Internet Down?

[karvala]

Anyone else experiencing problems at the moment?  Internet went down at around 10.07pm, and remains down now.  Seems a bit early for BT work (I'm in Lincoln in case that's relevant), and not aware of any other problems.  Rebooting the router made no difference, and because I'm on FTTC, it's not even possible to see in the router interface what the problems might be (since all it knows is that it's not receiving anything useful from the BT Box).

Cheers.

[Steve]

No BT faults showing on IDNet or elsewhere currently, is the OpenReach modem showing a sync?

[karvala]

Yes, that's the thing, it looks fine; all lights on.  I unplugged the DSL cable for a short while, replugged it and as expected got a flashing light for a few seconds while it was trying to resync, and then a solid light indicated that it did sync, so there doesn't seem to be a problem with that, which is why I'm thinking it must be some sort of authentication problem or PPP layer (if that exists on FTTC?), but all I can see in the modem is that it's not connected, and the change occurred spontaneously and remains regardless of a reboot.

It's possible that the router suddenly failed, but as it's showing all the status lights correctly (i.e. wireless connections on; something plugged in to the incoming ethernet but no incoming internet), and the wireless networks are operating okay, that seems relatively unlikely to me.

Interestingly, and I'm not sure if it usually behaves this way or not, my TBB monitor has effectively stopped at 10.07pm as well, i.e. it won't move the time axis on beyond that point, not even showing 100% dropped packets or just empty space.  All I see even an hour later is a graph that looks perfect, but which will only display up to 10.07pm.

[Steve]

Sounds like an authentication issue, hopefully your not on your own as that should be a BT issue . May be worth just powering the router off for a least 30 mins ( I would leave the modem alone if all lights are green)  you can of course try a direct PPPOE connection from your computer/laptop to rule out the router as the cause.

[karvala]

Sounds like an authentication issue, hopefully your not on your own as that should be a BT issue . May be worth just powering the router off for a least 30 mins ( I would leave the modem alone if all lights are green)  you can of course try a direct PPPOE connection from your computer/laptop to rule out the router as the cause.

Thanks Steve.  I'm not sure what you mean by running a direct PPPoE from the router to the laptop, and what it would demonstrate?  If you mean do that to demonstrate that the router can communicate with the laptop okay, then presumably I know that anyway from being able to access the router web interface, which is only possible when the network connection between the two is functioning properly.

I will probably try turning the router off for 30mins, and crossing my fingers.  These things always seem to happen at weekends!

[Lance]

Steve meant a direct connection from pc to modem (with the PC handling the pppoe side of things) therefore bypassing and ruling out the router as the issue.

[karvala]

Oh okay.  Which I do by simply plugging in the ethernet cable from the modem to the laptop?  What should I look for if I do that, i.e. how would I test that?

Many thanks for all the help so far.

[Steve]

http://www.idnetters.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,1904.msg621335.html#msg621335

[karvala]

Fantastic, that's very helpful.  I've done that, and I get a "Connection failed with error 651".  I guess that rules out the router as the problem.  Could that be an authentication problem, or does it indicate a problem with the modem, or is it not possible to tell from that?  I'm not familiar with that particular error.

[Steve]

I think it confirms that your router is ok, the dsl light on the modem is green so that's not the issue. So I think there's  an issue after the cabinet and the usual is the inability to authenticate a PPPOE session . Hopefully it's BT messing about 

If it's not resolved tomorrow you need to involve support.

[karvala]

Brilliant, thanks for all your help Steve.  I'll sleep on it and hopefully by the morning BT will have stopped messing around and things will be functional again.

[karvala]

Hmm, still down this morning, exactly the symptoms.  Guess a call to support will be going in.

One thing puzzles me and makes me one wonder about the router.  The authentication must presumably be done at the level of the router (rather than in the modem before it gets to the router), as the username and password details are entered there, but router log shows no attempt to connect, negotiate or any authentication failure whatsoever.  It also (unlike my old ADSL router, which was also a Netgear) does not attempt to assign any external IP address from its own range in place of the genuine external one.  It just sits there with 0.0.0.0, and if I specifically tell it to connect, it thinks and then still sits there, and there's no evidence that it's tried to do anything.  Is that normal for FTTC?

[Steve]

If you've followed the above link to perform a direct PPPOE connection correctly and failed I wouldn't go looking further. Support may respond to a lack of Internet connection today drop them an email.

My router doesn't generate a local IP address on failure to connect it can be accessed via it's local gateway address.

[karvala]

Yeah, I was just concerned that the 651 error can be caused by a dodgy driver on Windows 7 apparently, although I have tested a different driver and tested it on two different machines (both of which give the same error), so probably it is the modem/connection rather than anything at my end.

I have dropped an e-mail to support (contactus@idnet.com; is this the right address these days?).  I also tried to get through to them on the phone, but just got some (rather bad!) music.  They used to at least have the ability to leave a phone message at weekends and would sometimes respond to those if they were urgent; has this now disappeared as well?  There's not even a message saying that the office is closed, or that they're busy, or anything.

[Glenn]

I've always used support at idnet.com in the past, but it looks like contactus is the current one from the webpage.

[Simon]

support @ idnet.com is what I always use.  There's now an out of hours service operating at the weekends, so rather than leave a message, you should eventually get through to a real person, but they'll probably take you through all the usual 'no connection' drill.

