FTTC FAQs

Ardua · Nov 30, 2011, 18:52:06

With FTTC cabinets in place and a RFS date of 31 December, the time has come for me to draw up a short list of possible providers. Sadly, reading the 5 pages in this section of the forum has thrown up more questions than it has answered (and despite suggestions from others in the past nothing has appeared on the IDNet website).

1. IDNet FTTC is a 12 month minimum contract with a 'one-off' £96 connection fee. As an IDNet ADSL2+ customer with a minimum contract term of 12 months from 1March, would I be liable to any contract 'buy out' charges (remaining months and waived ADSL to ADSL2+ transfer charge) if I transferred to FTTC at the end of the year - with IDNet or AN Other?

2. FTTC package selection. What is IDNet's policy re package selection and future package upgrades? As an ADSL2+ customer, I am on a 40GB package. Price-wise, the comparable FTTC package is only 30GB. If, say, after a couple of months, I want to upgrade to 50GB would this result in another 12 month contract and/or an upgrade fee? What happens if a customer wants to drop to a smaller package?

3. Where does it say on the IDNet website that the 'notice term' is one month for FTTC after completion of the 12 month minimum term?

4. What is the 12 -month FTTC minimum contract position if FTTC 80 becomes available next year and I wish to take it up?

5. Other FTTC re-sellers have priced an Unlimited package into their offering. With increased FTTC take up is IDNet reviewing its FTTC package mix?

I am posting these questions here in the hope that the answers may help others considering FTTC with IDNet.

Rik · Nov 30, 2011, 18:58:08

Sadly, you really need to ask IDNet, and there's no guarantee they will see this post. As best I can, but not guaranteed to be correct:

1) IDNet ADSL contracts are 1 month, not 12, so no problem.

2) Usually there's no upgrade fee but can be a downgrade fee. Not sure if it will affect contract lengths, but I suspect not, the package is internal to IDNet, the 12 months comes from Openreach.

3) I really don't know.

4) I'm guessing it would be treated as an upgrade, but again I don't know.

5) IDNet constantly review their packages.

Ardua · Nov 30, 2011, 19:16:55

Quote from: Rik on Nov 30, 2011, 18:58:08
Sadly, you really need to ask IDNet, and there's no guarantee they will see this post. As best I can, but not guaranteed to be correct:

1) IDNet ADSL contracts are 1 month, not 12, so no problem.

2) Usually there's no upgrade fee but can be a downgrade fee. Not sure if it will affect contract lengths, but I suspect not, the package is internal to IDNet, the 12 months comes from Openreach.

3) I really don't know.

4) I'm guessing it would be treated as an upgrade, but again I don't know.

5) IDNet constantly review their packages.

Thanks Rik. I will speak to Support but I was trying (but obviously failing) to get some info into a public forum. Aquiss, AAISP, Zen and even BT provide more on site information to their potential customers.

Simon_idnet · Dec 01, 2011, 03:27:15

1. Even if you pay for your ADSL2+ service annually you are still on a rolling one month contract.

2. It is the FTTC service installed by Openreach which has an initial minimum term of 12 months - your package selection can be changed at will.

3. Once the initial 12 month term has been completed the service reverts to the standard rolling one month term.

4. See 2.

5. Please see our Business grade packages for unlimited bandwidth availability.

Rik · Dec 01, 2011, 08:46:02

Four out of five wasn't bad.

Ardua · Dec 01, 2011, 09:10:45

Quote from: Simon_idnet on Dec 01, 2011, 03:27:15
1. Even if you pay for your ADSL2+ service annually you are still on a rolling one month contract.

2. It is the FTTC service installed by Openreach which has an initial minimum term of 12 months - your package selection can be changed at will.

3. Once the initial 12 month term has been completed the service reverts to the standard rolling one month term.

4. See 2.

5. Please see our Business grade packages for unlimited bandwidth availability.

Thanks Simon: as usual, a very helpful response. Is IDNet reviewing its FTTC Home packages as many other independent ISPs seem to be doing at the moment?

