FTTP New Installation Process

[Bill]

Or you can go to Airplane mode then re-enable WiFi (and Bluetooth if necessary).  It's a handy tip I picked up on another Internet Forum if you are in an area with no mobile signal and are connecting through WiFi.

That's not a situation I've ever been in (yet!), but it's a tip worth remembering, thanks

[dudwell]

Quick update. The buffering and stalling problem with YouTube on laptop has mysteriously vanished without me doing anything. Hoping it stays that way 

[Simon]

I had an automated voicemail message from Openreach today, followed by a corresponding email from IDNet, confirming my installation date as 15th March.  I just thought I'd better check...

So I emailed IDNet and they said they'd also been checking and that "Openreach have contacted us to advise that the appointment on the order is not correct as they are still waiting for the permission to work form to be returned."  This is because they need to dig up land which is owned by the estate and isn't part of my freehold. 

So, still nothing can go ahead until this work is done, so why OR sent out the install confirmation date is anyone's guess.

[stan]

You're definitely having a mare with this.

[Simon]

I've basically forgotten about it and it will happen when it happens.  The only annoyance is that all the time it's delayed, I'm paying the increased costs for my current FTTC service from IDNet. 

[peasblossom]

Please do let us know when it does finally get installed. It'll be interesting (though it's clearly been tedious/irritating for you) to know when that will actually happen.

[stan]

I had an email from Idnet the other day reminding me to sort the fibre out before everyone wants it done in a rush ... and they also advised my present deal is going up.  Not sure I understood it correctly ... it seemed to say my ADSL is going up by a pound I think - and the rental is going up by one pound fifty pence I think. Have I got that right ... a total increase on both counts totalling £2. 50 plus VAT making three pounds ?

I,m currently building up the courage to fill in the online form to transfer to Andrews and Arnold and to port my landline to them and go VOIP for £1.40 a month or thereabouts. Been with Idnet for many years but I think I fancy a change.

[Simon]

I'm not blaming IDNet for any of this.  I'm not sure if they could have pushed OR any harder, but Heather has kept me informed throughout. 

I think my main issue is that it's taken OR three visits to decide they need to dig up the lawn, which should really have been apparent after the first visit when they initially found the blocked ducts.  The different engineers on the last two visits have merely confirmed what the first lot said, but it's taken an extra two months to get to the point where they've applied for permission to do the work. 

Let us know what you decide and how it goes, Stan.  I'm not even touching my phone service at this time. 

[Simon]

So, quick update - it seemed Openreach were having trouble getting hold of my property management company to get permission to dig up the lawn, which is managed by the estate. 

I thought I'd make some enquiries and see if the property management company had actually heard from Openreach, and having explained the situation and outlined the work that needs doing, the property management company have emailed me back with permission to have the work done, providing that the contractors put things back the way they were when the work is completed. 

I've passed this information onto IDNet, who will forward it to Openreach, and unless Openreach require anything further, such as a particular form needing to be completed, hopefully we will be able to proceed before too much longer. 

All in all, this took about an hour this afternoon, so I don't know why it's taken OR three weeks of faffing around to get nowhere.

[Simon]

I've had a notification from DPD to say that a package from IDNet is on the way.  Presumably this will be the router, although I'm not quite sure why it's been sent at this point, given we don't even have a date for OR to do the outside work yet.

[armadillo]

Here is an update on the process as it has so far unfolded for me. I have read all of Simon's saga with great interest.

The Openreach engineer arrived today to get as much as possible done of the FTTP installation. He also called a 2nd engineer to come over to help, which was a good move.

The main engineer was here for about four hours.

He fitted the external junction box to the front of the house, where the previous copper junction box for FTTC was positioned. That new box encloses the present copper connection also.

He then came inside and fitted the ONT (internal fibre termination box) in my office at the back of the house. He drilled through the cavity wall (saying he hoped a brick would not blow!) He routed a thin(ish) black fibre cable from the ONT taking it outside round the rear of the house, over the flat roof of my garage and round to the external junction box at the front. That was about 20m of the black cable. He said they can route up to 50m outside. That is the route I wanted and he was very cooperative in doing it exactly as I wanted.

