Mystery - the main PC on my Home Net makes the ADSL line drop when it starts up!

[Rik]

There would be some satisfaction though if a recall of all suspect units could be enforced!

That was my thinking.

P.S. Hey 5 days that's Monday!  I missed that first time round!
Here I am looking for remission for good behaviour not extra time to serve!

I suspect that, because the software has 'seen' so much instability, it will wait a bit longer to reset the profile. OTOH, you could get lucky today.

[LesD]

Ah what a relief out of Tisacli mode again!

BT let me out of jail tonight and I have now got my best ever IP Profile:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  3904 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3201 kbps

So with the loan of one router from a guy at work on Friday and another one today from my brother as it turns out my own, despite my pessimism, is OK after all. 

Now I have just got to tidy things up a bit...... 

It appears that I had a re-connect round 7 PM this evening while I was out. This must have been after about 60 hours at 4256 kbps and maybe round the time my IP Profile went up again. I guess if I don't get the sync back up over 4000 kbps my IP Profile will settle back to 3000 kbps and limit my throughput to about 2800 kbps. No big deal in reality as anything over 2000 kbps give me a satisfactory surfing experience.
     
System Up Time 62:37:36
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 6850 12330 0 79 1477 02:39:13
LAN 10M/100M 74927 60910 0 238 60 62:37:32

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3904 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 40 db 13 db
Noise Margin 5 db 20 db

No thoughts on how to pick a low EMI/RFI PSU?

[Rik]

I've always found the Tagan brand very low noise, Les. Scan stock them.

[LesD]

Hi Rik,

Thanks for the pointer to Tagan. I have done some Googling for them and they do look the business! 

[Rik]

I can't recommend them highly enough, Les, they simply do the job with no downside - bit like IDNet really.

[Sebby]

Ah what a relief out of Tisacli mode again!

BT let me out of jail tonight and I have now got my best ever IP Profile:

Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  3904 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3201 kbps

So with the loan of one router from a guy at work on Friday and another one today from my brother as it turns out my own, despite my pessimism, is OK after all. 

It must feel great to have stability and the correct profile. Hopefully now you can enjoy IDNet.



Edit: smiley markup sorted

[LesD]

:congratulations:

It must feel great to have stability and the correct profile. Hopefully now you can enjoy IDNet.

Hi Sebby,

It certainly does! 
My thanks to your good self and Rik for sticking with me through my trials and tribulations.

[Rik]

We like trials, Les - just wait till you hear the sentences we hand out.

[Lance]

Glad BT have let you out at last, Les!

[Sebby]

Hi Sebby,

It certainly does! 
My thanks to your good self and Rik for sticking with me through my trials and tribulations.

Pleasure. That's what we're here for.

[LesD]

Guys,
You're great.

I managed to get my Netgear Router back on its wall mounting this evening to kick-start the tidy up process again and so far so good:

thinkbroadband - 24/02/08 19:38  3246.36 Kbps 378.23 Kbps  Netgear DG834

System Up Time 02:10:43
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4064 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 40 db 13 db
Noise Margin 6 db 21 db

I reckon this is looking about as good as I am going to get. 
(I am still using my existing telephone extension wiring).
Keeping the connection speed above 4000 kbps is the challenge but I am chipping away at it. When I had 4256 kbps I saw the Noise Margin round 0 db and 1 db at about 10 PM one evening so this number is still quite variable and I am looking into mains RFI filters very seriously.

I have made up my mind to buy a new PSU, a Tagan one would you know! 
The best specification I have found for it is here:

http://www.fgsservices.co.uk/INU_Products/INU_ProdDetailsL1.ASP?ref=N4402054

but the best price I could find was on Amazon so I have ordered one from them this evening.

Now if any one fancies an acoustically quiet but electrically noisy 650W PSU keep an eye on eBay I might get round to offering it for sale to the unsuspecting just like MicroDirect do! 

[Sebby]

It really does look like the culprit was that PSU. I'm really glad that we've managed to help you get to the bottom of it and you've now got a pretty stable connection. Enjoy.

[Rik]

You'll not regret the Tagan, Les.   

[LesD]

You'll not regret the Tagan, Les.   

Well Rik what to say?
The Tagan arrived today and what a piece of engineering it is - beautiful! 

I could even see the RFI filter behind the power socket through the rear grill with a bit of a snoop.
Screened mains lead complete with a ferrite bead, screened internal leads and a man sized earth/ground wire and ring terminal. Whisper quiet.... I could go on and on but you know all this already.

Many  for the pointer to Tagan. Have a couple of Karma's from me  

Oh yes the PC does boot up without dropping out the ADSL line too!

[Sebby]

Result. 

[Rik]

That's great, Les, it's always a relief when someone approves of a recommendation.

