still losing sync

[alcav]

Hi all,

well I have now completely re-vamped my connection,eg netgear router+wireless adapter,new filters,no long wires,and getting an excellent signal.

Sadly though as you will see below,I am still getting random loss of sync.As you will see these losses always occur between 2100 and 2300 each time.

Any ideas anyone,regards....Alan


BEFORE   FITTING  WIRELESS ADAPTOR
Sun, 2007-05-06    21:46:52 - Loss of synchronization :1
Mon, 2007-05-07  22:20:03 - Loss of    synchronization :1
Tue, 2007-05-08    22:37:06 - Loss of synchronization :1
Wed, 2007-05-09  22:08:24 - Loss of synchronization :1
AFTER ADAPTER FITTED
Fri, 2007-05-11     22:07:00 - Loss of synchronization :1
Sat, 2007-05-12    21:46:12 - Loss of synchronization :1
Sun, 2007-05-13   21:32:10 - Loss of synchronization :1
Tue, 2007-05-15   21:54:15 - Loss of synchronization :1

[Lance]

Hi Alan,

It would seem that you are still getting noise on the line.

There seems to be more noise about at night and this could explain why your closs of sync events happen in the evening (I get the same problem with my line). I can't remember, but have you run the program Routerstats? This programs monitors your connection, specifically the noise margins and sync rates. If you have not run it before, then I would recommend running it and then we will be able to be sure the re-syncs are due to high noise.

If it turns out that it is noise, there is two options:
First option (which is what I have done) is just to leave it. What has happened on my line is that when it has got to the evening and re-synced, because of the increased noise it syncs a little lower each time. This process goes on until it [sync] has dropped sufficiently to hold the connection.
Second option to to get your noise margin raised. By default it is 6db, but BT can increase it in 3db increments. This will reduce your sync a little, but in return you get the stability.

If you need any help setting up routerstats, feel free to ask. Usefully, it is designed for netgear routers!

[Rik]

Fri, 2007-05-11     22:07:00 - Loss of synchronization :1
Sat, 2007-05-12    21:46:12 - Loss of synchronization :1
Sun, 2007-05-13   21:32:10 - Loss of synchronization :1
Tue, 2007-05-15   21:54:15 - Loss of synchronization :1

Hi Alan

Lance has given you excellent advice. However, I noticed that all the LOS are reported as :1. Are you re-booting the router regularly?

[DorsetBoy]

Hi all,

well I have now completely re-vamped my connection,eg netgear router+wireless adapter,new filters,no long wires,and getting an excellent signal.

Sadly though as you will see below,I am still getting random loss of sync.As you will see these losses always occur between 2100 and 2300 each time.

Any ideas anyone,regards....Alan


BEFORE   FITTING  WIRELESS ADAPTOR
Sun, 2007-05-06    21:46:52 - Loss of synchronization :1
Mon, 2007-05-07  22:20:03 - Loss of    synchronization :1
Tue, 2007-05-08    22:37:06 - Loss of synchronization :1
Wed, 2007-05-09  22:08:24 - Loss of synchronization :1
AFTER ADAPTER FITTED
Fri, 2007-05-11     22:07:00 - Loss of synchronization :1
Sat, 2007-05-12    21:46:12 - Loss of synchronization :1
Sun, 2007-05-13   21:32:10 - Loss of synchronization :1
Tue, 2007-05-15   21:54:15 - Loss of synchronization :1

I would set up Router Stats and get the graphs set up,especially Downstream SNR,you can watch the trace and take snap shots.

Looking at those times they are too close together to be coincidence,there must be a local event causing that loss.

You are looking for something switching on/off either in your home or in the local area,something is happening to cause that noise.

As Rik says the losses are all listed as "1" they should be seen numerically 1,2,3,4, etc.
It is better to leave that router on if you can.

[alcav]

Hi guys,

many thanks for your help.I do in fact leave the router on,the reason the stats are showing :1 each time is that I have copied the loss of sync line from the router log and pasted it to notebook so that I can post it.
The only losses of sync are as you see,one each day between those hours.It is 100% all other times
I have given some thought to household items being switch that time of day but can't think of any specifics at the mo.I must admit though it does seem more logical for the fault to be on home ground .

I will follow all your suggestions and get back to you if I get stuck, thanks again,regards......Alan

[Rik]

Hi Alan

I'm still puzzled by the LOS :1 reports. LOS numbers increment unless you re-boot the router or power it down, so even with cut'n'paste, that number should be changing. Is there any chance that the power supply to the router is being disturbed/interrupted?

[alcav]

Hi Rik,

the only time I power the router down is last thing at night when going to bed,this is usually around 23:30 'ish.Should I not do this?..I am rather safety concious as  we live in a park home made of timber.

I have now d/loaded the router stats prog and am in the process of figuring it out

Regards.Alan

[Rik]

Hi Alan

Most people leave routers powered 24/7, the risk is very low. The only times I bother to disconnect are when away for a prolonged period, eg on holiday, or when there are thunderstorms around, in which case I disconnect from mains and phone socket.

It won't do any harm to shut down overnight, but if you leave the router on continuously, it may help stability, as the router will then tend to sync at a 'worst case' level, thus stopping the nightime dropouts. My guess would be that, if you power up in the mornings, you are getting a higher sync speed than your line can handle when noise levels increase at night.