Then came the attempt to connect the external junction box from the front of my house to the fibre network in the street. The present copper cable runs through a duct under my garden to the public tarmac footpath in the street, about 6 metres. There he encountered a blockage. As a matter of interest (at least to me), he tracked exactly where my copper cable is routed underground by using a clever detector device that makes a noise when it gets an electromagnetic signal from the copper cable. The signal was fed into the cable by disconnecting it from my network and connecting his special generator to it. I think he called the setup a "cap and genny" - might have been "cat and genny".

There is a fibre box (big covered manhole) about 20m along the footpath. He put rods from there along toward my house and found a blockage after about 10m.

It seems that the copper connection through my 6m duct goes to the copper FTTC cable in the footpath underground with no openable access and simply tarmac covered. So he has put in an order for "Civils" to come and dig up the footpath for the 10m or so between the two blockages and put a duct in that trench (and hopefully a nice little cover at my end so they can maintain if necessary, without digging up all over again).

He said that Civils will put fibre through my garden duct from the footpath end and coil it up outside my house. The Openreach telecom guys will then have to return to connect that new fibre cable to the external junction box. He thinks that should take 2 to 4 weeks.

Since the fibre cable between the external junction box and the internal ONT is connected and the ONT is now connected to power (from my UPS), the telecom guys will be able to test that the network connection is successful (when they have completed it), without needing to have my router connected. Well, so he says but I am not very convinced. I will believe it works when it works!

Meanwhile, my FTTC is working fine as the copper is still connected.

I will update when something happens.

[stan]

Thanks for the detailed progress report.  Would obviously hope it gets done in reasonable time.

I'm such a wuss I keep putting off filling in the form to get the ball rolling with Andrews and Arnold and their FTTP and VOIP contract.

[Simon]

Thanks for the update, armadillo.

Your installation seems to have got a lot further than mine, as the guys who came out to me gave up as soon as they found the blockage without installing anything, and that's still the situation now, so I remain totally at square one. 

When I was talking to one of the guys about the drilling, he also said it's possible a brick could 'blow'.  That actually sounds quite alarming!  So, what happens in that event?  Is the brick repairable or will they have to start rebuilding my outside wall?!   

I would also like them to install the external box where the current FTTC / Phone cable comes in to the property, as it would then be in an external cupboard, offering some protection from the weather, etc, but the last guys that came were talking about installing it on the front of the property underneath the window where the drilling will go, so as to avoid long running cables.

I think I'm going to have to get IDNet to chase them again because they haven't come back to me in a couple of weeks now, and the last I heard was that they were coming to dig up the grass so as to install a new duct.

[zappaDPJ]

When I was talking to one of the guys about the drilling, he also said it's possible a brick could 'blow'.  That actually sounds quite alarming!  So, what happens in that event?  Is the brick repairable or will they have to start rebuilding my outside wall?!   

It just means there's a possibility of leaving a crater around the exit hole which is why it's best to drill from the outside in. It's easy enough to repair on the inside and all but impossible on the outside. If he knows what he's doing he won't use the hammer setting on the way in or the way out, just through the middle. That minimises the risk by quite some margin.

[stan]

They drilled from the inside over the road at my neighbours. it spalled out a treat. He complained and they offered him £250 to get it repaired.  He accepted and bought a slate sign and screwed it over the misplaced and badly drilled hole and associated damage.  He would never have got an invisible repair. The bricks aren't available an the pointing wouldn't have matched.

And, don't forget, they drilleed through his central heatring water pipe and had to get civils to dig up the pavemen due to a blockage  too. Not a lot of profit in that job.

[Simon]

It just means there's a possibility of leaving a crater around the exit hole which is why it's best to drill from the outside in. It's easy enough to repair on the inside and all but impossible on the outside. If he knows what he's doing he won't use the hammer setting on the way in or the way out, just through the middle. That minimises the risk by quite some margin.

I've been reading up a bit about this, and I've seen comments that suggest holding some sort of thick board over the potential exit hole on the internal plasterboard, when drilling from the outside in, can minimise damage to internal plaster?

Of course, I suppose the best method would be to drill from both sides and meet in the middle, but I guess that would require some sort of x-ray vision on the part of the OR engineer.

