Should I switch to Sky LLU

[Odos]

As per the title but unusually the question is posed not because of price but on line quality. In order to make sense of the question I have to give some background so forgive me as it's a bit of a novel.

My line has never been very good, in the nine years since my exchange was ADSL enabled I've lost BB connection totally on five occasions. The first two times were bad underground joints. The third was a faulty line card in the exchange. The forth the line just died ( Voice and BB ) and they couldn't find out why so switched me to the other line pair and the fifth was when BT in their wisdom cross connected my line with someone else.

Earlier this year I started getting stupid amounts of uncorrected CRC errors, I started a thread on here about it. Then suddenly all was well, my SNR target reduced itself from 15db to 12db and hardly any errors. This lasted eleven days then the errors started again, my SNR target shot back up to 15db where it's stayed.

The routers report a variance of only 2db in SNR between day and night, this is on numerous routers from different manufacturers, and yet I get resyncs, not many maybe one or sometimes two a day, and at no particular time, it can be day or night. It usually occurs though after I've downloaded a big file of a few hundred meg. What I believe is causing the resyncs is the large amount of CRC errors in a very short period of time as these increase dramatically when the connection is actually being used for more than browsing or mail. As an example, in the time it took to download XP SP3 for someone I acquired another 39000 errors.

After extensive searching on the net, it seems from what I've read CRC errors that are not affected by weather or time of day are almost always a fault on the exchange line card. On a thread on another forum, someone who claims to be an Openreach engineer stated they don't investigate CRC problems unless the errors continuously exceed 100 in two minutes.

Now heres the dilemma, IF it is the line card and IF the errors have to be continuous regardless of if the connection is actually being used, then there is no point in raising a fault as nothing will be found or done about it.

However, if it is the line card causing the problem and I switch to Sky LLU, then I'd get switched onto Sky's equipment and the problem would be solved BUT I'm then tied into a 12 month contract. I would go for this if I was certain it would solve the problem but I'm not so I can't decide, hence I'm asking for opinions.

[Steve]

Sorry I don't know the answer, it's a gamble if it's your line there will be no change if it's the card you win not sure how you can decide. Have IDNet support an opinion on the issue

[DorsetBoy]

ADSL2+ works in the "upper band" and is more fussy about noise. The results from Max cannot be related directly to ADSL2+,a small fluctuation in SNR for a Max line can equate to large variations of SNR and subsequent problems. If you have resynchs it may be the line so moving may not be the answer.

Which exchange are you on,there may be other LLU providers that allow monthly contracts?

[Odos]

Have IDNet support an opinion on the issue

I've not contacted them about this one. Quite simply I didn't want to waste their time if there was nothing they could or more precisely there's nothing that they could get BT to do about it. I know they could raise the issue and raise hell ( they've done it before for me ) BUT if the thing about 100 errors every two minutes is true then BT would simply not be interested, except in possibly charging me for a visit where they don't do anything because the errors are in their acceptable range.

ADSL2+ works in the "upper band" and is more fussy about noise. The results from Max cannot be related directly to ADSL2+,a small fluctuation in SNR for a Max line can equate to large variations of SNR and subsequent problems. If you have resynchs it may be the line so moving may not be the answer.

Which exchange are you on,there may be other LLU providers that allow monthly contracts?

I'm on bog standard ADSL we don't get 2 or 2+ till next year at the earliest. The exchange has most of the LLU operators but when I was checking last night the shortest I could find was 6 months and that was BE BUT it would work out a lot more expensive as I'd have setup fees as well 

[DorsetBoy]

I've not contacted them about this one. Quite simply I didn't want to waste their time if there was nothing they could or more precisely there's nothing that they could get BT to do about it. I know they could raise the issue and raise hell ( they've done it before for me ) BUT if the thing about 100 errors every two minutes is true then BT would simply not be interested, except in possibly charging me for a visit where they don't do anything because the errors are in their acceptable range.


I'm on bog standard ADSL we don't get 2 or 2+ till next year at the earliest. The exchange has most of the LLU operators but when I was checking last night the shortest I could find was 6 months and that was BE BUT it would work out a lot more expensive as I'd have setup fees as well 

Sky LLU is ADSL2+ which is why you may end up with more problems.  Do you have Tiscali listed? If so that is Tiscali wholesale,not TT and there is a shared LLU package available.

[Odos]

Sky LLU is ADSL2+ which is why you may end up with more problems.

Agreed if it was the line which was the problem it would most likely be worse but as I mentioned in the opening post I think it may well be a faulty line card at the exchange as this has happened before, in which case switching to LLU would cure it BUT I don't know for certain hence the indecision.