.Griff. · Dec 01, 2011, 15:01:36

I wish Idnet would review their current usage limits on FTTC but I fear it's just not financially practical for them to do so.

BT Retail are being extremely aggressive in terms of pricing their FTTC offering and with no bandwidth limits to speak of their package looks awfully tempting to potential customers.

As a result I fear BTW resellers like Idnet can't afford to compete on price or bandwidth so have compete using other factors like support and shorter contract periods.

Simon_idnet · Dec 01, 2011, 15:22:46

We can't cross-subsidise from other companies with the group, unlike: BT, Sky, O2 etc

We just have to wait for the them to oversell their networks again (contention to rise), performance to drop and then their customers remember that when something looks too good to be true then it usually is...

Simon · Dec 01, 2011, 16:16:55

How true a saying, Simon.

mervl · Dec 01, 2011, 16:57:42

(in cheek, of course). It always seems to me a bit like eating: all animals over-indulge if they can but a good diet leaves you still a bit hungry and requires some planning. Yes I'm on a lesser daytime allowance that with my former ISP, so I've transferred use to the larger overnight allowance by downloading and storing stuff when I can (easier without contention and no imposed restriction on speeds), with the larger HDDs now available. When did humans loose the ability to adapt; it seems to me you'll get a pretty miserable life if you just expect everybody else to suit you. Compromise and setting out to make the most of what you've got are, for my halfpennyworth, the key to a happy life!

Rik · Dec 01, 2011, 16:58:35

Wise words.

Ardua · Dec 02, 2011, 11:31:59

By raising this topic all I was trying to do was fill in a few blanks. Putting the big players to one side, the upper cadre of independent ISPs (all of whom, if asked, would argue that their contention ratio, capacity and support are equal to that of IDNet) offer slightly different FTTC packages. Some offer a free router; one has placed evenings and weekends in the off-peak category; another has a higher bandwidth but no peak/off-peak breakdown, and one allows customers to carry over some of the unused bandwidth.

All I was suggesting is that IDNet's website information is not as good as some of its competitors when it comes to making package comparisons. The generous IDNet off-peak bandwidth figure may benefit many but it is off little use to me personally. That said, I rarely come close to my monthly limit; however, having just taken out a LoveFilm trial (to get us away from the endless round of Christmas TV repeats) I note that it gives me 4 hours of streaming. It would be nice to use this 'extra' without worrying about exceeding the limits of my broadband package. 'Horses for courses' comes to mind. My point is that with FTTC just around the corner (Western Power are here today installing the cabinet power supply), I am taking the opportunity to decide on my future 'horse' and 'course'. It may well be given Simon's response above that I just stick with the provider that I know.

Rik · Dec 02, 2011, 11:57:00

It's always going to be a very personal decision, I'm afraid.

Ardua · Dec 03, 2011, 09:29:06

Quote from: Rik on Dec 02, 2011, 11:57:00
It's always going to be a very personal decision, I'm afraid.

I agree entirely - I am just trying to make an objective rather than subjective decision. Two further questions if I may? Yarwell's (TBB) excellent spreadsheet on FTTC providers suggests that IDNet charges £1.02 for each extra GB downloaded once the monthly limit has been reached. IDNet's FAQs only cover ADSL Max and ADSL2+ at £1 per extra GB. I could phone IDNet for a definitive answer but I am sure that someone on this forum will know.

Secondly, I can find no mention on the IDNet website as to whether or not an install ordered by IDNet will, if required, include what BT calls a 'data extension kit'? My 'OH' will not tolerate 2 electrical boxes sitting in our hallway even for the 10 day training period.

For what it is worth, I think that I have narrowed down my short list of FTTC providers to 3: IDNet, BT and another independent ISP that is offering a business package with unlimited downloads after 8pm and at weekends.

Steve · Dec 03, 2011, 09:47:03

Re Excess Gb charges. There is a discrepancy between the amount stated in the FAQs and the packages advertised i.e. this is the web page for adsl2+ and it's the same for adslmax and FTTC i.e. £1.02 per extra Gb, my guess is the FAQ is out of date. (I'll check via email)

http://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/homestarter.jsp

http://www.idnet.net/support/faq.jsp

I believe the data extension kit is part of the standard BTW install (if required) and is therefore not ISP dependent.