I did purchase a Bosch device which is meant to detect plumbing and electrical wiring inside wall cavities - but then I also read that the OR guys carry these.  One concern is that the external wall they will be drilling through has a radiator on the inside of it, and I've no idea where the pipework is situated.

[zappaDPJ]

I've been reading up a bit about this, and I've seen comments that suggest holding some sort of thick board over the potential exit hole on the internal plasterboard, when drilling from the outside in, can minimise damage to internal plaster?

Of course, I suppose the best method would be to drill from both sides and meet in the middle, but I guess that would require some sort of x-ray vision on the part of the OR engineer.

If the internal wall is plasterboard there really shouldn't be an issue. That said it would be easy enough to drill a small pilot hole from the outside and then finish it off from the inside with the bigger gauge drill bit.

I've drilled multiple holes of all sizes through brick walls and never had an issue. It really comes down to knowing when to hammer or more importantly, when not to.

[Simon]

Hopefully they'll know what they're doing. 

[zappaDPJ]

From what I've seen it's Sky 'engineers' who cause the most damage. They always seem to drill inside out.

[armadillo]

I would also like them to install the external box where the current FTTC / Phone cable comes in to the property, as it would then be in an external cupboard, offering some protection from the weather, etc, but the last guys that came were talking about installing it on the front of the property underneath the window where the drilling will go, so as to avoid long running cables.

My feeling is that I would rather have a long fibre cable routed round the outside of the property than a long ethernet cable routed inside. Certainly, that is why I had Openreach go over the garage roof and round. They said it is ok to route up to 50m of fibre outside. Anyway, fibre is not lossy and not subject to interference as far as I am aware. The only drawback with the outside routing is vandalism if some idiot decides it would be fun to cut it. Fortunately, I live in a very safe area.

[Simon]

My feeling is that I would rather have a long fibre cable routed round the outside of the property than a long ethernet cable routed inside. Certainly, that is why I had Openreach go over the garage roof and round. They said it is ok to route up to 50m of fibre outside. Anyway, fibre is not lossy and not subject to interference as far as I am aware. The only drawback with the outside routing is vandalism if some idiot decides it would be fun to cut it. Fortunately, I live in a very safe area.

Yeah, I live in a pretty safe area too, but there's idiots everywhere. It's just the weather, really,  but I guess these boxes are built to withstand the elements. 

I've been thinking it's perhaps not essential to have the internal box in the exact location where my current router is, as I already have a Mesh WiFi system set up, so really the router could go anywhere within reason. 

My only issue is that my main desktop PC is not WiFi, but I believe I can connect one of the Mesh units to the PC via ethernet,.so that would solve that problem. 

[Simon]

Somebody tell me if this is mad, please, but I've just got all these thoughts running through my head (probably overthinking it).

So, I live in what posh people call a coach house flat, which normal people call a flat over garages.  It's single story and semi-detached.  As I've previously mentioned, I've got this lockable cupboard below, which houses the existing phone connection, TV aerial (on a communal system), electric and gas meters, and provides a bit of storage space.  If I had the external box fitted in there, what if I also had the internal box fitted in there as well, and then used my existing powerline Mesh system to get WiFi up into the flat?  Would that work?  Would I lose significant speed on the broadband by doing this?  It would certainly save a lot of cabling, and they wouldn't need to drill through a wall. 

[zappaDPJ]

The internal box needs to be power and I assume it would be the same for the mesh? I don't know enough about mesh systems to comment but personally I would always want at least one device on a cable.

[peasblossom]

Yes, I'd imagine having the option to plug a device in would/could be really useful.

Have to say, it's real shame someone hasn't set up an explainer website where all this is gone into in nerdy (but helpful) detail.

[Simon]

There is a power point in the cupboard.  The wired connection would be from the router to the Mesh 'base' station, which would be in the same cupboard.  This would then, technically, feed the other Mesh devices upstairs via the power lines.  This is what I have at the moment:

https://amzn.eu/d/9LSFUDI

I'd have to get an add-on 'station', as I've only got two at the moment and one of them would need to be downstairs with the router, but that shouldn't be an issue. 

The only thing is, if it didn't work well, what would it cost to have them come back and reinstall it by drilling holes?