Getting Constant Drops

[emzino]

Hi. I've recently migrated over from Zen to IDNet and my line was activated on 20th September. All was well until recently where I seem to be constantly dropping out and the only cure seems to be restarting the router (Speedtouch 585(i) v6).

Is this likely to be something temporary or is the problem much deeper?

Thanks in advance.

[Rik]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

When you say dropping out, is the router losing sync (usually results in a flashing ADSL light), or are you losing the connection with the 'net but not the exchange?

Can you post your line stats, if you're not sure how to get them, take a look here.

Has anything changed with your phone wiring, eg new devices attached, new extension etc? How do you connect to the phone line, at the master socket, or via an extension (if the latter, then hard-wired or a flying lead?). Do you have an NTE5 master socket, the type where the bottom part of the faceplate can be removed? If so, can you try connecting at the test socket revealed?

Sorry, so many questions when you want answers.

[Gary]

I had issues when I first joined IDNet but they were router based, it seemed as if the router didn't like changing to a new ISP, it would stay in sync  but Loose the  DNS servers so I could not browse at all, I reinstalled the routers firmware (this is a netgear router) and then reset it, then ran the wizard to automatically find my ISP, since doing that all has been fine and I am speeding along, So as Rik said lots of tests but worth it, and check your routers DNS status if its a similar issue to the one I had, and not the intermittent loss of sync with flashing ADSL light RIk mentioned.

[emzino]

Well the Internet light indicator goes red when the connection is lost. I'll check the line stats and get back to you, I'm new to all this stuff/lingo so I'm sorry if I sound a little dumb about it.

As for the setup I've got, I haven't changed anything. It's all the same it goes like this:

PC > (CAT6 Gold Plated) > Speedtouch 565(i) v6 > (No Extension) > Filter/Telephone socket

For some reason or another, we don't have a "master socket". A socket where if you unscrew the face plate, there's another hidden socket inside. Seems like we have the very old ones and BT want an ridiculous amount of money to change them...

Maybe a new router would sovle it? But I heard Speedtouches are the best against line noise etc

[emzino]

These are my line stats:

Link Information
   

Uptime: 0 days, 0:12:36

Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4,256

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1.23 / 4.21

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 18.5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 43.0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20.0 / 6.0

Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / 

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): 0

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 8 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 3,952 / 22,446

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 66 / 33

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 46 / 25

[Gary]

Your line stats are similar to mine, how long does the red light go off for before you get the net back

[Rik]

Don't worry, a lot of people don't have NTE5s, they're just a useful diagnostic if you do have one as it eliminates all your internal wiring at a stroke.

If the light is flashing, that suggests a loss of sync. Normally, that would be caused by electrical noise - either in your house or, especially if you have an overhead phone line, in the BT cables. Try walking around with a de-tuned AM receiver, and see if you pick up any noise. ADSL works in the same frequency range as AM, so if you can hear noise on the radio, your phone line can hear it too. If the problem seems to be worse in the evenings, it's almost certainly a noise issue as radio waves propagate further after dark and there is more electrical noise around in the forum of heating, TVs and other appliances, street lights etc.

Try unplugging everything except your router, and see if that helps. Also, try swapping filters, they do fail occasionally. If you have a Sky box connected to the phone, disconnect that in particular, they are often a cause of problems. (You may have to re-connect for contractual reasons...)

Your stats look OK except for the error count, which is quite high for a 12 minute uptime (if I read that right). Those errors would suggest a noise problem.

Do remember not to disconnect or re-boot too frequently. More than 10 an hour will signal an unstable line to the monitoring software.

[Gary]

One thing you can check also is how many wires are connected in your bt socket, see the FAQ as there is pictorial help for that, removing the wire from terminal 3 the "ring wire" can give you less noise on the line as well.

[Gary]

emzino how many times today have you had to unplug your router would you say trying to cure this?

[emzino]

So far i've probably had to restart the Router about 6-7 times. Here's the line stats when cut off:

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:12:23
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4,256
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/MB]: 971.00 / 4.19
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 43.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20.0 / 5.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / 
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 160 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 278 / 67,624
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 7,918
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1,032

We've only got 2 sockets in the house. One, dedicated to the Router and the other (in our living room) with ONLY the telephone connected. We haven't got Sky or anything. Maybe I do have to call BT and get these telephone sockets replaced, they do seem a little old but i'll tell you this, when I was with Pipex (first ADSL ISP), I NEVER had these problems. It was only when I moved over to MaxDSL (Zen)...

Heres line stats now that i've connected again:


Link Information
   
Uptime: 0 days, 0:03:42
Modulation: G.992.1 Annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 4,160
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [KB/KB]: 130.00 / 94.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 18.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 25.0 / 43.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 20.0 / 6.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / 
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 14 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 5,884
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 95
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 31

[Gary]

Are you running off the main socket or the extension as that will bring more noise to your line as well?

[Rik]

Max is a much more sensitive animal than vanilla ADSL was. If you've had these problems since moving to Max, it's not ISP related but down to your internal wiring, the BT wiring back to the exchange or exchange equipment (the latter is the least likely).

Have a look at the wiring optimisation sticky in the FAQs at the top of this board. Try and eliminate any possible causes of noise within your own wiring, then ask support to test your line with a view to getting an engineer out. Be aware, though, that if a fault is found after the master socket, you may incur a bill of £160+.

One thing that might work for you is to have your target noise margin increased to 9db from the default 6db. This will give you some extra stability, at the cost of a little speed.

[Gary]

don't unplug the router anymore either emzino, it wont help, your line is loosing sync it appears because of noise as Rik said, and if you are running off an old extension that may not help issues either.

[Gary]

Another thing emzino is do you have noise on your telephone line? having BT come out only to charge you is expensive for ADSL if its your wiring, but if your line is bad and the second socket was put in by BT then they maybe able to change sockets anyway as a matter of updating your wiring if you report a voice fault.

[Rik]

To check, Emzino, dial 17070 and choose the quiet line test, usually option 2.

[emzino]

Many many thanks. I'm going to read the stickys and do the line check. If it comes down to it, i'll report a fault with the line and make sure they come out to replace it (making sure I don't mention Internet as I know they'll just send me back to IDNet).

I don't have any extensions at all as I know it'd increase line noise, it's running straight off main socket. I can't help but restart it, I need the net =/ but i'm going to leave it for abit then do a reset, hopefully by doing that and setting up the Router again will give it a fresh start.

As for any noise on the telephone line, yea we do have abit of noise. Haven't noticed any for a while but i'm pretty sure we still got it.

Anyway many many thanks again, do appreciate it and when I do the line check as well as call BT tomorrow, i'll update you on the situation.

=)

[Rik]

BT won't routinely come out to the voice line unless they can detect a fault. If you do report it as a voice fault, make sure you don't mention ADSL, or they will refer you to your ISP.

Have you tried not re-booting the router, but unplugging it from the line, then re-connecting it? If that doesn't work, but re-booting does, it might indicate a faulty router. Does the Speedtouch log disconnections? That might give you more of a clue as to what is happening, but my gut instinct is that you have an inherently noisy line.

[colirv]

There have been a number of threads on thinkbroadband about the timeout problem from which some 585s suffer. It might be worth doing a search there to see if these match your trouble. I hope not, as IIRC no one seems to have found a solution to this.

[Rik]

Thanks for that, Colin.

[Gary]

I just did a swift search and it seems a pretty universal probelm for that router across many countries, it may be worth contacting support to see if they can help with providing a different router maybe lending you one to see if that helps your issue emzino.