Ardua · Dec 03, 2011, 12:16:48

Quote from: Steve on Dec 03, 2011, 09:47:03
Re Excess Gb charges. There is a discrepancy between the amount stated in the FAQs and the packages advertised i.e. this is the web page for adsl2+ and it's the same for adslmax and FTTC i.e. £1.02 per extra Gb, my guess is the FAQ is out of date. (I'll check via email)

http://www.idnet.net/solutions/home/broadband/homestarter.jsp

http://www.idnet.net/support/faq.jsp

I believe the data extension kit is part of the standard BTW install (if required) and is therefore not ISP dependent.

Steve - thank you. I am beginning to suffer from ISP website blindness. Some ISP websites are very easy to navigate - others are head ache inducing!

What I cannot understand is this. If the cost of an extra GB of bandwidth is the same for ADSL, ADSL2+ and FTTC, then why is there such a difference in ADSL and FTTC package costs? I note that as of today BT has dropped its 40/10 offer by £3 per month to £25. Their ADSL2+ and Infinity Unlimited packages are now the same price - that said, they now only offer free weekend and evening calls.

I just wonder what the independent ISPS are going to do to respond to BT's aggressive marketing?

Rik · Dec 03, 2011, 12:55:51

Tough it out and wait for BT to oversell itself and the congestion to begin?

mervl · Dec 03, 2011, 13:20:04

RE: I just wonder what the independent ISPS are going to do to respond to BT's aggressive marketing?

Have you considered it may not be the same market in the view of at least some customers? The same as not all people choose to shop in the 99p shops; and not all independent grocers have to price match Tescos to be successful. The point is, exactly, you don't have to play the Tesco and BT game, much as they'd like you to. Sorry to spoil the fun.

As with grocery and other maturing markets there is a mass market and specialist divide opening up, I think; and the mass market which is going to suit most people is currently BT, Plusnet and TT for fibre-based services now, and awaiting it Sky O2, and Orange. Other providers, like independent grocers will always be a spectrum. But not everybody the same, please!

Ardua · Dec 03, 2011, 14:13:36

Quote from: mervl on Dec 03, 2011, 13:20:04
RE: I just wonder what the independent ISPS are going to do to respond to BT's aggressive marketing?

Have you considered it may not be the same market in the view of at least some customers? The same as not all people choose to shop in the 99p shops; and not all independent grocers have to price match Tescos to be successful. The point is, exactly, you don't have to play the Tesco and BT game, much as they'd like you to. Sorry to spoil the fun.

As with grocery and other maturing markets there is a mass market and specialist divide opening up, I think; and the mass market which is going to suit most people is currently BT, Plusnet and TT for fibre-based services now, and awaiting it Sky O2, and Orange. Other providers, like independent grocers will always be a spectum. But not everybody the same, please!

Fair comment. One type of ISP clearly does not fit all. That said, some independent ISPs are responding by reviewing their FTTC packages. For my part, I would have no hesitation in staying with IDNet if they offered a 40GB FTTC package similar to the current ADSL2+ package that I am now on. Bearing in mind that, with most independent ISPs, customers are required to pay a £96 FTTC connection charge this, in addition to a 25% reduction in peak bandwidth, makes IDNet's FTTC offering a touch expensive for general use. Contracting to the next package (50GB) is, in my case, probably not worth it but more importantly, from a domestic harmony point of view, is an additional cost which is difficult to justify in today's straightened financial times. My grandson may well understand contention and congestion (his parents both have Computer Science degrees) but his Grandmother certainly doesn't!

Rik · Dec 03, 2011, 16:19:52

The size of an ISP will govern the packages they offer. Bandwidth is a bit like mustard, there have to be some people using less than they pay for to counter those using a lot in order to arrive at a figure which is profitable to the company and attractive to the user. IDNet does do some cross-subsidisation, but it has less room to manoeuvre than a larger ISP. That said, I've already stated that their packages are constantly under review.