[LesD]

Hi Folks,

On Thursday evening my wife was out for an hour or two so I bit the bullet and run in my length of CAT5 cable with its 4 twisted pairs, of which of course, only one is necessary for the ADSL. That evening I managed the run from the location of the router up to and under the bathroom floor to the point immediately above the Master Socket in my hall. First thing Friday morning (7 AM) I ordered a filtered master faceplate from ADSL Nation and hey it arrived this morning (Saturday) so this afternoon I pulled the CAT5 cable down through the "egg-box" wall in my hall to the master socket and pulled another independent length back up the other way for the telephone extensions to replace, at least that length that was not originally twisted pairs. With the cables run in I fitted the new faceplate and remade the telephone extension connections under the bathroom floor.

Hey presto it is all working again and my first connection speed was 4676 kbps but as the evening wore on the noise margin worsened. (This is looking ever more certain to be outside the limits of my control) As a result the connection dropped and re-connected at 3872 kbps with noise margins holding their own currently at 6 db and its after 9 PM now. 

System Up Time 03:23:09
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 12953 21770 0 116 2004 03:22:42
LAN 10M/100M 25144 16942 0 2189 187 03:23:05

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3872 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 39 db 13 db
Noise Margin 6 db 27 db
 
I have managed a couple of db's improvement in the Line Attenuation down from 41 db to 39 db most likely due to the elimination of joints in terminal block and the separate ADSL filter plugs and sockets. I did a BT speed test about half an hour ago with this result:

Test at 8:29 PM  15/3/8
     
Test1 comprises of Best Effort Test:  -provides background information.
    IP profile for your line is - 3500 kbps
    DSL connection rate: 448 kbps(UP-STREAM)  3872 kbps(DOWN-STREAM)
    Actual IP throughput achieved during the test was - 3152 kbps 

So I am not doing too badly especially at this time on a Saturday evening.

Having the requirement to re-connect all my bell wires with the ADSL filtering now being at the Master Socket and faced with the varying colour schemes that my telephone extension wiring still has I made the decision that the wires I had removed from terminals 3 & 4 in earlier experiments were both going back with them both on 3 and this does seem to be OK. Terminal 4 is stated to be unused so my assumption was that it was floating and this does appear to be the case. So far I have only done the extension sockets that are still in use. With these modern DEC phones I have three that are still live but are no-longer used.

From my earlier experiments I was not expecting massive improvements but I knew I had seen the lower line attenuation when I was doing them so I have that as a permanent feature now. What I would like is to be able to maintain an IP profile of 3500 kbps but it is proving a challenge!

For the record the ADSL Nation faceplate did come with both self-tapping and the machine screws I happened to need at no extra cost. (£13.50 all in including p&p, which beats the Clarity price hands down) 

[Philip]

looking good Les 

[David]

  Hi Les,Im an ex Tiscali man too,the waters good here nice and warm,instead of forever out in the cold at tiscali.dont fret they will sort things out,or put it this way I cant but I know dozens which can,and will.

[Sebby]

Everything's looking good, Les.

[Rik]

Hi Les

Looking at your stats, I just wonder whether the final step for you should be to get a 2-Wire 2700 router. If my experience is anything to go by, you'd probably end up with a nice, stable, 4000 profile, maybe 4500.

[Sebby]

You have a point, Rik. We've certainly seen several cases where 2Wires (or just anything that doesn't have an AR7 chipset) improves things a little bit more (or, in some cases, a lot more!).

[LesD]

Looking at your stats, I just wonder whether the final step for you should be to get a 2-Wire 2700 router.

I was ahead of you having read what you have said on other threads and have just missed out on one on eBay this evening but more are coming up. Do you know anything about the AT&T ones an American seller offers that he claims are BT compatible. One thing that isn't is the pin arrangement on the power supply.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-AT-T-2Wire-2700-2700hg-G-Wireless-DSL-Router-Modem_W0QQitemZ380006555053QQihZ025QQcategoryZ3702QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122

Despite the activity I have engaged in since Thursday evening, the results have not been spectacular. I watched a connection speed from mid-afternoon of 4640 kbps with noise margins between 8 and 10 db deteriorate to 0 db and drop the line as darkness fell. The re-connection is currently at 3712 kbps with a noise margin of 10 db but a growing history of previous experience tells me that this margin will drop again as the evening wears on. Ah I have just seen an 8 db followed by a 6 db and back to 7 db but the trend is definitely downwards. It must be those pesky street lights that I read about! 

P.S. when you get sick of my train just say and I will remove it,

[Rik]

I'd be wary, Les, he doesn't specifically say it's UK compatible that I could see, and doesn't list a UK ISP either.

It does sound like you are suffering from classic 'darkness' noise. I know the feeling, I'm at 7db from my target 9db right now.

The train is fine, btw.

[LesD]

I'd be wary, Les, he doesn't specifically say it's UK compatible that I could see, and doesn't list a UK ISP either.

Hi Rik,

Thanks for the pointer but about half way down the auction page he says this:

Works with the following ISP and most of the DSL ISP

and BT is in the list but are BT a provider over the pond? I simply don't know. As there appear to be any number coming up on eBay I think I shall bide my time. It's not that I am unhappy with what I have got. If for a moment I was a quick reflection on recent Tiscali times would soon fix that. It is that technical quest that if there is something in my scope to do to improve things then I want to do it. More RFI filtering is on the to do list but I cannot do all the street lights between me and the exchange!