iDNET to Migrate Entire UK Phone Network to All-IP with BT

[Simon]

Thanks Biil.  I think I'll suggest they just stick to the normal ethernet connection, and hopefully the phones will work through the Powerline extender.

[zappaDPJ]

I'm still not really up to speed with this but I assume this isn't the BT Cloud? The reason for asking is someone I know found out the hard way you can only use pre-configured IP devices bought from BT.

[Simon]

I don't know which cloud it is.  It's not IDNet or BT Internet.  The ISP sent them the router and the phones, all of which were supposed to be pre-configured.  They have spent the day trying to get the Powerlines paired, without success, then it became apparent that both need to be plugged into a wall socket, not an extension. 

With regards the phones, they wouldn't work either connected the Powerline or directly to the router.  Apparently the equipment is PoE so they have been told that the phones should simply connect to the router and work.

They spent an hour on the phone to the ISP, but no one can work out what's going on, and why the phones don't work, but the ISP has confirmed that the phones aren't connected to the network.   

They now have to decide whether the fault lies with the router, the phones, Openreach, or the user.   Meanwhile, their landlines have been disconnected so they are having to use mobiles for communication.  I've stepped back from my advisory capacity (), as I haven't any further idea than anyone else.

[zappaDPJ]

So one failure and approximately 25 million to go. This is not going to end well is it

[Simon]

It's starting to become apparent why BT put the brakes on.   

[Simon]

I don't know which cloud it is.  It's not IDNet or BT Internet.  The ISP sent them the router and the phones, all of which were supposed to be pre-configured.  They have spent the day trying to get the Powerlines paired, without success, then it became apparent that both need to be plugged into a wall socket, not an extension. 

With regards the phones, they wouldn't work either connected the Powerline or directly to the router.  Apparently the equipment is PoE so they have been told that the phones should simply connect to the router and work.

They spent an hour on the phone to the ISP, but no one can work out what's going on, and why the phones don't work, but the ISP has confirmed that the phones aren't connected to the network.   

They now have to decide whether the fault lies with the router, the phones, Openreach, or the user.   Meanwhile, their landlines have been disconnected so they are having to use mobiles for communication.  I've stepped back from my advisory capacity (), as I haven't any further idea than anyone else.

Just to update this, it turned out that the Powerlines weren't working as the room where the phones are located is on a different electrical circuit to the room where the router is.  Also, the phones do need power supplies, but the provider didn't send them. 

Long story short, they've had an electrician run a power line from the junction box to the room where the phones are, on the same circuit as the room where the router is, and they now have power adapters for the phones, so everything is up and running.

The next 'problem' is, it seems that although they have two lines with separate numbers, when one phone rings, so does the other, and it doesn't seem to matter which handset they pick up.  So, both phone numbers seem to be connected to both phones, which seems a little bizarre, but I guess it works.  When one phone is engaged, the other one still rings, so it's a weird setup.

[stan]

It's been a few months since anyone added to this topic and it would be a shame if it were to be lost in the mists of time ... and in that time Openreach came to our area (in Bovey Tracey, Devon) to install cables in the pavement ready for "Full Fibre" or FTTP. They said we would be notified about availability in August/September and indeed we were. And yesterday my neighbour had his property connected via fibre  - right into his house via a very neatly installed box known as a CSP (Customer Service Point). All very neat and took a couple of hours. Haven't yet quizzed him about it and don't know who his ISP is or whether he has kept his old phone(s).

It has revived my interest and I looked again at IDNet's website and can see that the Centrex offer seems to be the only FTTP one that we, as domestic customers, can have, and it's still quite pricey, and am I right in thinking that it's subject to a two year contract?  Is it just me who thinks the list of available offers isn't all that clear and straightforward? I still don't know if I would be able to take FTTP now and keep my old phone(s) ... which I would prefer.

Again I ask, does anyone from IDNet read these pages and take any notice?  Perhaps they do? - and if so I'd be very happy to see a bit more detail and updated info.

[Simon]

I've edited your post, Stan.  The reason for the lines crossing out the last two paragraphs was that you used a square bracket '[' instead of '(', which constituted the 'strikethrough' BBcode.  I've changed the brackets. 

[stan]

Very many thanks, Simon.

Another little lesson learned.   

[Simon]

In answer to your question, as far as I am aware, BT have put the replacement of standard copper landlines on hold.  Not sure for how long, but from what I can gather, the issue is no longer imminent. 

[nowster]

I still don't know if I would be able to take FTTP now and keep my old phone(s) ... which I would prefer.

You can indeed have FTTP and keep your old phone line. That's what my parents have done. You do have to pay for both, but the "12 months for the price of 11" deal still applies if you are happy to pay up front.

[zappaDPJ]

We recently moved into a property with no obvious copper into the building although ironically every room bar the bathrooms have one or more phone points. IDNet were able to determine we have FTTP and after a little searching I found the associated hardware.

To cut to the chase we've now had over two months without a landline and found it to be far more beneficial than expected. No more unwanted calls, no more checking for messages every time we've been out and the vulnerable mother-in-law we were most worried about quickly learned that she could contact my other half on her mobile any time day or night. On top of that we are saving money and incoming calls go to the appropriate person's mobile.

I'm sure it's not going to work for some people but in our case ditching the landline has been a success.

[stan]

Food for thought ... ta.

[nowster]

One thing to remember is that telephone exchanges tend to have bigger batteries than mobile phone masts.