Do you have Tiscali listed? If so that is Tiscali wholesale,not TT and there is a shared LLU package available.

Yes Tiscali is listed, a friend of mine who lives very close to the exchange had them for about six months then migrated away because the service was absolutely useless so I tended to discount them without looking 

[DorsetBoy]

Agreed if it was the line which was the problem it would most likely be worse but as I mentioned in the opening post I think it may well be a faulty line card at the exchange as this has happened before, in which case switching to LLU would cure it BUT I don't know for certain hence the indecision.



Yes Tiscali is listed, a friend of mine who lives very close to the exchange had them for about six months then migrated away because the service was absolutely useless so I tended to discount them without looking 

Tiscali LLU is a different thing altogether.

[Steve]

How about Be via AAISP they guarantee to fix your line but not sure what the aaisp with Be contract length is

[Odos]

How about Be via AAISP they guarantee to fix your line but not sure what the aaisp with Be contract length is

Trouble is they are way too expensive especially with the migration charge. I cross checked my usage with what they charge and it works out at nearly double what Idnet costs me 

If I knew for certain moving to LLU would fix the problem it would be different.

Thanks for your replies 

[dujas]

If 02/BE LLU is available at your exchange, then you could sign-up to one of their packages. If the move doesn't give improvements then use their "30-day happiness guarantee" to get out of the 12 month contract.

We are very happy with our broadband service, but we want you to be happy with it too. That's why, when you sign up to O2 Home Broadband, we'll give you 30 days to try it out. If you decide you don't like it let us know and we'll cancel your contract.We are very happy with our broadband service, but we want you to be happy with it too.

[Odos]

If 02/BE LLU is available at your exchange, then you could sign-up to one of their packages. If the move doesn't give improvements then use their "30-day happiness guarantee" to get out of the 12 month contract.

Interesting packages, work out just a little more expensive than Sky, afraid I can't go for any of them though as they stipulate DD as method of payment and a condition of connection. My other half totally refuses to use DD's if at all humanly possible ( it's a long story but she wouldn't allow it ) 

[Odos]

Just an update, my original question is now immaterial, after hours of reading small print on all the LLU providers that I can get, they ALL require monthly DD payment. So it's not really an option.

Something that happened yesterday though has got me wondering, some of you may remember the thread I started about recent excessive CRC errors and I think I now know whats causing them. A neighbours phone went dead at the weekend, engineer came out yesterday and was working in the junction box which is in the pavement right outside my house.

I got talking to him and according to what he was telling me we are due to have a second cabinet installed in the village. When I asked if he meant replaced he said no, it's a second one and when it's live your BB speed should increase by a factor of 3. I thought this a bit strange but couldn't ask further as he got a phone call then. Today I find out ( got stuck in a traffic jam with the road works ) that BT are digging up roads and laying new lines from my exchange to the villages it serves. I know my exchange is due to go ADSL2+ in March next year but I didn't think they laid new cables for that

So now I'm fairly sure my CRC errors are BT's doing but I'd really love to know exactly what BT are up to with the new cabling 

[Rik]

Fibre is one possibility, Tony, another is that they are going to physically route you to a different exchange.

[Odos]

Fibre is one possibility

I can dream Rik  I doubt it though as the exchange only serves 9000 residential and 400 commercial properties ( non of these in the outlying villages ) so I wouldn't think it made financial sense.

another is that they are going to physically route you to a different exchange.

Possible but again I doubt it as they are laying cable from the existing exchange radiating outwards to the villages. I suppose I'll just have to control my curiosity and wait to see what if anything happens 

[Rik]

Very odd, unless they are getting so many faults that a re-cabling makes economic sense.

[Glenn]

It does seem very strange that they would relay cables, then have to dig up the road again, to lay fibre at a future date. The sensible thing to do would be to lay fibre now and bring forward the date to upgrade the exchange.

Tony, have BT applied for any planning permissions at your council?

[Odos]

Very odd, unless they are getting so many faults that a re-cabling makes economic sense.

Now this most likely will be it, even though I find it very hard to believe BT would pay money out if they can continue to "Bodge"  

Tony, have BT applied for any planning permissions at your council?

Not that I'm aware of, I've not noticed anything in the local papers or anything.

Oh well time will tell, I'll just have to wait and see what it's all about  

[Rik]

Or ask...

[Odos]

Or ask...

Who could I ask Rik, a few people at work have said they were asking the workmen laying the cables what they were for and all they said was "Upgrading" 

Seems BT could teach the government a thing or two about keeping secrets 

[Rik]

Go down with a bacon sandwich, that usually works. Try and get a look at the end of the cable too...