Would a hard reset of the router do any good?   

[karvala]

Could try a hard reset of the router I guess, though it might be superseded by the following.

I called support, who are apparently inundated with calls (it took about 30mins to get through, which raises the question in my mind of why I'm paying IDNet prices if I'm getting a BT level of service, but I guess I'll think about that).  They ran some line tests which they were going to call back about but didn't.    After getting hold of them again, they said they have raised a ticket with BT because there is a problem with the SNR margins, so there's either a problem with the line or a problem on the exchange.  My guess is the latter; I can't see why a line would suddenly develop unacceptable noise at 10.15pm on a Saturday night, and it doesn't seem to be affecting  the voice frequencies as far as I can tell.  The person who ran the test didn't bother to record the actual numbers, so I've asked them to run it again and tell me, and I'll post the numbers here if/when I get them.

All seems a bit strange, though; the line was rock solid before (as you can see from my sig speedtest), and I can see the cabinet from here so there is no great distance involved.  Anyway, looks like I'll have to wait at least 24hrs before even getting a proper update on this, which creates significant problems in regard to work. 

Any/all comments welcome.

[Steve]

I think your stuck sadly until OpenReach get back to work on Monday for those of us without enhanced care.

[karvala]

Yes, unfortunately I think you're right.  I wouldn't mind so much if I thought it was likely to be fixed tomorrow (i.e. with less than 48 hours downtime), but previous experience with Openreach tells me I should probably be looking for to get a mobile dongle in preparation for days or even weeks of procrastination and failed attempts to fix it.

Two last updates for today.  First is that, to categorically rule out my equipment, I borrowed another router and sure enough it shows exactly the same symptoms, so I can certainly say it's nothing to do with my router.  The failed line test pretty much ruled that out as well, though I'm still a bit confused as to how it manages to get and hold sync without any problem if there's a major SNR problem.

Second is that, once again, support failed to keep their promise to call me back, so I still have no SNR stats.  So after (i) taking more than 30mins to answer my first call; (ii) promising to call me back with the results of the first line test and failing to do so; (iii) failing to record the stats of the first line test; and (iv) failing to call me back again with the results of the second line test, I can say that they're now ready for a career with BT.  I will be making a formal complaint about them tomorrow as a special reward for their outstanding service.

[pctech]

Yep once took them a week to fix a borked line card which failed while they were upgrading me to ADSL Max

[karvala]

Still down this morning, which is no great surprise.  Support have finally gotten back to me, having a run another line test and "BT showed a possible fault on their equipment."  Well done, Sherlock; I think that would fall into the category of what Basil Fawlty called "the bleedin' obvious".

No ETA on a fix, of course.  Instead, Openreach are apparently given a free 48 hour pass during which IDNet support won't so much as pick up the phone to them and ask them how they're doing.  It's no wonder Openreach are so slow given the absurd level of deference they're shown by ISPs.  Someone needs to give these people a lesson in how to get things done in the real world.

[Glenn]

The weekend and evening support as far as I know are a 3rd party company, so your call may have been the first time IDNet had seen the issue (assuming you called before they read any mails etc from the support company).

[karvala]

The weekend and evening support as far as I know are a 3rd party company, so your call may have been the first time IDNet had seen the issue (assuming you called before they read any mails etc from the support company).

That would be a reasonable supposition, but in fact IDNet had read my e-mail sent over the weekend; it was their reply to that which I received this morning that I was responding to.

I'm not going to blame IDNet for the failings of the third-party support, although of course they do choose who that provider is and should be accountable in some sense.  What I object to is ISPs, now including IDNet (and it didn't used to be the case) meekly sitting in the corner for 48hrs doing nothing while waiting for their lords and masters at Openreach to get back to them.  If I want someone to do something in a sensible timeframe, I hassle them until it's done, because years of experience tell me that unfortunately that's the only way 99% of people will do it.  This wait-for-48hrs until they respond nonsense is nothing more than a prolonged teabreak for Openreach, and I'm saddened to see ISPs inadvertently complicit in it, instead of hassling Openreach into actually getting off their backside and doing something.

While I'm ranting, I will add that they also be pointing out to Openreach that if their engineers are going into exchanges and breaking things at weekends, then this "we're not back at work until Monday, so the clock starts then" argument is patently nonsense.  If we have the downside of them working at weekends, which they clearly are, then we should have the upside too.  ISPs need to realise that if customers are not allowed to talk to Openreach directly themselves, then they must pass on their customers views and concerns and reflect their customers' attitudes; basically, they need to figure out whose side they're on, i.e. who's paying the bills.

[pctech]

IDNet are as much a customer of BT as you are of IDNet so they unfortunately have to dance to Openreach's tune.

[karvala]

IDNet are as much a customer of BT as you are of IDNet so they unfortunately have to dance to Openreach's tune.

That doesn't make sense.  IDNet are indeed customers of BT, and I am indeed a customer of IDNet.  Just as I therefore expect IDNet to dance to my tune, since I'm paying the piper, it would follow that Openreach should be dancing to IDNet's for a similar reason, not the other way around.  That is exactly the problem: ISPs have been fooled by Openreach into somehow thinking that Openreach are doing them a favour when in fact Openreach can only exist and operate due to the income they receive from ISPs.  ISPs need to assert themselves over Openreach, for their own sake and on behalf of their customers.