[nowster]

PS. PoE, being a telecoms-derived standard uses similar voltages to telephony: about 50V DC at the power supply end.

You're likely to see 48V DC nominal on an off-hook telephone line, with ringing current being superimposed on that at about 80-100V RMS AC (usually 16Hz).

The current spec for this is Suppliers' Information Note (SIN) 351.

The spec for FTTP is SIN 506.

Others you might be interested in: https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/help/suppliers-information-notes-(sins)

[zappaDPJ]

One thing to remember is that telephone exchanges tend to have bigger batteries than mobile phone masts.

If I'm still around in 10 years I'd like to think all mobile providers will have at the very least satellite backup for emergency calls. As things stand at the moment I do agree the mobile network is nowhere near as robust as it needs to be but hopefully that will change.

[zappaDPJ]

Others you might be interested in: https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/help/suppliers-information-notes-(sins)

I'm getting a 404 error on that link.

[nowster]

I'm getting a 404 error on that link.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/cpportal/help/suppliers-information-notes-(sins)

[Tacitus]

It has revived my interest and I looked again at IDNet's website and can see that the Centrex offer seems to be the only FTTP one that we, as domestic customers, can have, and it's still quite pricey, and am I right in thinking that it's subject to a two year contract? 

Yes it's a two year contract.  They supply Yealink kit, either DECT or a desktop phone, or so far as I know, you can have an ATA and retain your current kit, although if you do this you lose much of the benefit of VoIP.

I'm also told they don't support softphones such as Acrobits Softphone/GroundWire.  Whether they've since relented and offer something of their own I don't know.  Acrobits do offer a white label version of Groundwire so I guess it may be possible.

My real beef is that they only support Yealink kit.  On the Yealink website they specifically say of their DECT devices: 

Yealink DECT technology is based on CAT- iq2.0, ....... But we are not compatible with any third-party DECT devices (base station, handset, etc.).

I have perfectly viable Gigaset kit which will do both analogue and VoIP, so I would be forced to buy new handsets to go with the iDNet supplied DECT base station.  Whilst I can understand they don't want a pile of support issues, I think it's a retrograde step for them to support only Yealink.  May be fine for their business customers but I think it may put a lot of domestic users off since Gigaset is quite popular in the domestic sphere.

I've also noticed that Gigaset are now supplying DECT handsets compatible with the DECT system in the Fritzbox routers.  Maybe only in the EU at present but I imagine it will gradually happen here.

[nowster]

For myself, I'd be wanting bare VoIP as I run my own Asterisk server.

[stan]

I'm grateful for the above replies and am absorbing the information. I can't claim to be totally familiar with all the technical aspects referred to but am getting the gist of it.

I can imagine that a new VOIP DECT phone would perform a number of advanced operations but, speaking only for myself, I only want to make and receive basic telephone calls  and currently have hard wired and (old type)cordless extensions round the house which enable me to hear the phone ringing in the garage and upstairs etc. The only fancy facility that I use is Caller ID ... and that's it!
I'm guessing that to replace four "old" phones with four new VOIP DECT phones isn't gonna be cheap plus I don't really want the hassle of setting them up and spending a good while learning how to use them (remember I'm not a spotty 15 year old  )

If I was really honest I could manage without a landline phone and just use the mobile but I'm a bit traditional in some respects and am a bit reluctant to lose the familiar and it seems I'm not asking for the impossible but it also seems that IDNet aren't currently offering an easy to grasp explanation of how to achieve that.

Continued thanks for the info. currently being passed on.

[robinc]

With the BT 'conversion' process on hold I'm in something of a dilemma now.

We've not needed to make any calls on our landline for several months - mobile is OK here. However the doomsters are predicting power supply issues this winter (like last winter and the ones before that.....) though the main issue is storms and power lines. Last winter we lost mobile for a couple of days due to power lines but we did have landline for most of the time. Local power was back up after a day but that may have been luck.

I had planned on dropping the landline in November - £130 can be used elsewhere. Now I'm thinking maybe I should hang on - I have this habit of getting rid of something I've not used for years and then needing it about a week later.   

[Tacitus]

If I'm still around in 10 years I'd like to think all mobile providers will have at the very least satellite backup for emergency calls.

I see the new iPhone 14 has provison for that.  Only in the US at present, but I imagine they will role it out worldwide over the next few years.  No doubt there will be a price to pay. 

[Tacitus]

One other point regarding Yealink v Gigaset.  I can't find anywhere there is an easy solution to transferring an iPhone or Mac address book to a Yealink phone.  I suspect you need to convert it to CSV or tab del and then have the faff of mapping the fields to the Yealink system.  I'm guessing that Yealink assume you have a network address book and make it easy to link to that.

Gigaset offer their 'QuickSync" untility for Mac and Windows, which makes it easy to transfer.  Either use Bluetooth or plug a handset to the desktop with USB and transfer the address book across.  Simple and another plus for Gigaset.

https://www.gigaset.com/hq_en/cms/service/downloads.html#category=442&product=658

[stan]

PLEASE read this reply in good faith and as a well intentioned comment in reply to Taciturn's post no#223 immediately above........ when I say the stuff spoken about goes above my head and is the reason I say I'm not rushing to get a VOIP DECT phone with the attendant need to 'configure' it and grasp the facilities it (undoubtedly) offers. 

Alternatively, please someone tell me I'm overstating the case and you just get them out the box, plug it in and it works straight away?