identical lines, it points to an internal issue. Have her disconnect all extensions, plug the router into the test socket. Walk around with the detuned radio looking for noise etc.

If you find an internal issue, cure it, and then, unfortunately, you have to play the waiting game (10 days for a re-train of the line).

Keep us posted.

Steve

[Lance]

I think you're there pretty much.

The profile is based on the current sync if the sync has reduced, or can take up to 5 days to catch up if the sync has increased. The profile is the absolutely limit of download. As for sync being affected by noise and distance you are spot on. Unfortunately, poor filters and other interference from within the home can have a much bigger impact than noise sources elsewhere along the line.

[T_M_D]

Close enough 

So step one: Rule out internal problems. As has been said, if you are on otherwise identical lines, it points to an internal issue. Have her disconnect all extensions, plug the router into the test socket. Walk around with the detuned radio looking for noise etc.

If you find an internal issue, cure it, and then, unfortunately, you have to play the waiting game (10 days for a re-train of the line).

Keep us posted.

Steve

Erm, walk around with 'a detuned radio'? I only know how to change from Smooth radio to Radio 2....

[T_M_D]

I think you're there pretty much.

The profile is based on the current sync if the sync has reduced, or can take up to 5 days to catch up if the sync has increased. The profile is the absolutely limit of download. As for sync being affected by noise and distance you are spot on. Unfortunately, poor filters and other interference from within the home can have a much bigger impact than noise sources elsewhere along the line.

I see, so methinks then that as she is as close to the exchange as I am - albeit in the opposite direction and my BT speed test stats are as follows (way superior to hers): Best Effort Test: Download speed 4468Kbps, 7150Kbps Max Acheiveable Speed, Acceptable range of speeds for my connection:- 600-7150Kbps, DSL connection rate: 5888Kbps (hers is only 1472Kbps), IP Profile for my line is: 5000Kbps (hers 1000). I deduce that a). I do not have any internal noise/wiring issues and b). she most definitely does have - or some other problem at least, not thought of/ascertained as yet....

This is what I know of her set up:

- There are 3-4 filters in sockets where phones are directly plugged into.

- She has an answering machine.

- The BT Home Hub is connected via BT socket RJ45 jack (about half a metre from desktop PC) to Lan connection on PC. There isn't an ADSL filter in this socket and assume that because no phone is plugged into it that it doesn't need one...?

- The desktop PC is connected to an all-in-one printer that sits directly underneath it.

- There is a fax (not used)/copy machine (copy part of it used - I think this is left plugged in...

I can't think of anything else at the moment, other than TV and Sky that could be affecting things in terms of producing static/noise...

[Steve]

Tina this bits puzzling me
-
The BT Home Hub is connected via BT socket RJ45 jack (about half a metre from desktop PC) to Lan connection on PC. There isn't an ADSL filter in this socket and assume that because no phone is plugged into it that it doesn't need one...?

My brains getting tired but how can the router be connected to the socket without a filter as the cable won't fit unless its a socket with  separate inputs for broadband and phone

[D-Dan]

I stand by disconnecting all extensions - sounds like the phone system may be overloaded. I'm frankly surprised her phone rings.

Steve

I should qualify that - the REN (Ringer Equivalence Number) on a domestic line is typically limited to 4 - which will usually mean no more that 3 extensions (and the main line). She may be over-loading it.

Steve

[T_M_D]

Tina this bits puzzling me
-
The BT Home Hub is connected via BT socket RJ45 jack (about half a metre from desktop PC) to Lan connection on PC. There isn't an ADSL filter in this socket and assume that because no phone is plugged into it that it doesn't need one...?

My brains getting tired but how can the router be connected to the socket without a filter as the cable won't fit unless its a socket with  separate inputs for broadband and phone

Sorry, I think I am getting confused with the RJ45 jack thingy. I used to know what it meant when I was an IT technician back in the days of sneaker net, token ring and MS Dos... but a decorator for 6 years (going back to IT) has clouded my brain so all I see now is Dulux...Dulux... Dulux

Sorry, I waffle - tiredness and red wine thing. I will try to clarify: The modem cable is plugged directly into the BT wall socket and then into the modem and then a LAN cable goes from the modem into the LAN socket on the desktop...

[T_M_D]

Sorry, I think I am getting confused with the RJ45 jack thingy. I used to know what it meant when I was an IT technician back in the days of sneaker net, token ring and MS Dos... but a decorator for 6 years (going back to IT) has clouded my brain so all I see now is Dulux...Dulux... Dulux

Sorry, I waffle - tiredness and red wine thing. I will try to clarify: The modem cable is plugged directly into the BT wall socket and then into the modem and then a LAN cable goes from the modem into the LAN socket on the desktop...

Ooer, sorry, sorry sorry, I am getting silly now aren't I - I think there must be a little plug in the phone socket for the modem cable with a telephone socket, but there isn't a phone plugged into it. There is definitely not an ADSL filter in that socket though.
I think that maybe I need to check all this when I am there tomorrow so I don't waste any more of anyone's time with such befuddled silliness. Soz. 

[T_M_D]

I stand by disconnecting all extensions - sounds like the phone system may be overloaded. I'm frankly surprised her phone rings.

Steve

I should qualify that - the REN (Ringer Equivalence Number) on a domestic line is typically limited to 4 - which will usually mean no more that 3 extensions (and the main line). She may be over-loading it.

Steve

Yes,

I think it is rather a confusing set up! I will try disconnecting all extensions. There is another thing, she is paranoid about leaving things on and I don't think the hub has been on since it was installed in December for more than a few hours at a time - she switches it off when she turns off the desktop - I guess this might be why it has synced so low with it not being left on for about 10 days or doesn't it matter that she switches it off? I understand it should be left on during that time...? I hadn't thought of this earlier...

[T_M_D]

In addition to the above omitting potential issues such as internal noise and the overall quality of the phone line, the downstream sync is directly related to distance the phone line travels from the exchange i.e a high sync means your are near to the exchange and vice versa, to get a clue to this it would be nice to know the downstream attenuation from the router stats, a low attenuation i.e 15 means the distance to the exchange is very short and 60 would mean its a lot further away. It could well be that this line is working at its maximum speed due to the distance from the local exchange.

My downstream attenuation is 44db so hers should be around the same as the exchange is located roughly the same distance away from us both.

[Simon_idnet]

My downstream attenuation is 44db so hers should be around the same as the exchange is located roughly the same distance away from us both.

Hi Tina

Not necessarily, it depends on the route that her phone line takes to get to the exchange. For example, my house is about 100 yards from the exchange, as the crow flies, and yet my line is 1.5 miles long - it literally goes round the bypass and then comes back into town.
Simon

[Tacitus]

Erm, walk around with 'a detuned radio'? I only know how to change from Smooth radio to Radio 2....

OK.  You need a small portable radio with AM bands - not a DAB portable.  Switch it to Medium Wave and set the tuning to around 60/63 kHz.  Now all you should hear is white noise - some radio hams used to call it 'shash' - but you'll know it when you hear it.  Key is to not be able to hear any radio station, but a steady background 'rushing' sound. 

Now try moving the radio near an energy saving light bulb and the noise will increase dramatically.  This is the noise you are looking for.  Now if you move the radio round the house, you will pick up where the noise is that potentially will be picked up by you phone line and broadband kit.  Follow the phone line and see whether there are any areas where there is a significant increase in noise, which the line might be picking up.

It's not an exact science and won't necessarily tell you where the noise is coming from, but it will let you know it's there.  You can then take such action as you are able. 

HTH