If you have any questions on Routerstats, just yell. One thing I would suggest is to set the sampling rate to 30 seconds, click on the cog icon, then see screenshot below.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Inactive]

the only time I power the router down is last thing at night when going to bed,this is usually around 23:30 'ish.Should I not do this?..I am rather safety concious as  we live in a park home made of timber.


Regards.Alan

I can understand your concern Alan, but Router/Modems only run on low voltage, I have never heard of anyone ever having a problem leaving one switched on overnight, like Rik, I leave mine on 24/7 unless I am away from home for any length of time.

[alcav]

Hi Rik....


if you leave the router on continuously, it may help stability, as the router will then tend to sync at a 'worst case' level, thus stopping the nightime dropouts.


ok guys,all noted,I will leave it connected and see how we go.I have a  low level of understanding about routers I'm afraid,still,we are learning

Regards   Alan

[Rik]

We're here to help, Alan, we all started learning when broadband came along, the curve just got steeper with Max! 

[andrew_w]

Just had a thought re those loss of sync timings! You've not got 'Heatwise' economy electric central heating or water heating by any chance? The evening boost period usually turns off around those times and they vary a little so as to distribute the surge of power downs on the grid network. As I understand it, a signal is sent along the power lines to turn the appropriate electricity meter on and off.

[Rik]

Interesting insight, Andrew. Thanks.

[alcav]

Thanks Andrew,

I wish I could say yes to your question re-c/heating etc,but we control our heating manually this time of year (as and when we get cold) .

I have Routerstat up and running (I hope),it seems to be drawing the graphs ok anyway.I have it set to start at 18:00 ------23:00.

I must admit tho I ain't got a clue what I am looking for .I will post the results tomorrow and perhaps you will enlighten me.

Regards.....Alan   ps where is the spell checker?

[Rik]

I must admit tho I ain't got a clue what I am looking for .I will post the results tomorrow and perhaps you will enlighten me.

I attach one of my graphs below, Alan. You can see the noise spikes quite clearly.

ps where is the spell checker?

Use Firefox?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Lance]

Use Firefox?

Or google toolbar in IE?

[andrew_w]

Thanks Andrew,

I wish I could say yes to your question re-c/heating etc,but we control our heating manually this time of year (as and when we get cold) .

Or someone nearby? I think Heatwise is only available in the Powergen area so if you're not, rules that out Think of all that arcing as tens of thousands of kilowatts are switch off

Actually, last year the farmer on our land installed an electric fence under our phone line but although could clearly be heard on an AM radio some distance away, did not affect my ADSL!

[Rik]

Actually, last year the farmer on our land installed an electric fence under our phone line but although could clearly be heard on an AM radio some distance away, did not affect my ADSL!

Are they at right-angles perchance?

[andrew_w]

Both angles 

[Rik]

Ah well, that does that bit of theory in.

[alcav]

Hi again,

well guys it seems I was having disconnects I was unaware of ,that is if I am interpreting the attached graph correctly.

Does it usually mean a disconnect when the noise margin falls to zero as in the log?if so,what is the best course of action.

Regards.....Alan

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Rik]

Hi Alan

You seem to have a target noise margin of 12db, which would indicate that your line has been unstable and so the DLM software has increased the noise margin to try and combat that. Your sync speed will have dropped in response, and with it, your profile.

You clearly are getting significant noise on your line - a 12db swing is very high. It suggests that either there is a fault with your internal wiring (most likely cause) or with your line (less likely). A Netgear will usually hold sync to about -2db, sometimes -3db, so I don't think you will actually have had a re-sync, but the router log will tell you (you can view it from Routerstats).

I think you need to do all you can to eliminate the possibility of an internal wiring fault. If the problem persists, talk to IDNet. They can get an engineer out to you, but if the problem is found to be in your wiring, you will be charged, probably around £130-160.

[alcav]

Hi Rik
quote I think you need to do all you can to eliminate the possibility of an internal wiring fault.

well not good news eh?.Is this noise of an rf nature,where should I start looking for internal wiring probs?What is likely to cause such massive spikes?

The only physical connections are router psu:router adsl lead (1m)via filter with attached phone.

Just as a thought,would an adsl lead be better from a point of interference,or am I barking up the wrong tree?.

btw,despite the massive swings in attenuation figures,I did only have one disconnect last night.

TIA.......Regards   Alan

[Rik]

Hi Alan

The noise could be RF, or it could be random electrical noise, possibly mains-borne, possibly radiated - if you have any industrial sites nearby, for example.

Take a look at this guide. It walks you through the steps you can take to help yourself. Disconnecting the ring wire is often very productive.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Just as a thought,would an adsl lead be better from a point of interference,or am I barking up the wrong tree?". Could you elaborate please?

When the disconnection occurred, could you see the noise margin in Routerstats? What happened to your sync speed and noise margin when the router re-connected?

[alcav]

Hi Rik

we will have to stop meeting like this

Quote....I'm not sure what you mean by "Just as a thought,would an adsl lead be better from a point of interference,or am I barking up the wrong tree?". Could you elaborate please?

At the moment I am using  a Dongle cos the pc is 15m away from BT socket.Would a 15m adsl lead into the    pc ethernet input be any better interference wise?

regards  Alan